2018 Competitor: New Toyota Camry has V6, maybe new Accord too? - Page 3 - Drive Accord Honda Forums
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post #31 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 04:12 PM
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I love my 2013 Accord Touring. But after seeing the 2018 Camry, all I can think is...

The...Accord...is...in...BIG...trouble.

Unless Honda keeps the V6 and adds AWD to the Accord, the Camry is going to crush it.

I'm a huge Accord fan, but, sad to say, I don't think the next Accord is going to live up to the new Camry. I think the Camry will beat it in styling (interior and exterior), features, and probably price.

Honda needs to keep the V6. They need to add AWD as an option for the Accord. Put in a color HUD. Go full customizable LCD instrumentation. Put in a REAL premium audio system made by a quality manufacturer. Get rid of the gimmicky LaneWatch and institute a real blind spot monitoring system across the line.

But Honda ain't gonna do all (any?) of that.

Toyota nailed it. And I'm saying that as a hardcore Accord fan.

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post #32 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by zhelder View Post
I love my 2013 Accord Touring. But after seeing the 2018 Camry, all I can think is...

The...Accord...is...in...BIG...trouble.

Unless Honda keeps the V6 and adds AWD to the Accord, the Camry is going to crush it.

I'm a huge Accord fan, but, sad to say, I don't think the next Accord is going to live up to the new Camry. I think the Camry will beat it in styling (interior and exterior), features, and probably price.

Honda needs to keep the V6. They need to add AWD as an option for the Accord. Put in a color HUD. Go full customizable LCD instrumentation. Put in a REAL premium audio system made by a quality manufacturer. Get rid of the gimmicky LaneWatch and institute a real blind spot monitoring system across the line.

But Honda ain't gonna do all (any?) of that.

Toyota nailed it. And I'm saying that as a hardcore Accord fan.
For a Sedan, I like Camry's design. At where I live, standard size taxis are mainly Toyota Priuses and Camrys. Must be a good reason behind this. I was actually looking for a Toyota car before purchasing my Accord. I guess I am just the oddball in the sense that I am the only person who would buy an Accord no matter what just because of the Accord Coupes, but most Accord Coupe owners are willing to jump ship if Camrys turn out to be superior to Accords to them.

I would love to see them keeping the V6. It's gonna be disappointing if V6 Accord Coupes become nothing but a history. I suppose the other stuff you said would be nice as well.

The only thing I doubt Accords will have is AWD. I don't think many non-luxury mid-size Sedans offer an AWD version. It makes the car heavier and, as a result, hurts the MPG. I also don't think there is gonna be enough people buying AWD non-luxury mid-size Sedans, but I could be wrong. In my impression, only luxury Sedans, SUVs and sports cars get AWD drivetrains.


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post #33 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 06:08 PM
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Anyone remember the days of 4 spd autos...or even 3 spd autos?
Probably dating myself, but my first 2-door Accord had a semi-automatic transmission. You had to start in first and shift (no clutch) into Drive at ~5 mph. Pokey, but I loved that ole blue car..!
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post #34 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 06:09 PM
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For a Sedan, I like Camry's design. At where I live, standard size taxis are mainly Toyota Priuses and Camrys. Must be a good reason behind this. I was actually looking for a Toyota car before purchasing my Accord. I guess I am just the oddball in the sense that I am the only person who would buy an Accord no matter what just because of the Accord Coupes, but most Accord Coupe owners are willing to jump ship if Camrys turn out to be superior to Accords to them.

I would love to see them keeping the V6. It's gonna be disappointing if V6 Accord Coupes become nothing but a history. I suppose the other stuff you said would be nice as well.

The only thing I doubt Accords will have is AWD. I don't think many non-luxury mid-size Sedans offer an AWD version. It makes the car heavier and, as a result, hurts the MPG. I also don't think there is gonna be enough people buying AWD non-luxury mid-size Sedans, but I could be wrong. In my impression, only luxury Sedans, SUVs and sports cars get AWD drivetrains.
Toyota focuses on longevity. That is they typically lag behind the competition in terms of new tech. Toyota sticks with proven reliable (if a little old) stuff. Those Prius and Camrys can probably go 300k - 400k. Hondas are still pretty good but Toyotas will generally last longer and cost less to maintain.

