No V6 for 2018 Accord. No word on CVT - Page 5 - Drive Accord Honda Forums
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post #61 of 421 Old 11-16-2016, 07:59 AM
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New Civic Si get a Turbo 4 cylinder

Released info yesterday says the new Civic Si will have a 1.5L Turbo 4 cylinder but no statement on Horse Power. With the Accord as the flagship model we can hope they don't kill the 3.5 !

2017 Honda Civic Si fills the performance gap between Sport and Type R - Autoblog


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post #62 of 421 Old 11-16-2016, 10:09 AM
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I have a 2016 Accord ExL V6-6 and I LOVE IT. To be able to get that extra push when needed on the highway. It is a joy to drive and so very glad I bought it. It is as much a race car as I will ever have but so much more fun than just transportation to and from. At least if Honda does discontinue the V6 Manual I know I will be able to sell it.

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post #63 of 421 Old 11-16-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by shifting myself View Post
Released info yesterday says the new Civic Si will have a 1.5L Turbo 4 cylinder but no statement on Horse Power. With the Accord as the flagship model we can hope they don't kill the 3.5 !

2017 Honda Civic Si fills the performance gap between Sport and Type R - Autoblog
@Baldeagle, it says LSD along with the 6MT. My second maxima had LSD, and it was awesome. Not strictly from a performance aspect either. I was able to get that car to move in 6 inches of unplowed snow. I drove it 8 miles in an ice storm while every other 2WD car couldn't move without going sideways. (The wheels look like 19-20 inch though, I was hoping for smaller) I'm gonna have to see this car!

2007 Accord LX-SE 4d 5spd MT Graphite Pearl (was his, now son's)
2015 Accord EX-L V6 4d AT Crystal Black Pearl/Ivory (His)
2015 Accord EX-L V6 4d AT White Orchid Pearl/Ivory (Hers)


Previous Rides
1993 Buick Regal 3.8
1992 Acura Legend LS 4D 5MT
1992 Nissan Maxima SE 4AT
1986 Nissan Maxima SE 5MT
1981 Saab 900 Turbo 4D 3AT "The money pit" $5K+ in repairs in 2 years
1976 Volvo 242DL 3AT "The Vault"
1976 Toyota Corona 4D 3AT "The Oven" black vinyl interior and no A/C
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post #64 of 421 Old 11-16-2016, 02:59 PM
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Look outside your North American box and you'll see Honda selling in Europe and elsewhere a Civic Type r with a 2.0 Turbo popping over 300hp.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review
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post #65 of 421 Old 11-16-2016, 03:30 PM
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I just wanted to say that I am blessed in that I get to drive some of the best cars in the world on tracks at least once a year.

The Tesla P90D in Ludicrous mode was anything but boring. Granted, I did not do more than three passes from 0-60 and 0-100 mph, but I have NEVER accelerated in anything like that other than a check ride in an F-4 Phantom.

Any of you ever ride a Yamaha V-Max motorcycle? Yeah, it's like that except you are listening to music and sitting in a nice cabin.

Carry on....to the future!
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post #66 of 421 Old 11-16-2016, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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I just wanted to say that I am blessed in that I get to drive some of the best cars in the world on tracks at least once a year.

The Tesla P90D in Ludicrous mode was anything but boring. Granted, I did not do more than three passes from 0-60 and 0-100 mph, but I have NEVER accelerated in anything like that other than a check ride in an F-4 Phantom.

Any of you ever ride a Yamaha V-Max motorcycle? Yeah, it's like that except you are listening to music and sitting in a nice cabin.

Carry on....to the future!
My brother has a P90D Ludicrous and it is Ludicrous. I've driven fast cars but the instant torque at 0 RPM and dead silence of the Tesla combines to give an acceleration experience like none other.

No matter how nice the Accord turbo is, there is no substitute for cubic inches. Numbers for the top turbo may even be better than the V6 but the driving experience will be very different.

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post #67 of 421 Old 11-17-2016, 07:28 AM
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My brother has a P90D Ludicrous and it is Ludicrous. I've driven fast cars but the instant torque at 0 RPM and dead silence of the Tesla combines to give an acceleration experience like none other.

No matter how nice the Accord turbo is, there is no substitute for cubic inches. Numbers for the top turbo may even be better than the V6 but the driving experience will be very different.
If the turbo delivers more torque lower down the rev range, the driving experience will be better.

The old 'no replacement for displacement' is based upon the fact that when you can put more air in the cylinders, you can light more fuel and get more power. The more displacement, the more air can get in.

A turbo gets more air in, so, the replacement for displacement is supercharging, whether by turbo or mechanical supercharging.
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post #68 of 421 Old 11-17-2016, 07:46 AM
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I am talking cylider displacement. Engine sizes have been coming down because of fewer cylinders, not the same number of smaller cylinders.
You'd be right for the most part, but one can find a couple of examples to the contrary

VW makes a 1.4L Inline 4 (Jetta). That's .35L per cylinder and you can make a 2.1L V6 out of 6 of those.
Even the civic's 1.5L Inline 4 (.375L per cylinder) would translate to a 2.25L V6.

