Lawnmower Fuel Deliver Issues - Drive Accord Honda Forums
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post #1 of 27 Old 05-15-2017, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Lawnmower Fuel Deliver Issues

I have a 6HP Toro lawnmower whose engine was built by Briggs & Stratton. I've had fuel delivery issues before, but those were all related to the carburetor where replacing it (I broke off a part so I couldn't rebuild it) fixed that issue. I'm not sure if it's related or not, but my issue now is that fuel won't get pumped to the carburetor from the fuel tank. However, the fuel delivery issue was occurring even with the old carburetor, so I know it can't be an issue with the new carburetor. I can use my lawnmower for about 5min at a time before the carburetor becomes starved of fuel and the engine cuts off. There are two ways I can resolve this issue:

Add more fuel to the tank keeping it perpetually full

or

Blow into the fuel tank in order to "push" fuel to wherever it needs to go so that it can get to the carburetor

Neither of these two solutions are desirable for me. What should I look for on my lawnmower to fix this issue? Do lawnmowers have a fuel pump? I've always thought that the fuel delivery from tank to carburetor was gravity assist, but with this perpetual issue, it's obviously not. Do lawnmowers actually have a fuel pump?


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post #2 of 27 Old 05-15-2017, 08:59 AM
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No fuel pump. The breathing of the engine draws air through the carb which pulls gas. You either have an air leak somewhere or you have a flow problem. If you can pull the delivery hose off the float bowl of the carb will fuel just pour out fast? If not then you hae something in the tank/hose.

It can be the float apparatus. There's a needle valve in there somewhere that is controlled by the float. Maybe there's an issue there.

When you put on the new carb did you put the paper gasket back between the carb and the engine? If not you probably have an air leak.

It's all I got. If I couldn't figure it out I'd just take it in to a shop.

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post #3 of 27 Old 05-15-2017, 09:27 AM
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By any chance, did you mistakenly put a fuel filter that's for engines with a fuel pump? B&S engines without a fuel pump seem to require the small filters with a screen in them. I'm assuming the carb doesn't have enough power to draw from the paper filter.
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post #4 of 27 Old 05-15-2017, 10:42 AM
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1) Check out salcuta's remark. Sometimes over-engineering these lawnmower engines is not a good thing.

2) qman has excellent points. First eliminate the fuel tank as the problem. Does gas flow out of the bottom of the tank?

3) If gas flows well, your problem is the carb's float bowl. If you can't start it again until you press the red finger primer pump 3-5 times to get FORCE more fuel into the carb bowl, then the carb bowl isn't allowing gravity to feed the bowl. Why? Because the pin is dirty and does not recognize that the bowl has run out of fuel. The float bowl may not even be moving!

4) Ghetto Solution #1 is to remove the float bowl (one small nut), and spray the heck out of the insides of the carb bowl with carb cleaner. Wait an hour, then spray again. You can even re-install the float bowl and fill up not with gas, but with Seafoam or liquid carb cleaner and let sit overnight.

5) If the ghetto solution does not work, then yes, remove the carb and rebuild. donyboy73 has some EXCELLENT YouTube videos on how to do this. You will need a carb re-build kit (under $15) and that will come with new gaskets including the one for the float bowl AND the one that mounts the carb to the B&S engine.

If a lot of gas (a full tank) keeps the engine running- that is because the weight of all that extra gas is pushing fuel into the carb. If at 1/4 tank your engine dies every five minutes, your float bowl is dirty- meaning that needle is dirty, the spring is dirty, the small holes are plugged up, etc.....it all needs to be cleaned.

I have a 13 year old Toro with a Tecumseh engine- it starts on the first half of the first pull every single time. I ONLY run 100% gasoline, no ethanol at all. The gas can sit in the carb for a couple of weeks in summer and it does not matter. Ethanol will kill your carb- even if you run Stabil. For Stabil to work properly, you must add it to the gas can same day as you filled that gas can, AND, the gas from the station can't be older than 3-5 days. Stabil added to 7 day-old gasoline won't save you- it will gum up the carb.

