Push to Start reliability - Drive Accord Honda Forums
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post #1 of 29 Old 05-15-2017, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Push to Start reliability

Hey guys,

New to the forum (although I have visited it in the past to pick up on ideas like one bucket and two bucket wash)
I own a 2013 Honda EX-L that I purchased in Aug 2013, the car has push to start. It recently crossed 37k miles.

I took it to the dealer for the service that the maintenance reminder suggested and while there they noticed my brakes needed changing (they were not off, the old girl was making the noises a well used brake would when down to its last mm)
I had them do the brakes on my car. This was a a few weeks ago.

Ever since then, my push to start has been giving my trouble.
Earlier I could easily push the brakes and hit the button to start the car, but since my last trip to the dealer I have noticed that pushing the clutch even a little off the complete range of motion a clutch can move results in my car turning ON (electrics) but not Starting (engine) .
Initially I blamed myself for hastiness and not pressing the clutch/brake all the way but seeing this happen so often, I began paying attention to how much i push the pedal and when I am off by even a bit that car coughs in an attempt to start and gives up.... so the car is ON (Power Is ON message) but not started. Takes a few tries of On-Off cycles by hitting the button and pushing the pedal to get it started.

I was curious if it is tied to the work at the dealership or the starter or something else (honda service bulletin 16-002).

I called the dealer who want me to bring it in and will fix it if its their fault but if not they will charge $200 which is ugh.

Also should I get it fixed or is it a minotr annoyance I can learn to live with that does not damage the car in the long/short term.


I am just going to go with a good old key on my next Honda
Thanks for any insight on the matter! Appreciate the time and efforts!

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post #2 of 29 Old 05-15-2017, 01:53 PM
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It could be as simple as the cutout switches on one or both pedals is out of spec, or needs replacing. I'd say let the dealer check it out and see what they discover.


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post #3 of 29 Old 05-15-2017, 02:49 PM
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It could be dealer had worked on the car and left the battery drained.
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post #4 of 29 Old 05-15-2017, 03:09 PM
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I would suspect the switches for the pedals as well, especially the clutch pedal. Modern MT cars require you to push the clutch pedal all the way to be able to crank the car. Does it feel different(different grab point)? You might want to ask the dealership if they adjusted the clutch.

Based on your symptoms, I doubt if it's the battery, but it doesn't hurt to check it.

I wouldn't say it's the push start button, and quite frankly, I don't get why people hate the push button start. I test drove a MINI before and that has a switch in the centre console you flick to start the car, and my RX-8 has a knob you twist like a key to crank the car, which can be taken off to reveal a keyhole; you put the auxiliary key in the keyhole if your car key "card" battery dies.

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post #5 of 29 Old 05-15-2017, 04:34 PM
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Sure sounds like one of those pedal switches is misaligned, but you might also check to make sure the battery terminals are clean and connections are tight.
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post #6 of 29 Old 05-15-2017, 04:48 PM
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What did the dealership do to the car when you brought it in?

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post #7 of 29 Old 05-15-2017, 05:43 PM
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Remember, if the fob battery dies, hold it next to the start button and it will start. I have tested this with the battery out of the fob and it works.

Another keyless start tip: If ever in an unintended acceleration panic like Camry drivers who along with 911 operators advising them failed to think to downshift to a lower gear or put the car in neutral, you must hold the push button 2 SECONDS TO SHUT THE ENGINE OFF WHILE AT SPEED. People don't read the manual and fail to understand how things work in an emergency and they die. Toyota drivers were clueless. At 60 MPH you're going 88 ft per second so 2 seconds is more than half the length of a football field. This is a fail safe mechanism so if the push button is accidentally hit, it won't shut the car off. In a last resort emergency like Camry, shutting the engine off won't lock the steering wheel, remember you're in D or preferably N and the wheel locks only in P. My Volvo won't shut off in D, you must go to N ot P
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post #8 of 29 Old 05-15-2017, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by II Kings 9:20 View Post
Remember, if the fob battery dies, hold it next to the start button and it will start. I have tested this with the battery out of the fob and it works.

