2018 Competitor: New Toyota Camry has V6, maybe new Accord too? - Page 2 - Drive Accord Honda Forums
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post #16 of 248 Old 01-09-2017, 04:20 PM
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{snip} 10 speed automatics = unreal. Is that not trying to break into CVT territory without actually using a CVT? {snip}
No. The 10-speed will be a more capable transmission in two respects.

The 10-speed offers a greater ratio spread than the current CVT, and this translates into shorter gears for better acceleration and taller gears for fuel economy.

Plus, the 10-speed has a much higher torque capacity for a given space than the CVT.

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post #17 of 248 Old 01-09-2017, 05:04 PM
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I think it looks pretty good.

10 speed. It's not just for bicycles anymore.

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post #18 of 248 Old 01-09-2017, 05:06 PM
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For a second I thought I was looking at a KIA Optima.

This might explain why Toyota is offering such big discounts on Camrys right now. If the Camry is good and Honda goes all in on Turbos it could be bad for one of them. Lets see how Honda handles this.
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post #19 of 248 Old 01-09-2017, 05:51 PM
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I was considering going after a leftover '17 Touring, since I love my '14 EX-L V6 so much. After seeing the new Camry with its V6 option, I don't feel the need to settle for Honda technology that is essentially 5 years old when I can own a brand new Camry XLE V6 whenever I'm ready. If Honda surprises us and keeps the V6, then that changes the story for me.
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post #20 of 248 Old 01-09-2017, 06:59 PM
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I was considering going after a leftover '17 Touring, since I love my '14 EX-L V6 so much. After seeing the new Camry with its V6 option, I don't feel the need to settle for Honda technology that is essentially 5 years old when I can own a brand new Camry XLE V6 whenever I'm ready. If Honda surprises us and keeps the V6, then that changes the story for me.
Same here. I was thinking about the left over 2017 Accord EX-L's if Honda drops the V6 for 2018. But now that Toyota releases this, my whole game plan changes. It's hard to ignore Toyota. I have always thought Camry's were decent but this 2018 model might just push me over the edge and convince me to get it to replace my decade old, 2007 Honda Accord.

Gotta love company competitions.

I might just jump ship when I buy a new car this year. The card is in your hands, Honda.
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post #21 of 248 Old 01-09-2017, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
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No. The 10-speed will be a more capable transmission in two respects.

The 10-speed offers a greater ratio spread than the current CVT, and this translates into shorter gears for better acceleration and taller gears for fuel economy.

Plus, the 10-speed has a much higher torque capacity for a given space than the CVT.
Well, if you look at how auto trannies work, you will realize that a 10-speed(+reverse, obviously) planetary gear auto is a very complicated system... Not likely to happen on cars like Accords or Camry.

Heck, even the new Mustangs come with an 8-speed auto. Best I have seen on a passenger car is a Fiat with 9-speed auto. I know the F150 is equipped with a 10-speed auto, but a truck is more expensive, and their purpose demands an auto tranny with more gears.

You also have to think about the semi-auto mode. I wouldn't expect anyone to drive a 10-speed manual car unless you drive a semi-truck.

Anyways, it makes me appreciate my current Accord more. There are a handful of mid-size FWD family cars out there, but Accord is the only one that still offers a Coupe body style. So I don't even have to choose. Sorry, no matter how good the Camry V6 is, it has 4 doors. It won't look as good as a 2-door Accord Coupe, ever.

This is just how it works for me, but I am sure most people don't care about the Coupes anyways...

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post #22 of 248 Old 01-09-2017, 09:45 PM
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Same here. I was thinking about the left over 2017 Accord EX-L's if Honda drops the V6 for 2018. But now that Toyota releases this, my whole game plan changes. It's hard to ignore Toyota. I have always thought Camry's were decent but this 2018 model might just push me over the edge and convince me to get it to replace my decade old, 2007 Honda Accord.

Gotta love company competitions.

I might just jump ship when I buy a new car this year. The card is in your hands, Honda.
Panoramic moonroof, HUD display, quad exhausts, stiffer chassis, JBL Audio in addition to almost 300 hp. Hmm, unless the Accord takes the upgraded infotainment system and panoramic moonroof from the new Odyessy, greatly improves the audio system/sound isolation, includes DI V6, and has an attractive exterior,,,its a wrap.
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post #23 of 248 Old 01-09-2017, 11:11 PM
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The ONLY thing about this new Camry that interests me is the interior, it actually looks really upscale inside, looks like they are going to give it an Avalon feel. But I still would have to go inside this new Camry to see if interior quality is good. The last time a Camry had a better interior than the Accord was the 4th gen (1997-2001) all the Camrys after that have been trash.
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post #24 of 248 Old 01-09-2017, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AccordULEV View Post
Anyone remember the days of 4 spd autos...or even 3 spd autos?

10 speed automatics = unreal. Is that not trying to break into CVT territory without actually using a CVT?

Back to the point - I might shed a small tear if Honda dropped the V6 in the Accord. It's such an amazing engine. Aside from the choppy suspension, there is nothing I dislike about my Accord and the V6/6AT is the shining point of it.

Wonder if Honda might go the direction of say...Hyundai or Kia? Well I'm too lazy to look it up but I thought I remembered the Sonata or Optima having an I4 NA, V6 and then a I4 turbo option on one or the other.