I test drove a Lexus ES350 but it had so little road feel, nope I couldn't take it. Maybe the new one will be better. A GS or IS would have been more interesting but I didn't want to pay that much.
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post #35 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 06:46 PM
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You can't tell me a Toyota will cost less than a Honda to maintain. Nothing has cost less than my Accords to maintain. I've had 2006, two 2008's, and a 2009 (V6 and i4) all go over 125k with NOTHING except oil changes.(only reason they're gone is due to being totaled) My 2009 V6 coupe is still nothing but oil changes every 10k miles, I'm right about 125k on it now. Original timing belt and everything.
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post #36 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by zhelder View Post
I love my 2013 Accord Touring. But after seeing the 2018 Camry, all I can think is...

The...Accord...is...in...BIG...trouble.

Unless Honda keeps the V6 and adds AWD to the Accord, the Camry is going to crush it.

I'm a huge Accord fan, but, sad to say, I don't think the next Accord is going to live up to the new Camry. I think the Camry will beat it in styling (interior and exterior), features, and probably price.

Honda needs to keep the V6. They need to add AWD as an option for the Accord. Put in a color HUD. Go full customizable LCD instrumentation. Put in a REAL premium audio system made by a quality manufacturer. Get rid of the gimmicky LaneWatch and institute a real blind spot monitoring system across the line.

But Honda ain't gonna do all (any?) of that.

Toyota nailed it. And I'm saying that as a hardcore Accord fan.
You already killed the upcoming Accord even though you have no information on the new car including features, styling, engines, etc. We now have an idea of what the next Camry is going to be and so does Honda so I'm sure they will take that into consideration while adding some final touches to the 2018 model even though production on this car has been going on for several years now. (Usually Honda starts developing the next generation right after a new gen debuts). I don't really see what you like about the Camry, the styling is nothing special it looks too busy. The only nice thing about this car is the interior even though that's just from the pictures you would still have to go inside the car to see for yourself if interior quality is good or not. Most of the people from Toyota Nation aren't too crazy about the new Camry, they think the current Camry looks cleaner and I agree with them.

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For a Sedan, I like Camry's design. At where I live, standard size taxis are mainly Toyota Priuses and Camrys. Must be a good reason behind this. I was actually looking for a Toyota car before purchasing my Accord. I guess I am just the oddball in the sense that I am the only person who would buy an Accord no matter what just because of the Accord Coupes, but most Accord Coupe owners are willing to jump ship if Camrys turn out to be superior to Accords to them.

I would love to see them keeping the V6. It's gonna be disappointing if V6 Accord Coupes become nothing but a history. I suppose the other stuff you said would be nice as well.

The only thing I doubt Accords will have is AWD. I don't think many non-luxury mid-size Sedans offer an AWD version. It makes the car heavier and, as a result, hurts the MPG. I also don't think there is gonna be enough people buying AWD non-luxury mid-size Sedans, but I could be wrong. In my impression, only luxury Sedans, SUVs and sports cars get AWD drivetrains.
Toyota focuses on longevity. That is they typically lag behind the competition in terms of new tech. Toyota sticks with proven reliable (if a little old) stuff. Those Prius and Camrys can probably go 300k - 400k. Hondas are still pretty good but Toyotas will generally last longer and cost less to maintain.

I test drove a Lexus ES350 but it had so little road feel, nope I couldn't take it. Maybe the new one will be better. A GS or IS would have been more interesting but I didn't want to pay that much.
Toyota focuses on longevity? What does Honda focus on then? Toyota's are not as reliable as they used to be, their reputation has gone down significantly since the 2000's and it hasn't become any better. The last "good" Camry was the 2001 model, the rest have been trash since then. Maintaining a Toyota is actually more expensive than a Honda because Toyota parts cost more $$ compared to Honda parts. When it comes to reliability and longevity both Toyota and Honda are equal, I don't see one brand being more reliable than the other. They both have had their ups and downs in reliability over the years, Honda with its transmissions and Toyota with sludge issues and other things. It's really unfair to say Toyota is more reliable than Honda because that's just not true at all, they are both well known well regarded Japanese brands that have competed against each other for many years (the sole reason why Camry ever came into existence was to directly compete against the Accord). Please don't confuse Honda with some shitty american or korean car company...

