[Holton345]

EDIT: The title should say VTC. I did not see the mistake until it was posted, and we cannot go back and correct our titles. Sorry, folks!

As of some time in March of last year, Honda issued the long-awaited, oft-promised update to the poorly designed VTC Actuator. If you still have low enough miles to try and get your dealership to piddle with this the info needed is below. If you want to do your own work, like me, the TSB is actually more than a notice. It is a full repair guide, and it is excellent. Grab a copy today. I am never sure how long any given link on the WWW is going to be active. If it disappears I will post a Public link to my Dropbox if you ask me nicely. (Heh, heh...)

Honda came out with a corrected part (finally, after years of waiting). The original part number was 14310-R44-A01 and the replacement (as of some time in March of 2016) is 14310-R5A-305. There is a Honda Service Bulletin that details the repair, and a link has been posted below to the most current version at the time I posted this, which is March 17, 2016.

Genuine Honda VTC Actuator - 14310-R5A-305
http://stores.ebay.com/HONDAPARTSHUB...p2047675.l2563
This is a link to the seller's eBay store so you can contact them. I bought mine for $138 shipped. It was the last one for that auction. Doubtless, more will be posted by them in the future. This link will allow you to contact them. Their prices and Feedback were the best at the time I made my purchase.

Hondabond HT Liquid Silicone Gasket - 08718-0004
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Honda Service Bulletin 09-010 - March 17, 2016
http://m.honda.oemdtc.com/TSB/A09-010.pdf

I also uploaded the PDF of the TSB directly into this post. Good luck. Do it yourself. Screw the dealerships! HAHAHA!!! : devil

 

[greg24]

Thanks for uploading all that info into one thread, I am sure may will find this helpful. I am sure I was one of the first to receive the new part, and unfortunately it too will rattle at times. Others that have received the new part have also confirmed this. It is still a huge improvement, for me anyway as the old part would rattle even in the summer. This one only does it below 40 and even then not all the time. Still though I was hoping it would completely resolve the rattle.

 

[Holton345]

Wow! That is disappointing to hear! Oh well, any improvement will be a good thing. Ours makes the noise when it is 100º outside. If we have not started it within a few hours it makes the noise. Anytime. Any climate. I cannot wait to fix this.

I even decided to drop the coin on the Honda specialty tools to set the valve lash before buttoning everything up. (They are listed in the TSB.) I see a use for them in the future, so why not?

I like specialty tools. I own lots of Miller Specialty Tools' stuff for my Jeeps. They helped me tons when re-gearing my axles, etc. I found an aftermarket tool on Amazon that looked like it might be a bit sketchy, despite the high ratings. The factory tool is solid as you can imagine. So I got it. Hope I do not see it in my box in three years and have buyer's remorse.

I think it will be a good purchase, and I am going to keep telling myself that... ;-)

I wonder what is causing the clatter and why, after all this time, they still do not have a 100% fix for it? What a weird problem for Honda. It seems like something you would see in Dodge cars in the 1980s and not an Accord.

 

[greg24]

Wow! That is disappointing to hear! Oh well, any improvement will be a good thing. Ours makes the noise when it is 100º outside. If we have not started it within a few hours it makes the noise. Anytime. Any climate. I cannot wait to fix this.

I even decided to drop the coin on the Honda specialty tools to set the valve lash before buttoning everything up. (They are listed in the TSB.) I see a use for them in the future, so why not?

I like specialty tools. I own lots of Miller Specialty Tools' stuff for my Jeeps. They helped me tons when re-gearing my axles, etc. I found an aftermarket tool on Amazon that looked like it might be a bit sketchy, despite the high ratings. The factory tool is solid as you can imagine. So I got it. Hope I do not see it in my box in three years and have buyer's remorse.

I think it will be a good purchase, and I am going to keep telling myself that... ;-)

I wonder what is causing the clatter and why, after all this time, they still do not have a 100% fix for it? What a weird problem for Honda. It seems like something you would see in Dodge cars in the 1980s and not an Accord.

