An article in the Houston Chronicle was featured in the Business section dated 5/30/2007. See link:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/biz/4846216.html

Excerpt from article:

None of that dampens hypermilers' enthusiasm. On Web sites like Wayne Gerdes', www.cleanmpg.com, and on www.greenhybrid.com, they share tales of achievement and photos of mileage displays.

Driving at or below the speed limit is the thing that gives me the best mpg out of all the techniques I've tried so far I think.

LOL starting and restarting your engine takes more gas than just letting it run.

LOL starting and restarting your engine takes more gas than just letting it run.
Not true on fuel injected engines

Not true on fuel injected engines

Yeah I guess I should have specified carb'ed engines.

Driving at or below the speed limit is the thing that gives me the best mpg out of all the techniques I've tried so far I think.

Ugh....I hate you people. If you're going to drive below the limit, then get the hell out of the way and let me pass.

as long as they are not holding up traffic in the PASSING LANE, then i have no problem with it...

as long as they are not holding up traffic in the PASSING LANE, then i have no problem with it...

Right. But I drive a one lane road more then halfway to work and I always seem to run into these bozos.

I'm all for saving a few bucks, but this is just a bit ridiculous. Turning off your engine while you're driving??? Stupid. :thumbsdow

hmmm, only thing that i can think of is either they find a different route, or you do.... :dunno:

not really too sure what else to say here...

About 1.5 years ago, I remember reading Wayne G's posts on different car forums and thinking that what he was doing with hypermiling sounded pretty cool.

Until I read this article:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/01/king_of_the_hypermilers.html?welcome=true

After reading that, he seemed more like a dangerous menace on the roads. It also seem sto me that he is conserving his own gas but very likely making other drivers waste more of theirs because many of them probably have to slow down at first just to accelerate past him on the highway or local roads.

In other words, if he's going 50 and everyone else is trying to go 70, he's causing his own little moving traffic jam by bottlenecking everyone around him, not to mention the potential to cause more accidents because he's driving regularly at speeds quite different from everyone else on the roads: slow cruising on straights, fast cornering on turns.

fanshawe,

i understand your point, and this has not been brought up til now.... glad that you thought of it. :yes:

i will say this tho: if people saw a slow car in front of them, they should make necessary preparations to get over long before they have to slow down, if possible. that way, rolling traffic jams are less likely to happen.

just my 2 cents.

Ugh....I hate you people. If you're going to drive below the limit, then get the hell out of the way and let me pass.

The highway is the only place I drive below the speed limit, and even then its only in the right lane. Believe me, I came from the group that used to drive by slower people with contempt until gas prices skyrocketed and I did a little research. So I know how you feel.

But have fun with passing those other peeps...

The highway is the only place I drive below the speed limit, and even then its only in the right lane. Believe me, I came from the group that used to drive by slower people with contempt until gas prices skyrocketed and I did a little research. So I know how you feel.

But have fun with passing those other peeps...

Cool.

Ok, so you wanna hear something funny and hypocritical at the same time? I was driving home on that same one lane road and theirs a hill that once you get to the top, its a nice long downgrade. Wanna guess what I did?















Threw the 6MT in neutral and coasted :lmao: Think I might have saved a penny with that move? :nuts:

Boy did that msn article stir it up.

I rolled home tonight to the tune of 58 mpg in the Civic. :thmsup:

Cool.

Ok, so you wanna hear something funny and hypocritical at the same time? I was driving home on that same one lane road and theirs a hill that once you get to the top, its a nice long downgrade. Wanna guess what I did?

Threw the 6MT in neutral and coasted :lmao: Think I might have saved a penny with that move? :nuts:


LOL. What, too skeerd to reach up and turn the ignition off too? :lmao:

LOL. What, too skeerd to reach up and turn the ignition off too? :lmao:

Yea, what am I thinking, breaking and steering are for pussies. :lmao:

The reason I'd be afraid to turn off the car at stops is because I'd be scared of wearing out the starter/alternator. Plus I still have the whole, intermittent hard starts thing. I know, I need to get the TSB done for that, but I haven't had time, and since I haven't been driving the car as regularly as I once was, it's been a long time since it's done it to me.

We replaced the starter in the Metro back in 2004.

I'm absolutely annoyed at hypermilers in the left lane doing 20 in a 35 zone downtown. Not only are they annoying they're idiots; explanation: the route I chose (carefully I might add) is synchronized the whole 5 miles if you accelerate normally and do the speed limit. If there's a moron in my way that means instead of coasting easily through almost all the intersections I end up stopping at more than half of them. STUPID STUPID STUPID!!! If you must do it DO IT IN THE RIGHT LANE! Rant over.

Otherwise want to save money and help the environment here's a few easy tips:

1. If you can walk and it's not too hot, too cold, too cumbersome, or to far. Do so.
2. You have errands? How about consolidating them into one trip if possible, and plan ahead in regards to route and traffic.
3. If possible avoid rush hour, leave early for work (what I do) you'll get more done, leave earlier from work, and have more time to do other things.
4. Proper tire pressures.
5. Proper maintenance.

[QUOTE=Peniole]....the route I chose (carefully I might add) is synchronized the whole 5 miles if you accelerate normally and do the speed limit..../QUOTE]


....synchronized traffic lights are great.....(but an amazing number of drivers around these parts speed up to them and stop).

Given that an AV6 6M provides stellar highway fuel economy (MUCH better than the 30 EPA on mah window sticker), heavy city usage is really a comedown......

...thus avoiding the rush hour (if possible) is great advice!!

..cheers..ez

I'm absolutely annoyed at hypermilers in the left lane doing 20 in a 35 zone downtown. the route I chose (carefully I might add) is synchronized the whole 5 miles if you accelerate normally and do the speed limit.

I'm no expert but those drivers you're describing don't sound like "hypermilers" sound more like old people or tourists...

I'm no expert but those drivers you're describing don't sound like "hypermilers" sound more like old people or tourists...

You see that's what I would initially think too. But what would tourists be doing up at 7am, and why are they the same tourists every single day? They don't look that old to me either :dunno:

Don't get me wrong, I love hypermiling (safely and in the right lane of course). I keep my tire pressure 2PSI above door jamb (not a lot but helps a bit), don't accelerate hard, use the tallest gear without sacrificing all acceleration, will neutral coast (basically all the way back home), but I would never ever turn off the engine (just doesn't sound safe to me). Add to that when I'm on the highway I don't speed. Result I get EPA+ both city and highway. In the city on a good tank without slowpokes in the left lane forcing me to stop at every intersection I get 28, average I get 24-25. Highway best of 39, average of 37.

Here's the best part of all that (hypermiling/walking more/consolidating trips/no rushhour). I generally put about 10 gallons per fillup, and fill it up about 3 times every 2 months.

Not to sound preachy but SAFE hypermiling is only a small part of the solution, you need a well maintained fuel efficient car, more walking, less driving, and more smart driving. People need to change the way they think about driving around these parts.

lol the same tourists every day I doubt that's the case, you would figure they'd figure out the timing of the lights if they're there everyday :dunno:

good points btw

lol the same tourists every day I doubt that's the case, you would figure they'd figure out the timing of the lights if they're there everyday :dunno:

Exactly! I wish they really would. You think flyers might work :lmao:

he is conserving his own gas but very likely making other drivers waste more of theirs


You are correct! When I encounter a hypermiler on the road, I blast my horn at them for such an extended period of time that my battery starts to drain and puts a load on my alternator, thus loading down my engine and using more of my gas. :rant:

You are correct! When I encounter a hypermiler on the road, I blast my horn at them for such an extended period of time that my battery starts to drain and puts a load on my alternator, thus loading down my engine and using more of my gas. :rant:

i think that hi-beaming them would use more gas.... :yes:

We just ignore you folks that high beam, blast horn, and bum rush lights.

