Honda Vehicle Fires Linked to Oil Changes

[benjamming]

I'm not a big CNN fan, but the link had the info.

So much for the dealerships "expertise" & "need" for them to change my oil (not that they ever have).

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/09/news/international/honda_fires.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - At least 27 Honda CR-V sport/utility vehicles from the 2003 and 2004 model years burst into flames shortly after getting their first oil changes, according to newspaper reports Friday.

No injuries were reported, but many of the vehicles were destroyed, usually with 10,000 miles or fewer on their odometers, the Washington Post said, citing records provided to the U.S. government by Honda. (HMC: Research, Estimates)

The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration investigated the situation and concluded on July 1 that the cases were the fault of dealerships or others who improperly installed oil filters, the newspaper said.

According to the report, NHTSA and American Honda Motor Co. agreed that oil from the filters most likely leaked onto the vehicles' hot exhaust systems, quickly igniting.

"We consulted with Honda. Honda concluded it was a technician's error, and they have taken steps to make sure service technicians who work on this vehicle understand that they need to be particularly diligent when they replace the oil filter," NHTSA spokesman Rae Tyson was quoted as saying.

Honda doesn't know why the fires are happening in only the two most recent CR-V model years and not earlier ones, spokesman Andy Boyd told the newspaper "That's the part we're still investigating," he said.

There were about 140,000 CR-Vs sold in the United States in 2003 and Honda said 22 of them caught fire from the apparent oil filter problem, the Post reported. So far this year, five owners of 2004 CR-Vs have reported such fires to NHTSA, the newspaper said.

[princess]

Generally the "lube-tech's" are high school kids or someone just there for a job, not always even concidering a job in the field. So possibly this could be showing the importance of doing it right! Interesting though..... I wonder why the owners didn't complain about an oil leak? That's the typical clue that something was done wrong....:confused:

It did say "dealerships & other" ....I wonder if they know how many were from each....

[according2me]

The Edmunds CRV forum has been talking about this for over a year. Several folks on that forum had there CRV's flame on the way home from the dealer, after having gotten their first oil change there.

This is the same drivetrain used in the 4cyl Accords, but it doesn't appear to be a problem in those vehicles. It's still speculation, but it seems most everyone is pointing the finger at double gaskets, as in, the lube tech is not making sure the old gasket comes off with the old filter, and then putting the new filter/gasket over the old one.

Maybe it's more awkward to replace this filter on the CRV than the Accord and the lube guys are not being vigilant. It's always been a practice of mine to wipe the mounting surface with a rag after filter removal to remove any grit from this area before spinning on the new filter/gasket. This makes for a better seal and less chance of leaks. Also, don't forget to wet the new gasket with an oily finger. This has been standard practice in the service industry since spin-on filters came into existance. It may be time for dealers to start drug/alcohol testing their employees.:(

[princess]

Although my prince isn't one of the ones to do the oil changes, he did comment to me that the exhaust/oil fliter on the CRV's are awkward. A puddle will form on the exhaust if you don't get the filter on just right. He's been aware of the problem for a while too.

[Inspector1]

Just laziness on the tech's part.... Like according2me said clean mounting surface plus check old filter, its not that difficult!!

Princess, I am quit sure Prince has worked in more awkward situations before and the difficulty level was more intense and still performed his task properly...

That still makes no excuse for the problem..
When I ran the shop...Every vehicle was test driven and reinspected by the Shop foreman or Shop Manager and they were also instructed to notify Myself or the General Mgr if for some reason they could not check a vehicle... I have personally checked many vehicles myself and 1 instance of a double gasket, which was repaired by the tech at no labor time... In a flat rate shop it doesn't take to many freebies before the techs figure it out.

I1:)

[princess]

Yeah, removing the trannies is a bunch more challenging than changing an oil filter....

As far as I know there's not been any fires from ones done where he's at....but he's always griping about the quality of people they hire! Not long ago a guy pulled out the tranny on the wrong car. Different color, different year! Ones that have spent all day doing a 4 hour job, there's always something!

I agree, if the person doing the job actually did it, they'd also be checking for leaks! Nothing would leave the shop leaky after coming in for a mere oil change!!

Kinda like "the job ain't done until the paperwork is done".....well, a job ain't done if it hasn't been checked for leaks too. If the person is doing their job corectly then they shouldn't need to be babysat & have managers check it out! There SHOULD be enough pride in their work to not allow things to go out flawed!

He works flat-rate now & nothing seems to help undo the ignorance of some of the people hired. Before this they had an incentive program. It didn't help. Both seem to just make the lazy take more short cuts. We've been trying to come up with a plan for years to help management find the right blend to make people do their job right the first time.

There's such a shortage in qualified techs that shops hire anyone! It's like this in many job feilds now. Then you add to that the fact that people seem to no longer take pride in their work.... it's setting up a nightmare!

