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04 accord v6 auto trans problems

3K views 28 replies 13 participants last post by  t-rd 
#1 ·
my sister has a 04 accord v6 auto with 192k yesterday she lost all power while driving so i had to tow her home when i opened the hood i can smell burnt trans fluid great so i replaced the filter and fluid today and took it for a test drive no problems shifting fine so went home to check the fluid and its dirty/burnt like i never changed it and when i went to back out of the driveway it reversed fine but in drive nothing turned it off and back on and had full power again so my question sound like trans going out or possibly torque converter ?
 
#2 ·
Great on you for replacing the filter!
One drain and fill with 3 quarts replaces the old stuff with 43% new fluid. Second D&F leaves you with 68% new fluid. Third D&F: 82% new fluid!
One other thing to watch out for is that the additive pack on DW1 depletes rather quickly. A drain and fill every oil change would be really great for maintaining fluid health.
 
#7 ·
First I've heard that about the additive pack.
 
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#3 ·
What was the initial fluid level, before you changed it? Also, had it ever been changed or checked before this?
 
#5 ·
First trans. fluid change @ 192,000 (?), burnt fluid, you want to take it slow when changing out the fluid. Maybe do a second change but realize that the grit/dirt in the trans. may be the only thing that is providing the worn clutch packs with friction. Also you may need new pressure switches. I think you may be on borrowed time though so have a plan B also.
 
#8 ·
I have absolutely no idea what OP means here. He says the car lost all power. Last I checked, that is the job of the engine, not transmission. These type of posts will kill me.
 
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#9 ·
My daughter had the 04 V6 also. I fear you're headed for a rebuild. If you do that, best externalize the cooling unit.
 
#12 ·
When i say lost all power i mean trans not engaging engine is fine rpms up to 3 or 4 k with nothing from trans just sitting there i used honda trans fluid and filter whats werid tho is i can sit there reving and nothing turn off the car turn it back on and trans is working again
 
#14 ·
@jimijam , @chris918 , ask and you shall receive!

Was poking around on the internet when considering switching to Redline D6.

==QUICK SUMMARY== (In case you don't want to read on; sources and more info below)
- Blackstone recommends 1x3 every 15k due to additive depletion
- Blackstone recommends 3x3 if solids buildup.
- Z1 and DW1 have low flashpoints and are highly friction modified to maintain shift quality (FM is an 'additive' on the base oil)
- Redline D4/D6 seem to be recommended, with good results with Amsoil/Valvoline ATF as well.

==DEEPER DIVE==
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Blackstone Used Oil Analysis performed on DW1 1x3 seem to suggest 1x3 drain/fill every 15k. They SPECIFICALLY mention the additive pack. They also mention a 3x3 if solids build up.

Source 1: HondaOdyATFreport080210.jpg Photo by rinconvtr | Photobucket
Source 2: OdyATFJan2011.jpg Photo by rinconvtr | Photobucket

*Note: Although source 1 says Z1, forum posts by 'rinconvtr' confirm that DW1 is being used
Source 3: Another UOA - ATF and Motor

The flash point for DW1 and Z1 have very low flash points (170C for both).
Mobil 1, Redline D4, Amsoil: 234-236C.
Royal Purple ATF: 216C
Source: http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/45-fluid-dynamics/65623-new-dw-1-atf-may-not-synthetic.html

==Other findings==

DW1 and Z1 are both very highly friction modified. This is in an attempt to maintain shift quality in tiny cars like the fit, but also in heavy/powerful cars like the Ridgeline.

Friction modifier seems to increase slip as engagement happens
Source: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2229041/94exa2#Post2229041

DW1 seems to start at lower viscosity when new. Source chart has Z1, DW1, RL Racing, RL D6, RL D4, Amsoil and a lot of other fluids.
Source: http://www.odyclub.com/forums/attac...line-d4-vs-dw-1-atf-viscosity-100-then-40.jpg

DW1 appears to have better share resistance than Z1, in part due to being semi synthetic.
Although Z1 starts at a higher viscosity, it does appear to shear very towards and sometimes getting worse than DW1 levels.
Source: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3293685/Quakish#Post3293685

In spite of this, the flash point for DW1 and Z1 are the same, and very low compared to other ATFs as mentioned above.
 
#18 ·
@jimijam , @chris918 , ask and you shall receive!

Was poking around on the internet when considering switching to Redline D6.

==QUICK SUMMARY== (In case you don't want to read on; sources and more info below)
- Blackstone recommends 1x3 every 15k due to additive depletion
- Blackstone recommends 3x3 if solids buildup.
- Z1 and DW1 have low flashpoints and are highly friction modified to maintain shift quality (FM is an 'additive' on the base oil)
- Redline D4/D6 seem to be recommended, with good results with Amsoil/Valvoline ATF as well.

==DEEPER DIVE==
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Blackstone Used Oil Analysis performed on DW1 1x3 seem to suggest 1x3 drain/fill every 15k. They SPECIFICALLY mention the additive pack. They also mention a 3x3 if solids build up.

Source 1: HondaOdyATFreport080210.jpg Photo by rinconvtr | Photobucket
Source 2: OdyATFJan2011.jpg Photo by rinconvtr | Photobucket

*Note: Although source 1 says Z1, forum posts by 'rinconvtr' confirm that DW1 is being used
Source 3: Another UOA - ATF and Motor

The flash point for DW1 and Z1 have very low flash points (170C for both).
Mobil 1, Redline D4, Amsoil: 234-236C.
Royal Purple ATF: 216C
Source: http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/45-fluid-dynamics/65623-new-dw-1-atf-may-not-synthetic.html

==Other findings==

DW1 and Z1 are both very highly friction modified. This is in an attempt to maintain shift quality in tiny cars like the fit, but also in heavy/powerful cars like the Ridgeline.