I get a kick at the idiots that go flying past me on my way to work. After the last stop light in Okmulgee it 23 miles to the next in Glenpool. They fly past me. Really proud of themselves. I get off the hwy and take a diff. route around the light in Glenpool and Jenks. Most times Im on the turnpike looking down at the idiots as I go my marry way and there stuck in traffic with big oil's gonads bouncing off there chin's.

Its almost comical to see just how bad American drivers are and how poorly most have layed out there duty's of a day and how they go about them. Esp. behind the wheel of a car.

psy

All cars have an optimal point where the speed = best economy, the AA did various tests and came up with speeds of betweeen 55 and 62 mph dependant on the make/model car..

Whether or not you stick to those speeds is optional. Personaly I prefer to drive faster as it shortens journey time and makes me more attentive to driving conditions. I very much doubt if I could concentrate well for very long, when doing 55 mph behind a big truck in the slow lane!

I don't have the radio or any music on when moving, and try to keep the car interior the cool side of "comfortable".. I use the **"running comentary" system of driving as an aid to concentration and awareness.. Ok so it may be pointless, but having driven for 50 years in the UK with no accidents, I think it works well for me.. :)

I would add that I have been in 3 quite serious crashes on the roads here, but was a passenger, not the driver in those instances..

** You talk to yourself (in your head) as though describing in detail what's going on to a friend, e.g. like other cars road speeds, are they slower than you? gaining on the vehicle in front of them so likely to be changing lanes shortly? road surface type, weather conditions, approaching hazards, etc etc.. The reason I do it, is because I think is keeps my mind firmly on what I am doing, and helps prevent me fom thinking about what I am going to be doing tonight, what I did last night, football, wimmen ( :) ) etc etc..

I am anti freewheelers, but do appeciate that what they are doing does make them concemtrate 100% on their driving, so it does have some merit..
.

i think that hi-beaming them would use more gas.... :yes:

Ahhhhh, I follow you. You're saying I should honk the horn and flash the lights at them. Got it - great idea! Thanks! :banana:

We just ignore you folks that high beam, blast horn, and bum rush lights.

I get a kick at the idiots that go flying past me on my way to work. After the last stop light in Okmulgee it 23 miles to the next in Glenpool. They fly past me. Really proud of themselves. I get off the hwy and take a diff. route around the light in Glenpool and Jenks. Most times Im on the turnpike looking down at the idiots as I go my marry way and there stuck in traffic with big oil's gonads bouncing off there chin's.

Its almost comical to see just how bad American drivers are and how poorly most have layed out there duty's of a day and how they go about them. Esp. behind the wheel of a car.

psy



You entirely miss "the point"

The whole thing is about USING that fine instrument of a car you picked out.


Get it?

Back in the late 70's, during the Energy Crisis, national speed limit policy was set at 55 MPH because that speed was considered reasonably fast, but still close to the most efficient vehicle speed possible, which is around 45 MPH. And while people whined about 55 being too slow, it resulted in reduced national fuel consumption. Coincidentally, it also reduced traffic fatalities.

At 45 MPH, you're covering roughly the most distance you can before wind resistance (drag) begins to take its toll on fuel economy. Each mile traveled over that speed reduces fuel economy in exponential manner.

I wouldn't recommend it, but try running against hurricane force winds at, say, 80 MPH. You wouldn't find it easy, if even possible at all. Then consider trying to shove a car through winds that swift. Even though a car is more aerodynamic than a human, it's still requires a lot of energy (read, fuel) to overcome drag that heavy.

A couple of years ago I went on a road trip in the mountains of Idaho in my Prizm, which usually averages around 34 or so on the highway at about 65 MPH. The roads were twisty, but mostly flat where we were, and this limited my speed to around 45 MPH. On a leg of this trip I pulled down 46 MPG, which I was most pleased with. And bear in mind that my engine is tuned for performance (not economy), being a "G" designated 4A variant. If I had the more common (and economy tuned) 4A-FE I would have easily broken MPG in the 50's.

I'd agree with those who believe 55 is a rather slow way to get around-- It feels slow, at least. But if fuel saving is one's goal, 55/45 is the best way to achieve it. It can make a massive difference, considered on a national level...

We just ignore you folks that high beam, blast horn, and bum rush lights.

I get a kick at the idiots that go flying past me on my way to work. After the last stop light in Okmulgee it 23 miles to the next in Glenpool. They fly past me. Really proud of themselves. I get off the hwy and take a diff. route around the light in Glenpool and Jenks. Most times Im on the turnpike looking down at the idiots as I go my marry way and there stuck in traffic with big oil's gonads bouncing off there chin's.

Its almost comical to see just how bad American drivers are and how poorly most have layed out there duty's of a day and how they go about them. Esp. behind the wheel of a car.

psy

Wow, well aren't you just the smug one. :rolleyes:

You entirely miss "the point"

The whole thing is about USING that fine instrument of a car you picked out.


Get it?


How am I not using my car? Does my foot have to be buried in the gas or brake pedal all the time to be using the benny's of my car? :dunno:

psy

Wow, well aren't you just the smug one. :rolleyes:

I dont see smug.

I see a drive that obeys the law on the road. Max Speed Limit 65 mph, Min Speed Limit 40 mph. Stay in the right lane and drive 50 to 60 mph. Thats smug?

I see a driver that goes around a 3 mile traffic jam that takes 20 mins to get thru. Hows that smug?

I see a driver that plans his daily drive out. Leaves in a timely manor to arrive at work on time and not have to be a animal on the hwy. Smug?

I see a driver that routinely this time of year gets 50 to 52 mpg per work segment in 06 Civic. 40 to 42 mpg in a 05 Accord on the same drive and 30 to 32 mpg in a Ranger when driven on this drive.

I guess limiting big oil to my money is smug also?

Need we get into some of your statements concerning the thread? I know,, your the person stuck in traffic blaming the hypermiler. :yes:

psy

Cool.

Ok, so you wanna hear something funny and hypocritical at the same time? I was driving home on that same one lane road and theirs a hill that once you get to the top, its a nice long downgrade. Wanna guess what I did?


Threw the 6MT in neutral and coasted :lmao: Think I might have saved a penny with that move? :nuts:

next time throw your 6mt in 5th or 6th and coast. sitting in neutral uses gas.

I do not hypermile, though I do try to increase economy on the highway. Bottom line, if you are hypermiling, do it in the slow lane. That is what the slow lane is there for. The fast lane is not for driving 20mph under the speed limit. Secondly, looking down your nose at people who choose not to hypermile simply makes you appear arrogant and "smug". Hypermiling does not automatically make you a better driver or NOT "comical" yourself. If you drive an accord and want to get better gas mileage such that you resort to hypermiling, then you have made a poor choice of cars. The accord gets better mileage than many cars, though there are still a few more that get much better mileage.

I do not hypermile, though I do try to increase economy on the highway. Bottom line, if you are hypermiling, do it in the slow lane. That is what the slow lane is there for. The fast lane is not for driving 20mph under the speed limit. Secondly, looking down your nose at people who choose not to hypermile simply makes you appear arrogant and "smug".

I wish people would stop using hypermilers as scapegoats for all bad drivers. Bottom line is, if you've educated yourself in the facts of how and why to hypermile, you're not going to be this person driving in the passing lane of the highway. These people are not hypermilers, they are just BAD drivers. The two are separate.

Hypermiling does not automatically make you a better driver or NOT "comical" yourself.

On the same token, speeding and passing slower drivers doesn't automatically make you better driver than people trying to hypermile.

If you drive an accord and want to get better gas mileage such that you resort to hypermiling, then you have made a poor choice of cars. The accord gets better mileage than many cars, though there are still a few more that get much better mileage.

Why is the accord a bad choice to hypermile? I'm not a fan of any other designs of cars that get better mileage than the accord. Why should I feel the need to settle for a car that I dont like just to get better mileage when the accord gets avg 39mpg for me?