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post #37 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 09:49 PM
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You already killed the upcoming Accord even though you have no information on the new car including features, styling, engines, etc. We now have an idea of what the next Camry is going to be and so does Honda so I'm sure they will take that into consideration while adding some final touches to the 2018 model even though production on this car has been going on for several years now. (Usually Honda starts developing the next generation right after a new gen debuts). I don't really see what you like about the Camry, the styling is nothing special it looks too busy. The only nice thing about this car is the interior even though that's just from the pictures you would still have to go inside the car to see for yourself if interior quality is good or not. Most of the people from Toyota Nation aren't too crazy about the new Camry, they think the current Camry looks cleaner and I agree with them.
I think you can come up with a pretty good picture about most of the features of the next Accord just by looking at the new CRV and Odyssey. Expect a touring trim to have traditional blind spot monitoring, improved LED headlights and full led rears, similar infotainment center as the Odyssey, and a turbo 2.0 producing greater than 270 ft/lbs of torque. It won't, however, offer HUD display, panoramic moonroof, auto dimming side mirrors or ventilated fronts seats and passenger seat height adjustment. If I am wrong and it has 90% of these features, then it would be another win for Honda. BTW,this isn't a Camry for the current Toyota Nation, it is a Camry for everyone else:-)
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post #38 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 09:51 PM
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I bet Honda executives are shitting bricks right now after seeing the 2018 Camry. I am a decade long Honda owner but the new Camry looks dam good, especially the white XSE with panoramic black moonroof. Not to mention Toyota's new CEO's promise to bring passion and style back to Toyota like the Supra days.


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post #39 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 10:23 PM
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I'd say relax folks, neither of these cars are even out yet.

I would not be able to make a decision without a test drive and actually sitting in the vehicle. If we want a hint about how a 1.5T would do in a 2018 Accord, go test drive a 2017 CRV. You can do a back to back test with a 2017 with the K24. JeffX at tov has a nice write up on the new CRV. Personally, I think Honda might be making a mistake on the CRV but I'm not an SUV/CUV buyer so that's all I'm going to say.
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post #40 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 10:55 PM
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Toyota focuses on longevity? What does Honda focus on then? Toyota's are not as reliable as they used to be, their reputation has gone down significantly since the 2000's and it hasn't become any better. The last "good" Camry was the 2001 model, the rest have been trash since then. Maintaining a Toyota is actually more expensive than a Honda because Toyota parts cost more $$ compared to Honda parts. When it comes to reliability and longevity both Toyota and Honda are equal, I don't see one brand being more reliable than the other. They both have had their ups and downs in reliability over the years, Honda with its transmissions and Toyota with sludge issues and other things. It's really unfair to say Toyota is more reliable than Honda because that's just not true at all, they are both well known well regarded Japanese brands that have competed against each other for many years (the sole reason why Camry ever came into existence was to directly compete against the Accord). Please don't confuse Honda with some shitty american or korean car company...
I would say that @Inspire02's words aren't groundless.

As I have said, the standard size taxis in BC, Canada are Toyota Priuses and Camrys(I4s, obviously). Even the bigger ones are Toyotas. As for Corollas, I know a lot of driving schools in BC that use them, including the one I went to. Civics were also used for driving schools, but not as much as Corollas. When industries like taxis and driving schools where mileage racks up quickly, I think it shows that Toyota cars are built for longevity. When I had to take taxis, the drivers I talked to have praised Priuses highly, and Toyota in general as well. They told me that on average, they travel 600 km(~375 miles) in them every day. And these cars don't take breaks except for necessary maintenance; as soon as one driver's shift is over, another driver immediately takes their place. They still last for years, and some taxi drivers buy retired Toyota taxis for personal uses afterward, which they can still get a lot of uses out of.

Maintenance cost-wise, I don't see them as too different. Toyota parts may be more expensive, but Toyota cars aren't very picky on fluids. For example, the PS fluid on a Toyota car is probably just the AT fluid like most other cars out there. Not Hondas; they need a special Honda PS fluid, which is formulated differently, so if you use other PS fluid, you can potentially damage the steering system in your Honda.

BTW, don't just crap on Korean cars. Some of them are not bad. My manager has a 2000 Hyundai Accent with MT, and that car runs pretty well, according to him. He initially thought Hyundai was just a ripoff Honda(see explanation below), but he is actually impressed by the car. He is not the most serious about maintenance, either, and that car still runs without any problems.

On an off-topic note, Hyundai means modern in Korean, and is recognized as the brand Modern in China; Honda is named after Soichiro Honda, the founder of Honda, and is pronounced differently in Japanese, so the similarity of Hyundai and Honda is just an unfortunate coincidence in the English language.