Yes, it absolutely is worth replacing it. Like I said, for me it only rattles below 40 degrees now and even then not every time. A huge improvement over rattling at least 50% of the time in all climates.

 

[E.I]

Bought my car used I didn't know about this issue then, I have 155k on it now, it does the rattling daily, Is my motor a ticking time bomb? what's the scenarios here? if I don't change it

 

[MobileChicane00]

This issue affects A LOT of cars - Accords, CRVs, Civic SIs, TSXs - pretty much anything with the 2.4. The internet is filled with people commenting on the noise. What's notable is the lack of people complaining about engine damage from a failed unit. I only tracked down one account where a VTC failure allegedly led to engine damage, and the circumstances surrounding this suggested that other factors caused the engine damage.

 

[Holton345]

... Is my motor a ticking time bomb?

I have read many accounts from all the way back when this issue was new (2008 or so) on up to fairly recently that claim official responses (written or verbal) from various Honda sources to state that it cannot harm the engine. I have not read any of these first hand.

I have read ONE claim that I have seen quoted in a number of places that it *could* cause valves to impact piston tops if it allows the chain to slip (or jump?) a tooth. I tend to believe Honda in this case, as I have never read (or seen video) of one of these after failure that led to such damage. That does not mean it has not happened. It is just that most people affected by this problem are probably never going to post here, on YouTube, or anywhere else. I just think it odd that in such a community as this (DA) that NO ONE has had a failure like this, unless Honda is being accurate in saying it is not a "ticking time bomb" as you say.

I do all my own work these days. So, for me, whether it is a possible engine killer doesn't matter. If it is messed up *at all* I will fix it. Problem or not, it bugs the crap out of me. ;-)

As far as which vehicles are concerned, there are MANY. Here is a quote from one of my above links:

 

[08EX-L]

Any news on this if there is a perm fix?

 

[j_rider]

I wrote Honda Customer Service a letter about the VTC issue and they paid for half of my bill at my local Honda Dealership, so better than nothing. I do my own auto work as well, but I just don't feel comfortable messing with timing chains; maybe I would if I had a technician supervising me, but aside from that, it's a hard pass from me.

 

[boring 08 EX]

I believe that the R5A actuator IS the permanent fix as far as Honda North America is concerned. I had mine done about a year ago and it has rattled exactly ONE time since. Prior to the repair mine would rattle on every single cold start, regardless of temperature. The rattle/grind is caused by the locking pin inside the actuator being in the wrong position at start-up which causes the actuator (attached to the end of the camshaft) to drag until the pin can get itself into the proper position. This small drag on the cam causes the timing chain to lash against the tensioner and guides every single time it happens. Over many repetitions and how ever many thousands of miles this WILL cause the timing chain tensioner to weaken and eventually fail. It is the damage to the tensioner that causes the damage to the engine, not the VTC actuator itself. Can you drive with the rattle, for years and many thousands of miles? Yes Is it a good idea to roll the dice this way? No Honda knows all of this, and what chaps me is that they continue to allow people to spend their own money to fix their engineering snafu.

 

[turtleh]

Thanks, I was replaced with the old part by Honda Canada after pleading with them. Still had to pay local dealership for labour costs =(

It's been about 3 years hopefully it doesn' happen again.

 

[Libjsc2514]

I believe that the R5A actuator IS the permanent fix as far as Honda North America is concerned. I had mine done about a year ago and it has rattled exactly ONE time since. Prior to the repair mine would rattle on every single cold start, regardless of temperature. The rattle/grind is caused by the locking pin inside the actuator being in the wrong position at start-up which causes the actuator (attached to the end of the camshaft) to drag until the pin can get itself into the proper position. This small drag on the cam causes the timing chain to lash against the tensioner and guides every single time it happens. Over many repetitions and how ever many thousands of miles this WILL cause the timing chain tensioner to weaken and eventually fail. It is the damage to the tensioner that causes the damage to the engine, not the VTC actuator itself. Can you drive with the rattle, for years and many thousands of miles? Yes Is it a good idea to roll the dice this way? No Honda knows all of this, and what chaps me is that they continue to allow people to spend their own money to fix their engineering snafu.

