1st oil change done at 8,070 miles when MM at 5% - Drive Accord Honda Forums
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post #1 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 05:30 AM Thread Starter
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1st oil change done at 8,070 miles when MM at 5%

Maintenance minder had been at 5% for a while, figured it would drop to 0 any day. Dealer was very fast, done in about 20 minutes. They recommended not going that long on the oil. I reminded them that maintenance minder said to leave original oil in as long as possible and to change at no sooner than 15%. He then tried to say that from now on, I should change it closer to 5k, because my timing chain could suffer. Uh, only if my oil levels are low and I check it every 2k miles. I will be back when maintenance minder is back down to 5%.

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post #2 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 05:35 AM
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They want MONEY, unless they're doing it for free.

Honda engineers knew what they were doing when they implemented the MM. Follow it, you'll be fine.

Do you know what oil and filter they used?


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post #3 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 05:37 AM
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Cool story. Thanks for sharing.

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post #4 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 05:44 AM
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Your timing chain can wear for reasons other than low oil level: oil that's been diluted by fuel or full of tiny sooty particles that direct injected engines produce, for example. Also, keep in mind that Honda's oil life monitor is programmed assuming its own synthetic blend 0w-20 is used. Who knows if your dealer used an oil that good or better?

And if you're going to adopt the manual as gospel, your might want to follow its advice about checking oil level: every time you refuel, not every 2,000 miles.
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post #5 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 06:02 AM
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You read your owner's manual and act accordingly.....

One of the dealers near me has an "architect's file cabinet"- it is very large and can accommodate large placards. They have a "Honda Recommends" service for each 1,000 mile increment, so that when a customer pulls in with 8,040 miles on the odometer, or 11,175 miles, or 103,000 miles- there is an official-looking large placard that can brought out with large Honda logos stamped all over it (makes it official) with your mileage in huge font size.

My friend works as a Toyota salesman, so at gatherings, off days, and holiday parties I stop by sometimes at his work to say hello. I met a bunch of the service writers and these guys can read customers like a champion poker player can read opponents. Didn't read your owner's manual? They look at you as if you are a food source. Some of these guys earn north of 100K a year because most customers never read their owner's manual.

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Your timing chain can wear for reasons other than low oil level: oil that's been diluted by fuel or full of tiny sooty particles that direct injected engines produce, for example. Also, keep in mind that Honda's oil life monitor is programmed assuming its own synthetic blend 0w-20 is used. Who knows if your dealer used an oil that good or better?
While theoretical "on paper", real world figures have yet to show Honda's direct injection in the 4 cylinder engine to cause oil dilution due to fuel entering the oil. And on 6th, 7th, and 8th Gen engines- which do not use DI, this does not happen.

It did happen to me on my 1991 Nissan 240sx- a fuel injector was stuck open, and leaked fuel down the cylinder. The engine lost some power, and started to shake a little. When I checked the oil dipstick- it was full of gas. I mean, the level was all the way to the top of the dipstick and smelled like a gas station!

The good news was that when I changed the valve cover gasket and spark plug tube gaskets a week later, the top of the engine was shiny and super clean, lol. Installed remanufactured fuel injectors and all is good.
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post #6 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by RickBlaine View Post
Some of these guys earn north of 100K a year because most customers never read their owner's manual.
So that makes them the experts right?? LOL

I'd like to find a job making that kind of ching because someone else doesn't read the manual for the 25k tool they bought.

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post #7 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 06:51 AM
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I'd like to find a job making that kind of ching because someone else doesn't read the manual for the 25k tool they bought.
I couldn't do it. It's basically lying and thieving. I'm the car guy here at work and am constantly being asked about car issues. I do all I can to save people dough.
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post #8 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 06:53 AM
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To change oil at 5% = paying 5% more for the oil used. I changed mine at 0%.
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post #9 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBlaine View Post
You read your owner's manual and act accordingly.....

One of the dealers near me has an "architect's file cabinet"- it is very large and can accommodate large placards. They have a "Honda Recommends" service for each 1,000 mile increment, so that when a customer pulls in with 8,040 miles on the odometer, or 11,175 miles, or 103,000 miles- there is an official-looking large placard that can brought out with large Honda logos stamped all over it (makes it official) with your mileage in huge font size.

My friend works as a Toyota salesman, so at gatherings, off days, and holiday parties I stop by sometimes at his work to say hello. I met a bunch of the service writers and these guys can read customers like a champion poker player can read opponents. Didn't read your owner's manual? They look at you as if you are a food source. Some of these guys earn north of 100K a year because most customers never read their owner's manual.



While theoretical "on paper", real world figures have yet to show Honda's direct injection in the 4 cylinder engine to cause oil dilution due to fuel entering the oil. And on 6th, 7th, and 8th Gen engines- which do not use DI, this does not happen.

It did happen to me on my 1991 Nissan 240sx- a fuel injector was stuck open, and leaked fuel down the cylinder. The engine lost some power, and started to shake a little. When I checked the oil dipstick- it was full of gas. I mean, the level was all the way to the top of the dipstick and smelled like a gas station!