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I've had 2006, two 2008's, and a 2009 (V6 and i4) all go over 125k with NOTHING except oil changes.(only reason they're gone is due to being totaled) My 2009 V6 coupe is still nothing but oil changes every 10k miles, I'm right about 125k on it now. Original timing belt and everything.
There are so many other stuff you are ignoring, though. Transmission fluid, coolant, brake fluid, power steering fluid, to name a few.

Do you drive on highways often, btw? 10k mile changes seem a little too long, unless you drive highways mostly. Follow the maintenance minder.

Then there is the timing belt. I will let you choose between a timing belt job and valves and pistons smashing against together-potentially with great forces if you are running it under load-unexpectedly, destroying your engine(J35Zs are interference engines).

Take better care of it. 8th Gen Accord Coupes are nice cars, but just because it's a Honda doesn't mean it just needs oil changes.

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post #41 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 11:24 PM
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Are you aware of the members on here who have gotten their timing belts replaced prematurely, and then a few months later the timing belt breaks. Replacing a timing belt is a SERIOUS job that requires removing the engine. It is not recommended to be done by anyone except EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONALS...

That being said... Have you READ THE OWNERS manual? It clearly states in the owners manual to ONLY replace the timing belt when the Maintenance Minder displays the code to replace the timing belt. The ONLY time Honda recommends replacing your timing belt before the Maintenance Minder displays the code; is IF you use your Accord for towing. Honda does NOT recommend replacing your timing belt before that code is displayed.

I do follow the Maintenance Minder; when using Synthetic oil(I always do) the MM goes at least 10k before the light goes on. And I don't only use my car for highway, but I'm smart to not turn on my car to just drive a block down the road.
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post #42 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 11:36 PM
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And it's NOT good to just come on here and talk about a whole lot that is not true or just simply baseless....

Honda is not used for taxis, driving schools and similar corporate groups/fleets NOT because of ANYTHING to do with longevity, reliability or cost of ownership. It has absolutely ZERO to do with anything of the like...Honda CHOOSES to not sell its cars as fleet cars. They make more money by selling to individuals and dealerships instead of large orders to taxi companies and other fleets.

And also, a car that is used everyday, nonstop for lots and lots of miles, is EASY to maintain and keep running and make last a LONG LONG time. Why?? Because it doesn't have to keep warming up.... A car that your grandma drives a mile to the grocery store 5-6 days a week, that is a car that will NOT last. Warming up and driving on a cold engine for short trips is the hardest on any car.
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post #43 of 158 Old 01-10-2017, 11:42 PM
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You can't show me ONE person that has had a Honda engine problem because of a failed timing belt after their MM told them to replace it. BUT, I can show you multiple members on HERE who replaced their timing belt before the MM told them to, and then a VERY short time later their replacement timing belt failed..

Honda is a VERY reliable car company, as we mostly all would agree.... WHY would they EXPLICITLY state in the owners manual to follow procedures that put your engine at risk of catastrophic failure???? They would NEVER.....

The owners manual clearly states to NOT EVER replace the timing belt before the MM tells you to... UNLESS you use your car to tow.
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post #44 of 158 Old 01-11-2017, 12:37 AM
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And it's NOT good to just come on here and talk about a whole lot that is not true or just simply baseless....

Honda is not used for taxis, driving schools and similar corporate groups/fleets NOT because of ANYTHING to do with longevity, reliability or cost of ownership. It has absolutely ZERO to do with anything of the like...Honda CHOOSES to not sell its cars as fleet cars. They make more money by selling to individuals and dealerships instead of large orders to taxi companies and other fleets.
First, I want ya to take a chill pill and take a deep breath. No need to get all steamed up.

I looked up, and yes, you are right mostly. This article says that while Honda doesn't like fleet sales, the dealerships wouldn't mind making fleet sales.

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And also, a car that is used everyday, nonstop for lots and lots of miles, is EASY to maintain and keep running and make last a LONG LONG time. Why?? Because it doesn't have to keep warming up.... A car that your grandma drives a mile to the grocery store 5-6 days a week, that is a car that will NOT last. Warming up and driving on a cold engine for short trips is the hardest on any car.
Can't argue against this one.

The only thing I want to say is that I heard Prius batteries are pretty good. Still, given how much the battery is charged/discharged constantly, constant driving may affect its life.

