2018 Competitor: New Toyota Camry has V6, maybe new Accord too? - Page 4 - Drive Accord Honda Forums
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post #46 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PlayaPlaya View Post
You can't tell me a Toyota will cost less than a Honda to maintain. Nothing has cost less than my Accords to maintain. I've had 2006, two 2008's, and a 2009 (V6 and i4) all go over 125k with NOTHING except oil changes.(only reason they're gone is due to being totaled) My 2009 V6 coupe is still nothing but oil changes every 10k miles, I'm right about 125k on it now. Original timing belt and everything.
My 8th gen Accord has been one of the most problematic cars I've ever owned. It's at about 125K miles and aside from normal maintenance I have had to replace:

- 4 ball joints
- 2 mufflers
- alternator
- a/c compressor
- steering rack
- alternator belt tensioner assembly


Now, I could make the outlandish claim that, based on my experience, Hondas are expensive to maintain. But I won't because I'm intellectually honest. And if you are to be intellectually honest you must admit that your claimed experience of changing oil only is not representative of a typical Honda. Outside of your Hondas I've never heard of any car that has not required other fluid changes, brake services, air filters, wheel alignments, spark plugs, etc. None.

You'll have to excuse me if I find your claims to be non truthful. I simply find it very hard to believe that the only thing you have ever done to your Accords is changing oil.

My Honda has been far more expensive to maintain the a Camry owned by a friend. So I can absolutely state that a Honda can be more expensive to maintain than a Toyota.

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post #47 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Kurdistan View Post
You already killed the upcoming Accord even though you have no information on the new car including features, styling, engines, etc. We now have an idea of what the next Camry is going to be and so does Honda so I'm sure they will take that into consideration while adding some final touches to the 2018 model even though production on this car has been going on for several years now. (Usually Honda starts developing the next generation right after a new gen debuts). I don't really see what you like about the Camry, the styling is nothing special it looks too busy. The only nice thing about this car is the interior even though that's just from the pictures you would still have to go inside the car to see for yourself if interior quality is good or not. Most of the people from Toyota Nation aren't too crazy about the new Camry, they think the current Camry looks cleaner and I agree with them.



Toyota focuses on longevity? What does Honda focus on then? Toyota's are not as reliable as they used to be, their reputation has gone down significantly since the 2000's and it hasn't become any better. The last "good" Camry was the 2001 model, the rest have been trash since then. Maintaining a Toyota is actually more expensive than a Honda because Toyota parts cost more $$ compared to Honda parts. When it comes to reliability and longevity both Toyota and Honda are equal, I don't see one brand being more reliable than the other. They both have had their ups and downs in reliability over the years, Honda with its transmissions and Toyota with sludge issues and other things. It's really unfair to say Toyota is more reliable than Honda because that's just not true at all, they are both well known well regarded Japanese brands that have competed against each other for many years (the sole reason why Camry ever came into existence was to directly compete against the Accord). Please don't confuse Honda with some shitty american or korean car company...
You seem to take it very personally when someone suggests Toyota is more reliable than Honda. Very strange.

In my experience both Toyota and Honda have taken backwards steps in the last decade in terms of their reliability.

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post #48 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by PlayaPlaya View Post
You can't show me ONE person that has had a Honda engine problem because of a failed timing belt after their MM told them to replace it. BUT, I can show you multiple members on HERE who replaced their timing belt before the MM told them to, and then a VERY short time later their replacement timing belt failed..

Honda is a VERY reliable car company, as we mostly all would agree.... WHY would they EXPLICITLY state in the owners manual to follow procedures that put your engine at risk of catastrophic failure???? They would NEVER.....

The owners manual clearly states to NOT EVER replace the timing belt before the MM tells you to... UNLESS you use your car to tow.
I agree that I would never change the timing belt before the MM tells me to. But you seem to be implying that replacing the timing belt early is a reason for a timing belt failure. Which is a very strange statement to make.
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post #49 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Markus View Post
My 8th gen Accord has been one of the most problematic cars I've ever owned. It's at about 125K miles and aside from normal maintenance I have had to replace:

- 4 ball joints
- 2 mufflers
- alternator
- a/c compressor
- steering rack
- alternator belt tensioner assembly


Now, I could make the outlandish claim that, based on my experience, Hondas are expensive to maintain. But I won't because I'm intellectually honest. And if you are to be intellectually honest you must admit that your claimed experience of changing oil only is not representative of a typical Honda. Outside of your Hondas I've never heard of any car that has not required other fluid changes, brake services, air filters, wheel alignments, spark plugs, etc. None.

