No V6 for 2018 Accord. No word on CVT - Page 4 - Drive Accord Honda Forums
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post #46 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BenzAccord View Post
I can imagine that a 2.0L V6 with turbo and VCM will offer similar horsepower/torque/city MPG vs the 2.0 L I4, but with 10 - 15% better highway MPG.

One thing I'm certain of, is that I will not lease again. I leased my car with 15K miles a year and paid an extra $30 a month to do so thinking I'd be commuting 50 miles a day. A year into the lease, my job is now allowing me to WFH 4 days a week. At this rate, I'll have 30K on my car when the lease is up, while having paid for 45K
I take it that by using a 2.0-V6 or even a 2.0-V4, VCM can apply to just one bank of cylinders, in effect turning the engine into a 1.0-liter engine for highway use. I see some logic to that.

But for counter point, the purpose of VCM is make the operating pistons work harder and thereby require a larger throttle opening. That larger throttle opening is what reduces pumping losses and provides better fuel economy.

But here’s a cool thing about a turbo. Under light load they are still under VERY light boost. That light boost is enough to reduce pumping losses to near zero and increase engine efficiency. VCM really isn’t required on a turbo, at least a smaller displacement turbo.

With regard to your lease, remember that you can buy your Accord for the residual value based on 45,000 miles. With only 30,000 miles your car should be worth more. If trade-in value (based on 30,000 miles) is still greater than residual (based on 40,000 miles), you can exercise this option and recoup some of the overpayment. It depends on the exact numbers but could work for you.


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post #47 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 10:48 AM
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Question The new Honda turbo 4

I read a blurb from an article explaining the details on the new Honda turbo 4 cylinder. There was an electric motor or controller that was to keep the turbo spooled at all times. So turbo lag would not be a problem.

I will join the group of dissapointed Honda enthusiasts if the V6 disappears along with a manual transmission option in the 10th gen Accord !

Didn't Porsche bring back their manual transmissions after so many customers / former customers complained !

I recall the Acura RDX having a Turbo 4 when it 1st came out. Honda DROPPED it from the RDX after what 2 years !

One of the great things about buying my new 6-6 Coupe was that my 1997 Acura Integra insurance was actually a few dollars more per year than the 6-6 Coupe was !!! Talk about the value of the Accord as a grocery getter ... like a wolf in sheeps clothing ( in the 6-6 Coupes case ) !

If Flyboy was the Honda product manager he would be promoting the advantages of fully autonomous 2 cylinder CVT driven Accords as the ONLY Option !

I think Honda is smart enough to realize there are enough sales to justify keeping the manual transmission in its Accord line for the future. Since the birth of the Accord a manual transmission has been in the DNA ! What would they tell the people in Europe who drive manuals exclusively ?

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post #48 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 11:27 AM
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With regard to your lease, remember that you can buy your Accord for the residual value based on 45,000 miles. With only 30,000 miles your car should be worth more. If trade-in value (based on 30,000 miles) is still greater than residual (based on 40,000 miles), you can exercise this option and recoup some of the overpayment. It depends on the exact numbers but could work for you.
It works great if I end up keeping the car, which isn't off the table. If I were to flip it, I would still have to pay the sales tax on the residual value which probably kills any equity I would have. I don't think there is any way that I can sell the right to buy it to someone else, which would allow me to avoid paying the sales tax and having to title it in my name. I'd love to be wrong!

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post #49 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 11:36 AM
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You will never see a 2 liter V6. I expect that most car companies will standardize on a 500cc/cylinder model, or something around that, and you would get 3,4,6, or 8 of them in your car.
While true now, not guaranteed to be in the future. Engine displacements are going down and that trend is likely here to stay. BMW had a 530i briefly in the 90's that I seem to recall was a V8. They also had a Europe only 320i and 520i that was an inline 6.