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Are you aware of the members on here who have gotten their timing belts replaced prematurely, and then a few months later the timing belt breaks. Replacing a timing belt is a SERIOUS job that requires removing the engine. It is not recommended to be done by anyone except EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONALS...

That being said... Have you READ THE OWNERS manual? It clearly states in the owners manual to ONLY replace the timing belt when the Maintenance Minder displays the code to replace the timing belt. The ONLY time Honda recommends replacing your timing belt before the Maintenance Minder displays the code; is IF you use your Accord for towing. Honda does NOT recommend replacing your timing belt before that code is displayed.
Some people use aftermarket timing belts and that's how they break so easily. Also, some DIYers are not very skilled. I suppose I should bring it in for the professionals.

I just read it again, and yes, it says 60000 miles or 100k km if you tow a lot, live somewhere super hot or super cold.

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You can't show me ONE person that has had a Honda engine problem because of a failed timing belt after their MM told them to replace it. BUT, I can show you multiple members on HERE who replaced their timing belt before the MM told them to, and then a VERY short time later their replacement timing belt failed..

Honda is a VERY reliable car company, as we mostly all would agree.... WHY would they EXPLICITLY state in the owners manual to follow procedures that put your engine at risk of catastrophic failure???? They would NEVER.....

The owners manual clearly states to NOT EVER replace the timing belt before the MM tells you to... UNLESS you use your car to tow.
Take a look at this and this.

They are old Accords, I know, so they might not even have MMs, but that stuff can still happen on newer Accords as well.

My theory on why there's not a lot of people with newer Accords having this issue because they are either DIYers(who can, like you said, potentially mess it up) or Average Joes/Janes that bring their cars to the dealership and the dealership tells them about it.

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I do follow the Maintenance Minder; when using Synthetic oil(I always do) the MM goes at least 10k before the light goes on. And I don't only use my car for highway, but I'm smart to not turn on my car to just drive a block down the road.
I also try avoiding short trips. I do have to drive to uni now, which isn't too far away from my house, but the rainy/windy BC winter forces me to drive to school now. What I do is that I take the slightly longer route and try to warm up the engine fully(ECO light starts appearing) before I shut it off. I also pick up a friend now, so this makes the trip slightly longer, too, which makes sure the engine is all toasty by the time I park it.

One thine I would like to add is that, while I now follow the MM for oil changes, I will still perform automatic transmission fluid change and power steering fluid change based on my own observations. If the car shifts rough with brown fluid, time to change it. Doesn't matter what MM says, no smooth shift = no happy me. Same for power steering. MM didn't tell me anything, and I had to do multiple flushes before the PS fluid doesn't look like black coffee. The car steered so much better with the new fluid as well. I believe Honda states the brake fluid should be changed every three years regardless of mileage since it attracts water and will degrade over time.

Good arguments and facts; I thank you for sharing your opinion and knowledge, and I accept them. But like I said, please calm down...

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Mods and such things:

AFE Pro Dry S drop-in filter
HFP body kit
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i-VTEC & 3.5 stickers(+10 HP each)(JKLOL)
High and Low beams - Philips CrystalVision Ultra
Front turn signals - HV 6000K white/amber switchback
Rear lights - Philips Vision LEDs
Interior LEDs
Crosstour shift knob
OEM footwell lights
Dash cover
Dash kit trim(upcoming)
Wheelskins steering wheel cover
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post #45 of 158 Old 01-11-2017, 01:05 AM
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Are you aware of the members on here who have gotten their timing belts replaced prematurely, and then a few months later the timing belt breaks. Replacing a timing belt is a SERIOUS job that requires removing the engine. It is not recommended to be done by anyone except EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONALS...

That being said... Have you READ THE OWNERS manual? It clearly states in the owners manual to ONLY replace the timing belt when the Maintenance Minder displays the code to replace the timing belt. The ONLY time Honda recommends replacing your timing belt before the Maintenance Minder displays the code; is IF you use your Accord for towing. Honda does NOT recommend replacing your timing belt before that code is displayed.

I do follow the Maintenance Minder; when using Synthetic oil(I always do) the MM goes at least 10k before the light goes on. And I don't only use my car for highway, but I'm smart to not turn on my car to just drive a block down the road.

Replacing the timing belt requires engine removal? It's clear you have absolutely no clue about this.

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