I am using 6cyl Accord 2004 with automatic transmission. Dealer told me that i must change automatic transmission oil after 80,000KM.
People says that usually changing the automatic transmission oil destroys the gearbox etc and ends up in lots of problems. Friends says better dont touch it unless its dirty.
Please help me on that.

With all the problems that the auto's have (had) in the past, I would change it every 15 to 20 thousand miles. People have talked that the ATF gets dirty pretty quick in them.

thanks a lot for your answer i will get it changed soon.
Really appreciated

Usually, the school of thought is that you can change your auto-transmission oil early with no problems...
However, if you decide to change it on a car that has a over a 100,000 miles on it, you can almost guarantee that your transmission will fail. The problem is that the new transmission fluid has detergent properties that would clean out all the gunk on an old transmission. All of this gunk would then get clogged up inside the various lines inside the transmission, which in turn would cause the transmission to fail.
Also, a lot of the old gunk has kept the transmission sealed by acting as a cauterizer... Once you clean all that out, the transmission will leak all over the place.

Usually, the school of thought is that you can change your auto-transmission oil early with no problems...
However, if you decide to change it on a car that has a over a 100,000 miles on it, you can almost guarantee that your transmission will fail. The problem is that the new transmission fluid has detergent properties that would clean out all the gunk on an old transmission. All of this gunk would then get clogged up inside the various lines inside the transmission, which in turn would cause the transmission to fail.
Also, a lot of the old gunk has kept the transmission sealed by acting as a cauterizer... Once you clean all that out, the transmission will leak all over the place.


So are you inferring that with engines over 100k not to change the ATF fluid???:dunno:

So are you inferring that with engines over 100k not to change the ATF fluid???:dunno:

If they've never been changed, it's probably not a good idea...

Although, I base my suggestions on traditional slush-box automatics.... I'm not sure how this would apply to Honda automatics that are based on their manual transmissions... I would think that in the Honda's automatic, the only part getting transmission fluid would be the torque-converter?? Can anyone elaborate on how fluid is transfered through the transmission??

If so, then I would think you would be fine to change it at any time...

If they've never been changed, it's probably not a good idea...

Although, I base my suggestions on traditional slush-box automatics.... I'm not sure how this would apply to Honda automatics that are based on their manual transmissions... I would think that in the Honda's automatic, the only part getting transmission fluid would be the torque-converter?? Can anyone elaborate on how fluid is transfered through the transmission??

If so, then I would think you would be fine to change it at any time...

Honda themselves says to change it at 120k miles. :nuts: Under the 'servere' schedule, it's 90k.

Would I follow that. Heck no.

Honda themselves says to change it at 120k miles. :nuts: Under the 'servere' schedule, it's 90k.

Would I follow that. Heck no.

That's good to know. :thmsup: I learn something new everyday. :D

That's good to know. :thmsup: I learn something new everyday. :D


Changing trans fluid is a very easy thing to do...Easier than changing oil in fact!

On our Accords only about 40% of the fluid is actually changed. At your mileage 80000km (48K miles)it should handle a simple drain and fill just fine.
If it was mine I would not do a total flush (3 D&F's). Do a 3 qt D&F now and one every 20000km..

I just did my second D&F at 35K miles. The first was done at 20K miles. The fluid that came out at 35K miles was somewhat dark, but the magnetic drain plug had hardly any sludge on it. The first time the sludge was quite pronounced due most likely to break in wear. Also did a blotter test and there was NO dark center. Very happy with the lack of sludge on the drain plug and the overall condition of the fluid. It still felt slick and no gritty feel at all. The bottom of my drain pan was remarkably free of debris. Confidence is high!:yes:

Happy motoring to all

hermann,
You really can't tell the condition by the feel of the oil or maybe not even the condition of the drain plug. My situation shows this in that the drain plug has a relatively low amount of ferrous material but my UOA showed elevated amounts of iron & aluminum (which al is non-ferrous so it would not show up on the plug).

voltron1011,
Then the usual school of thought is wrong. Many people start having transmission problems, change the fluid, then the transmission fails. They blame the fluid change when the transmission had simply been abused (this includes appropriate fluid changes) and was about to fail. Another thing that happens is they don't change the filter when they change the fluid at xxx,xxx miles for the 1st time. It's not that ATF is that detergent (it's not), it is that the filter was full already. Of course, ATF filter is not a subject that relates to Honda unless you have a 7th gen (or later? Does the 8th gen have a AT filter?).