This is why I advocate for the beating and deportation of everyone connected to the ethanol industry.
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post #5 of 27 Old 05-16-2017, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salcuta View Post
By any chance, did you mistakenly put a fuel filter that's for engines with a fuel pump? B&S engines without a fuel pump seem to require the small filters with a screen in them. I'm assuming the carb doesn't have enough power to draw from the paper filter.
Yes, this assembly has a filter between the tank and carburetor.

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Originally Posted by RickBlaine View Post
1) Check out salcuta's remark. Sometimes over-engineering these lawnmower engines is not a good thing.

2) qman has excellent points. First eliminate the fuel tank as the problem. Does gas flow out of the bottom of the tank?

3) If gas flows well, your problem is the carb's float bowl. If you can't start it again until you press the red finger primer pump 3-5 times to get FORCE more fuel into the carb bowl, then the carb bowl isn't allowing gravity to feed the bowl. Why? Because the pin is dirty and does not recognize that the bowl has run out of fuel. The float bowl may not even be moving!

4) Ghetto Solution #1 is to remove the float bowl (one small nut), and spray the heck out of the insides of the carb bowl with carb cleaner. Wait an hour, then spray again. You can even re-install the float bowl and fill up not with gas, but with Seafoam or liquid carb cleaner and let sit overnight.

5) If the ghetto solution does not work, then yes, remove the carb and rebuild. donyboy73 has some EXCELLENT YouTube videos on how to do this. You will need a carb re-build kit (under $15) and that will come with new gaskets including the one for the float bowl AND the one that mounts the carb to the B&S engine.

If a lot of gas (a full tank) keeps the engine running- that is because the weight of all that extra gas is pushing fuel into the carb. If at 1/4 tank your engine dies every five minutes, your float bowl is dirty- meaning that needle is dirty, the spring is dirty, the small holes are plugged up, etc.....it all needs to be cleaned.

I have a 13 year old Toro with a Tecumseh engine- it starts on the first half of the first pull every single time. I ONLY run 100% gasoline, no ethanol at all. The gas can sit in the carb for a couple of weeks in summer and it does not matter. Ethanol will kill your carb- even if you run Stabil. For Stabil to work properly, you must add it to the gas can same day as you filled that gas can, AND, the gas from the station can't be older than 3-5 days. Stabil added to 7 day-old gasoline won't save you- it will gum up the carb.

This is why I advocate for the beating and deportation of everyone connected to the ethanol industry.
1. Addressed, see above

2. I'll check that out, it's a great point

3. This engine does not have a primer bulb

4. This is a new carburetor, see my OP. Original carburetor was rebuilt for a different fuel delivery issue (but this fuel delivery issue was already present). I had hoped that rebuilding the carburetor would resolve both issues, but it didn't. It only solved the other one. Later replacing the original carburetor, this issue persisted.

5. No need, brand new carburetor

Yes, a full tank pushes fuel into the carburetor so when that depletes, the engine dies (fuel, spark, air). My lawnmower dies with the tank at 3/4 full!!!

I've never needed to run Stabil, on any lawnmower I've ever used growing up when I mowed the lawn at my parents' house, so I never bothered to use some on mine now that I have my own lawnmower, but will consider it.

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post #6 of 27 Old 05-16-2017, 08:41 AM
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I'm probably way over my head trying to give advice on this, but whenever my dad has fixed a piece of carbureted lawn equipment, it was usually related to the little filter screen or the fuel hose in the tank.

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post #7 of 27 Old 05-16-2017, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn View Post
I've never needed to run Stabil, on any lawnmower I've ever used growing up when I mowed the lawn at my parents' house, so I never bothered to use some on mine now that I have my own lawnmower, but will consider it.
THAT may be the problem. 90% gas + 10% ethanol sitting in a lawnmower's fuel tank is gonna go bad quickly. It will accumulate moisture in the air and gum up a carb- new or old.

