I am looking for a good solid first car for my daughter. I happened to come across a '97 Accord EX V6 with 82,000 miles that was traded in on a new Subaru. It has all the bells and whistles, including sunroof, CD, leather. The tires are Michelin MXV with < 10k on them. There is no sign of body damage, although a few bumper scratches, a nailhead size chip on the hood (with a little rust) and some of the gaskets around the glass and body are showing their age.

On a test drive, the engine was responsive and relatively smooth, with nice acceleration. The trans jerked mildly from 1st to 2nd, but didn't seem unusual. The blower motor rumbled on the highest setting and the wiper arms need to be replaced. The sunroof works but is a little noisy - almost seems to slam shut and pop open.

Asking price is $6995, and Edmunds sets the TRADE value in the high $7k range, and the private party value over $8k. I am fairly certain I could drive it away for $6500.

I am in no hurry to buy, but I am on the lookout for a super deal if I see one. My goal is to find a good solid car that I don't need to carry collision coverage on, and that won't send me into a panic with every scratch.

What I need from you guys is observations and recommendations re: this specific vehicle. What problems/recalls/TSB's were significant on the '97's? What chronic issues might I look for? Are the '97 auto transmissions pretty solid?

I can buy a powertrain only warranty for $180 from this dealer if I want - engine and trans only.

So please - let the info flow...!


:scratch:

It seems like the '97's haven't had that many problems. I think the body is light and the engine is not all that powerful, so they weren't having too many problems with it. The sunroof is normal, my '99 does it as well. It scares most anybody in the car that's not used to it when I close it, also because the switch is not in front of the sunroof but on the dash.

I'm never looking for a V6, especially in the 5th and 6th gen. They're not really much more powerful that the 4 cyl, especially since the 5th gen I4 EX had VTEC = 145HP. All other I4's are 132HP. I got my '99 EX cloth with 108K miles for $7200. With Honda's I'd say don't worry about the mileage, we all know they go forever. I've seen a 5th gen for sale with over 230K. It really depends on if you want your daughter driving a V6. I wouldn't because like I said it's not a big difference and the I4's seem to have more parts avail and such, and will probably give better gas mileage. I personally would have passed this one up without worrying about missing a good deal. If you get them down to $6000 with a CarFax to make sure it's clean, I might change my mind :)

In that year range the V6's didn't do too bad out of the hole, but they didn't have the expected top end speed. They weren't prone to problems & that's important. A Hondas dealer would have the recalls & such in the computer. Take the VIN# & have them check it out.

With 82K, you're looking at a timing belt, water pump change soon. (90K). Not something to scare you away, just keep it in mind when negociating the price.

If the seals are looking weathered then she spent most of her life parked outside with little maintaince. As a general rule, if an owner doesn't put care into the outside the other maintaince is likely neglected. With the mileage, I'd have ALL the fluids changed just in case.

Good luck on the decision!!

With 82K, you're looking at a timing belt, water pump change soon. (90K)

Any idea what these would cost?

How about a replacement blower motor?



I'm thinking maybe I can take his asking price, list all the work it needs or should have, subtract it and come up with a bargain price - maybe even under $6000.

Thanks for the help...:blah:

Since the labor varies so much from area to area, I have no idea what it would be there.

It's about 5 hours for the TB, WP, etc. & about a half hour for the blower motor. Parts are pretty easy to call on. If fact, you can call & price it all at a Honda dealer in your area.

The needed maintaince can be a useful negotiating tool!!

NJ is a pretty developed state, I'd say the labor is about the same as in CA. Previous owner did my F23 water pump and timing belt for around $500, I suspect that yours will be around the same since it's basically the same engine. You can use slhondaparts.com to check part prices. They have a column for their price and a column for how much you save, if you add the two I bet you're gunna get the Honda MSRP and that's what a Honda dealer will charge you for it :)

Great input guys...thanks!

The thing that sticks with me is the comment about the weather seals as an indicator of how well the car was cared for. I'm thinking maybe i should hold out for a real "creampuff", where it's obvious the owner garaged it and babied it. Probably worth the extra money for that comfort level...