I changed mine w/4k miles on it for some AMSoil. There is a drain plug for a reason. The Accord owners manuals don't have the info in it, but it is detailed in my old CRV manual. The drain bolt is HARD to get loose the 1st time. After that it's a breeze. fwiw, the newer Castrol Import ATF claims Z-1spec. MaxLife ATF does too.

WHICH newer Castrol? That's news to me. Honda has an exclusive on their ATF and I'd be surprised that Castrol would even quote that. I think it's also copyrighted. I'd like to see that.
Check for sludge via the blotter test? Wow, that's old school. Surprised to read that someone other than myself still uses this method. It's worked well for me in the past. When doing the "feel" test, the most import thing to feel for is stickiness. You want the oil to have a tenacity, meaning that it can still cling to metal parts.

Here ya go:

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8.RDQNHvlAB.xtXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTExbTV0dDR 1BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkAwRsA1dTMQ--/SIG=1490qlre3/EXP=1191468817/**http%3a//www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_ImportMV.pdf

Might be my next purchase if its cheaper than what I use now.

Ive owned honda accords for many many years through diferant generation models, if you want it to always run great you should as a rule of thumb just at your next engine oil change (should be at 3-4k miles or every 3 months)drain the 2.5 quarts of trany fluid and refill with a quality fluid like hondas ATF if you cant get hondas ATF lubriguard has a couple of products you just simply add to get the proper friction modifiers back into the fluid for the trans, remember you get out of a car what you put into it, fluids are like the blood that flows through your body, take care of it and it will take care of you, if you didnt take care of it dont complain about it later! My last accord i sold off was a 1990 with over 244589 miles on it always had its fluid changed, still has its orriginal trany from day one, driven hard to redline and still runs like a kitten...enough said.

If they've never been changed, it's probably not a good idea...

Although, I base my suggestions on traditional slush-box automatics.... I'm not sure how this would apply to Honda automatics that are based on their manual transmissions... I would think that in the Honda's automatic, the only part getting transmission fluid would be the torque-converter?? Can anyone elaborate on how fluid is transfered through the transmission??

If so, then I would think you would be fine to change it at any time...

bad experience. when my sis gave me her old 97. no tranny fluid change for 120k-130k miles. only knew she didnt change it when the check engine light went on for something about the torque converter. changed oil, brown black gunk. black gunk on the bolt. nasty stuff, after that it was ok but momma was paranoid and got a 05. change it earlier than suggested!!

I think maybe the "school of thought" isn't talkin' about Hondas! They like their fluid changed. Whether it's at 10K or 100K, they want new stuff in there!

I've yet to see a Honda quit from changing fluid. I agree with benjamming that the ATF was probably changed DUE to a problem & so it exsisted prior.

I've seen failures from neglect, but not from ovely zealous maint.
I've seen the wrong fluid causing failure in both ATs & MTs. More in the MTs. People at Jiffylubes & the type often put in gear oil, not MTF!!

Better to change too often than not enough. So pick a number.....15K, 20K, 30K, whatever & change it.

Mine is still under 30K & has had several changes. The first one was at 5K with the engine oil. But I have the questionable year & model. So we were over cautious. It will have the next one at 30K, with the other fluids. The car is now over 4 years old & even with the low mileage, time puts a strain on the quality of the fluids too. So it will get new brake fluid, coolant & possibly PS fluid too.

I am about to get my transmission fluid changed at Honda. They told me about two services they offer. One is just a drain and fill service which they will only replace about 4 quarts of fluid and keep in mind that 2005 accord 2.4L has a 12 quart capacity. The second service they offered was for a complete draining of the fluid. They will hook the transmission to a machine which will flush out the transmission suppsoedly three times and then they will replace all the fluid, 12 quarts. Sounds good to me. I just realized I need to get this service done asap. My local Honda dealer offered me a price of 149 for the complete drain, fill and cleaning. :dude:

bad experience. when my sis gave me her old 97. no tranny fluid change for 120k-130k miles. only knew she didnt change it when the check engine light went on for something about the torque converter.