Do you have any ethanol-free gas stations near you?

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post #8 of 27 Old 05-16-2017, 09:28 AM
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THAT may be the problem. 90% gas + 10% ethanol sitting in a lawnmower's fuel tank is gonna go bad quickly. It will accumulate moisture in the air and gum up a carb- new or old.

Do you have any ethanol-free gas stations near you?

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Depends on what you mean by quickly. My lawnmower sits with that mixture in its tank and carb every winter from Oct - Apr (6-7 months) and my mower is still a first pull of the season mower. My mower is 10+ years old and the one I sold to my buddy was purchased in 1988. Both are first pull mowers and both sit with that fuel for months.

OP that is not your issue. If you had a gummed up carb a full tank of gas wouldn't help. If you have a new carb and an issue that you had with the old carb, then the odds are it's not a carb issue. You most likely have a fuel or air flow issue somewhere. It's either the tank/hose to carb or on the other side of the carb.

Or (this is a reach) your airflow is restricted enough that it can only run with the help of the weight of a full tank of gas and after that the suction isn't strong enough. When it dies pull off the air filter and see if that helps. Maybe you have some crud stuck in the intake.

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post #9 of 27 Old 05-16-2017, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBlaine View Post
THAT may be the problem. 90% gas + 10% ethanol sitting in a lawnmower's fuel tank is gonna go bad quickly. It will accumulate moisture in the air and gum up a carb- new or old.

Do you have any ethanol-free gas stations near you?

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The closest one to me is THIS one, but it's way out of my way (35mi one way), and not a traditional gas station. I imagine that they have hours of operations that don't work with my work schedule.

The general rule of thumb that I've followed has been that as long as the fuel still looks anywhere from clear(ish) to light yellow, the fuel is good. It's once the fuel turns orange to brown is when the fuel is bad. That said, you have to remember that I'm in California and fuel in properly stored conditions will remain clear(ish) to light yellow for really long periods of time because of all the extra additives that are required by state law for emissions purposes. Case and point. When I had my Thunderbird undergoing a top end rebuild, the fuel was at 1/3 full when I parked it, and it was parked for 1.5yrs. Before firing her up, I disconnected the fuel filter and primed the fuel pump into an empty 1gal. clear container to check the color of the fuel and it was still a light yellow color. I dumped the 1gal. of fuel back into the fuel tank, re-connected everything, and fired her up without any issues.

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OP that is not your issue. If you had a gummed up carb a full tank of gas wouldn't help. If you have a new carb and an issue that you had with the old carb, then the odds are it's not a carb issue. You have a flow issue somewhere. It's either the tank/hose to carb or on the other side of the carb.
Right, I know it's a flow issue since the issue persists with my new carb. That's what I was getting at in my OP, which is why I was asking if these lawnmowers have a fuel pump of some sort or if they are gravity assist (mentioned in my OP).

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Or (this is a reach) your airflow is restricted enough that it can only run with the help of the weight of a full tank of gas and after that the suction isn't strong enough. When it dies pull off the air filter and see if that helps. Maybe you have some crud stuck in the intake.
When I pulled the carb, I have to remove the air filter. I cleaned everything to be like-new condition. The filter was also relatively new and still fairly clean, so I just tapped off the filter and re-used it (I've seen dirty filters and mine was nowhere near that, mine just had light debris). I doubt it's an airflow issue.

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post #10 of 27 Old 05-16-2017, 10:41 AM
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Out here, most stations have ethanol-free gas but only in premium. So that's what I get for the lawnmower, plus some Sta-Bil. The Sta-Bil may be optional but ethanol-free probably is not.

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post #11 of 27 Old 05-16-2017, 03:47 PM
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Whenever I have a fuel problem in one of my gardening engines, I put a tablespoon of techron in the tank with the fuel and call it a day. If I can get the engine running at all, usually in 10 mins of running, the problem goes away.