Bottom line is that certain people should stop taking their frustrations out on hypermilers when they have no vaild reason to. Don't jump on the bandwagon and bash hypermilers because you wanna drive an SUV and suck fuel or yell at slower cars in the right lane because you didn't look far enough ahead and figure out the best way to pass before you had to hit your brakes.

I'm not saying this all to you, chanke4252, just wanted to add a few points to a few of your comments.

I do not hypermile, though I do try to increase economy on the highway. Bottom line, if you are hypermiling, do it in the slow lane. That is what the slow lane is there for. The fast lane is not for driving 20mph under the speed limit.
Agreed. In my opinion cruising at 20mph under the speed limit is an extreme example but I understand the point you're making and agree. The thing is I don't think most people that are applying these hypermiling techniques hang out in the fast lane.

If you drive an accord and want to get better gas mileage such that you resort to hypermiling, then you have made a poor choice of cars. The accord gets better mileage than many cars, though there are still a few more that get much better mileage.
I don't understand your logic. Are you saying the Accord is a bad choice because it already gets good mileage or are you saying its a bad choice because there are a few more that get much better mileage? If I'm sitting at a stop light and I know it will be red for a long time I don't see why I shouldn't turn my car off. I don't think I should just sit there and say gee I made a bad choice in cars to try to improve my mileage on I should have bought a hybrid I'll just sit here and run my engine. Likewise I don't think I should sit there and say I made a bad choice in cars to improve my mileage on I'll just sit here and run this engine because it already gets better mileage than that suburban. Either way, I just don't understand that logic. Just my opinion but no matter what you drive you can try to get better mileage out of it.

Bottom line is that certain people should stop taking their frustrations out on hypermilers when they have no vaild reason to. Don't jump on the bandwagon and bash hypermilers because you wanna drive an SUV and suck fuel or yell at slower cars in the right lane because you didn't look far enough ahead and figure out the best way to pass before you had to hit your brakes.

As someone who's trying out these hypermiling techniques I agree kneejerk reactions of people associating the hypermilers with the just plain stupid drivers out there seems uncool. Likewise, those of us trying to improve our fuel economy shouldn't dismiss those less interested simply as people that "wanna drive an SUV and suck fuel or yell at slower cars in the right lane because [they] didn't look far enough ahead and figure out the best way to pass before they hit their brakes". Generalizations like that will make us all seem, dare I say it, smug.

I wasn't saying hypermilers are the ones hanging out in the fast lane going slow, nor are they bad drivers, nor was i saying anything about hypermilers in general. I was mainly commenting on psyshack's posts that SEEMED to contain a bit of arrogance and an "I'm better than you because I hypermile" attitude. His whole thing about ignoring people who honk and flash high beams kind of annoyed me because people are going to tend to do that when he is NOT driving in the slow lane when he should be or when he is WAY below the speed limit.

I personally don't tend to lump overinflating tires, reasonably reducing your speed, or picking the right gear for the job as hypermiling. I guess when I think of hypermiling I think of pulse driving and shutting off engines during downhills which seems a bit extreme for mileage, to me anyway. Though, these are just differences in nomenclature really. I think if I were going to do that to a car to get better mileage out of it, I would probably already explored my other options and already have a more fuel efficient car like a hybrid or a corolla or civic or something, not a 3000+lb midsize. Of course, this is just my opinion.

Also, good posts SCADABA, I'm always happy to see people trying to see both sides.

Also, good posts SCADABA, I'm always happy to see people trying to see both sides.


As someone who's trying out these hypermiling techniques I agree kneejerk reactions of people associating the hypermilers with the just plain stupid drivers out there seems uncool. Likewise, those of us trying to improve our fuel economy shouldn't dismiss those less interested simply as people that "wanna drive an SUV and suck fuel or yell at slower cars in the right lane because [they] didn't look far enough ahead and figure out the best way to pass before they hit their brakes". Generalizations like that will make us all seem, dare I say it, smug.


Ah! I know, I try to look at all sides of the argument and there I go missing one. :thumbsup:

I dont see smug.

I see a drive that obeys the law on the road. Max Speed Limit 65 mph, Min Speed Limit 40 mph. Stay in the right lane and drive 50 to 60 mph. Thats smug?

I see a driver that goes around a 3 mile traffic jam that takes 20 mins to get thru. Hows that smug?

I see a driver that plans his daily drive out. Leaves in a timely manor to arrive at work on time and not have to be a animal on the hwy. Smug?

I see a driver that routinely this time of year gets 50 to 52 mpg per work segment in 06 Civic. 40 to 42 mpg in a 05 Accord on the same drive and 30 to 32 mpg in a Ranger when driven on this drive.

I guess limiting big oil to my money is smug also?

Need we get into some of your statements concerning the thread? I know,, your the person stuck in traffic blaming the hypermiler. :yes:

psy

Maybe you're not familiar with the definition. Here you go:

smug
1. Contentedly confident of one's ability, superiority, or correctness; complacent.

2. Exhibiting or feeling great or offensive satisfaction with oneself or with one's situation

Bottom line is that certain people should stop taking their frustrations out on hypermilers when they have no vaild reason to. Don't jump on the bandwagon and bash hypermilers because you wanna drive an SUV and suck fuel or yell at slower cars in the right lane because you didn't look far enough ahead and figure out the best way to pass before you had to hit your brakes.

I'm not saying this all to you, chanke4252, just wanted to add a few points to a few of your comments.

SMUG ALERT!!

This is all getting retarded. Drive how you want, I'm not going to urge anyone to change their ways. But if anyone feels like trying to better their mpg, you can always PM the ones that do.

George Carlin best summed up the attitude of drivers "Everyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and everyone going faster is a maniac!"

George Carlin best summed up the attitude of drivers "Everyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and everyone going faster is a maniac!"

And the one's saving money on petrol have extra money for toys!!!

We just ignore you folks that high beam, blast horn, and bum rush lights.

FWIW, I was kidding around in my previous two posts (in this thread). I thought my posts were goofy enough that they would clearly be construed as jokes.




About 1.5 years ago, I remember reading Wayne G's posts on different car forums and thinking that what he was doing with hypermiling sounded pretty cool.

Until I read this article:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/01/king_of_the_hypermilers.html?welcome=true


I did have a few thoughts on this article, but I'll post those next time...

if ur running a manual... and on a hill (long hill) turn off ur engine and u can put in the clutch and put the key at the on position... when u need to start the engine again put ur car in the highest gear (5-6) and let out the clutch gently... it will start the engine... no starter or anything... if ur on the highway and want to get some extra gas mileage and ur good at paying attention... (quick reactions and all) drive about 1 to 2 cars behind a semi... if he slams them he takes longer to stop than ur car... so u should be fine... ur gas mileage will go up 20-30%

lmao!

hypermilers are funny. most have the goal to save gas, better the world, save the environment, blah blah blah. yet they cause the remaining 99% of motorists to use more gas and kill the environment. does that make any sense at all?? heck, even old grannie who drives slow is getting caught up in the trafffic jam resulting from hypermiling. and you're lucky if she doesn't slam into ya since she can barely see! :lmao:

and they're never going to change the masses.

to me they're like bicyclists slowly cruising down the road in your way..... when you get a chance to pass, do it and try to stir up some gravel in your wake. bonus points if you'd like to blare your horn or toss sharp objects from your trunk to flatten some overinflated tires. :lmao:

Hi Anysia:
Hypermilers are funny. most have the goal to save gas, better the world, save the environment, blah blah blah. yet they cause the remaining 99% of motorists to use more gas and kill the environment. does that make any sense at all?? heck, even old grannie who drives slow is getting caught up in the trafffic jam resulting from hypermiling. and you're lucky if she doesn't slam into ya since she can barely see! :lmao:

and they're never going to change the masses.

to me they're like bicyclists slowly cruising down the road in your way..... when you get a chance to pass, do it and try to stir up some gravel in your wake. bonus points if you'd like to blare your horn or toss sharp objects from your trunk to flatten some overinflated tires. :lmao:

___Talk about not knowing what the heck you are talking about :rolleyes:

___Last tank allowed 1,098 miles at 58.4 mpg’s although I did lend out the Accord to a non-hypermiler while I reviewed her 2002 Prius-I and the results over 1,800 miles were not pretty :( Hypermiler’s do not run the left lanes of Interstates although I see that seems to be the prevailing idea?