Didn't Honda have an extended transmission warranty on those Accords? If the check-engine (transmission) light went off, they'd cover the transmission?

I changed mine w/4k miles on it for some AMSoil. There is a drain plug for a reason. The Accord owners manuals don't have the info in it, but it is detailed in my old CRV manual. The drain bolt is HARD to get loose the 1st time. After that it's a breeze. fwiw, the newer Castrol Import ATF claims Z-1spec. MaxLife ATF does too.

The 05 Accord requires you to use Honda ATF. Why would you put something other than the REQUIRED fluid in the tranny?

I use to use AMSOIL too but after buying our 05 Pilot and 05 Accord, I switched to Mobil 1 and Honda ATF.

Armystrong,

This is a debate that runs forever. They require you to run the Honda Z1 fluid b/c they make a lot of money from it. It really isn't all that great of a fluid. There are other options that are better.

Armystrong,

This is a debate that runs forever. They require you to run the Honda Z1 fluid b/c they make a lot of money from it. It really isn't all that great of a fluid. There are other options that are better.

Please enlighten me on these other options because if something were to happen to your transmission and you are running Mobil 1 ATF, will it be covered if something goes wrong? I would love to use Mobil 1 since I use it for the Engine oil, but when the manual strictly calls for Z1 why use something else if it could create problems down the road?

Trust me I used Mobil 1 in my 03 Maxima and 03 Yukon ( engine, transmission, and differential). I guess if someone were to give me some viable proof that these OTHER so called brands work with no effects, I would consider not using Z1. Is there another thread that has proof or an oil analysis done?

Didn't Honda have an extended transmission warranty on those Accords? If the check-engine (transmission) light went off, they'd cover the transmission?

i do not remember, but too late. + if they looked at the fluid, theyd blame us haha

Castrol Import ATF has Z1 approval.

Castrol Import ATF has Z1 approval.

It's recommended for Z1 by Castrol, but does not have Honda approval. Honda ATF-Z1 from the dealer is the only approved service fill for conventional Honda automatics.

Please enlighten me on these other options because if something were to happen to your transmission and you are running Mobil 1 ATF, will it be covered if something goes wrong? I would love to use Mobil 1 since I use it for the Engine oil, but when the manual strictly calls for Z1 why use something else if it could create problems down the road?

Trust me I used Mobil 1 in my 03 Maxima and 03 Yukon ( engine, transmission, and differential). I guess if someone were to give me some viable proof that these OTHER so called brands work with no effects, I would consider not using Z1. Is there another thread that has proof or an oil analysis done?

The problem is that no one can give you a true answer. None of us understand why Z1 behaves the way it does. Not even an additive company could tell you. Honda does not release any info regarding Z1's composition or behavior. Any fluid other than the approved service fill is a crapshoot.

The problem is that no one can give you a true answer. None of us understand why Z1 behaves the way it does. Not even an additive company could tell you. Honda does not release any info regarding Z1's composition or behavior. Any fluid other than the approved service fill is a crapshoot.

Thanks, Look like I wil keep changing 3 quarts of Z1 everytime I do an oil change. I was honestly hoping someone would show me something that would make up my mind in using a better ATF. I better stick with whats been working and what is recommended/required by Honda.

Thanks for the reply.
Happy Holidays

Hondas fluid is a good quality fluid, what sets it apart from regular ATF is it has additional friction modifiers that allow the transmission to operate the way it was built with the types of friction material used within the tranny itself, and to stay in harmony with its internal electronic solenoids.

Some people think all fluids are similar, this is far from the truth, a perfect example of this would be Chrysler vehicles...They have ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4, and now an ATF+5, if you use anything other than what’s designated for a Chrysler it will DIE, ive seen so many tranys on these crap out cause its owner thought he could use just off the shelf regular ATF WRONG!!!!!!

Honda however is not that temperamental, on a early to mid 90s a good quality ATF will do just fine Pennzoil makes a really good ATF and its price is acceptable for what your gona use it for, Royal Purple ATF is excellent but pricier.