IF Honda were going the route of dropping a turbo I4 into the Accord, do y'all think it would have enough to outrun the V6?

Are there Honda turbo I4 platforms already in production that might get transplanted into the Accord? I'm not super familiar with Honda's history...
If the Accord goes 1.5T and 2.0T they would be following the path of a Chevrolet Malibu. At which point I would just shake my head after thinking Honda got their act together with the 10th gen Civic.

Of course, Acura is another story...

6 AT is about the limit of what is necessary and I'd argue that even that is probably excessive. Just marketing wooo, we have an 11 AT in our car! Oh yeah? Well we have a 12 speed auto in ours! LOL

4 speed ATs do just fine, just "journalists" who complain that its "low" tech.

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post #25 of 248 Old 01-09-2017, 11:39 PM
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The interior instantly reminded me of the Supra with the dashboard canted toward the driver.


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post #26 of 248 Old 01-10-2017, 12:30 AM
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I'm new to Turbo Honda scene(not that I have a turbo Accord the way I worded that), how does reliability work out. The 1.5T in the Malibu are already starting to follow the 2.0T ATS and 1.4T Cruze piston issues. The issue with turbos is larger = lag and and smaller is nice seamless low end but makes for a lesser MPG efficient number. Once you semi max out the smaller turbo you find yourself on the MPG hit harder than a larger comparable N/A. The perks of a factory turbo is tuned they can literally be the best no tools needed mod ever and aftermarket you can almost drop a new one on with minimal modification to existing stuff.

If you ignore all that I said above, the sound of turbo 4 in stock form will never be as great as the V6. The sound the 2.0T in the ATS makes cheapens the car quite a bit. The 1.4T in my Cruze sounded way better and less miserable in life than it. I was able to live with the I4 in the Accord as it doesn't sound like it cheapens the elegance of the car and it's not "Hold On, Not Done Accelerating" like at all. It's not a 10 second car but a 6th to 4th 6mt downshift produces a nice rewarding pick up and go. I didn't bother trying the V6 out as it's to much tech I didn't want and auto only in the sedan.

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post #27 of 248 Old 01-10-2017, 04:02 AM
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I think the real improvement in the Camry will be the double wishbone suspension. Although it's a small difference my old 2000 Accord Coupe had slightly better driving dynamics than my 2013 with the McPherson struts. The last Camry I drove, a rental, drove very much like a 1980s Buick.

I don't think the V6 or the geared transmission will make that much of sales impact on Accord without the V6. The vast majority of buyers don't have a clue what's under the hood or how many gears are in the transmission they want styling, fuel economy, hi tech features and price. Oh, they also want lots of cup holders.

The old two and three speed automatics didn't work well in small displacement engines of the time because they had very small torque bands that peaked at high RPM. When I purchased my first Accord in 1980 I test drove one with an automatic and it was terrible compared to the 5 speed manual that I bought. The CVCC engine only had 85 HP. Those old automatics worked best with large displacement six and eight cylinder American type engines. They didn't rev very high but delivered torque over a wide RPM band.

The members of this forum are a very small segment of the car buying public. Car enthusiasts are a dying breed.
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post #28 of 248 Old 01-10-2017, 05:02 AM
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I always keep current with what cars are out there, and keep an open mind while in the information gathering stage. While the last Toyota I bought was a 1976 Celica GT, I will consider all cars, including the Camry, for my next one. The last bunch of Camrys were mush to drive, and the Altimas always felt a generation behind the Accords, so Accords it was.

Cars are getting better and more advanced practically every year, and are such a moving target that I can't say definitely not this, but that.

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post #29 of 248 Old 01-10-2017, 06:53 AM
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For a second I thought I was looking at a KIA Optima.

This might explain why Toyota is offering such big discounts on Camrys right now. If the Camry is good and Honda goes all in on Turbos it could be bad for one of them. Lets see how Honda handles this.
It may be Honda just doesn't care much about losing it's V6 buying segment. There are a number of fairly large Honda dealers in my area and their new car inventory is usually 30:1 EX Accords vs. Touring models.

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I think the real improvement in the Camry will be the double wishbone suspension. Although it's a small difference my old 2000 Accord Coupe had slightly better driving dynamics than my 2013 with the McPherson struts. The last Camry I drove, a rental, drove very much like a 1980s Buick.
My impression was the same the last time I drove a Camry. It felt like I was riding on a couch w/little or no road-feel to the steering wheel. If Toyota combined a V6 engine with a better suspension they may have a winner. IMO the Camry certainly looks nice enough to consider buying.
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post #30 of 248 Old 01-10-2017, 12:06 PM
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It seems to me that each generation Honda changes their vehicles more and more to appeal to people who don’t know cars. CVT? 8-speeds? 10-speeds? Turbos? Most Honda owners don’t know or care.

For those who were attracted to Honda for their V6 engines, reliability and semi-fun personality the Camry may be their next car. We all criticize the Camry for being boring, but the SE and XLE versions come with sport tuned suspension (stiffer springs and shocks). You can also get a Camry with dedicated sport seats. That version of the car may not boring. Only time will tell but for those family-car semi-enthusiasts, on paper a ≈295hp V6 Sedan with a sport suspension sounds much better than a basic Accord with a ≈235hp 2.0 turbo engine.

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