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post #50 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 12:26 PM
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You will never see a 2 liter V6.
History time. It already exists! Honda offered a 2.0L turbo v6 as an option in Japan while the 2.7L (later found in the accords of the mid-90's) was standard.

See C20A:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_C_engine#C20A

See "wing turbo" version:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_...rbo.22_version
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post #51 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by optivity View Post
"No V6 for 2018 Accord. No word on CVT"

IMO the only thing worse than losing Honda's V6 engine would be to also drop their AT and pair a top-trim Accord (e.g. Touring) with a 4 cyl. turbo & a CVT.

If that happens sound a death knell for the Accord.


If you actually drove a Civic EX-T you'd realize that you were wrong. CVTs and turbos work very well together.
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post #52 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BenzAccord View Post
While true now, not guaranteed to be in the future. Engine displacements are going down and that trend is likely here to stay. BMW had a 530i briefly in the 90's that I seem to recall was a V8. They also had a Europe only 320i and 520i that was an inline 6.
I am talking cylider displacement. Engine sizes have been coming down because of fewer cylinders, not the same number of smaller cylinders.

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post #53 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 07:39 PM
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A lot of this is driven by increasingly more stringent EPA emissions and MPG standards. That being said, I will continue to search for NA larger displacement engines mated to manual transmissions. Unfortunately, no one will be making cars for me in the near future. Looks like I got my 6-6 just in time to stave off the need to accept the less exciting offerings to come. We performance enthusiasts are a dying breed and hardly anyone makes anything for us now and it will only get worse.

Guess I'd better hang onto this one (and my passengers better hang on too):

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post #54 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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You posted this on 11/12/16 and you said it's from "Autoweek 11/14/16"?


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He's probably referring to the 11/14/16 issue that he received before that date.
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post #55 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteOrchid View Post
A lot of this is driven by increasingly more stringent EPA emissions and MPG standards. That being said, I will continue to search for NA larger displacement engines mated to manual transmissions. Unfortunately, no one will be making cars for me in the near future. Looks like I got my 6-6 just in time to stave off the need to accept the less exciting offerings to come. We performance enthusiasts are a dying breed and hardly anyone makes anything for us now and it will only get worse.

Guess I'd better hang onto this one (and my passengers better hang on too):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL8gYsb5HO4
I bought my 2000 Accord V6 in October of 1999 and drove the car for 13 years and then gave it to my teen son who drove it until he got in a wreck last year and totaled the car. It had over 175,000 miles and the engine didn't use any oil between changes and ran perfectly. The big difference between my 2000 Accord coupe and my 2013 is 10 extra miles per gallon.

Hopefully, you don't get into an accident and total your car. Then you might have to replace it with a turbocharged I4 Accord mated to a CVT transmission. If you take care of your car you should be able to drive it for a very long time after the V6 engine and the manual transmission become antiques.

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post #56 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 09:31 PM
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There is no-way Honda will build an Accord that requires premium fuel. Honda would lose their target audience: the middle income buyer; if they released "any" vehicle in their line that requires premium fuel.
You are right. Honda engines will be made to, at most, take advantage of high octane. It will never be a requirement because of its target market.

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Originally Posted by WhiteOrchid View Post
A lot of this is driven by increasingly more stringent EPA emissions and MPG standards. That being said, I will continue to search for NA larger displacement engines mated to manual transmissions. Unfortunately, no one will be making cars for me in the near future. Looks like I got my 6-6 just in time to stave off the need to accept the less exciting offerings to come. We performance enthusiasts are a dying breed and hardly anyone makes anything for us now and it will only get worse.

Guess I'd better hang onto this one (and my passengers better hang on too):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL8gYsb5HO4
I mean, ultimately, we are gonna end up with electric cars like Tesla. Our future is gonna be cool and advanced, yet really boring.

Gears are non-existent on an electric car because you get more than 90% of the torque from the electric motor when you step on the... eh... "gas" pedal. So no gear shifting at all. No oil changes or transmission fluid changes for electric cars, either.