The good news was that when I changed the valve cover gasket and spark plug tube gaskets a week later, the top of the engine was shiny and super clean, lol. Installed remanufactured fuel injectors and all is good.
Actually, there's quite a bit of fuel dilution evidence for DI K24Ws. Take a look at the video posted on this forum where a used oil analysis by Oil Analyzers shows dilution over 5%. My 2015 CRV has shown > 5% dilution on 4 out of 5 used oil analyses. And if you see any UOAs from Blackstone recognize its methodlology is flawed and add 3 or 4 percentage points.

Honda has looked at my car and declared it "normal", so I conclude fuel dilution is not uncommon. Now, whether or not it's harmful an open question, but I'm erring on the side of caution and perform oil changes more frequently that the oil life monitor suggests.
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post #10 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 07:26 AM
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I couldn't do it. It's basically lying and thieving. I'm the car guy here at work and am constantly being asked about car issues. I do all I can to save people dough.
Agreed - should have made my sarcasm a little thicker.

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post #11 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 07:37 AM
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To change oil at 5% = paying 5% more for the oil used. I changed mine at 0%.
I just did my oil change this past weekend and it was something like -12 lmfao.

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Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Maintenance minder had been at 5% for a while, figured it would drop to 0 any day. Dealer was very fast, done in about 20 minutes. They recommended not going that long on the oil. I reminded them that maintenance minder said to leave original oil in as long as possible and to change at no sooner than 15%. He then tried to say that from now on, I should change it closer to 5k, because my timing chain could suffer. Uh, only if my oil levels are low and I check it every 2k miles. I will be back when maintenance minder is back down to 5%.
Good for you! I don't understand why the dealer's keep trying to run things the way it used to be (3 months or 3K miles). My '06 Expedition was supposed to be changed like every 6K, and now 10 years later with synthetic oil and what not, it should be done the same way for these more advanced engines? I call BS.

I'm not the best at keeping up with my maintenance considering my track record on my '02 Accord, but I would sometimes go like 10K miles in between oil changes on that car, and still got 406K miles on that engine. With this one, I'm doing better. I haven't gone more than "-1K" on the MM haha. I'll have to check my records and will update my signature with the negative miles as a good reference for everyone here

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Oil Change - 10K, 19.8K, 29K, 39.8K, 50.6K, 61.3K, 72.1K, 83.7K, 95.3K, 107K
Transmission Fluid - 51.1K, 107K, 151K
Headlights - Left; 98K Right; 102K
Alternator Belt - 150K
Auto Tensioner Assembly - 120K
FOB Battery - 2.5 years
Car Battery - 123K (went from 51R to Walmart 35S)
Coolant Drain and Flush - 140K
Alternator (pulley went bad) - 162K

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post #12 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 07:55 AM
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Actually, there's quite a bit of fuel dilution evidence for DI K24Ws. Take a look at the video posted on this forum where a used oil analysis by Oil Analyzers shows dilution over 5%. My 2015 CRV has shown > 5% dilution on 4 out of 5 used oil analyses. And if you see any UOAs from Blackstone recognize its methodlology is flawed and add 3 or 4 percentage points.

Honda has looked at my car and declared it "normal", so I conclude fuel dilution is not uncommon. Now, whether or not it's harmful an open question, but I'm erring on the side of caution and perform oil changes more frequently that the oil life monitor suggests.
You have done 5 oil analysis on a 2015 CRV?!?! It is January 2017!

You seem hell bent on stating that one analysis lab is inferior to another. Fine with me, but you seem to be searching for something wrong and justifying it by talking about oil dilution in Honda engines.

What is the oil dilution level in non-direct injection engines? What single instance can you point to to show this is a problem?

Volkswagen has had DI for 15 years now, I have not heard of engine failures because of fuel in the oil- and I have not heard this is a problem, period.
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post #13 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 07:59 AM
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Volkswagen has had DI for 15 years now, I have not heard of engine failures because of fuel in the oil- and I have not heard this is a problem, period.
We had a VW Passat. Drove comfy, but it was a VW. We gave it to my wife's brother, and he drove it into a ditch. I blame fuel dilution. Now you've heard of 1 problem.
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post #14 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 08:14 AM
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I stand (sit) corrected! Thank you.
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post #15 of 68 Old 01-11-2017, 12:54 PM
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Well they aren't trying to just get money out of you. The oil is there to lubricate AND trap foreign particles. So it would be safe to assume that the longer you run your oil, the more contaminates are in it.

Take Toyota's 2az-fe 2.4 for example. If you don't do 2500 mile oil changes, you wind up doing your timing guide sooner. This because the contaminates in dirty oil are like sandpaper, and eat away at the nylon on the guide.

Granted it would take longer to wear the metal parts this way; keep in mind that the consumables in the timing set will be consumed far faster with dirty oil, than with regularly changed oil.

I've always stood behind the 3k mile rule. Though I always do mine at 2500.

The dirtier your oil, the higher grit liquid sandpaper you get. And nylon doesn't like that too much.....

EDIT.
For the record, I have never worked at a shop or stealership. And I have always done everything to my own vehicles. Nothing in it for me to BS to make you change your oil sooner.

Just food for thought.

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