No V6 for 2018 Accord. No word on CVT - Page 3 - Drive Accord Honda Forums
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post #31 of 689 Old 11-14-2016, 03:35 PM
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If you want a Honda with a V6 and a dual clutch automatic transmission, then reach in your pocket and pony up for an Acura. It's only about an additional $10,000. BTW Acura doesn't offer a manual transmission for the same reason it will be dropped from the Accord.
Yup, this is what I'm buying for my next sedan: Acura, BMW, Porsche, Infinity; something like that.
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I don't know about you, but most of the people that I know have no idea how many cylinders their engine has. None. Zero. It boggles the mind, but... what I am saying is - people will keep buying Accords just because they are Accords.
Dealers currently sell LX/EX models 10:1 compared to EX-L V6/Touring trim lines so they won't even miss the V6 business.

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post #32 of 689 Old 11-14-2016, 04:14 PM
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Audi, MB, VW, Ford, GM, and my Volvo S60 all do pretty well with an I4 turbo. Driven to match a V6 performance, you can kiss all of those precious MPGs goodbye.
This is precisely my issue with the new generation of turbo engines. On paper they offer good power and good fuel economy. After having driven several rentals with turbos (MB, Ford, Hyundai, VW) I have to say that even driven in a non spirited manner the fuel economy is bad. If driven like a typical old lady they may be great, but then why bother with a turbo in the first place?

I also have reservations about long term longevity and long term maintenance costs of the new turbo engines. For the folks who lease or buy and trade after a few years this will be a non issue. For the folks that buy Accord for the long haul it remains to be seen how the turbo engines will fare.

I can see some potential Accord V6 sedan buyers heading over to Toyota showrooms where, apparently, the Camry will continue with a V6.

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If I'm not mistaken, where manufacturers are adding turbos to their cars, they're reducing the engine displacement and maintaining the cylinder count. If Honda wanted to make a 2.8L v6 with a turbo, I'd be all for that. I'm not against progress. I just can't envision a reality where a turbo-four is any kind of replacement for a normally-aspirated-six, especially in the eyes of the average non-enthusiast consumer.
The problem I have with the current automatic/CVT 4-cyl engines in Honda products (specifically Accord and the older 4-cyl TSX) is the vibration felt while at a stop light idling in drive. I have yet to come across an example that didn't have horrid and noticeable vibration. I don't see how adding a turbo will make these engines any smoother.


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post #33 of 689 Old 11-14-2016, 05:15 PM
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The turbo 14 will probably require premium fuel or, like Acura, they will recommend premium. I think my V6 will soon acquire additional value.
If it requires premium, I will for sure go with something different or buy a '17 V6.

On the other hand, if we are stuck with the turbo 4, I'm tempted by the '17 CR-V. It appears to be an extremely nice vehicle with near-luxury features and interior.

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post #34 of 689 Old 11-14-2016, 05:23 PM
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I hope this isn't the case. I have complete confidence Honda can (and currently does) make a great turbo, but there is just something about the smooth power of the Honda V6. It would be nice if Honda still offered the V6 in the Accord line up. I plan on keeping my current Accord for another 10 years as long as it remains reliable, but after that I had thoughts of getting an Accord V6, it looks like that may not be a possibility.
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post #35 of 689 Old 11-14-2016, 05:23 PM
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The problem I have with the current automatic/CVT 4-cyl engines in Honda products (specifically Accord and the older 4-cyl TSX) is the vibration felt while at a stop light idling in drive. I have yet to come across an example that didn't have horrid and noticeable vibration. I don't see how adding a turbo will make these engines any smoother.
My experience is much different than yours. My 2013 Accord Coupe idles as smoothly as a turbine engine. My wife's 2015 CR-V with the same power plant and CVT transmission exhibits a very slight vibration at idle with the AC off. Beacause she drives with the AC on most of the year the vibration doesn't bother her. If it becomes a problem Honda has a TSB to repair the problem as long as it's reported under the 3yr 36,000 mile warrantee.