Sorry for rambling.....this has been a complaint around here for a long time! Nearly daily he's fighting with his boss about it!:blush:

In the shop he works in to make the customer that had to bring in a "comeback" happier the tech that messed it up isn't the one to fix it. So they never learn! If there could be a blend of requiring a bit of patience on the customer's part & insistance for quality work on the management's part to keep doing it until it's done right, less mistakes would happen. Unfortunately, in trying to keep customer "A" happy, the rest will suffer too!

OK, enough.....off my soapbox.....:rolleyes:

[Inspector1]

Totally agree!!! The mentality that anyone can go to school and become a mechanic/Tech is absurd...
You will find the best tech's have an aptitude to be just that , its like an artist.... you cannot be great by going to school ..you are born with that talent!!!!!
It's a shame that Honda has to take the brunt of abuse for individuals that work for a dealer! The media makes it sound like a Honda problem.. which in to some degree it is.. possible bad batch of oil filters that the crimp on the filter lip is not holding the gasket tight on the filter.. or possible burr on the filter mounting boss from machining?? could also be a issue of cleaning cosmolene off of surface before assembly.. who knows it could be several factors along with the lube techs mistake...

I1:)

[snakehair]

I have had the pleasure of having a dedicated intelligent tech that worked hard to understand the problem (not just assume the service writer put it down right if he couldn't duplicate it), and also have had complete boobs that hurried a job, had to do it over and still didn't get it right (probably because they weren't getting paid for the rework and management didn't didn't provide extra training or screening for competence in the first place).
I have learned the best thing an owner can do is make sure the service writer accurately describes the problem, try to talk directly to the tech if there is a misunderstanding and return immediately if a problem with the repair is detected. Although the techs see many cars a day, I know mine best and what is changing on it. So far the Honda techs are above the average around here (the Express Line manager is a jewel), but the service writers are below par and the turnover is amazing. New face every visit.

[princess]

I sure hope Honda figures out why & how to prevent these fires....

There IS an aptitude & desire. His desire is fading....last year they took away the retirement plan & we're still struggling with that fact.

snakehair, you're so right! My prince used love it when I dealt with people during his sidework years. I always asked about any running conditions when they were in just for a service. If there was a repair from a symptom going on, I'd ask detail questions....does it do it hot, cold, at idle, etc. Sometimes at the first call, I'd ask them to try & duplcate it before their appt. You know, 9 times out of 10 we'd know which part had gone out before we saw the car. That was helpful since we didn't stock a bunch at home. He could bring home the right part for the repair. Every once in a whike he'd bring home 2 parts & return one. We charged our cost on parts & about 50% the going rate for labor. The number was what he'd make working overtime @ time & a half. We hadn't PLANNED on sidework.....it just happened & grew. It started with the kids teachers asking for help with their Hondas & word of mouth it just went on & on. We had about 250 regulars. I kept careful records & got to know their driving patterns, I coud call & remind them when they were due for a service within about 100 miles! I had fun with it.

He did all sidework on week nights after work. He has a 10 hour day already & he'd put in another 3 or 4 four nights per week. But that way we still had our weekends!:D

We made a bunch of unhappy people when we stopped! We still get calls for advise. A few call & beg.... but he's only helping out family & a few neighbors now.

[snakehair]

It is difficult to find a good, concerned tech these days. The cars are too complicated for most "shadetree" mechanics and the dealers push so hard that at times even if a tech finds something that isn't written up by the service writer, they won't take the time to try and contact you. You might get told at the time you pick the car up so you can book another appointment with time off from work, etc. I have never minded paying a fair priice for a fair job, but the quality of the work is most important. I live in a condominium and can't work on the cars (even for simple things) in the parking lot. We are moving out to W. Va. from the D.C. area (the other side of the Beltway from where you are visiting) into a single family with a garage. Can't wait to have room to play with the cars, but dread having to "break-in" a new auto tech that listens, knows my car and takes pride in his work. I guess it is understandable you had so many disappointed clients when your side business shut down. Enjoy your visit East. It has been hot and hunmid, but you have missed some great thunderstorms.

[princess]

Yeah, it seems easier to find a doctor than a technician!! AND I don't trust doctors!!!:D

Hopefully they'll be more storms next week!! Or maybe later in FL. They'd actually be more fun in FL anyway since I'd probably prefer not looking like a drowned rat when seeing the museums & stuff! Plus there's going to be a lot of outside pictures at the monuments & memorials...

[snakehair]

You don't want to get me started on Doctors. Actually it is the Staff in the DR.'s office that can drive you crazy. DC area has some good medical treatment available. I'll miss that in W. Va. They are calling for some heavy storms and we are under a flood watch all day today. Looks like afternoon storms all week, but temperatures only in the 80's (if you can believe the weather watchers). I agree rain is more pleasant and better tolerated in FL. It is a shame security concerns have made visiting much of the DC area more difficult as well as flying such a hassle. I don't go downtown unless we have visitors from out of town and then we do the usual tour of the monuments, museums and sights. this is a great area. We can be at the beach in a few hours and in the mountains in less. Evetthing in between is green rolling hills (where it isn't pavement). Our traffic ranks up in the top 5 for gridlock and traffic jams and our air quality ain't what it was. I am way off subject and rambling. Have a good trip.