Another keyless start tip: If ever in an unintended acceleration panic like Camry drivers who along with 911 operators advising them failed to think to downshift to a lower gear or put the car in neutral, you must hold the push button 2 SECONDS TO SHUT THE ENGINE OFF WHILE AT SPEED. People don't read the manual and fail to understand how things work in an emergency and they die. Toyota drivers were clueless. At 60 MPH you're going 88 ft per second so 2 seconds is more than half the length of a football field. This is a fail safe mechanism so if the push button is accidentally hit, it won't shut the car off. In a last resort emergency like Camry, shutting the engine off won't lock the steering wheel, remember you're in D or preferably N and the wheel locks only in P. My Volvo won't shut off in D, you must go to N ot P
My guess is that it still has an ignition chip like a traditional key does, so if you hold it close enough, it will be able to detect the signal.

And I recall that in my AT V6 Accord, I can shut off the engine in D, although there are certain cars that don't allow you to do this, like an AT RX-8(here you go, another reason why AT RX-8 sucks) or your Volvo(what happened to the "safety first" stereotype?). Then again, you can't really blame AT drivers. When was the last time you really used N?

OP has a MT, so in an emergency, push in the clutch, move it out of gear, and use the brakes. You can probably shut it off as soon as you push in the clutch. It's not like the engine or the transmission really knows which gear you are in. That probably means that the steering wheel stays unlocked as long as the engine is on.

If the engine is off, you will probably lose power steering. If you have an electric one you might still have that, but a hydraulic system is run by the engine, you will definitely lose that.
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post #9 of 29 Old 05-15-2017, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
I would suspect the switches for the pedals as well, especially the clutch pedal. Modern MT cars require you to push the clutch pedal all the way to be able to crank the car. Does it feel different(different grab point)? You might want to ask the dealership if they adjusted the clutch.

Based on your symptoms, I doubt if it's the battery, but it doesn't hurt to check it.

I wouldn't say it's the push start button, and quite frankly, I don't get why people hate the push button start. I test drove a MINI before and that has a switch in the centre console you flick to start the car, and my RX-8 has a knob you twist like a key to crank the car, which can be taken off to reveal a keyhole; you put the auxiliary key in the keyhole if your car key "card" battery dies.
Plenty of "older cars" with the system have failed leaving you taking extra steps to start the car or not start at all. For me and the Accord Push to start for USDM Accord cancels out what I wanted in a car. I also like the key being simple back to basics tech in a world of who has the most features tossed in a car market. Only real features I miss not having an EX is sail panel speakers and heated mirrors with turn signals. After seeing a Canadian SMR Sport with the mirrors I may have hope on that project since my mirrors are still frosted over in the mornings here.

TL;DR I seen it fail and want less things to fail in the event I decide to keep the car after lease is up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by II Kings 9:20 View Post
Remember, if the fob battery dies, hold it next to the start button and it will start. I have tested this with the battery out of the fob and it works.

Another keyless start tip: If ever in an unintended acceleration panic like Camry drivers who along with 911 operators advising them failed to think to downshift to a lower gear or put the car in neutral, you must hold the push button 2 SECONDS TO SHUT THE ENGINE OFF WHILE AT SPEED. People don't read the manual and fail to understand how things work in an emergency and they die. Toyota drivers were clueless. At 60 MPH you're going 88 ft per second so 2 seconds is more than half the length of a football field. This is a fail safe mechanism so if the push button is accidentally hit, it won't shut the car off. In a last resort emergency like Camry, shutting the engine off won't lock the steering wheel, remember you're in D or preferably N and the wheel locks only in P. My Volvo won't shut off in D, you must go to N ot P
Push to start 9 gens won't lock the wheel even parked. That came up either here or the FB group when someone asked and the owners manual confirmed it. I went back to the manual now and couldn't find that push to start never locks wheel part. What you speak of is page 121 in physical 2 door book or 68 in pdf. There actually was a what if video with a Fusion on the button, fob and park/reverse while driving.

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post #10 of 29 Old 05-15-2017, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc6 View Post
Plenty of "older cars" with the system have failed leaving you taking extra steps to start the car or not start at all. For me and the Accord Push to start for USDM Accord cancels out what I wanted in a car. I also like the key being simple back to basics tech in a world of who has the most features tossed in a car market. Only real features I miss not having an EX is sail panel speakers and heated mirrors with turn signals. After seeing a Canadian SMR Sport with the mirrors I may have hope on that project since my mirrors are still frosted over in the mornings here.