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post #36 of 689 Old 11-14-2016, 07:11 PM
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If I had to choose, I'd rather have the manual transmission survive than the V6. It's a shame given how smooth the Honda V6 has been for years.
I see MT as kind of a feature on powerful cars now, given how CVT is more fuel efficient and simpler than planetary gear AT.

Wouldn't complain if lower trim Civics(or cars like that) got rid of MT. The $1000 you save is just not worth the hassle for a smaller car like that. I would imagine it being more of a hassle than fun anyways. CVT is also more comfortable, with no shift jumps, so it works better for cars emphasizing on comfort. MT probably hurts resale value for smaller cars, too, because not a lot of people knows how to drive an MT car nowadays, and the $1000 difference between MT and AT pretty much disappears with a used car.

For anything more powerful than Accord V6(including Accord V6), oh yeah. From what I have heard, it's a heck lot of fun once you get used to it. MT also still has the highest engine-to-wheel horsepower efficiency. That's what motivates me to learn MT in the future. Shame to see all those muscle cars with AT's nowadays. You are doing it wrong, guys!


And I am not just making this up. One of my friends chose to have a VW Golf GTI with MT, and he loves it. My other friends who have cheap cars with MT hate every second of it.

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This is precisely my issue with the new generation of turbo engines. On paper they offer good power and good fuel economy. After having driven several rentals with turbos (MB, Ford, Hyundai, VW) I have to say that even driven in a non spirited manner the fuel economy is bad. If driven like a typical old lady they may be great, but then why bother with a turbo in the first place?

I also have reservations about long term longevity and long term maintenance costs of the new turbo engines. For the folks who lease or buy and trade after a few years this will be a non issue. For the folks that buy Accord for the long haul it remains to be seen how the turbo engines will fare.

I can see some potential Accord V6 sedan buyers heading over to Toyota showrooms where, apparently, the Camry will continue with a V6.
Used to love Toyota. My dad had a Toyota SUV(can't remember which one) when I was a kid, and that thing is pretty badass.

The deal killer? No Coupes. Even Lexus doesn't have that many Coupes to choose from. For younger people like me, I don't care about how much more practical Sedans are, I just care about how nice Coupes look.

Besides, BC's N license pretty much encourages drivers with them to get Coupes, since you can only carry 1 passenger legally anyways. There are a lot of reasons I disagree with some restrictions of BC's N license, to say the least. The 1 passenger limit is one of them. No other provinces have them, so why BC? Just gives rich kids one more excuse to buy supercars because guess what, most of them are two-seaters.
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post #37 of 689 Old 11-15-2016, 01:50 AM
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Apparently the VCM motor (although great in real world MPG) doesn't yield the necessary MPG in EPA testing. Is this the end of the V6 for good? Remember that Honda never even had a V6 until the mid 1990's. If gasoline continues to power automobile engines(a big if), Honda will figure out a way to get a VCM in a small displacement V6 with a turbo. My bet is that the technology required to get the turbo and VCM to play nicely together is too expensive at the moment. You'll see it in an Acura first, but if its successful enough, it will make its way into Honda's. Though, I also bet that the 2.0 turbo motor will not disappoint.
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post #38 of 689 Old 11-15-2016, 03:25 AM
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Honda's future is what you see in the NSX. Variants of this will be in all of Honda cars going forward. It will probably become more and more difficult to get a naturally aspirated engine in any configuration. My guess is that the other manufacturers will continue to do the same in the quest for mpg's. Honda is going to sell a lot of cars either way whatever us V6 cry babies think. The problem is there is nothing really exciting about their offerings anymore. The 4 banger/CVT combo is just too boring. If the 2.0 turbo is going to be so great, I'll keep an open mind but I'm not hopeful. So now we kind of know what Honda will be offering for the next 6 to 7 years which isn't much to get excited about so all eyes are on Acura which needs to have something better. My sister just got a 2017 MDX. It's got everything that Honda can offer and it's nice but not worth 56K IMO. It's basically a Honda with every possible option. You could spend 20k less and be totally satisfied. I've pretty much covered all the bases with Honda now having owned all of them except a Civic and Pilot. The Ridgeline is a really nice ride. The drivetrain is nearly perfect match and the ride and planted feel is really good. The V6 Accord is also really nice. It's quietness, smoothness and capability for a 30k car is amazing. The problem is been there done that so what's next before my driving days are over? The only thing I can think of is a V8 but I'm not going to be that old fart driving a Mustang or am I?