___To the worst skeptics, I always offer weekly clinics to show you how it is done in real time. This entails an initial 3.5 all-city w/ a Grocery store, Blockbuster video, Menard’s parking lots and back to my home test route. After they get done, I take the same test route in their vehicle. Then we go out on a clinic to the back country roads to the North so they can practice the more advanced techniques. Once that is complete, they drive the same 3.5 mile test route for their final exam. I had a reporter here from the Chicago Tribune driving an 04 Civic not three weeks ago. She pulled a 24.x on the nightmare test course when she first arrived green. I hit 47. During the clinic portion, she hit a round trip 51.x mpg’s. For the final exam, she pulled 41 on the same 3.5 mile nightmare test course with even heavier traffic that she had just reached 24.x a few hours earlier. Take with that what you want. The results are worth my time to teach others. For those that do not care, I guess you can make believe what ever you want?

___The thing that bothers me the most is when everybody is sitting in an infamous Chicago stop and crawl out on I-94/294, I open the windows and a 1,000 cars and trucks within 3 miles to the front and to rear are all idling away burning fuel going nowhere while waiting for an accident to be cleared caused by yet another knuckle dragger at 20 over smashing into the back of a Minivan? I understand the need for some to run the heck out of their vehicles just so they can beat the next guy to the bumper in front of them but I laugh while I pass them by as the light turns green 20% of the time. This makes for some silly use of gasoline given the US men and woman dying around the world for its protection so we can burn it for the heck of it?

___Think back to 9/11. If everybody received 45 mpg, we would not be importing any oil and guess who would not have been be receiving any Petrol $’s? Receiving 45 from an Accord in maybe 80% of the country is child’s play. I know this is beyond some folks but you have a choice. I choose to save while others appear to throw it away to the detriment of us all :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/11.png (http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?page=garage&displayunits=MPG(US)&viewcar=11)http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/Terrapass_Sig.jpg

hey, kid you not xcel, but even though my gas mileage suffered a little in chicago bumper to bumper messes on the i90/94 corridor during my 13k plus mileage "experiment" a couple of summer's ago, i was still pulling off 34-36 mpg, ac cranking, through that area.

your other problem is that you're creating traffic jams in areas where there weren't traffic jams to begin with when people in no-man's-land start trying to follow your guide lines.

you are saving 1% of the population a teeny tiny bit of gas, meanwhile causing the other 99% of the population to use alot more gas. road rage runs rampant. you can't deny that. and you can't stop that. you're doing a great job of adding fuel to that fire though. and road rage typically also results in lots of peeling tires, flooring it at lights, etc. all known to use even more gas.

a very generic equation for ya:

20 cars on road a.
8 cars driving their normal style. 11 suvs driving their normal style. 1 car in the front following the hypermiler way.

1 hypermiler saves 5 gallons of gas in 1 mile
8 cars use 1 gallon more a piece because of braking and gassing repeatedly as the domino effect takes hold from people driving too close (which you won't stop them from doing by cruising up in front as the hypermiler-you're adding fuel to that fire making them tail closer and closer and closer with ever foot they drive).
11 suv's chug down 3 more gallons in that mile.

you save 5 gallons of gas
the 8 cars use 8 more gallons of gas total
the 11 suvs use 33 more gallons of gas total

for every 5 gallons saved, there were 41 more than normal used, thus resulting in a net loss of 36 gallons of gas over those 20 cars and 1 mile of driving. all for you to save the world by saving 5 gallons in your own car.

yes, this is an "extreme" example. no it is not based on any scientific fact other than knowing (which i do believe you do actually concur with) that traffic causes the general public to do things that waste gas. but the point of it is that for every one driver you convert, you're ticking off alot more who in turn consume alot more gas than that one person is saving.

no doubt you can push your car and get into questionable driving practices in order to save gas yourself. but you can't convert the masses. and in fact create somewhat of the exact opposite effect than what you intended. :yes:

oh, and if everyone got 45 mpg, we would very much so still be importing oil.

the after effects of 9/11 are more to blame on the government itself than any one single person's driving habits. the "war" over there is a civil war and imho we have no business being involved at all at this point. it's not our war to fight. but our govt seems to think it is (well, the leading portion of the govt, note a large portion actually think we should be done over there as well). don't try to pit lost lives of soldiers on everyday americans who increasingly show that we don't support the govt's choice in staying over there. (disclaimer, i DO support the troops as after they sign on to be a part of the navy, airforce, marines, etc, they have no choice in going over there, they are just obeying orders. i do NOT support our govt's choices and have not supported them in quite some time. i think we did what we should've initially, then got way too carried away with george w. thinking he could take over where daddy left off.)

I do not share YOUR point of view with regards to politics.

Is this really the kind of forum to make sure YOUR political message is heard?

I don't think so.

I do not share YOUR point of view with regards to politics.

Is this really the kind of forum to make sure YOUR political message is heard?

I don't think so.

if you weren't allowed to speak politically on this forum, the mods would make that clear. but since they haven't, I think she can say what she believes as long as there are no personal attacks, right mods?????

also, you can use that nice feature of "ignore user" if you wish to not read her opinions. :thmsup:

Then as long as I don't refer directly to a person making absurd, pinheaded, Liberal, moron, remarks, it's perfectly OK?

GREAT! Let's get ready to rumble!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


if you weren't allowed to speak politically on this forum, the mods would make that clear. but since they haven't, I think she can say what she believes as long as there are no personal attacks, right mods?????

also, you can use that nice feature of "ignore user" if you wish to not read her opinions. :thmsup:

Then as long as I don't refer directly to a person making absurd, pinheaded, Liberal, moron, remarks, it's perfectly OK?

GREAT! Let's get ready to rumble!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

sounds about right. might need stiller fan's clearification on that though.

I don't hypermile, but I do try to follow some of the less extreme tenets, and I have been seeing a difference. I first recognized the concept of saving a bunch of gas by driving slowly and conservatively maybe 2-3 years ago when a guy on Explorer Forums was able to get 30MPG out of a 4.0L V6 Ford Explorer by taking off the roof rack, driving at the speed limit and accelerating slowly. Just by driving less agressively (but still speeding about 10 over) I was able to go from 19MPG Highway to 21, not a great improvement, but over time it was certainly significant, and didn't piss off anyone else.

When I got my Accord I started driving more aggressively again because A) It is a fun car to drive, and B) either way I was getting WAY more mileage than with my Ex.

After reading the MSN article which mentioned Wayne's Accord I realized I could be doing much better mileage wise and have started to change my driving habits once again.

I drive back and forth from Baltimore every day in the summer so I have a lot of highway driving. Before on 495 I would go 70 (15 over) and 75 on i95 (10 over), and now I have slowed to 64 and 69 respectively. I also focus on accelerating as slowly as possible while not opening myself to road rage.

I also turn off the AC when its bearable, and even if its really hot I turn it off for 5-10 minutes and turn it back on once I feel uncomfortable.

Overall my mileage has gone from 31-33 to 34-36 mpg with about 15% city/traffic driving mixed in. Next thing I'll try is to turn off the engine at longer traffic lights. I really want to get a 4 day trip with no traffic, I imagine I'm getting 37+ hwy miles.