Wonder if there's any "Princess" - type owners in NJ???

;)

I'm sure there are! Since you're not in a hurry I'm sure you'll find one that's JUST RIGHT!!

My neighbors think I'm obsessed, but compared to many of you all.....I'm down right LAZY!!:D

I take back my comment, my car does not have the same engine as the '97. I forgot it was a V6, which traces its roots back to the old Legend V6 :) Helluva engine, I've seen them go over 250K, not bad.

Yeah take your time looking for a car, I mean unless you really need it. I took more than 1/2 year to find mine even though I was actually looking for 6 different models of cars. Just be aware that people who take care of their cars don't take it lightly, they're not going to let their car go for cheap. Sometimes, it's more worth it to just buy a slightly abused car. Honda's go forever, my friends redline daily with over 170K and it does fine. My other friend did 7K RPM on the freeway for 10 minutes trying to blow it up because he was going to do an engine swap right after that, but he couldn't do it. It ran perfect afterwards with more than 240K on the odo. And remember that just because the outside is not so great doesn't mean the maintenance isn't there! I take good care of mine, it just so happens I have no garage to put it in :D

Yeah, fluid changes are more important than washes! But when you find one that's had both.....& below the going rate....that's WONDERFUL!!:banana:

I've done it & helped a few others find them too. It can be done!!

Well, I see I only have 2 advisors here, but you 2 give a very balanced perspective (a little worried about Benji's friends though:eek: ).

Let's try it from this angle:

I have up to $9,000 to spend, but would like to stay in the $7,000 range to avoid having to carry very expensive collision coverage here in NJ. What are your suggestions from the following menu, considering model year history, engine integrity, etc.

'97, '98, or '99? (was '98 more troublesome as the first of a new generation?)

Has to be automatic trans (any of these years worse than the others?)

4 cyl or V6?

LX or EX?

On paper, it seems like I should look for a '99 EX, with < 70k miles, in decent shape...with a good deal being anything under $8,000...?

Even though the 6th gen has tranny issues, they did extend the warranty & mst that will have the problems have had them dealt with. So as far as year (gen) which ever one you like the feasures & styling of.

It may sound silly owning 2 of them, but in general I'd advise people to not buy the first year of any generation. The second year normally has the "bugs" worked out. But there again, when buying a used car the other owner has normally dealt with it already.

4 or 6? Obviously I'm partial! There was a bigger difference in gas mileage on the first round of V6's & not as big of a power difference, so it could be a waste of money. The 5th gen 4 cyl had a couple of engine things that were recalled, but again the previous owner would deal with that. (Our family had 2 of them & loved them)

LX or EX? Do you like moonroofs? Or are there any other bells or whistles you really want that was offered then? I haven't seen a difference in the quality or longevity between the two. That one is purely preference!:)

Originally posted by Pairallel
Well, I see I only have 2 advisors here, but you 2 give a very balanced perspective (a little worried about Benji's friends though:eek: ).

Let's try it from this angle:

I have up to $9,000 to spend, but would like to stay in the $7,000 range to avoid having to carry very expensive collision coverage here in NJ. What are your suggestions from the following menu, considering model year history, engine integrity, etc.

'97, '98, or '99? (was '98 more troublesome as the first of a new generation?)

Has to be automatic trans (any of these years worse than the others?)

4 cyl or V6?

LX or EX?

On paper, it seems like I should look for a '99 EX, with < 70k miles, in decent shape...with a good deal being anything under $8,000...?

I love answering this kind of question :) In CA Accords tend to go for a lot more than they do in other parts of the country, so my '99 with 108K for $7200 may seem a bit expensive, but it was actually 1K under KBB.

One thing I have to say is that the '98 is probably not what you're looking for. If you look closely, you notice the '98 actually had different seat stitching that they changed for '99 thru '02. I don't know why, but it seems like it might have been a bit of a problem. Also that extended warranty to my knowledge DOES NOT extend to the '98, only the '99-'02, double check that.

