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What's your next manual car if 10th gen doesn't have MT -- Confirmed: 10th gen has MT

14K views 109 replies 30 participants last post by  Baldeagle 
#1 ·
In midsize ground, there will be Legacy and Mazda 6 left;
Honda wise, Civic Si and all Hatchbacks are available.

My pick would be Civic Si Sedan. What is yours?
 
#2 ·
The manual at first wasn't available on the current civic turbo, and Honda did right In 2017. Hopefully they'll not make this mistake in the accord. The good news is that they do offer 6 speed transmissions with both the 1.6 and 2.0 liter turbo engines in other Honda's. I'm really not liking the new civic or odyssey instrument clusters and I hope the Accord doesn't go that direction
 
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#3 ·
I am with you.
I like the traditional instrument cluster too, but more than likely the Accord will adopt the digital one just like in CRV and Odyssey.

I think Civic Turbo was not offered in manual to give market space to Si version, as they are pretty much at the sameish price.
 
#4 ·
Subaru Legacy? Well, at least in USA its already a legacy. Subaru already ditched them.
 
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#7 ·
I'll probably hang on to my 9th gen for quite bit longer than expected now that my 2nd child is of driving age and neither have any interest in driving a stick. Whatever, kids. But I do insist that they learn to parallel park - a skill no longer required to get your driver's license in NC. Weird.

When I'm ready I'll likely venture into Mustang / Camaro territory and find a MT car there. I'll be very surprised if any Japanese car makers will offer a mid-size / MT combo after 2020. Does the Passat even have a MT option any more?
 
#8 ·
Shifting gears manually with a clutch is a dying functionality in midsize sedans, so let's all get over it. It's like pinning for buggy whips or mechanical adding machines and typewriters. I would only buy a drop top sports car like the Miata or it's cousin the Fiat 124 with a MT because they are basically useless vehicles except for having nostalgic fun on the weekends.

The manufactures know that MT cars sit on their dealer's lots for months and only appeal to the lowest price buyer and the eclectic old car enthusiast. Modern high performance sports cars and racing cars all have automatic transmissions with paddle shifters. Famed formula one driver Sir Sterling Moss said in a Playboy interview in the 1960s that he would never drive a MT car for his personal use. Those were the days when racing cars all had a 4 speed MT with a clutch. Racing has discovered that lap times are faster using automatic transmissions with paddle shifters. Moss knew what a pain in the rear manually shifting a car in London or New York traffic. Today the traffic is even worse in midsize cities such as Dallas or Denver due to suburban growth in the last fifty years.

The future is in autonomous driving electric cars and driving will be considered a ridicules hazard reserved for special tracks segregated from the city streets and freeways. Why are we surprised that the MT and the Coupe will be trashed in the tenth generation Accord?
 
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#9 ·
Flyboy - your analogy comparing a stick shift to buggy whips, etc is a specious one, at best.

Typewriters and buggy whips probably never contributed to a 'fun' or 'engaging' experience with the machine owner. Manually shifted cars do, for some people. That group is a shrinking one, for sure but I can almost guarantee that no one here pines away for their old Smith Corona to actually get work done.

You're right, of course that MT cars are going away and at a faster rate in the U.S. than in Europe. That doesn't mean that drivers like me won't miss them. I'll keep doing my part and buying them. Enjoy your soulless CVT.
 
#10 ·
Flyboy - your analogy comparing a stick shift to buggy whips, etc is a specious one, at best.

Typewriters and buggy whips probably never contributed to a 'fun' or 'engaging' experience with the machine owner. Manually shifted cars do, for some people. That group is a shrinking one, for sure but I can almost guarantee that no one here pines away for their old Smith Corona to actually get work done.

You're right, of course that MT cars are going away and at a faster rate in the U.S. than in Europe. That doesn't mean that drivers like me won't miss them. I'll keep doing my part and buying them. Enjoy your soulless CVT.
The CVT with the paddle shifters is occasionally fun without having to clutch, shift, clutch, shift in bumper to bumper traffic. I'm watching the Indy 500 and the drivers are all shifting with paddle shifters. I think they have a clutch pedal to start from a dead stop. When I finally stop working and don't have to commute in traffic I would like a drop top sports car to tootle around town for fun shifting gears manually.