Some Hondas from 98 through 03 have had some problems, personally what ive found other than Hondas known issue have been people not understanding that they need to use the correct fluid and sadly to say many lube places didn’t understand either till recent, lets face it practically ALL lube places use the cheapest fluid they can purchase, along with the cheapest filters they can find, really how else can they do a $19.99, or $29.99 fluid change seriously, i know i sell the shit to them and can tell you i would not use this stuff in any one of my own vehicles or any of my friends for that matter!! don’t get me wrong it does meet the government minimum requirement, yea right!! In design anyways not always in quality control.

You Can use a High quality ATF and use a product that’s made by Lubriguards which when used as directed on the bottle will add the necessary friction modifiers into the fluid which will allow it to function similarly to Hondas fluid, this will save you a few dollars but why not use Hondas fluid its still better ultimately from a quality standpoint, like anything else you get out of it what you put into it, and if you seriously care enough blow the dust off your wallet and take responsibility for what you own. Or just don’t worry about it, drive till it dies and move on. But don’t blame the vehicle for your own inability to take care of it reguardles of the make of vehicle.

and now an ATF+5
No ATF+5 exists. DC uses ATF+4 as factory fill in many DC automatics, but they also have an Aisin Warner fluid for certain applications in the RAM transmissions and a CVT-specific fluid for the Jatco JF011E.

don’t get me wrong it does meet the government minimum requirement, yea right!! In design anyways not always in quality control.
Which is why OEs continually audit/monitor their licensed products to verify the formulation.

There are many products on the market that are recommended by their respective manufacturers for a specific application, but were never OE approved/tested.

Honda however is not that temperamental, on a early to mid 90s a good quality ATF will do just fine Pennzoil makes a really good ATF and its price is acceptable for what your gona use it for, Royal Purple ATF is excellent but pricier.
Be careful here, as the only GM approved service fill for Dexron applications now is Dexron-VI. As you said earlier with regards to quality control, prior Dexron specs such as Dexron-III(H) are no longer licensed and the quality and formulation of those fluids are no longer monitored. Who knows what is being produced. If you need a fluid that works in Dexron II, III(G) or III(H) applications, Dexron-VI is the only safe choice.

You Can use a High quality ATF and use a product that’s made by Lubriguards which when used as directed on the bottle will add the necessary friction modifiers into the fluid which will allow it to function similarly to Hondas fluid, this will save you a few dollars but why not use Hondas fluid its still better ultimately from a quality standpoint, like anything else you get out of it what you put into it, and if you seriously care enough blow the dust off your wallet and take responsibility for what you own. Or just don’t worry about it, drive till it dies and move on. But don’t blame the vehicle for your own inability to take care of it reguardles of the make of vehicle.

Lubegard may allow the fluid to shift smoothly in Honda automatics, but it's unknown whether the frictional properties will last the full duration of the specified drain interval.

James, no offense, but the Honda ATF hasn't had the best reviews over on BITOG.

HAHAHA im laughing if you call a Chrysler dealers parts department you will quickly learn that there is an ATF+5, it is not out in any other form in the after market yet at the moment other than OEM, and it is used in many of the newer Chrysler, Dodge vehicles (yup those mini van trannys just love to crap out) its so new that many dealerships have not begun to change the fluids yet in those applications for the better part. In fact if you step into a showroom and drop a seat into a vehicle and ask the salesperson for the manual go to the recommended fluid section guess what you will find, enough said.

As far as the Honda fluid reviews I think it more an issue with the cost of the product that has driven people to dislike it. Personally I use Royal Purple in mine with no issues and I use the Lubriguard product properly calculating the correct amount to add, and just to note there are a few different lubriguard tranny products for trannys the trick is to read and purchase the correct one for the application to be used in. Honda as virtually all manufactures out source their fluids along with much other things that go into a vehicle not just Honda. Although the Jap and Euro manufactures have a better track record for using a consistent manufacturer as a source for certain products to be sold under the OEM label.