As a general rule, a newer car will have updated stuff that can't be seen. For instance, Princess mentioned once that the new '04 Odysseys actually have an updated tranny that doesn't have circulation problems, but this is not released to the general public. Also in my own research I notice that in the '99-'01 Odyssey 4-speed trannies, the former years tend to go sooner than the newer ones.

I'd have to say go for the V6. The I4 manual and V6 (auto) are very similar in acceleration, with a slight edge to the V6 on the highway. However you specified an auto. I'd have to say the auto I4 is almost underpowered, perhaps just a slight bit dangerous. As for gas mileage, I think you'd have to use so much more of the gas pedal in the I4 that the mileage will be about the same as the V6, if you know what I mean. However, the V6 does put out more power, meaning perhaps a sooner tranny replacement.

LX or EX? Not much difference, depends on how picky you are and your neighborhood. The EX has (in addition to LX features) a factory alarm, painted side moldings and windshield washers, alloys, CD player, moonroof, and a driver's seat with a power height adjustment. If it's going to cost you more to get an EX, I'd say skip it. Leather was optional on the EX also, mine is cloth. Leather comes with wood trim and a full power driver's seat.

-As for the alarm, like I said that depends a bit on your neighborhood, I think I like that feature in mine but I could have gotten a much better aftermarket one with remote start and code protection, etc.

-The painted side moldings, not that big a deal, especially on darker cars. The moldings on mine have saved me from a good amount of dents, and it shows. If it was black it might not be so obvious.

-The alloys IMO look ugly anyway, especially with the new hubcaps they have that emulate the EX wheels PERFECTLY. Also they seem to be adversely affected by salt, which you might have a lot of in NJ. They're also prone to scratching because we have bad drivers but more because the spoke stick out. When I park, I always lower my side mirror to make sure I'm not scratching anything, because it looks real ugly.

-The CD player I've already replaced it. It's also a double DIN unit so you have no storage pocket, kind of a pain. The sound quality is also not the greatest, but the buttons are very big, easy to use even with gloves.

-I like the moonroof but it's noisy just like you described with the '97. Also it's starting to whistle at freeway speeds and creak going up driveways. No big deal. The cover for it also rattles when it's open, unless the sunroof is also open.

-Power adjustable height only on the driver's seat is actually kind of a pain. The motor is underpowered for my 280lb frame, I would have preferred a manual adjustment in all honesty.

Couple of things to note: V6 maintenance will probably be harder because it's bigger and crammed into a small engine bay. Also the V6 and I4 are actually reversed in configuration. The I4 has the tranny on the passenger side, V6 is on the drivers side. The EX V6 had auto climate control, only one that has it. Also, the V6 has FIVE lugs on the wheels, the I4 has FOUR lugs, just something to keep your eye on if you have an extra set of wheels laying around the house. If you buy a V6, the wheels will be interchangeable with your '04, where the I4's will not.

[i]and windshield washers,

[/B]

Please explain. I don't think you mean what I think you mean.

Also, the transmission warranty extension was only for 00-01.

Originally posted by benjamming
Please explain. I don't think you mean what I think you mean.

The windshield washer jets on the top of the hood are painted on the EX, they're black on the LX.

Wow - sounds like an advanced course in Accord differentiation.

So to boil it down...Benji would recommend a '99 EX V6, without leather?

But it sounds like I may need the '00 to get the trans warranty? Or is the '99 trans not one of the troubled versions?

my '99 with 108K for $7200 may seem a bit expensive, but it was actually 1K under KBB

under KBB - wholesale? trade? retail? which # do you use as a guide?

And 1 more question re: valuation: what do you guys trust to be the most accurate? KBB, Edmunds, Carsdirect...other?

Thanks again...:cool:

Originally posted by Pairallel
Wow - sounds like an advanced course in Accord differentiation.

So to boil it down...Benji would recommend a '99 EX V6, without leather?

But it sounds like I may need the '00 to get the trans warranty? Or is the '99 trans not one of the troubled versions?



under KBB - wholesale? trade? retail? which # do you use as a guide?

And 1 more question re: valuation: what do you guys trust to be the most accurate? KBB, Edmunds, Carsdirect...other?