Honda is a business and building cars that only a very small minority will buy is a bad business decision. The only reason Europeans buy MT cars is the high price of gasoline and squeezing an extra km per liter out of your gas tank is worth the effort. However, modern technology like the CVT transmission and turbocharging are making the fuel economy of the MT cars a moot point. Places in the third world will still have a demand for MT cars because they are cheaper. However, the low cost of manufacturing the CVT wil make that argument also moot. Honda just built a huge CVT transmission plant in Mexico to supply those transmissions to Honda assembly plants world wide. Don't hold your breath for a 10th generation Accord with a MT.

My suggestion to you is to maintain your current MT car and because it's a Honda you should be able to manually shift gears into the future. You can put in your will to be buried with your shift knob in your right hand. :grin

BTW I left out turntables, CDs and VHS recorders. The world of technology moves onward and the manual transmission is a relic of the past. "Grandpa, why does your old car have three peddles instead of two like everyone else.":devil
 
#15 ·
I've driven MT's since my first car, a '83 T-Bird, my wife's '79 accord and her '95 Toyota pickup until today.

We're holding on to her MT '95 Toyota pickup. I began to teach my 13 y/o boy at 10 and will teach my 9 y/o as well.

Why? I'm not sure. Is there any intrinsic value in them learning how to drive a MT? I don't know. I just know that I want them to know how to do it.

Having said that, my 83 y/o dad opted for the AT Sport SE. My son will probably take it over when he's 16 but he'll still have the option of driving a MT, even if there are none but our old pickup left.
 
#16 ·
Being able to drive a stick shift is different than Honda continuing to offer them in the next generation Accord. There will be MT cars around for a long time and knowing how to manually shift may come in handy. The Ford model T had a completely different arrangement having a brake pedal, a gear shift pedal and a reverse pedal. I guess there are a few folks around who know how to drive a Modle T with a stalk mounted throttle and spark advance. I think the current manual transmission will go the same way in the future.

My 20 year old son has very little interest in cars and has no desire to learn how to shift gears. He learned to drive in my wife's 2007 Fit Sport which has an automatic and he's still driving the car today.

I don't understand all the consternation about the demise of the manual transmission in the Accord. Toyota dumped them in the Camry years ago and Ford never offered them in the Fusion. Learning how to shift gears manually is like learning Latin. No one speaks it but knowing it might help a person understand both romance and English languages.
 
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#17 ·
I've suspected that the manufacturing cost of 6 (and 7) speed manual transmissions is greater than the manufacturing cost of autoshifters and the marketing need to (in effect) discount manual transmission sales makes manufacturers even more reluctant to offer the option. IIRC on my TSX, the manual gearbox was a "no cost option". I think that's BMW's approach, too.

A part of Honda's marketing strategy seems to be offering manuals on the low end /low option versions. Even on the current V6 Accord Coupe, it doesn't look like Honda Sensing is available with the 6-speed manual. This appears to be the case with the current Civic, too.

VW seems to take the opposite approach and sells manual transmission versions of their cars with electronic driver assists. (So does BMW.)

Fortunately, if I needed a new car tomorrow I think I could come up with at least a dozen acceptable candidates (all with manual gearboxes) without thinking about it too much.
 
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#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
There still are manual transmission cars available. According to my Google search. "Sadly, of 226 car models, only 78 of them offer a manual transmission for the 2017 model year, and here's the comprehensive list." They're not dead yet but just on life support. The real test is to go to a dealer and try to find one in stock.

This site gave the totals as well as the list.

Every Manual Transmission Car Available in 2017 | Web2Carz

If Honda drops the MT, I would consider the next gen VW GLI. It will be built on the same amazing GTI platform and of course offer a full trunk. If you want to step up to a more expensive performance sedan, you can still order car a MT in a BMW 3 Series, Audi A4 or Cadillac ATS. (If there is an Alfa Romeo dealership near you, they would be happy to offer you the Giulia.) But in the $30,000 range (or less), that GLI is understated, solid, super-fun and nearly as fast as an Accord V6-6MT. With regard to the Civic Si, for some reason Honda decided to make it a boy-racer car. It comes across as being so immature.

I know Flyboy only associates MTs with small sports cars. After all only sports cars can be fun. Right Flyboy? Why such limited thinking? How did you develop such mental constraints? Fun and practical are not mutually exclusive traits in a sedan. If you want fun, you probably want a MT because they are MORE fun. DSGs may be slightly faster, but are far less satisfying and entertaining. They will always numb the experience. To many of us, that matters.
In the past I've owned an Alfa and my dad a Fiat. Both may have better quality today, but in the past they were not very reliable, the parts were expensive and the dealerships few and far between. They were fun to drive when they ran.