Ashland oil makes a better half of the OEM fluids out in the US, Ashland is commonly known for there Valvolene & Syntec line of fluids, they also produce for NAPA, CarQuest, Parts Plus, along with many other big box outlets. heard of Amsoil (royal purple without the purple yup they produce for Amsoil also). Did you also know that Lubriguard makes many additives for OEM also not as common as the oils and hydraulic fluids though. (Penzoil and Castrol is Technical chemical company) Currently only Castrol (Technical chemical company) and Valvolene (Ashland oil) produce a product in the US market that they claim can be used in Z1 applications, although Honda never certifies anything else other than there own OEM brand of fluids oil, antifreeze, steering, etc. So it’s technically only a claim of application as they don’t have a license from Honda motor corp. to make any certainty of it (but you gota wonder who makes it Huh, take a good guess). For the most part like anything else its marketing and who will be willing to produce to a certain spec for someone else is what it comes down to for manufacturers, they couldn’t stay in business if they just sold product off the supermarket or parts store shelf.

HAHAHA im laughing if you call a Chrysler dealers parts department you will quickly learn that there is an ATF+5, it is not out in any other form in the after market yet at the moment other than OEM, and it is used in many of the newer Chrysler, Dodge vehicles (yup those mini van trannys just love to crap out) its so new that many dealerships have not begun to change the fluids yet in those applications for the better part. In fact if you step into a showroom and drop a seat into a vehicle and ask the salesperson for the manual go to the recommended fluid section guess what you will find, enough said.
I’ll check with my sources tomorrow and get back to you.

As far as the Honda fluid reviews I think it more an issue with the cost of the product that has driven people to dislike it.
That’s part of it, but I have my own sources who have told me that Honda’s fluid is very iffy at best. However I’m not at liberty to disclose who told me this, but I can assure you that the person is very credible.

Honda as virtually all manufactures out source their fluids along with much other things that go into a vehicle not just Honda
Correct. The OEM will develop the specs for the fluid and have additive companies build the package.

Ashland oil makes a better half of the OEM fluids out in the US, Ashland is commonly known for there Valvolene & Syntec line of fluids, they also produce for NAPA, CarQuest, Parts Plus, along with many other big box outlets. heard of Amsoil (royal purple without the purple yup they produce for Amsoil also). Did you also know that Lubriguard makes many additives for OEM also not as common as the oils and hydraulic fluids though. Currently only Castrol (Technical chemical company) and Valvolene (Ashland oil) produce a product in the US market that they claim can be used in Z1 applications, although Honda never certifies anything else other than there own OEM brand of fluids oil, antifreeze, steering, etc. So it’s technically only a claim of application as they don’t have a license from Honda motor corp. to make any certainty of it (but you gota wonder who makes it Huh, take a good guess). For the most part like anything else its marketing and who will be willing to produce to a certain spec for someone else is what it comes down to for manufacturers, they couldn’t stay in business if they just sold product off the supermarket shelf.

I know a number of Amsoil dealers myself and am quite familiar with the product. As far as I know there’s no relationship between Amsoil and Ashland. Some of Lubegard’s products may be used by an OEM, but they don’t produce anything for an OEM specifically. I know BG did work with VW/Audi on a project, however.

Castrol and Valvoline are merely blenders. The developers of additive package is probably either Lubrizol, Infineum, or Afton. Pennzoil has had a multi-vehicle product on the market now for years and so has Amsoil. RP and RL recently joined the multi-vehicle ATF bandwagon several months ago.

I know when we had an older Cadillac probably about 10 years ago it had some transmission work done and they drained the fluid that was in it filtered it and then put the same fluid back in the transmission then topped it off (automatic). I also have an automatic and I know all the routine scheduled maintinance has been done up to this point (38k miles) so would that mean it hasn't ever been changed on my car? I just got it in September so I can check the paperwork if I ever get around to it. Should I wait until the 48k or should I be doing it ASAP? Thanks

Didnt mean to make Ashland to have an asssociation with Amsoil, Its rather Amsoil out sources some of its offering from Royal Purple go figure there suppose to be competitors. I deal with RPL directly, and even a few of their offering are made by another company coincidentaly Lubriguard makes a couple of items for them one is an additive which reduces the temp of your coolant they use even the same bottle just the label is RPL, and lubriguard Has their own label on theirs go figure, Its just to obvious then usual.