Some of the more involved hypermiling techniques do seem a bit risky, but are they more risky than driving 20 over while talking on your cell phone the whole way which like 75% of DC Metro area drivers do?

You can tailgate a semi as long as you are alert, they will take longer to brake than you, I don't suggest it, but as long as you are not distracted by other things like phones and kids, it isn't suicidal.

Take from the movement what you want, but I think a lot of drivers could learn something from the hypermilers, and at least gain a couple mpg by slightly tweaking their driving style and speed.

Then as long as I don't refer directly to a person making absurd, pinheaded, Liberal, moron, remarks, it's perfectly OK?

GREAT! Let's get ready to rumble!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

discussion=allowed. bashing a person=not allowed. discussions, even if you don't agree with the viewpoint=allowed. discussions which turn into saying "hey joe schmoe you're a complete jackbutt because you believe this" not allowed.

so, don't point the finger at me for starting the political talk and stating my opinion. i do believe xcel mentioned the political implications first (US men and women dying for gasoline/going back to 9/11/Petrol money/etc). therefore it has become a part of this discussion on hypermilers. i choose to state my opinions regarding those lost lives. and not for one moment did i discount those people who died trying to defend george w's thinking. i point blank do not agree with george w. and i think those lost lives can be pinned on him. not the average driver in the us using gasoline as xcel tries to claim it the lost lives are from.

take from it what you will, but it is free speech and that is my opinion on why we are still to this day continuing to spare lives of US citizens over there.

my "bashing" is towards the govt & towards the group collectively as hypermilers, not towards xcel as a person. my "bashing" is towards the viewpoints and actions, not to the specific person. xcel is entitled to believe what he wants and i'm entitled to throw some more thoughts out there to stir up the thinking and to possibly point out a perspective that hasn't been thought of. ("bashing" is in quotes, because i don't believe stating an opinion is bashing, but it seems that that is what you were thinking.)



This makes for some silly use of gasoline given the US men and woman dying around the world for its protection so we can burn it for the heck of it?

___Think back to 9/11. If everybody received 45 mpg, we would not be importing any oil and guess who would not have been be receiving any Petrol $’s? Receiving 45 from an Accord in maybe 80% of the country is child’s play. I know this is beyond some folks but you have a choice. I choose to save while others appear to throw it away to the detriment of us all

If folks want to get into the political aspects of this, take it into the PIT area of the forum and let's keep this topic somewhat pertinent to the subject matter of hypermiling. Of course, if you do choose to take up topics in the PIT, remember to keep a civil tongue, because the overall forum rules still apply!!!

andy (moderator - who tries to hypermile sometimes, but typically find the random school bus or "hat" driving around mucking up my progress :lmao: )

only thing i'd note about windows open versus ac on-windows open creates more drag than windows closed. when you're coasting, you won't coast as far due to the increased drag. therefore you'll sacrifice mpg's there too. so turn the ac off, roll up the windows and coast till your heart is content (or stops beating from the excessive temps inside the vehicle, whichever comes first :lmao: )

i believe we had some sort of "proof" the windows down/ac off veruss windows up/ac on didn't really affect things differently. by reasonable deduction, that would stand to mean that ac off/windows up may be the only way to truly gain in the mpg department. ;)

i believe we had some sort of "proof" the windows down/ac off veruss windows up/ac on didn't really affect things differently. by reasonable deduction, that would stand to mean that ac off/windows up may be the only way to truly gain in the mpg department. ;)
Yea - and after about 2 days of that in 90 degree temps, get the divorce papers ready, as my wife would be taking all of my worldly posessions. :biggrin:

Seriously, though, in watching the MPG display on the Freestyle and on the old Aztek, running at speed with the A/C on and windows up is actually friendlier than with them down. On the other hand, lots of stop and go and light accelleration really take their toll (mpg-wise) with the a/c on, and unless I want to enter divorce court, I'll suffer the lower mpg's...

andy (who doesn't wanna throw away 26+ good years) :thmsup:

Yea - and after about 2 days of that in 90 degree temps, get the divorce papers ready, as my wife would be taking all of my worldly posessions. :biggrin:

Seriously, though, in watching the MPG display on the Freestyle and on the old Aztek, running at speed with the A/C on and windows up is actually friendlier than with them down. On the other hand, lots of stop and go and light accelleration really take their toll (mpg-wise) with the a/c on, and unless I want to enter divorce court, I'll suffer the lower mpg's...

andy (who doesn't wanna throw away 26+ good years) :thmsup:

i'm with the wife on that one. windows up, ac on or else. :lmao: especially in stop and go traffic when air circulation is lacking!

I keep the windows cracked one inche with the vent system blowing 100%. It has to get pretty bad before the wife or I will turn the A/C on. She starts turning it on at around 95f. I about 98f. Of course there are times,, like in formal wear or something we will run it for a evening out to the theater or something. Over all its never needed in the morning. I do sometimes turn it on for a short bit if Ive been out on a job and just plain over heating. But after a normal day in the office it wont go on unless its 98F or above.

psy

i believe we had some sort of "proof" the windows down/ac off veruss windows up/ac on didn't really affect things differently. by reasonable deduction, that would stand to mean that ac off/windows up may be the only way to truly gain in the mpg department. ;)

Don't you watch mythbusters? They confirmed that A/C on and windows up saves gas, versus windows down and A/C off.

Personally I don't use the A/C, just the vent (sunroof and fan but no A/C) and it's cool enough for me. I don't roll my windows down.

Don't you watch mythbusters? They confirmed that A/C on and windows up saves gas, versus windows down and A/C off.

Personally I don't use the A/C, just the vent (sunroof and fan but no A/C) and it's cool enough for me. I don't roll my windows down.

did they do a full blown, check every style and make of car? :lmao: theoretically different styles of cars with different things added on/removed could have varying results. :lmao:

at any rate, i wilt at 95 or 98, and would be a hazard to others on the road, so ac is on and maxed out if it's 95 degrees in or outside of the car!

i'm still all for ac on full blast and windows down, moonroof open. :lmao: if i wanted to be hot, i'd ride a bike-no gas consumption at all then. ;)

These days it's been like 50s and 60s in the morning. In the afternoon when leaving work I roll down the windows and drive out and then roll them back up and use the vent. Letting the hot air escape cools down the car a lot instead of wasting gas with the A/C.

The house is so cool, I haven't even used the A/C yet. I'm going to love my $50-$60 electric bills this summer, versus almost $200 in the apartment... (Yes, the apartment cost more to heat/cool than the house!)

60 & 70's in the morning here. we just leace the windows up, set the temp and let the car do what it needs to in order to maintain the temp.

when i get into a hot car, i usually roll all windows down while loading everything up, then roll them up, crack the moonroof, set the temp to low/max ac and go. the moonroof seems to do alot more good in letting the hot air out than the windows do. i guess because hot air rises. ;)

the summer is when the costs go higher for me and always have been. on the flipside, the winter, costs are down. thermostat in home set at 62 when home, 58 when away. i have no idea what everyone is complaining about their gas bills for! :lmao:

but on the topic of hypermiling, i wont be rolling the windows down or leaving them up and turning off the ac to save a 1/2 a percent of my fuel useage. ;) i've never seen a noteable difference in mpg's from winter to summer ever before anyway.

~anysia~dang proud of her 23 mpg in her tsx.and even prouder of stevel's less than 20mpg in the accord. :thmsup:

The house is so cool, I haven't even used the A/C yet. I'm going to love my $50-$60 electric bills this summer, versus almost $200 in the apartment... (Yes, the apartment cost more to heat/cool than the house!)

I hate the $145 electric bill I just paid...... :(

I hate the $145 electric bill I just paid...... :(

My electric co. is a co-op which means it's member owned (you pay $5 to join when you initially sign up for service) so they basically sell it to you at cost.

Last bill was $59.