As for the Cadillac ATS you would be hard pressed to find a dealer who has one in stock with a manual.
 
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#23 ·
I had an uncle who kept a pair of spats in his closet just in case they came back in style. :wink You youngsters will have to google spats.
 
#31 ·
Flyboy have you driven a 9th gen manual Accord yet? I'd try one out to see why most of us are trying to keep manuals going. I let like 5 people test drive my car and they all were surprised at how well it was for it's price tag.


I left GM because manuals pretty much died unless you got a Camaro or a Vette. Even then you had to order it that way as even the SS deleted the manual. If I don't keep this car after lease most likely I'll be looking in the used car market or stick it out with my current Gen 4 Legacy GT as is since manual swapping it would exceed the value even more than this last engine rebuild is.
 
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#35 ·
This quote is another that caught my eye "Turbocharging less exciting than VTEC". I'm sure hoping those 0-60 acceleration estimates are pessimistic. That would translate into 5-60 times >= 7 seconds. That is not "Si" worthy these days.
 
#37 ·
I looked at a Civic but they seem to have stolen room from the front to give more leg room to rear seat pasangers, I couldn't find a comfortable driving position. I may consider Mustang and Camaro, maybe it's time for a V8. Also the German cars are still available with MT, Audi, BMW, VW, et al. Fortunately my Accord is running great and is still "low mileage" so I have lots of time to research my next purchase.
 
#38 ·
@BenzAccord: Yeah, we can only hope for better Si performance. The 180hp Civic is about 6.9s to 60 mph (7.6s 5-60 mph). With an extra 25 hp the Si should be quicker, but I think 6.3s to 60 mph is about as fast as it will get (stock). If I go Civic, it might be the Type R or nothing. But that car is so damned garish. And if the Type R’s price approaches that $40,000 range, it is very close to some other MUCH nicer cars. Time will tell. Fortunately, my 6-6 has lots of life left and I am in no hurry.
 
#39 ·
There is a 2016 Cadillac ATS-V Sedan with a 6 speed leftover in a dealership in Kansas City, MO with a dark colored exterior and light colored interior. Everything I want in a car. They just dropped the price to 55K. All they need to do is drop it another 20K and I'm on a plane. Oh well.
 
#42 ·
Honestly, even if the 10th gen offers MT, I'll still probably head towards a different route from Honda. A 981 Cayman S or GT4, or a 718 Cayman/S sounds about right. :smile An E9x M3 is worth considering as well.
 
#48 ·
I live in NJ and have spent a fair amount of time in NYC, Philly and even Washington DC B2B traffic. While I prefer an AT in that environment, driving a MT is not the horrible experience some make it appear. Legs don’t fall off bodies and arms don’t burn with lactic acid. It’s just a little extra work.

If anything it is mental fatigue that sets in after an hour or two of B2B traffic. It is never physical. What bothers me most, especially when going up a long hill in pure stop-and-go B2B traffic is the thought that feathering my clutch so much wears it prematurely. I hate the thought of hurting my car. If my daily commute consisted of regular B2B traffic, that would be my reason to own an AT, to protect my car. A torque converter is made for that slow grind.
 
#50 ·
To me the issue for buying 9th gen 6MT was more gut feel that the 2.4NA will be replaced with 2.0T. This may also include replacing the Japanese trans with the Indian trans. Having driven the 1.5t Civic 6MT in tests, the 2.4NA is much more to my liking, a much smoother shift and feel. In manual you can make the accord 2.4NA growl, the CVT had nothing similar when test driven, just the whine of a CVT under load. I guess it's sort of like riding a fixed gear bicycle vs freewheel, one is much engaging and requires more concentration and coordination, not to mention more simple. Manuals are traditionally way more reliable even when pricing in a clutch job.

The only other manual that felt quality on test drives was the 2.5NA Mazda (not the 2.0), similar feel as Accord though clutch engagement a bit different. Both are quite fast though.
 