And i was mistaken ATF+5 has actualy been out from 2002 but its not to familiar commonly in the aftermarket, most folks have only heard up to ATF+4, basicaly its a new Chrysler spec go figure what next ATF+6, 7, 8 well i wont hold my breath.

Needless to say More maintenance is better then little or no maintenance!!!
It means you really CARE about what your driveing!!!!

And keeping it fresh with what it should run with will certainly pay off in the long run and I’m sure we all can agree to that !!

Just do it !

Here's Most of the type's out there:
Type F -- Introduced by Ford in 1967 for their automatics. Also used by Toyota.
Type CJ -- Special fluid for Ford C6 transmissions. Similar to Dexron II. Must not be used in automatics that require Type F. Can be replaced with Mercon or Mercon V.
Type H -- Another limited Ford spec that differs from both Dexron and Type F. Can be replaced with Mercon or Mercon V.
Mercon -- Ford fluid introduced in 1987, very similar to Dexron II. Okay for all earlier Fords except those that require Type F. As of July 1, 2007, the production and licensing of Mercon ATF by Ford ends. Ford says applications that require Mercon ATF can now be serviced with Mercon V.
Mercon V -- Ford's newest type, introduced in 1997 for Ranger, Explorer V6 and Aerostar, and 1998 & up Windstar, Taurus/Sable and Continental. This is the current ATF for all late model Ford products.
Dexron -- General Motors original ATF for automatics.
Dexron II -- Improved GM formula with better viscosity control and additional oxidation inhibitors. Can be used in place of Dexron.
Dexron IIE -- GM fluid for electronic transmissions.
Dexron III -- Replaces Dexron IIE and adds improved oxidation and corrosion control in GM electronic automatics.
Dexron III (H) -- Improved version of Dexron III released in 2003.
Dexron III/Saturn -- A special fluid spec for Saturns.
Dexron-VI -- For 2006 GM Hydra-Matic 6L80 6-speed rear-wheel-drive transmissions, can also be used in 2005 transmissions that require Dexron III but is NOT recommended for older transmissions or Saturn VUE transmissions.
Chrysler 7176 -- For Chrysler FWD transaxles.
Chrysler 7176D (ATF+2) -- Adds improved cold temperature flow and oxidation resistance. Introduced 1997.
Chrysler 7176E (ATF+3) -- Adds improved shear stability and uses a higher quality base oil. Required for four-speed automatics (do NOT use Dexron or Mercon as a substitute).
Chrysler ATF+4 (ATE) -- Introduced in 1998, ATF+4 is synthetic and replaces the previous ATF+3 fluid. Used primarily for 2000 and 2001 vehicles, it can also be used in earlier Chrysler transmissions (except 1999 and older minivans with 41TE/AE transmission). ATF+3 should continue to be used for 1999 and earlier minivans because of the potential for torque converter shudder during break in.
NOTE:Chrysler ATF+4 Must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with ATF+4. The red dye used in ATF+4 is not permanent. As the fluid ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4 also has a unique odor that may change with age. Therefore, do not relay on the color and odor of ATF+4 to determine if the fluid needs to be changed. Follow the OEM recommended service interval.
Chrysler ATF+5 for 2002 and newer models.
IMPORT APPLICATIONS:
BMW LT7114l or LA2634 -- Special formula for BMW transmissions.
Genuine Honda ZL ATF -- Special ATF for Honda automatics (except CVT applications).
Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II & SP-Ill -- Special formula ATFs for Mitsubishi transmissions.
Nissan J-Matic -- Special formula for Nissan transmissions.
Toyota Type T, T-III & T-IV -- Special formula ATFs for Toyota and Lexus transmissions.

I have a question for those who go by the idea that more maintenance is better than no maintenance.

how do you decide between money and car care? From an anaylization stand point, why change the ATF if it's still clear when you check it?

As far as the Honda fluid reviews I think it more an issue with the cost of the product that has driven people to dislike it.

