Oxygen Sensor or Something Else? [Archive]

Mark_48

03-01-2007, 03:41 PM

Hello,
This is my first post and this board seems like a good place to get help with problems which I do have. My name is Mark (you probably figured that out from my forum name) and I've got a 1999 Honda Accord LX with appproximately 106,000 miles on it.
About a month ago the CEL came on and I reset it by pulling the fuse. Had hopes this was the end of it, but that would be too easy and it came back. As it was nothing apparently obvious, such as cracked hoses or the like, I purchased an OBDII reader from Amazon.com (it's an Equus 3100c about $100. Seems to work OK.). The reader pulled out the code P1167 which is for the front oxygen sensor. It also gave some other data as well with a computer printout.
My dilemma is that even though the reader points at the oxygen sensor, I want to be pretty sure replacing it fixes the issue and that code isn't the result of another problem which causes the oxygen sensor to flake out. I'll throw out what I know and maybe the knowledge here can lead me in the right direction.

1999 Honda Accord LX AT 106,000 miles
Engine: F23A1

CEL - resets, OK on 1st trip, comes on during 2nd trip in about a mile or so.

OBDII Code - P1167

Oxygen sensor heater resistance about 2.4 ohms with hot manifold. Chilton's book states this should be 10-40 ohms. Less or more is bad heater. This probably nails it, but I have found some other errors in book, so I'm not sure if this figure is reliable.

Oxygen sensor has a trickle of several millivolts (high impedance DMM) with a hot manifold. Haven't tried this with engine running. I assume the sensor will have a slight output when hot.

About a month before all this occurred I had a sticking throttle plate. Cleaned out with a rag just dampened with carb cleaner. Could stuck TP cause over richness resulting in sensor failure ?

The car still runs well with only a slightly lower idle. Gas milage does not seem affected, although hard to tell as it usually isn't as good in cold weather anyhow(New England).

Equus 3100c Freeze Frame Data:
Stored:
P1167 Primary HO2S (No. 1) Heater System

MIL ON
MisFire Monitor Complete
Fuel System Monitor Complete
Comprehensive Component Monitor Complete
Catalyst Monitor Complete
Heated Catalyst Monitor Not Supported
Evaporative System Monitor Complete
Secondary Air System Monitor Not Supported
A/C System Refrigerant Monitor Not Supported
Oxygen Sensor Monitor Complete
Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor Complete
EGR System Monitor Complete

DTC For Which Freeze Frame Was Stored P1167
Fuel System 1 Status Open Loop
Fuel System 2 Status Not Supported
Calculated LOAD Value 73.73 %
Engine Coolant Temperature 98.6 °F
Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 0.00 %
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 -1.56 %
Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure 22.2 inHg
Engine RPM 2156.75 rpm
Vehicle Speed Sensor 37.5 mph
Intake Air Temperature 48.2 °F
Absolute Throttle Position 25.10 %

I'm about 90% sure about the need replacement, just need some reassurance from some experts.
I'm inclined to replace it with an OEM Honda part (about $155). Anyone have any comments about the Bosch 13075 replacement (about $100) which is supposedly specific to this engine (not a universal type).

Thanks.............

Mark


Drive Accord Honda Forums > The Honda Accord Lab > Problems & Solutions > Oxygen Sensor or Something Else? PDA Oxygen Sensor or Something Else? Mark_48 03-01-2007, 03:41 PM Hello, This is my first post and this board seems like a good place to get help with problems which I do have. My name is Mark (you probably figured that out from my forum name) and I've got a 1999 Honda Accord LX with appproximately 106,000 miles on it. About a month ago the CEL came on and I reset it by pulling the fuse. Had hopes this was the end of it, but that would be too easy and it came back. As it was nothing apparently obvious, such as cracked hoses or the like, I purchased an OBDII reader from Amazon.com (it's an Equus 3100c about $100. Seems to work OK.). The reader pulled out the code P1167 which is for the front oxygen sensor. It also gave some other data as well with a computer printout. My dilemma is that even though the reader points at the oxygen sensor, I want to be pretty sure replacing it fixes the issue and that code isn't the result of another problem which causes the oxygen sensor to flake out. I'll throw out what I know and maybe the knowledge here can lead me in the right direction. 1999 Honda Accord LX AT 106,000 miles Engine: F23A1 CEL - resets, OK on 1st trip, comes on during 2nd trip in about a mile or so. OBDII Code - P1167 Oxygen sensor heater resistance about 2.4 ohms with hot manifold. Chilton's book states this should be 10-40 ohms. Less or more is bad heater. This probably nails it, but I have found some other errors in book, so I'm not sure if this figure is reliable. Oxygen sensor has a trickle of several millivolts (high impedance DMM) with a hot manifold. Haven't tried this with engine running. I assume the sensor will have a slight output when hot. About a month before all this occurred I had a sticking throttle plate. Cleaned out with a rag just dampened with carb cleaner. Could stuck TP cause over richness resulting in sensor failure ? The car still runs well with only a slightly lower idle. Gas milage does not seem affected, although hard to tell as it usually isn't as good in cold weather anyhow(New England). Equus 3100c Freeze Frame Data: Stored: P1167 Primary HO2S (No. 1) Heater System MIL ON MisFire Monitor Complete Fuel System Monitor Complete Comprehensive Component Monitor Complete Catalyst Monitor Complete Heated Catalyst Monitor Not Supported Evaporative System Monitor Complete Secondary Air System Monitor Not Supported A/C System Refrigerant Monitor Not Supported Oxygen Sensor Monitor Complete Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor Complete EGR System Monitor Complete DTC For Which Freeze Frame Was Stored P1167 Fuel System 1 Status Open Loop Fuel System 2 Status Not Supported Calculated LOAD Value 73.73 % Engine Coolant Temperature 98.6 °F Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 0.00 % Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 -1.56 % Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure 22.2 inHg Engine RPM 2156.75 rpm Vehicle Speed Sensor 37.5 mph Intake Air Temperature 48.2 °F Absolute Throttle Position 25.10 % I'm about 90% sure about the need replacement, just need some reassurance from some experts. I'm inclined to replace it with an OEM Honda part (about $155). Anyone have any comments about the Bosch 13075 replacement (about $100) which is supposedly specific to this engine (not a universal type). Thanks............. Mark princess 03-01-2007, 03:51 PM Here's what I found so far.... I'll ask my prince to look over the info you reported & see if he has any other ideas for you. Mark_48 03-03-2007, 06:24 AM Thanks, I'll look that info over. Mark.... princess 03-03-2007, 08:29 AM He glanced over the info & says it looks like what it says.... the heated O2 sensor or a connection to it. It's not working. Mark_48 03-03-2007, 09:34 AM Have the Bosch replacements done OK? The one I'm looking at is supposedly the direct replacement for this engine (not a universal fit style). I did check one further thing. I do have voltage to the pins that supply the heater voltage. Thanks for the response and help. Mark..... Mark_48 03-08-2007, 04:27 PM Finally did the replacement with the Honda brand part ($151 + tax) and so far all looks OK. The CEL went out, I cleared the codes and they haven't returned. The only thing I think I have to do now is reset the idle up a bit. Thanks for all the help and suggestions :) Mark.........