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post #39 of 689 Old 11-15-2016, 03:39 AM
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Apparently the VCM motor (although great in real world MPG) doesn't yield the necessary MPG in EPA testing. Is this the end of the V6 for good? Remember that Honda never even had a V6 until the mid 1990's. If gasoline continues to power automobile engines(a big if), Honda will figure out a way to get a VCM in a small displacement V6 with a turbo. My bet is that the technology required to get the turbo and VCM to play nicely together is too expensive at the moment. You'll see it in an Acura first, but if its successful enough, it will make its way into Honda's. Though, I also bet that the 2.0 turbo motor will not disappoint.
The real question is why would Honda want or need a V6 engine in the Accord. A well designed I4 with a turbocharger will provide the same power as the old V6. The J series V6 engine is getting long in the tooth as someone already mentioned it's been around since the 1990s. Progress moves forward. Does anyone bemone the discontinuance of the old Ford flat head V8 engines once they went to overhead valves?

I think Honda is making a major deliniation between the Acura and Honda brands. If you want a V6, a dual clutch automatic then you are going to have to buy an Acura. The current Accord Touring is not that much cheaper than the lowest priced TLX.

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post #40 of 689 Old 11-15-2016, 04:08 AM
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The real question is why would Honda want or need a V6 engine in the Accord. A well designed I4 with a turbocharger will provide the same power as the old V6. The J series V6 engine is getting long in the tooth as someone already mentioned it's been around since the 1990s. Progress moves forward.
While I more or less agree with you, I'm not sure if the rest of Honda's customers will. Why would Honda want or need a V6 engine in the Accord? - If it will sell more of the higher profit top-trim models, they need it. If not, they don't.

I'm not thinking 3.0 L, or even 2.5 L V6. I'm thinking 2.0L V6 with a turbo and a VCM. I can imagine that a 2.0L V6 with turbo and VCM will offer similar horsepower/torque/city MPG vs the 2.0 L I4, but with 10 - 15% better highway MPG.

I've been loyal to Honda since 1994 (with the exception of a train station car), when I bought my first Honda product. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when my lease is up. There are lots of choices:
1. Civic EX-T sedan with the 6 speed,
2. 10th gen accord if there still is a MT version
3. Mazda 6
4. Try and find a lightly used 9th gen 6/6
5. Buy out my lease.

One thing I'm certain of, is that I will not lease again. I leased my car with 15K miles a year and paid an extra $30 a month to do so thinking I'd be commuting 50 miles a day. A year into the lease, my job is now allowing me to WFH 4 days a week. At this rate, I'll have 30K on my car when the lease is up, while having paid for 45K

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1992 Nissan Maxima SE 4AT
1986 Nissan Maxima SE 5MT
1981 Saab 900 Turbo 4D 3AT "The money pit" $5K+ in repairs in 2 years
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post #41 of 689 Old 11-15-2016, 05:24 AM
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At this rate, I'll have 30K on my car when the lease is up, while having paid for 45K
Road trip! See the Grand Canyon, drive route 50 across country, see the badlands, see Crater Lake, eat Te-Mex in El Paso, laugh at lack of real estate zoning laws in Houston, make fun of German tourists in Key West, ponder how you can get 4x more house in South Carolina for the same money than in Jersey, make fun of the Boston accent, dodge bullets in Chicago, see the covered bridges in Iowa, take the rapids in Colorado, wrestle grizzly bears in Montana.....
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post #42 of 689 Old 11-15-2016, 05:31 AM
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Road trip! See the Grand Canyon, drive route 50 across country, see the badlands, see Crater Lake, eat Te-Mex in El Paso, laugh at lack of real estate zoning laws in Houston, make fun of German tourists in Key West, ponder how you can get 4x more house in South Carolina for the same money than in Jersey, make fun of the Boston accent, dodge bullets in Chicago, see the covered bridges in Iowa, take the rapids in Colorado, wrestle grizzly bears in Montana.....
Sounds good, adding most of those to my todo list. I'm not retiring any time soon though, so it will just have to wait. LOL especially the Chicago one! I attended 1 year of high school in NYC in the 1980's - pretty much the same there during that time. You forgot my favorite: "Go over Niagara Falls in a barrel"