If you really think it is a cost issue you should go check with some more sources. People are ditching ATF-Z1 for Amsoil. I bought 12 quarts ATF-Z1 @ $4.86 a quart. The second time around, I bought Amsoil @ $9.95/qt.

My issue with ATF-Z1 is it doesn't seem to like heat. Currently I have 3 quarts Amsoil and remainder (~4.2 qts) ATF-Z1 in the 4AT

257F flashpoint
http://www.worldpac.com/msds/WP_003.pdf
355F flashpoint
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=706193

Amsoil flashpoint 428F
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx

And i was mistaken ATF+5 has actualy been out from 2002 but its not to familiar commonly in the aftermarket, most folks have only heard up to ATF+4, basicaly its a new Chrysler spec go figure what next ATF+6, 7, 8 well i wont hold my breath.
I still don't know where ATF+5 comes from. I have yet to see any Chrysler TSBs or info releases on this fluid.

BTW, I talked to my contact a few days ago regarding ATF+5. He recently published an SAE paper on behalf of his employer (which is coincidentally an OEM) regarding the various OEM fluids on the market. He is very familiar with what other OEMs are formulating and even he has never heard of ATF+5.

If you really think it is a cost issue you should go check with some more sources. People are ditching ATF-Z1 for Amsoil. I bought 12 quarts ATF-Z1 @ $4.86 a quart. The second time around, I bought Amsoil @ $9.95/qt.

My issue with ATF-Z1 is it doesn't seem to like heat. Currently I have 3 quarts Amsoil and remainder (~4.2 qts) ATF-Z1 in the 4AT

257F flashpoint
http://www.worldpac.com/msds/WP_003.pdf
355F flashpoint
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=706193

Amsoil flashpoint 428F
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx
My concern with ATF-Z1 isn't heat, and it isn't the base stocks either. People concentrate way too much on the basestock and not enough on the additive package.

My concern with Z1 is its additive package and how it behaves. Without going into details, I think the fluid needlessly accelerates wear.

Critic -

What would be your first choice as a substitute? I drive a stick but I'm curious.

Critic -

What would be your first choice as a substitute? I drive a stick but I'm curious.

Not sure. I think I might just avoid Honda autos all together. ;)

Hey Critic, What would you use if your wife drove an auto equipped Honda?

What have others "in the know" recommended?

Hey Critic, What would you use if your wife drove an auto equipped Honda?

What have others "in the know" recommended?

He told me that he isn't sure what he'd recommend. I guess I'd just stick with Z1, though I'd be tempted to give one of those multi-vehicle fluids a try.

However, considering that these transmissions rarely have a problem related to fluid anyway, as those that fail were doomed to fail in the first place, I'm not sure if fluid would make that much of a difference anyway.

However, considering that these transmissions rarely have a problem related to fluid anyway, as those that fail were doomed to fail in the first place, I'm not sure if fluid would make that much of a difference anyway.

...which may be a continuation of why they spec a fluid that is on lower end of the design requirements. However, they have fallen off that edge some here lately. It can be a slippery slope. Design work has came under the spotlight for cost-cutting such that you don't simply throw a 200% safety factor into a specific part and call it a day knowing that you have covered your butt.

Armystrong,

This is a debate that runs forever. They require you to run the Honda Z1 fluid b/c they make a lot of money from it. It really isn't all that great of a fluid. There are other options that are better.

Benjamming,
Castrol, Maxlife??

Be specific.

AMSOIL ATF, RLI (Renewable Lube Inc.) ATF, Neo ATF, Royal Mfg Synthetic, Amalie Universal, Redline D4, and Royal Purple Max ATF are some that are typically not on the parts stores shelves. The ones on the shelves just require looking at the back of the bottle for Z1 cert.

SO whats the verdict? I just did a drain and fill with castrol import z1....i'd like some informative definitive proof of the best fluid.

SO whats the verdict? I just did a drain and fill with castrol import z1....i'd like some informative definitive proof of the best fluid.
It's likely that no one will ever find out unless you are willing to invest some serious $$$ for thorough testing.

Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle is probably fine, leave it in there.

I'm considering the same, a custom blend. Maybe 20-30% Castrol Import or maybe a synthetic. Just to enough to give the Z1 a boost w/o totally mucking it up.