Thanks again...:cool:

EX V6's don't come without leather, but the LX V6 does. (I see where you're getting confused - sorry about that. The feature differentiations were specifically for I4's, cloth was optional on the EX I4, standard on the EX V6.) Then again The LX V6 also does without alloys, CD, alarm, moonroof, power seats, but it does have 5 lugs :) I could recommend either the LX or the EX but would say it has to have a V6. Don't forget if you buy from a dealer you can get the 7/100 warranty for the entire car through Honda, so even a '99 is okay.

I use KBB Private Party, rate the car accordingly. In general I pay what I think the car is worth. The Blue Book gets fuzzy and Edmunds isn't even close to my benchmark. For instance, under the "Rate it" feature, if you put in that it has a salvage title, it can still be rated as Good condition. Highly doubt it when the insurance companies are only going to pay 1/2 of blue book for a salvage title that gets totalled again. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the value of the car is in the eye of the beholder. I was willing to pay tons more for a manual Accord even though the auto is actually an $800 option. Then there's this other example of where I was looking at Avalon's for my uncle. Some of the '95's went as low at $7000 and I saw a '99 (same body style but slightly updated) for nearly $15k, even though both had the same mileage. To me, if it's the same mileage then they're equally old, regardless of age. That's how I value cars anyway, but the market is different of course, paying more for newer cars even with tons of miles on them.

Good luck with your search! I'm trying to help by pointing out some of the different things about the Accord and my experience, but the end decision will depend on your taste. Hope I provided enough info for you to make a good solid decision. Can't go wrong with Honda :) May I recommend a used Camry though? They go for significantly cheaper than the Accord, and they were updated in '97. My dad owns a '97 LE I4 and it's solid as a rock at 143K, feels like it could go a lot farther. It's also much much quieter and smoother, the steering is much lighter, and in general the I4 has had no problems and is adequately powered. The V6's had sludging though.

Thanks for the clarifications. I have had a '95 Camry V6, a '98 Avalon and an '01 Camry V6. All good, solid cars but very boring rides. I haven't driven the 4 cylinder '97 - '01 Camry, so I'm not sure about performance there.

I have been very impressed with my first Accord, and have read a lot about happy 5th and 6th gen owners. Also, the fact that the comparable Camrys (which were about the same original sticker) have lower used prices now should tell me something, I guess.

I am keeping an eye out for Camrys, but I will be targeting that creampuff '99 Accord LX or EX V6.

:confused:

Anyone have the definitive answer on that auto trans question: which years got the extended warranties?

:confused:

Found this:

American Honda Extends Warranties on Select Automatic Transmissions

TORRANCE, Calif., Sept. 20, 2002 - American Honda Motor Co., Inc. announced today it will provide extended warranties on approximately 1.2 million Honda and Acura models equipped with automatic transmissions due to problems that may result in premature wear or failure. The extended warranty will cover affected transmissions for seven years or 100,000 miles.

The standard bumper-to-bumper warranty for Honda vehicles is three years or 36,000 miles, while Acura vehicles are covered for four years or 50,000 miles.

Vehicles covered by the extended warranty include:
2000 - 2001 Honda Accord, Odyssey and Prelude
2000 - 2002 and some 2003 Acura 3.2 TL
2001 - 2002 and some 2003 Acura 3.2 CL

While only two percent of these vehicles have experienced these transmission problems, American Honda will provide extended transmission warranties on all potentially affected vehicles. "Our priorities are making sure our customers are taken care of and reassured they can continue to depend on their Honda or Acura automobile for a long time to come," said Tom Elliott, executive vice president for American Honda.

There is usually plenty of warning to the driver that the transmission is not operating properly, such as slow or erratic shifting, giving them ample time to take the vehicle in for service.

American Honda will notify all owners of eligible vehicles via mail in the coming weeks.

Associates receiving media calls on this issue should direct the calls to the Public Relations Department at (310) 783-3170.

http://hondanews.com/CatID0000?mid=2002092028798&mime=asc

Perfect! Thanks, Benji...!:D