A month ago my garden tiller had fuel delivery issues. Even priming the bulb wouldn't get fuel into the bulb. The tank has a vent to allow air into the tank so that the fuel will flow. I blew that out with my compressor. At that point fuel would flow into the bulb but not enough to keep the engine running. Added the tablespoon of techron and primed the heck out of it. It would run for a few seconds longer each time I got it running. Repeated the priming/starting routine about 10x and it stayed running after that.

Every spring I have this issue to some extent. My lawnmower's start usually (Honda engines, of course). But they are always rough until I remember to put the techron in.

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post #12 of 27 Old 05-16-2017, 04:03 PM
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If my plug in electric mower ever dies, I'm getting another.
No gas, no spark plug, no filters, no oil. Always runs.
Only downside is managing a 100' cord, not a big deal.

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post #13 of 27 Old 05-17-2017, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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I'll drain the fuel and I'll run a fuel additive as well to clear out any deposits that may be left behind. I'll also change the oil. I've had it for 3yrs and never changed the oil. The lawnmower itself was given to me by a family member and I'm sure they never changed the oil either.

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If my plug in electric mower ever dies, I'm getting another.
No gas, no spark plug, no filters, no oil. Always runs.
Only downside is managing a 100' cord, not a big deal.
I've always been afraid of the user running over the extension cord in those things.

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post #14 of 27 Old 05-17-2017, 08:26 AM
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Push Mower

If my push mower every dies will get an electric model

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post #15 of 27 Old 05-17-2017, 08:46 AM
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Depends on what you mean by quickly. My lawnmower sits with that mixture in its tank and carb every winter from Oct - Apr (6-7 months) and my mower is still a first pull of the season mower. My mower is 10+ years old and the one I sold to my buddy was purchased in 1988. Both are first pull mowers and both sit with that fuel for months.

OP that is not your issue.

Or (this is a reach) your airflow is restricted enough that it can only run with the help of the weight of a full tank of gas and after that the suction isn't strong enough. When it dies pull off the air filter and see if that helps. Maybe you have some crud stuck in the intake.
Agreed- but Colorado is far less humid than is Chicago. My ethanol/gas would not last as long in an "open" plastic lawnmower tank. Good point that is has to be a blockage.

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Whenever I have a fuel problem in one of my gardening engines, I put a tablespoon of techron in the tank with the fuel and call it a day. If I can get the engine running at all, usually in 10 mins of running, the problem goes away.
Techron or Seafoam, etc....can't hurt.

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If my plug in electric mower ever dies, I'm getting another.
No gas, no spark plug, no filters, no oil. Always runs.
Only downside is managing a 100' cord, not a big deal.
Yeah, I'll get one of those battery powered ones. Lowes had some crazy deal a couple of years ago with an extra battery, and it was a multi-tool battery application for your trimmer, blower, etc....the great news was that they guaranteed the battery for 5 years and offered some sort of buyback program.

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I'll drain the fuel and I'll run a fuel additive as well to clear out any deposits that may be left behind. I'll also change the oil. I've had it for 3yrs and never changed the oil. The lawnmower itself was given to me by a family member and I'm sure they never changed the oil either.

I've always been afraid of the user running over the extension cord in those things.
I used to run over the cord all the time. Got all kinds of shocks and electrical tape repairs over it. Then one day at a garage sale some dude offered me $10 for it and the cord with 10 repairs. I took it as my high school shop class was getting rid of their gas mower engine repair trainer for $10. Win-win sez I.

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If my push mower every dies will get an electric model
Battery Aziz!


As for air intake, wasn't it Mazda a few years ago that found spiders were making webs in the fuel tank's air opening, leading to CEL and fuel canister replacements? Wonder if the little plastic cap (or metal) is the problem. Will the mower die if the fuel cap is removed? You have to be careful because you don't want gas splashing onto a hot engine (that is bad). But if the engine stays running, then maybe the fuel is being burned but air can't replenish the space vacated by the fuel, creating a vacuum.

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