#52 ·
I'm hoping to grab a leftover '17 V6 6MT if they announce there won't be a V6 and/or vehicle with a manual transmission. I'd take a look at a 2.0T with a 6MT but I want a car that's as quick as the car I have now, and the Type R really isn't in my price range

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
#53 ·
I'm hoping to grab a leftover '17 V6 6MT if they announce there won't be a V6 and/or vehicle with a manual transmission. I'd take a look at a 2.0T with a 6MT but I want a car that's as quick as the car I have now, and the Type R really isn't in my price range

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
"Leftover V6-6MT" is an oxymoron. The V6-6MT is by far the fastest selling car that Honda makes. They sell so fast many people must order them. Of course that is because their production is very limited compared to demand, well below the equilibrium point. (If Honda produced more V6-6MTs they could easily sell more.) You would be hard pressed to find a 6-6 on a lot right now let alone a leftover next fall. Of course that begs the question "Why would Honda discontinue a car that outstrips demand?" But that subject has already been beaten to death in other threads.
 
#58 ·
Interesting leak over at civicx showing type R window stickers at Baltimore port. Price was not what caught my eye, rather the fact the 2.0t engine is USA produced and trans is Japan. Bodes well for Accord I think, at least a v6 replacement. the 1.5t seems too weak though, sure hope they do not put that 1.5 civic drivetrain in the Accord 4s.
 
#59 ·
If the rumors are true, the 1.5T will replace the current 2.4 and a 2.0T will replace the current 3.5. Let's hope Honda will mate the 6MT to the 2.0T in the sedan.


Also the Type R may not be as expensive as I mentioned. Hmmm, if this price is real I wonder if I can sell my wife on that hideous rear wing.
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#61 ·
35 g's is a lot of coin for any Civic. It'd have to be damn good
 
#62 ·
$34,775 is the sticker. Just wait until they get to the dealer and the "market adjustment" gets added to the bottom line. Then they park it in the middle of the showroom behind velvet ropes where you can only sit in it on Wednesdays between 3 PM and closing AFTER you make an appointment and give them a 500 dollar deposit. All that for a Civic that will get you revved on by every sub-protozoa at every traffic light on your daily commute. No thanks.
 
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#64 ·
I was actually talking to the parts guy at the Honda dealership about this when I needed to grab something.

The whole mark-up thing, as far as his knowledge goes(he's been in the trade for a while now), is more popular in the States. He said that Canadian dealerships aren't allowed to do this. He said that a Dodge dealership was caught marking up the Hellcats, and Dodge wasn't exactly happy about that.

That said, he predicted that the availability of Type R is gonna be tight everywhere. He also said that his buddy actually pre-ordered one and he can't wait to sit in it.[emoji1]

Your point about how everyone is gonna rev at you is probably true. It's gonna be a headache living somewhere all those 'Murican muscles and trucks...

Sent via MHA-L29. Whatever.
 
#67 ·
The phenomenon that I anticipate in the next dozen or so years as the manual trans is gradually "phased out" is that die hards like myself will hang on to them until they can't be maintained any more. The market is relatively rich in used cars with manual transmissions right now, granted you can't have your pick of every color and every trim level like you can with an auto, but still. A perfect example for anyone who cares; my wife has decided she wants a small, manual trans car for a commuter. I am looking at dozens of choices, one in particular is the Mazda2. There are literally half a dozen cars available east of the Mississippi! They are all, stripped out Sport trim level cars with roll up windows and zero options. If you want a Touring, with all the trimmings you have no choice but to get one with the four speed automatic. A FOUR speed auto!? in a car with maybe 85 WHP? The lack of availability has led me away from the Mazda, towards things like the Honda Fit (my 1st choice in fact) and the Chevy Cruze Eco (which can be had for amazingly cheap) My daily driven Accord I will keep until I, or it dies.
 
#73 ·
Rev matching is mostly on downshifts?

So if I am coasting towards traffic I need to step on the gas to slow down like a professional?

They said leaving the car in gear saves fuel so when slowing down I just downshift on my 02 Civic usually only until 3rd gear since it will be jolty to go to 2nd and after just go directly to neutral.

I think rev matching only makes sense to me when I want to accelerate faster and need to downshift. If that is the case, I do put some rev matching by stepping on the gas pedal before the lower gear is engaged but I am sure it is not perfect nor do I care. I don't usually need to downshift to accelerate except a few times entering a highway.
 
#74 ·
Rev matching takes the strain off the whole system. I taught my wife and my daughter to rev match, and the only clutch we had to replace was my '76 Celica GT, and at 100K. We gave our daughter the 2003 LX with about 60K miles, and when we got rid of it at 192K miles it still had the original clutch.
 
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