You'll have to excuse me if I find your claims to be non truthful. I simply find it very hard to believe that the only thing you have ever done to your Accords is changing oil.

My Honda has been far more expensive to maintain the a Camry owned by a friend. So I can absolutely state that a Honda can be more expensive to maintain than a Toyota.
Dang that's bad. Hopefully nothing falls apart on my Coupe soon.

I am happy with my Accord, but yeah, still gotta do all that other maintenance even if the MM doesn't say anything. It's for reference only, and while it works well with oil life and possibly timing belt, I still check my auto tranny fluid and even oil every so often, just to make sure everything is fine.

Let's not forget how many 8th Gen V6 AT owners hate the VCM. I personally am fine with it, but I'd be lying if I say it doesn't slowly foul spark plugs. I changed those out before the 100k mile mark, and now the car runs smoother and doesn't give me a violent shake when I shut the car off.

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Originally Posted by Markus View Post
You seem to take it very personally when someone suggests Toyota is more reliable than Honda. Very strange.

In my experience both Toyota and Honda have taken backwards steps in the last decade in terms of their reliability.
Meanwhile, domestics are slowly improving. American cars aren't that terrible anymore.

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I agree that I would never change the timing belt before the MM tells me to. But you seem to be implying that replacing the timing belt early is a reason for a timing belt failure. Which is a very strange statement to make.
What he is trying to say is this:

Some people change it way before the mark to be safe, but they either buy cheap parts from China or somewhere or they don't have enough skills to do it properly. Sometimes they do both. I have seen someone regretting buying a cheap timing belt somewhere after only 1000 miles of replacing it...

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post #50 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 04:06 AM
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How did y'all go from 2018 Camry to timing belt failures on a Honda? -_-

Meanwhile, I have a SERIOUS problem. We were told we can't have coffee in our office anymore because it can stain products on the production floor.....in our office!

Honda seems to design their cars semi-aggressive and more attractive... Maybe a little too much? Civic?

Meanwhile, Toyota appears to be more relaxed and simpler on the outside. I can't say I'm too fond of the inside, but over the years, I've learned that what doesn't appeal to me at first can grow on me later.
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post #51 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by salcuta88 View Post
How did y'all go from 2018 Camry to timing belt failures on a Honda? -_-

Meanwhile, I have a SERIOUS problem. We were told we can't have coffee in our office anymore because it can stain products on the production floor.....in our office!

Honda seems to design their cars semi-aggressive and more attractive... Maybe a little too much? Civic?

Meanwhile, Toyota appears to be more relaxed and simpler on the outside. I can't say I'm too fond of the inside, but over the years, I've learned that what doesn't appeal to me at first can grow on me later.
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post #52 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 04:51 AM
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• I have a 2012 V6 Accord with 52,000 miles. Not a single thing has gone wrong – nothing.
• I also have a 2010 Toyota RAV4 V6 with 66,000 miles. Not a single thing has gone wrong – nothing.
• I’d call that pretty equal.


But then again, my wife drives the RAV4 and was able to coax 105,000 miles out of our previous MAZDA MPV (3.0-liter Ford V6) with only two minor problems....coil packs...before the transmission died. And before the MPV she coaxed about 95,000 miles out of a Nissan minivan with only two or three repairs. I'm sure her driving style must have some impact because both the MPV and Quest were not rated as reliable.

So....do Toyota drivers in general drive easily, like my lovely wife? Past Camry's certainly didn't beg the driver to attack that next corner. Neither does my RAV4 now that I think about it! But in the end I think we all know Honda and Toyota make very reliable cars.

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post #53 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 05:44 AM
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The ONLY thing about this new Camry that interests me is the interior, it actually looks really upscale inside, looks like they are going to give it an Avalon feel. But I still would have to go inside this new Camry to see if interior quality is good. The last time a Camry had a better interior than the Accord was the 4th gen (1997-2001) all the Camrys after that have been trash.

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Anyone remember the days of 4 spd autos...or even 3 spd autos?

10 speed automatics = unreal. Is that not trying to break into CVT territory without actually using a CVT?

Back to the point - I might shed a small tear if Honda dropped the V6 in the Accord. It's such an amazing engine. Aside from the choppy suspension, there is nothing I dislike about my Accord and the V6/6AT is the shining point of it.