If folks want to get into the political aspects of this, take it into the PIT area of the forum and let's keep this topic somewhat pertinent to the subject matter of hypermiling. Of course, if you do choose to take up topics in the PIT, remember to keep a civil tongue, because the overall forum rules still apply!!!

andy

Very well said!

I agree with Xcel on his points saving fuel. My mom's Civic Hybrid is giving her great numbers. It currently reads 57.9 MPGs and she runs the A/C, drives 70, and loves that car to pieces. Thanks for all of the great reading on that car! She may not be getting 70, but its better than the 34 she got in the Elantra....:lmao:

Now...do I hypermile...no, but I do drive and think at the same time. I don't rush up to red lights, I try not to speed too much, and overall, I get higher than the rated highway EPA mileage and that is with city driving mixed. I don't want to give up a lot, but I find with sensible driving I can do my part to not "waste" fuel. I am actually very proud that I drive a car that is capable of 0-60 in 5.7s while still getting over 30mpg easily.

BTW....I've never seen my mom so excited about a car since she got the Civic Hybrid. She never ever gets excited.....but that 50+ MPG makes her smile all of the time.

you don't have to be a moving road block in order to save gas. you don't have to employ unsafe techniques to save gas.

first off, drive in pa or ohio, for example. the gas goes alot farther per gallon without any change in driving habit. :yes: in fact, there are some things that suggest you should be getting lower mpg's, but you don't-ie hills, congestion, etc. (im sure there are other states that also fit that bill, but oh and pa are the only two i can atest to from my own experiences.) wi is definitely NOT a "good" gas state. in order to "save the environment" they have some weird blends of gas that actually significantly hamper mpg's. (same driver, car, driving style easily loses 4-5 mpg on wisconsin gas...... :rolleyes: )

heck, i rev alot more than stevel. i peel out alot more than he does. he will throw it in nuetral alot. but i get better mpg's. he hangs out around 2000 rpms, i hang out around 3-3500. the car is more efficient there apparently. he'll drive my tsx and get say an average 23mpg. i hop in, drive it a few miles, and average mpg's will increase atleast a few tenths in that short distance.

or better yet, use a bike or your feet and hoof it. you don't use any gas that way.

ps~on political discussions-xcel makes it sound like he has 2 goals by hypermiling, save the world, and quit using gas so the troops can get out of iraq. sorry, but the govt has the final say there and even if we stop using gas altogether, i'm betting we'll still be hanging out in iraq pushing our viewpoints on a country that needs to determine their own. gas (oil actually) is the excuse in use right now to defend the reason we're there and xcel connected his hypermiling to the loss of lives to "save oil". anyway, i do believe some political discussion does pertain directly to the hypermiling topic at hand. but it was dropped, so please don't keep bringing it back up unless we want that portion of the discussion to continue...... :dunno: anytime anything is brought up in any thread, it's definitely at risk of taking the thread in another direction or bringing in new points to the topic at hand, otherwise, it wouldn't be a discussion. :yes: i would *hope* that as long as the political discussion pertains to hypermiling or implicates it in some way, then that degree of political discussion would be ok within this thread. if, however, the political discussion becomes just a political discussion and entirely drops the hypermiling connection, then it should go off into the pit......... :nuts:

I don't think that xcel was trying to say that hypermiling would end the war in Iraq, I think what he was implying is that a large portion of oil money does end up funding Al Qaeda who in turn organizes attacks upon Americans and even funds insurgent groups in Iraq. It is a fact that a lot of their funding comes from Saudi oil money, and the less we depend on their oil, the better.

I don't think hypermilers really cause traffic problems as long as they are in the far right lane, the trucks are already going 55-60 there anyways. Now if you are going 10 miles under speed limit in a left lane or on a one lane road, then you are doing more harm than good because all the people behind you WILL slam their brakes, and will floor their cars to overtake you.

As for the other techniques, an alert driver can pull them off fairly safely, I would say cell phone talking is far more dangerous.

you don't have to be a moving road block in order to save gas. you don't have to employ unsafe techniques to save gas.

Seems like the people speaking out against hypermiling in this thread have tried to argue that hypermilers drive slower than traffic speed in the passing lanes. This contradicts what I've read on the subject. Personally I'm a more careful driver now that I'm trying to employ the techniques comfortable I'm with. I'm not on my phone. I'm not cutting people off. That doesn't make it right for me to assume that if you're not interested in hypermiling that you're a bad driver and you talk on your cell phone, weave in and out of lanes trying to get ahead. I know it would be pretty weak to try to make an argument based on assumptions like that.


ps~on political discussions-xcel makes it sound like he has 2 goals by hypermiling, save the world, and quit using gas so the troops can get out of iraq. sorry, but the govt has the final say there and even if we stop using gas altogether, i'm betting we'll still be hanging out in iraq pushing our viewpoints on a country that needs to determine their own. gas (oil actually) is the excuse in use right now to defend the reason we're there and xcel connected his hypermiling to the loss of lives to "save oil". anyway, i do believe some political discussion does pertain directly to the hypermiling topic at hand. but it was dropped, so please don't keep bringing it back up unless we want that portion of the discussion to continue...... :dunno: anytime anything is brought up in any thread, it's definitely at risk of taking the thread in another direction or bringing in new points to the topic at hand, otherwise, it wouldn't be a discussion. :yes: i would *hope* that as long as the political discussion pertains to hypermiling or implicates it in some way, then that degree of political discussion would be ok within this thread. if, however, the political discussion becomes just a political discussion and entirely drops the hypermiling connection, then it should go off into the pit......... :nuts:
So you're going to get in the last word here and then say "we" won't allow you to talk anymore on the subject. Weak.:thumbsdow

Seems like the people speaking out against hypermiling in this thread have tried to argue that hypermilers drive slower than traffic speed in the passing lanes. This contradicts what I've read on the subject. Personally I'm a more careful driver now that I'm trying to employ the techniques comfortable I'm with. I'm not on my phone. I'm not cutting people off. That doesn't make it right for me to assume that if you're not interested in hypermiling that you're a bad driver and you talk on your cell phone, weave in and out of lanes trying to get ahead. I know it would be pretty weak to try to make an argument based on assumptions like that.
i'm not arguing that they're neccessariy holding up the passing lanes (though by driving excessively slower than the rest of traffic, even when they are not in the passing lane, the person driving slow (whether hypermiling is their goal or not) can still create a bit of a back up behind them to the typical driver.

i am arguing that they're holding up traffic on roads where there is no passing opportunity. roads where they can drive slow and force the rest of traffic behind them to drive slow as there is no opportunity to get out. yes, the other drivers can slow down and pace themselves behind the slow hypermiler. but in reality will 90% of the population do that? no. they'll continue to tailgate, brake, gas, brake, gas, etc. and is the hypermiler going to change that line of cars behind them? nope. unless he/she somehow lucked out and found 20 other hypermilers and no other drivers on said one lane, no passing road.

and one of the goals of hypermiling is to drive as slow as possible to use the least amount of gas. and if traffic is doing 65 in a 65 but the hypermiler is doing 55, yep, he/she is impeding traffic flow. same goes if traffic is doing 35 and the hypermiler is doing 30 and the rest catch up to the hypermiler on a road where passing is not allowed.

last time i checked hypermiling didn't only apply to highways or roads where passing is legal. the discussion is based on hypermilers doing this on ALL roads, not just one type.

So you're going to get in the last word here and then say "we" won't allow you to talk anymore on the subject. Weak.:thumbsdow

wrong. i'm saying the political discussion can be safely done in this thread as long as it is related to the topic. saying that any political discussion should be taken to the pit area is a little too broad because there are political implications that were brought up by xcel that do indeed related to this thread (and since the topic in question is the article regarding his hypermiling, well, i think it's safe to say that what he posts does pertain to the topic.)

Ugh....I hate you people. If you're going to drive below the limit, then get the hell out of the way and let me pass.