TL;DR I seen it fail and want less things to fail in the event I decide to keep the car after lease is up.
But then a key lock cylinder can also fail. And you won't be going anywhere if your cylinder gets messed up.

I can see how the chance of a button failing is slightly higher than a lock cylinder, but probably not to the point where people should develop irrational fear towards it. Push start button was also on the S2000, remember, although the S2000 also had a key system which you use to shut the engine off.

Realistically, a car that can't have things failing would be like my Corolla. Can't have power mirrors or windows failing if they are manual; can't have an AC compressor failure if there is no AC. But that comes with its own problems. Try parallel parking without the ability to tilt the passenger side mirror down easily(although I don't really care if the Corolla's wheels get scraped); try rolling down the windows, holding the steering wheel, and shifting(MT) at the same time; try living in a hot climate without AC. It's doable, and for an 18-year-old CAN$1000 econobox, that's alright, but for anything more than that car, I would expect more. The security on the Corolla is also basically non-existent. It locks and that's about it. I wouldn't be surprised if you can just use the good old screw driver trick on that car.

My favorite system is probably the one in the RX-8(and some other Mazda cars at that time). It basically combines the traditional keyless entry system with the traditional key start system(you can take the plastic knob off and use the auxiliary key) and the convenience of not needing to remove the key from your pocket like a push button start(the security system will detect the key "card" in your pocket and allow you to turn the knob). Basically pleases everyone out there. Really, it's the best of both worlds. - Jeremy Clarkson, in the Top Gear RX-8 episode
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post #11 of 29 Old 05-16-2017, 02:09 AM
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It's not like the ignition switches never failed. Once in a blue moon, my 7th gen would fail to do anything when I turned the key. It would start if I put the car in neutral, pointing to the safety switch, but this was never confirmed.

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post #12 of 29 Old 05-16-2017, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc6 View Post
Plenty of "older cars" with the system have failed leaving you taking extra steps to start the car or not start at all. For me and the Accord Push to start for USDM Accord cancels out what I wanted in a car. I also like the key being simple back to basics tech in a world of who has the most features tossed in a car market. Only real features I miss not having an EX is sail panel speakers and heated mirrors with turn signals. After seeing a Canadian SMR Sport with the mirrors I may have hope on that project since my mirrors are still frosted over in the mornings here.

TL;DR I seen it fail and want less things to fail in the event I decide to keep the car after lease is up.



Push to start 9 gens won't lock the wheel even parked. That came up either here or the FB group when someone asked and the owners manual confirmed it. I went back to the manual now and couldn't find that push to start never locks wheel part. What you speak of is page 121 in physical 2 door book or 68 in pdf. There actually was a what if video with a Fusion on the button, fob and park/reverse while driving.
I remember some time ago someone here talking about 9th gen steering wheels don't lock even in P. Some how, I believe my early 9th gen does lock, I'll check and holla back. I think this is an EPS feature but if you think about it, no wheel lock ever stopped a car from being stolen. I used a Club external wheel lock 30 years ago and that would cause a young punk to pass on and move to the next car but even a semi-pro would just cut the steering wheel and slip it off if he wanted the car.

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post #13 of 29 Old 05-16-2017, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by II Kings 9:20 View Post
I remember some time ago someone here talking about 9th gen steering wheels don't lock even in P. Some how, I believe my early 9th gen does lock, I'll check and holla back. I think this is an EPS feature but if you think about it, no wheel lock ever stopped a car from being stolen. I used a Club external wheel lock 30 years ago and that would cause a young punk to pass on and move to the next car but even a semi-pro would just cut the steering wheel and slip it off if he wanted the car.


Honda quietly removed the electronic steering wheel lock feature from the 2015 model and it's been gone ever since. Longer term I would be concerned about it's reliability. What if it breaks?

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post #14 of 29 Old 05-16-2017, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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It could be dealer had worked on the car and left the battery drained.
It was a thought but the rest of the components that need power seem to power on, just the car engine that won't start
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post #15 of 29 Old 05-16-2017, 07:05 AM Thread Starter
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Thats an interesting thing to note, so its similar to what tesla does where you place the key on a certain spot. cool stuff.
thanks!

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