Wonder if Honda might go the direction of say...Hyundai or Kia? Well I'm too lazy to look it up but I thought I remembered the Sonata or Optima having an I4 NA, V6 and then a I4 turbo option on one or the other.

IF Honda were going the route of dropping a turbo I4 into the Accord, do y'all think it would have enough to outrun the V6?

Are there Honda turbo I4 platforms already in production that might get transplanted into the Accord? I'm not super familiar with Honda's history...
All I am going to say is that the 6th generation Accord felt like a high end BMW, whereas Camry's been bland and crap since 1982. I do drive a 4 speed automatic, and it's way better than any CVT. I looked at the 2018 Odyssey, and looks like Honda is using the 10-spd for the end trim levels. Honda has this in their bag in my perspective.

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post #54 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 06:45 AM
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Toyota focuses on longevity. That is they typically lag behind the competition in terms of new tech. Toyota sticks with proven reliable (if a little old) stuff. Those Prius and Camrys can probably go 300k - 400k. Hondas are still pretty good but Toyotas will generally last longer and cost less to maintain.

I test drove a Lexus ES350 but it had so little road feel, nope I couldn't take it. Maybe the new one will be better. A GS or IS would have been more interesting but I didn't want to pay that much.
That's true. Look at the engine in its Lexus IS. It has better handling than the 3 Series (that's become less sporty but more luxurious) but the complaint is the really outdated engine.

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Originally Posted by PlayaPlaya View Post
You can't tell me a Toyota will cost less than a Honda to maintain. Nothing has cost less than my Accords to maintain. I've had 2006, two 2008's, and a 2009 (V6 and i4) all go over 125k with NOTHING except oil changes.(only reason they're gone is due to being totaled) My 2009 V6 coupe is still nothing but oil changes every 10k miles, I'm right about 125k on it now. Original timing belt and everything.
Do you inspect components at all, just as prescribed in the maintenance schedule? I only asked because that's basically how I'm treating my 02 Civic because it has no resale value and we have the 11 Accord an 16 RAV4 Hybrid -- I just do oil and air filter changes and just maybe, another spark plug change in the future.

As for my 11 Accord, it's still covered by extended warranty so I opt out of air filter changes, tire rotation (because I can do them myself), and the timing belt adjustment since mine come with a timing chain but still have the dealership perform oil changes and other stuff since I'd like to do one final inspection half a year before the warranty expires and I don't want Honda Canada turning its back on me and suggesting the warranty is void. Once the warranty is over, I will try to follow the prescribed inspections maybe at half the suggested frequency though I have yet to learn how to check all the suspension components listed.

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Originally Posted by Kurdistan View Post
You already killed the upcoming Accord even though you have no information on the new car including features, styling, engines, etc. We now have an idea of what the next Camry is going to be and so does Honda so I'm sure they will take that into consideration while adding some final touches to the 2018 model even though production on this car has been going on for several years now. (Usually Honda starts developing the next generation right after a new gen debuts). I don't really see what you like about the Camry, the styling is nothing special it looks too busy. The only nice thing about this car is the interior even though that's just from the pictures you would still have to go inside the car to see for yourself if interior quality is good or not. Most of the people from Toyota Nation aren't too crazy about the new Camry, they think the current Camry looks cleaner and I agree with them.



Toyota focuses on longevity? What does Honda focus on then? Toyota's are not as reliable as they used to be, their reputation has gone down significantly since the 2000's and it hasn't become any better. The last "good" Camry was the 2001 model, the rest have been trash since then. Maintaining a Toyota is actually more expensive than a Honda because Toyota parts cost more $$ compared to Honda parts. When it comes to reliability and longevity both Toyota and Honda are equal, I don't see one brand being more reliable than the other. They both have had their ups and downs in reliability over the years, Honda with its transmissions and Toyota with sludge issues and other things. It's really unfair to say Toyota is more reliable than Honda because that's just not true at all, they are both well known well regarded Japanese brands that have competed against each other for many years (the sole reason why Camry ever came into existence was to directly compete against the Accord). Please don't confuse Honda with some shitty american or korean car company...
I can't say I agree with your last statement. Toyota only has its CVT in the Corolla and it hasn't turbo charged its line up but Honda has already started. Lots of complaints about the Honda CVT on various model forums ( I drove a 16 Accord LX in Vancouver during the summer but only for 10 miles but didn't feel this judder) and we all know turbo charged engine adds to complexity which will not make any car more reliable in the long run. It's not even for low end torque and making the car more fun to drive but likely to meet CAFE since they do well on government testing.