When we become older, we are all gonna be like "back in our days, we have to change oil and transmission fluid", and all the young people will be like WTF...

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post #57 of 625 Old 11-15-2016, 10:12 PM
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You are right. Honda engines will be made to, at most, take advantage of high octane. It will never be a requirement because of its target market.

I mean, ultimately, we are gonna end up with electric cars like Tesla. Our future is gonna be cool and advanced, yet really boring.

Gears are non-existent on an electric car because you get more than 90% of the torque from the electric motor when you step on the... eh... "gas" pedal. So no gear shifting at all. No oil changes or transmission fluid changes for electric cars, either.

When we become older, we are all gonna be like "back in our days, we have to change oil and transmission fluid", and all the young people will be like WTF...

EVs as they stand now can never be track cars and consequently they are not real sports cars either. The repeated acceleration/deceleration overheats the batteries and they go into limp mode. Several publications have tried running Teslas at road course and because of this, they run lap times at best like a sport compact car.

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post #58 of 625 Old 11-16-2016, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slowly View Post
History time. It already exists! Honda offered a 2.0L turbo v6 as an option in Japan while the 2.7L (later found in the accords of the mid-90's) was standard.

See C20A:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_C_engine#C20A

See "wing turbo" version:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_...rbo.22_version
The C was made from 1985-2005.

I stick with my view that you will see standardized cylinder size from here on out.

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post #59 of 625 Old 11-16-2016, 04:47 AM
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EVs as they stand now can never be track cars and consequently they are not real sports cars either. The repeated acceleration/deceleration overheats the batteries and they go into limp mode. Several publications have tried running Teslas at road course and because of this, they run lap times at best like a sport compact car.
When it comes to "sports" cars I don't think the internal combustion engine will completely disappear. Hybrid electric cars similar to the new Acura NSX will become common. Unfortunately, the younger generation are not car crazy like the boomer generation was in the 1960s. Kids today are tech crazy. My 19 year old son wasn't all that interested in learning to drive at 16 but we didn't want to have to drive to and from his part time job. I imagine the average age of subscribers to R&T or C&D is close to retirement age. How many pop or rock songs today are about cars? In my youth there were several which were very popular.

There will always be a small segment of the population that are car people. Those are folks that will buy sports cars, attend car shows and modify their vehicles. There small numbers will make it difficult for the manufactures to produce even sporty cars.

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post #60 of 625 Old 11-16-2016, 07:18 AM
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The C was made from 1985-2005.

I stick with my view that you will see standardized cylinder size from here on out.
Yea, I agree with your general point. If turbos catch on displacement will go down. Honda's bet the farm on turbos, so I guess I have to root for them. It's been suggested that we've been living in a "golden age" of cars for the past ten years. That future regulations would put a lid on high output engines. That might be true. But quiet automotive revolutions like the modern fuel injector and the forthcoming variable compression ratio engine give me hope.

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When it comes to "sports" cars I don't think the internal combustion engine will completely disappear. Hybrid electric cars similar to the new Acura NSX will become common. Unfortunately, the younger generation are not car crazy like the boomer generation was in the 1960s. Kids today are tech crazy. My 19 year old son wasn't all that interested in learning to drive at 16 but we didn't want to have to drive to and from his part time job. I imagine the average age of subscribers to R&T or C&D is close to retirement age. How many pop or rock songs today are about cars? In my youth there were several which were very popular.

There will always be a small segment of the population that are car people. Those are folks that will buy sports cars, attend car shows and modify their vehicles. There small numbers will make it difficult for the manufactures to produce even sporty cars.
I don't think it's that young people have lost interest. They can't afford a car. They certainly can't afford a car worth having. The economy over the last ten years has made the youngest generation conservative spenders. It's a part of their very being. They move to the city and don't own a car. When the economy recovers, the youngest batch of kids will learn to spend wastefully on cars and will yearn to live in the suburbs, once again.

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