Friction modifier seems to increase slip as engagement happens

Source: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2229041/94exa2#Post2229041

DW1 seems to start at lower viscosity when new. Source chart has Z1, DW1, RL Racing, RL D6, RL D4, Amsoil and a lot of other fluids.
Source: http://www.odyclub.com/forums/attac...line-d4-vs-dw-1-atf-viscosity-100-then-40.jpg

DW1 appears to have better share resistance than Z1, in part due to being semi synthetic.
Although Z1 starts at a higher viscosity, it does appear to shear very towards and sometimes getting worse than DW1 levels.
Source: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3293685/Quakish#Post3293685

In spite of this, the flash point for DW1 and Z1 are the same, and very low compared to other ATFs as mentioned above.
So let's spit a few hairs here since one size does not fit all.

Re: Blackstones' statement on additive package.....that is NOT the way I see it. The guy posted two reports and later stated that he used DW1 both times. His first report was at 16600 miles and states there was 16600 miles on the ATF so this report is an analysis of all Z1 unless he failed to disclose he did an earlier D&F with DW1 between 0 & 16599 miles. His first report had a general statement about the "additive package" and "solids" but was absent on his second report. His second report was actually his first report that contained 3 qts of DW1 mixed in with the original Z1. So, there's that.

Re: Friction modifiers and slippage.....no offense, but I'm not holding too much stock into what someone on BITOG says anymore than I do of some here that claim all 2003-2007 Accord V6 ATs will explode. As we both know, if you've done your research, that slippage is a delicate balance in cars like these to get them to shift smooth as possible when taking into consideration everything else an AT is expected to do for its life-cycle.

Re: Flashpoint......For an heavier vehicle that sees towing duty, like the guy that posted his reports, this is MUCH more of a concern than it is for my V6 Accord that sees no towing, and I would assume even less of an issue for the i4 guys with much less power running their their AT. My AT has never seen those temps and I have not added an aftermarket cooler like a few have.

People can sit around and bench race all day while reading MSDS' (I have), oil analysis reports, or forum posts but they aren't necessarily getting anywhere. Just because an ATF performs better is one category (ie. flash point) than another ATF, does not mean that ATF is better for a specific transmission. If it were that easy, those pesky Honda engineers would have created an AT that would meet their performance/reliability/longevity requirements to work with an off the shelf ATF as several car manufacturers have done.
 
#15 ·
15k for an odyssey sounds reasonable. Big heavy van is known for eating transmissions anyway.
 
#17 ·
On the V6, yeah they're hard on trannys. Some crazy people can get 40-50k miles out of a drain and fill on their 4cyl and still go 300K.
 
#19 ·
Oooh SLAMMED ^^^
 
#20 ·
In my experience, a transmission going bad will only get worse. Changing the fluid won't fix your mechanical issues. Best take it to the shop while you still can. But it's kind of scary when the car suddenly cannot accelerate. Be CAREFUL! It ain't worth it.

In regards to ATFs in HONDA; you must stick w/ Honda OEM ATF and nothing else. There are no exceptions to this, and I have always followed this.

For drain and refills; I've read how you're supposed to drain/refill in increments like changing fish tank water. A complete 'flush' or drain/refill will actually be bad for the transmission. Something about it being too slick, too clean, and transmission lacking friction and slipping.

The drain plug is also magnetized and attracts the metal particles and thus may be an indicator of things.


In any case, take it to a shop and avoid driving.
 
#22 ·
Front suspension work is easy on the 7th gwn
 
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#28 ·
I got KYBs for around $150 shipped. I did all my front LCA bushings for $46, with the help of a press. That sounds pretty cheap to me, especially compared to the guaranteed depreciation losses of a new car.
 
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#24 ·
Yeah I'm looking into some oems. I want nothing to do with new cars. Too much electronics to break and not be able to fix
 
#25 ·
You could consider Koni STR.T or even yellows given your setup - they have a lifetime warranty and would compliment your other modifications.
The new Civic seems to be having a lot of issues with its digital dash.

The Camry should be ok - prius already has had a variant of TGNA modular platform for a while, the 3.5 DI has been out on Tacoma, Highlander, and Sienna, and the 8 speed Aisin box has been on quite a number of cars already.
 
#27 ·
I'm curious whether this 04 was part of the recall, and if it had the oil jet kit installed in place of the fill bolt? Seems like that would provide some insight on the potential outcome. Good luck.
 
#29 ·
- You don't use the Redline fluid unless you have the correct mixture of fluid, this has been documented on acurazine.net . D4 needs to mix with DW-1. Pure Reline D4 fluid causes shift flares on the 3rd gen Acura TL, which utilizes the same At transmission as the 7th gen Accord V6 AT. The shift flares shows up as a split second of shift miss. You failed here, by reading just the blackstone reports the oil dude's website. There is a discussion on acurazine.net with many pages documenting the problem with Redline D4 fluid using very little FM.

- owners who are on edge because they HAVE NOT performed regular V6 transmission fluid changes.

Repeat and repeat once more, I'm about to hit 250k miles on my 07 V6 with ZERO transmission issue, EVER. 15k single drain/fill, 30k triple drain/fill, 50k 3rd/4th gear pressure switches, external B&M trans cooler with built-in cold temp bypass.
 
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