AMEN Joe, AMEN!!!:thmsup:

i'm not arguing that they're neccessariy holding up the passing lanes (though by driving excessively slower than the rest of traffic, even when they are not in the passing lane, the person driving slow (whether hypermiling is their goal or not) can still create a bit of a back up behind them to the typical driver.

i am arguing that they're holding up traffic on roads where there is no passing opportunity. roads where they can drive slow and force the rest of traffic behind them to drive slow as there is no opportunity to get out. yes, the other drivers can slow down and pace themselves behind the slow hypermiler. but in reality will 90% of the population do that? no. they'll continue to tailgate, brake, gas, brake, gas, etc. and is the hypermiler going to change that line of cars behind them? nope. unless he/she somehow lucked out and found 20 other hypermilers and no other drivers on said one lane, no passing road.

and one of the goals of hypermiling is to drive as slow as possible to use the least amount of gas. and if traffic is doing 65 in a 65 but the hypermiler is doing 55, yep, he/she is impeding traffic flow. same goes if traffic is doing 35 and the hypermiler is doing 30 and the rest catch up to the hypermiler on a road where passing is not allowed.

last time i checked hypermiling didn't only apply to highways or roads where passing is legal. the discussion is based on hypermilers doing this on ALL roads, not just one type.

You say "One of the goals of hypermiling to drive as slow as possible". You say hypermilers drive slow the speed limit in areas that cars can't pass. You somehow seem to know what speed 90% of the drivers drive and that they tailgate (I have no idea how you came up with that stat). I think you're distorting the picture.

On a two lane road I'll drive the speed limit. I could care less if you tailgate me. If you're on and off the gas and brake wasting gas because you're pissed and you want to brake the law I can't change that. When I'm driving the speed limit instead of over it now I'm doing it for me not for you. Sorry to disappoint you. One thing I've noticed since I've started slowing things down is I'm not the only one out there that's not speeding, and the speeders aren't driving all the same speed either. I use to justify speeding as I was going traffic speed. My assumptions in this respect were wrong though.






wrong. i'm saying the political discussion can be safely done in this thread as long as it is related to the topic. saying that any political discussion should be taken to the pit area is a little too broad because there are political implications that were brought up by xcel that do indeed related to this thread (and since the topic in question is the article regarding his hypermiling, well, i think it's safe to say that what he posts does pertain to the topic.)

I don't have a problem with politics being discussed in this thread and I agree it relates. That's why there's no reason to tell xcel what he can and can't bring back up, especially after you just brought it back up yourself.

Things are changing. Some if not most will not like it. But they are changing. Its nothing for me to pick up drivers that want to drive slower. It happens daily. Not everybody wants to drive 70 mph in a 65 mph posted speed limit. And I dont give a rump roast about what other folks think if Im driving the limit on a two lane or below the posted max limit to the right on a multilane road. We have min and max posted speed limits on a lot roads. I dont P&G much so Im a really steady Freddy at my lower speeds. If folks cant figure out Im running slower and time a pass on a multilane road or on a two lane when a passing zone comes up. They better go back to the walk and chew bubble gum class they missed.

You say "One of the goals of hypermiling to drive as slow as possible". You say hypermilers drive slow the speed limit in areas that cars can't pass. You somehow seem to know what speed 90% of the drivers drive and that they tailgate (I have no idea how you came up with that stat). I think you're distorting the picture.

On a two lane road I'll drive the speed limit. I could care less if you tailgate me. If you're on and off the gas and brake wasting gas because you're pissed and you want to brake the law I can't change that. When I'm driving the speed limit instead of over it now I'm doing it for me not for you. Sorry to disappoint you. One thing I've noticed since I've started slowing things down is I'm not the only one out there that's not speeding, and the speeders aren't driving all the same speed either. I use to justify speeding as I was going traffic speed. My assumptions in this respect were wrong though.

I don't have a problem with politics being discussed in this thread and I agree it relates. That's why there's no reason to tell xcel what he can and can't bring back up, especially after you just brought it back up yourself.

wait, where did i tell xcel he can't bring it up? i was referring to other comments about taking the political chat to the pit..... :scratch: i wasn't the one saying we can't talk about it at all here. i think either i didn't type something clearly enough or you're misinterpreting what i was referring to. so that should just be dropped. i do belileve we're actually saying the same thing. to put it simply, we're both saying political talk that is related to the hypermiling is fine within this thread, right?

in regards to hypermiling, i have read repeatedly in threads and articles on hypermiling about driving below the stated speed limit, especially when the stated speed limit isn't deemed to yield the best performance from the car. hey, i'm not a regular terror on the roads either (tend to stay within 5 miles of the speed limit) and only tailgate /cutoff those doing below it.

ok, i'll attach a disclaimer to every text and say, numbers/percentages contained within may or may not reflect exact data, they are merely from observation (only when this is the case). however, observing any given road on any given day will show a much greater number of people doing a (tailgting) versus doing b (keeping a nice safe distance that doesn't require suddent braking). how much greater? i'd estimate between 75 and 95% of people in this case, and i'd lean towards the higher end of that estimation. this is based on what i've seen on the roads in my lifetime. and this also varies by location, maybe i should point that out as well.

and as always, those employing a few techniques to save their gas consumption, great fine. and most are doing it now to save their own budget, not for any greater good, but it doesn't really matter anyway as to why anyone is doing anything.

anyway, off to see if i can perfect my hyperdriving techniques later... re-hyperdriving is driving actively, energetically, high-spirited, alert, aggressive, eventful, diligent, determined driving. :lmao: aka hyperdriving would be the opposite of hypermiling (which not sure who coined that phrase, but i'm beginning to think it doesn't really make sense after looking into the definition and synonyms of hyper........ :screwy: ) but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

wait, where did i tell xcel he can't bring it up? i was referring to other comments about taking the political chat to the pit.

In post # 70 in the last paragraph:

on political discussions-xcel makes it sound like he has 2 goals by hypermiling, save the world, and quit using gas so the troops can get out of iraq. sorry, but the govt has the final say there and even if we stop using gas altogether, i'm betting we'll still be hanging out in iraq pushing our viewpoints on a country that needs to determine their own. gas (oil actually) is the excuse in use right now to defend the reason we're there and xcel connected his hypermiling to the loss of lives to "save oil". anyway, i do believe some political discussion does pertain directly to the hypermiling topic at hand. but it was dropped, so please don't keep bringing it back up unless we want that portion of the discussion to continue.

You refer to xcel twice so I got the impression you we're replying to him. You state your political opinion, then you ask that the political discussion not be brought back up. Regardless of the logic behind why you're asking anyone not to bring politics up (due to others request to move it to the pit or whatever) I thought it was weak to say that right after you bring your own political viewpoints back up. So I apologize if you weren't telling xcel specifically to not bring it back up, but even if you we're indeed telling all of us forum members not to bring politics up it sure didn't seem like this was fair to do so right after you try to make your political point.

hey, i'm not a regular terror on the roads either (tend to stay within 5 miles of the speed limit) and only tailgate /cutoff those doing below it.

i hope that others don't take that sentence out of context.....

just caught my eye, actually.... :paranoid:

:lurk:

anysia - to answer your other question yep I agree politics is ok in this thread its hard not to have it come into play. As long as we don't resort to name calling like that one poster did against you I see nothing wrong.

So now instead of debating politics, we're debating the debating of politics. Funny how that happens. :naughty:

As far as hypermiling goes and people running the speed limit or slightly below, I tend to go by what the local constables do in an area as a rule of thumb for "flow of traffic". It's a telling sign when a hypermiler has a traffic backup that includes police vehicles, and once they pull off everyone goes the established "flow". Around here 30mph is really 40, 35 is really about 43, and 40 is about 48. If people are going the limit on these roads, even the "grey hairs" are gonna start flipping them the bird. And, based on my MPG readout on several vehicle computers, going the limit on anything less than 55 does nothing better than 5 over does. Once you get above 55, you start hitting the wind resistance situation where, depending on the vehicle, you start getting the negative impact of mpg vs cd.