Since locking pin in actuator is in wrong position at start up and causes grinding sound, is there a way to shut car down so pin is in the right position.

 

[boring 08 EX]

Unfortunately no, there is no way for you, as the driver, to control what that actuator is going to do. The new part number IS an improvement in most cases, as it stops the malfunction from occurring either entirely or reduces the incidence of failure by a large percentage. People early on swore by the "key trick", thinking that oil pressure (or the presence of oil in the top half of the motor) was the solution, but that has largely been proven false.

 

[internalaudit]

If I have extended warranty until end of next year, can I force Honda Canada to replace my VTC actuator? To be honest, I've only heard some grind twice two or three winters ago but my wife drives the car a lot more often and she pays little attention to these noises.

It's a 2011 Accord and I'm pretty sure the newly built actuator wasn't available back then.

 

[boring 08 EX]

If you take it to them they are going to keep it over-night and see if they can "duplicate the malfunction". If it doesn't grind for them , you will probably have a tough row to hoe in getting them to fix it on their dime. If you yell and scream loud enough they may cave in, but I would be ready for a fight.

 

[08EX-L]

My understanding when it came to the locking pin it had to be in the right position during install or Honda said it would damage the new part and the rattle would return immediately.

VTC Actuator Removal and Installation 538

The sound itself I was always under the impression had solely to do with the lack of oil at start up and straight metal on metal contact between the gear and the chain.

 

[internalaudit]

My car still has extended warranty so the dealership will have some incentive to fix it if it's not hard to do. Just not sure if Honda fixed the issue with the 2011/12 models even with the older VTC actuator design. Even my 02 Civic never has the grinding noise.

 

[08EX-L]

My car still has extended warranty so the dealership will have some incentive to fix it if it's not hard to do. Just not sure if Honda fixed the issue with the 2011/12 models even with the older VTC actuator design. Even my 02 Civic never has the grinding noise.

This problem is related to the workings of the K24Z motor. The CRV, TSX, and Accord have all had this problem. I don't think I have heard anyone with an Si have the problem even though the engines are very similar. A fix for a 2008 should resolve the issue with any other model year that shares the same engine.

 

[Rattmann]

Hello all,
VTC needs to be replaced ASAP if rattling is heard.
You also MUST also replace tensioner and VTC oil control solenoid

R5A is new design for this problem on all k24 motors.
New R5A solenoid has been redesigned to prevent the oil from draining out of the VTC actuator when the engine is turned off. Therefore, at start up there is a lock pin in Lock Position inside the actuator as well as engine oil to prevent any future wear and damage to the lock pin.

If you take a chance and continue to drive with the rattle problem, then the timing chain will become Stretched, Plastic Chain Guides will crack, and tensioner will give out.

I lost my car engine on 2008 Accord ExLnavi due to intake valve that broke from its keeper because of the excessive vibrations caused by the faulty VTC and Honda at that time was not able to duplicate the symptoms.

I was given factory new 2011 version K24Z3 at 50Kmiles under warranty.
This engine also developed same VTC issues and Honda failed to help me out.

So I changed the components myself all 3 parts
VTC Actuator +
VTC oil control Solenoid +
Chain Tensioner
but also, VTC mesh

I did not remove the chain cover and everything easy to time with cylinder #1 in TDC. Everything has timing marks on them,
e.g. chain has golden color for the cam mark (s) at TDC (Top Dead Center)
Hope this helps

Remember, when your chain comes off for whatever reason and your engine now needs a new Head and pistons ($4-5K), you cannot prove that Honda did not issue a safety recall to fix the issue.
Because usually VTC related issue will only be at start up and not really when the engine is running....therefore not a safety concern.

 

[internalaudit]

Thanks, I was replaced with the old part by Honda Canada after pleading with them. Still had to pay local dealership for labour costs =(

It's been about 3 years hopefully it doesn' happen again.

Anyone else had success with Honda Canada?

I'll send them a link to the TSB and let them know my 11 Accord's extended warranty doesn't end until mid-December of this year and I'd like for them to initiate the repair request with my local dealership.