2007 Accord LX-SE 4d 5spd MT Graphite Pearl (was his, now son's)
2015 Accord EX-L V6 4d AT Crystal Black Pearl/Ivory (His)
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1992 Nissan Maxima SE 4AT
1986 Nissan Maxima SE 5MT
1981 Saab 900 Turbo 4D 3AT "The money pit" $5K+ in repairs in 2 years
1976 Volvo 242DL 3AT "The Vault"
1976 Toyota Corona 4D 3AT "The Oven" black vinyl interior and no A/C
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post #69 of 421 Old 11-17-2016, 08:16 AM
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You'd be right for the most part, but one can find a couple of examples to the contrary

VW makes a 1.4L Inline 4 (Jetta). That's .35L per cylinder and you can make a 2.1L V6 out of 6 of those.
Even the civic's 1.5L Inline 4 (.375L per cylinder) would translate to a 2.25L V6.
Yes, they certainly can. The question in my mind is whether VW/Audi would, in new engine applications, standardize on .5L, and make 1.5, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, and maybe 6.0 engines, like BMW is doing, and, it appears, like MB is doing.

Standardizing engine cylinder displacement around the world seems to me the direction these companies are headed, as they move production around the world. There also seems to be a trend in standardizing many other auto parts, like the CLAR initiative at BMW.

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post #70 of 421 Old 11-17-2016, 08:39 AM
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Standardizing engine cylinder displacement around the world seems to me the direction these companies are headed, as they move production around the world. There also seems to be a trend in standardizing many other auto parts, like the CLAR initiative at BMW.
Just remember: POSIX UNIX "is not" truly portable.
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post #71 of 421 Old 11-17-2016, 11:49 AM
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EVs as they stand now can never be track cars and consequently they are not real sports cars either. The repeated acceleration/deceleration overheats the batteries and they go into limp mode. Several publications have tried running Teslas at road course and because of this, they run lap times at best like a sport compact car.
BEVs are new so maybe in generation three or four, engineers will have solve that issue. I don't track but I can imagine how fun it would be for many drivers.

I just ignore all the articles on insideevs which describe how the Model S beat this car in straight line acceleration. I don't over-speed (might stay on the left lane and follow the flow of traffic when I get my EV in 2018/19/20) and I would rather have a nimbler car but then those batteries add to much to the EV's weight.

At least CG is much lower, haha.
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post #72 of 421 Old 11-17-2016, 09:56 PM
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If Flyboy was the Honda product manager he would be promoting the advantages of fully autonomous 2 cylinder CVT driven Accords as the ONLY Option !
So true

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post #73 of 421 Old 11-18-2016, 05:18 AM
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The only place I need speed is freeway entrance ramps and passing on 2 lane highways. The 4 cyl CVT is plenty for that. A V6 would just mean speeding tickets for me. I am not a fan of turbo lag and jerky driving that the X5d I drove had. Hopefully Honda will pleasantly surprise us all.

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post #74 of 421 Old 11-18-2016, 05:32 AM
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In the end this is all about a forced compromise. Under light load a 2.0 turbo will consume about the same fuel as a naturally aspirated 2.0 engine, much better than a 3.5-liter V6. Under moderate load it will consume about the same fuel as a 3.5-liter V6. Under heavy load it will consume more fuel than a 3.5-liter V6. Depending on how you drive a 2.0-turbo can deliver much better to slightly worse fuel economy than a 3.5-liter V6. The need for premium fuel would of course change the total fuel cost.

Because of turbo lag, turbos lack crisp throttle response. I find that most noticeable on the highway when attempting to maintain lane position. However after that lag and the turbo is spooled there is much less need to downshift (in a MT) to accelerate. Turbos have very usable low end power.

For me, I typically reserve using my "V6 power" for entering a highway, exiting a tollbooth or passing a car on a two lane road. As long as I can anticipate my need for power by a second or more, a turbo works very well in those circumstances. Turbos are not great for drag racing, but my days of street racing ended 25 years ago. To be candid, with the traction problems inherent to FWD cars, my 6-6 is terrible off the line anyway.

With a MT I definitely prefer a N/A engine to a turbo. With a turbo, you lose boost with each shift and experience a little turbo lag after engaging the next gear. Is that horrible? No. But it is still not desirable. There is an upside however – smoother shifts. Once boost drops there is less torque on the clutch which allows everything to connect easier and more smoothly.

I am a very Jekyll and Hyde driver. I am either very easy on my car or drive it flat-out floored. Not much middle ground. But that driving style in my environment yields an average of 28-29 mpg in my 6-6. I bet with a turbo/6MT combination I could get very similar fuel economy to the current 2.4-6MT, 35+mpg. That improvement in fuel economy should be worth the turbo lag between shifts provided the "highway" pull is the same.

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post #75 of 421 Old 11-18-2016, 06:02 AM
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IMO most individuals (at least myself) who drive a V6 Accord w/AT, a V6 Pilot, are not "primarily" concerned w/fuel economy. It's more about performance & comfort a V6 delivers vs. a 4 cyl. engine.

No matter how the marketeers spin it, there is no way driving a vehicle equipped w/a 4 cyl., is as satisfying as operating one equipped with a V6.

The world is awash w/oil and fuel prices should remain stable for many years to come.

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