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1986 Nissan Maxima SE 5MT
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post #43 of 689 Old 11-15-2016, 06:21 AM
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The turbo 14 will probably require premium fuel or, like Acura, they will recommend premium.
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If it requires premium, I will for sure go with something different or buy a '17 V6.
There is no-way Honda will build an Accord that requires premium fuel. Honda would lose their target audience: the middle income buyer; if they released "any" vehicle in their line that requires premium fuel.
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post #44 of 689 Old 11-15-2016, 06:25 AM
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While I more or less agree with you, I'm not sure if the rest of Honda's customers will. Why would Honda want or need a V6 engine in the Accord? - If it will sell more of the higher profit top-trim models, they need it. If not, they don't.

I'm not thinking 3.0 L, or even 2.5 L V6. I'm thinking 2.0L V6 with a turbo and a VCM. I can imagine that a 2.0L V6 with turbo and VCM will offer similar horsepower/torque/city MPG vs the 2.0 L I4, but with 10 - 15% better highway MPG.

I've been loyal to Honda since 1994 (with the exception of a train station car), when I bought my first Honda product. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when my lease is up. There are lots of choices:
1. Civic EX-T sedan with the 6 speed,
2. 10th gen accord if there still is a MT version
3. Mazda 6
4. Try and find a lightly used 9th gen 6/6
5. Buy out my lease.

One thing I'm certain of, is that I will not lease again. I leased my car with 15K miles a year and paid an extra $30 a month to do so thinking I'd be commuting 50 miles a day. A year into the lease, my job is now allowing me to WFH 4 days a week. At this rate, I'll have 30K on my car when the lease is up, while having paid for 45K

You will never see a 2 liter V6. I expect that most car companies will standardize on a 500cc/cylinder model, or something around that, and you would get 3,4,6, or 8 of them in your car.

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post #45 of 689 Old 11-15-2016, 09:00 AM
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I can imagine that a 2.0L V6 with turbo and VCM will offer similar horsepower/torque/city MPG vs the 2.0 L I4, but with 10 - 15% better highway MPG.

One thing I'm certain of, is that I will not lease again. I leased my car with 15K miles a year and paid an extra $30 a month to do so thinking I'd be commuting 50 miles a day. A year into the lease, my job is now allowing me to WFH 4 days a week. At this rate, I'll have 30K on my car when the lease is up, while having paid for 45K
I take it that by using a 2.0-V6 or even a 2.0-V4, VCM can apply to just one bank of cylinders, in effect turning the engine into a 1.0-liter engine for highway use. I see some logic to that.

But for counter point, the purpose of VCM is make the operating pistons work harder and thereby require a larger throttle opening. That larger throttle opening is what reduces pumping losses and provides better fuel economy.

But here’s a cool thing about a turbo. Under light load they are still under VERY light boost. That light boost is enough to reduce pumping losses to near zero and increase engine efficiency. VCM really isn’t required on a turbo, at least a smaller displacement turbo.

With regard to your lease, remember that you can buy your Accord for the residual value based on 45,000 miles. With only 30,000 miles your car should be worth more. If trade-in value (based on 30,000 miles) is still greater than residual (based on 40,000 miles), you can exercise this option and recoup some of the overpayment. It depends on the exact numbers but could work for you.


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