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post #55 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 11:04 AM
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2018 Camry XSE retains V6 I hope Accord does

What do you guys think of new Camry XSE v6?
I hope Honda keeps V6 around as option
Thxs
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post #56 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 11:30 AM
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What do you guys think of new Camry XSE v6?
I hope Honda keeps V6 around as option
Thxs
It'll sell well.

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post #57 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Markus View Post
My 8th gen Accord has been one of the most problematic cars I've ever owned. It's at about 125K miles and aside from normal maintenance I have had to replace:

- 4 ball joints
- 2 mufflers
- alternator
- a/c compressor
- steering rack
- alternator belt tensioner assembly


Now, I could make the outlandish claim that, based on my experience, Hondas are expensive to maintain. But I won't because I'm intellectually honest. And if you are to be intellectually honest you must admit that your claimed experience of changing oil only is not representative of a typical Honda. Outside of your Hondas I've never heard of any car that has not required other fluid changes, brake services, air filters, wheel alignments, spark plugs, etc. None.

You'll have to excuse me if I find your claims to be non truthful. I simply find it very hard to believe that the only thing you have ever done to your Accords is changing oil.

My Honda has been far more expensive to maintain the a Camry owned by a friend. So I can absolutely state that a Honda can be more expensive to maintain than a Toyota.
You are correct, I do kinda take it personally when somebody bashes Honda or says Toyota is better for whatever reason... Why?!?!? Because like I said, I've owned 4 Accords in the past few years and ALL of them have been flawless with ZERO problems and nothing but oil changes performed on them. And 3 of those Accords saved my life/let me walk away, even though I totaled them with no seatbelt on. Oh and SORRY, you are right, I forgot to mention the brake job I just got done at 115k...I replaced brake fluid, rotors, pads and lines all with TOP of the line components...about a $1,800 brake job for my V6 coupe...the shop who did the brake job and installed it all told me replacing the brake fluid and all the new components were WAY OVER KILL and the only thing I really should do is just replace the brake pads; which I knew, but again, these Accords have treated me AWESOME and so I didn't mind dropping $1,800 for an awesome new brake system cause I know this car is going to last.
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post #58 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 01:54 PM
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Markus - I don't doubt for one second that your Accord had all those problems and more that you probably don't even know about... We/everybody call those lemons. The good 'ol Monday morning/Friday afternoon cars. Every manufacturer from Chevy to Rolls Royce has/will manufactured cars that are filled with problems. The list of problems in your post are not at all indicative of problems other people will run into with their Accords. Personally, nearly all those problems you listed are problems that I've not heard ANYBODY have on their Accords. You got a fluke; like I said, it happens to every car manufacturer in the world. That is why there are laws in place to help people in your situation.... Use them.
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post #59 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 01:58 PM
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And I wasn't clear... the engine does not have to be REMOVED from the car, but it does have to be removed from the mounting bolt and lifted slightly. At least, this is how I've seen it done every time.
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post #60 of 180 Old 01-11-2017, 02:32 PM
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You are correct, I do kinda take it personally when somebody bashes Honda or says Toyota is better for whatever reason... Why?!?!? Because like I said, I've owned 4 Accords in the past few years and ALL of them have been flawless with ZERO problems and nothing but oil changes performed on them. And 3 of those Accords saved my life/let me walk away, even though I totaled them with no seatbelt on. Oh and SORRY, you are right, I forgot to mention the brake job I just got done at 115k...I replaced brake fluid, rotors, pads and lines all with TOP of the line components...about a $1,800 brake job for my V6 coupe...the shop who did the brake job and installed it all told me replacing the brake fluid and all the new components were WAY OVER KILL and the only thing I really should do is just replace the brake pads; which I knew, but again, these Accords have treated me AWESOME and so I didn't mind dropping $1,800 for an awesome new brake system cause I know this car is going to last.

Well all I can say is that if you take bashing of Honda personally or get upset when someone says Toyota is better than Honda is that you seem like a very insecure person who can't accept that others may think the inanimate objects you decided to buy are not the best in the world.

Me, as far as anything I purchase goes, I don't care what anyone else thinks about the purchase. As long as I'm happy with my purchase I don't care if anyone else bashes it. My self worth is not based on what others think of my purchases.

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