There are ways to hypermile without impeding traffic flow, and if you don't agree, then your goal is more to prove a "personal point" than gain more mpg's....

andy (whose opinions here are NOT those of being a moderator - I'll let you know when I put that hat on...)

:lurk:

you're not the only one.... :nuts: :naughty:

Putting a car into neutral whilst it is in motion is called "freewheeling" and is considered a dangerous practice in the UK.. Doing so can get you banned from driving .. :paranoid:
.
That's not my personal opinion, that's the law here.
.

In post # 70 in the last paragraph:


You refer to xcel twice so I got the impression you we're replying to him. You state your political opinion, then you ask that the political discussion not be brought back up. Regardless of the logic behind why you're asking anyone not to bring politics up (due to others request to move it to the pit or whatever) I thought it was weak to say that right after you bring your own political viewpoints back up. So I apologize if you weren't telling xcel specifically to not bring it back up, but even if you we're indeed telling all of us forum members not to bring politics up it sure didn't seem like this was fair to do so right after you try to make your political point.

scabada,

sorry for any confusion. my referring to not beinging up the political discussion was referring to when a couple of other posters said it didn't belong here, but one had brought it back into the discussion after it had been dropped. it wasn't referring to xcel at all or to seriously not talking about the political implications as i do believe as long as they are related to hypermiling, they do belong here. i'm guessing as usual, i got a little too wordy and in internet "talk" the source of why i was saying that got lost/misinterpeted. i wasn't suggesting we couldn't talk about politics any more. i was questioning why it was being brought back up by someone when it had already been dropped in order to keep the conversation "sane". sorry for that confusion! please let me know if that leaves any lingering confusion!

Putting a car into neutral whilst it is in motion is called "freewheeling" and is considered a dangerous practice in the UK.. Doing so can get you banned from driving .. :paranoid:
.
That's not my personal opinion, that's the law here.
.

that's a neat law, but how do they prove you were in nuetral??? :dunno: it seems like a law that would be hard to enforce.

that's a neat law, but how do they prove you were in nuetral??? :dunno: it seems like a law that would be hard to enforce.

Maybe they can read data from the ECU at the time of the crash?

that's a neat law, but how do they prove you were in nuetral??? :dunno: it seems like a law that would be hard to enforce.

Funny story - when I was a kid, I used to go with my dad on sales calls (he sold bags for a living - the kind used for dog food, fertilizer, cement, etc). One of his trips was up into the middle of Vermont, and it took him near the Killington Ski area. Coming back towards NH, there was like an 8 mile stretch of road that was all downhill, and people used to actually shut their engines off and coast downhill. But they passed a "law" saying you had to leave the motor on and the car in gear. Why? Because those with the motor off lost power braking capabilities, and when not in gear, those vehicles with sticks lost any engine braking. They had a ton of accidents, and some of these events led to a lot of these runaway truck ramps you see occasionally today. How did the cops enforce it? They'd listen to the cars coming down the hill, and if your motor was off, you got pulled over (if you could stop)...

:nuts:

andy

Maybe they can read data from the ECU at the time of the crash?

only if there was a resulting crash... :nuts:

They had a ton of accidents, and some of these events led to a lot of these runaway truck ramps you see occasionally today. How did the cops enforce it? They'd listen to the cars coming down the hill, and if your motor was off, you got pulled over (if you could stop)...

i know of those runaway truck "sandpiles" and such around the pittsburgh area. for some reason we always thought there were funny when we were little and heading down the parkway west towards the ft pitt tunnel. :lmao:

listening to see if the car is on works when there's not much traffic... but when there's traffic how do they pick that car out from the crowd? i.e. if you're xcel and hypermiling in chicago traffic and turn off your engine and coast, how will they know one car is silent compared to the others around it? other problem would be determining someone is in nuetral and not in gear, but the car still running. these cops would have to have some pretty skilled ears to pick that out. :yes:

Hi Anysia:

___Boy, I do not know where to start with this one …
Your other problem is that you're creating traffic jams in areas where there weren't traffic jams to begin with when people in no-man's-land start trying to follow your guide lines.___Now I have some kind of problem? Funny how I am the one at 55 + all summer long and you are at a paltry 23 :( Engage brain and you will see the light. The speed limit is the speed limit and on my Warm-up P&G route, I have 10 + miles of frontage roads where I am lucky to see 3 cars over the entire distance. This keeps me off the 65 mph limited Interstate for those same amount of miles. After that, the speed limits are the speed limits. That also means construction zones and dropping her down to 45 vs. 55 or 65 as so few do. Why is it that the speed limits are 55 and 65 in IL. anyway? So those that want to speed can go 56 and 66 +? I am in the far right lane in a ridge ride. The other 2 to 4 lanes are wide open to whatever the other drivers want. I do not see that many running 65 + in the 55 mph zones in the far right lanes myself but your locale may be a lot different then Chicago proper?

You are saving 1% of the population a teeny tiny bit of gas, meanwhile causing the other 99% of the population to use alot more gas. road rage runs rampant. you can't deny that. and you can't stop that. you're doing a great job of adding fuel to that fire though. and road rage typically also results in lots of peeling tires, flooring it at lights, etc. all known to use even more gas.___I do not pretend to save you any gas but I will certainly teach others what they can achieve with varying degrees of technique application. Whether you choose to use what is offered is your choice but from your actions and posts here, it sounds like you are making very poor choices given the state we are in today. As far as the road rage etc., again, that is your problem. If you cannot stand slowing down to the speed limits in the far right lane, heaven help you if you were to consider what your $ is actually going for every time you mash the pedal to calm your nerves or whatever it does for you?

you save 5 gallons of gas
the 8 cars use 8 more gallons of gas total
the 11 suvs use 33 more gallons of gas total___Now there is a stat I would like to see backed up. Simple, you don’t have a clue nor do you have any idea as to how to back up that kind of complete non-sense.

no doubt you can push your car and get into questionable driving practices in order to save gas yourself. but you can't convert the masses. and in fact create somewhat of the exact opposite effect than what you intended.___The 60 + numbers come from using everything. The 50 – 52 mpg stuff comes from following the limits and driving much smarter then you currently know how or are capable of.

___WRT to the political implications, if everyone received 45 mpg, there would be no need to import a single drop. Do you really think we would be in Iraq, the Straight of Hormuz, messing with the likes of Chavez or even Nigeria if everybody received 45 mpg? Oh, and our Accords are perfectly capable of 45 mpg without throwing the book at them just in case you forgot … again.

only thing i'd note about windows open versus ac on-windows open creates more drag than windows closed. when you're coasting, you won't coast as far due to the increased drag. therefore you'll sacrifice mpg's there too. so turn the ac off, roll up the windows and coast till your heart is content (or stops beating from the excessive temps inside the vehicle, whichever comes first )

i believe we had some sort of "proof" the windows down/ac off veruss windows up/ac on didn't really affect things differently. by reasonable deduction, that would stand to mean that ac off/windows up may be the only way to truly gain in the mpg department.___You really need a ScanGauge to show you the facts vs. the non-sense you just posted :(

___Andy, when the wife is in the Accord, it is A/C on recirc once above 73 degrees F :( Fortunately, she does not drive in my Accord that often other then for short trips. Keep the wife and kids happy by hypermiling to the limits when they are not in the car so you do not end up sleeping with the dog :D Even my 14 year old wants to go faster then the limits when we are together but he will not be driving a vehicle on a routine basis until after college when he has a bit more years behind him.

But on the topic of hypermiling, i wont be rolling the windows down or leaving them up and turning off the ac to save a 1/2 a percent of my fuel useage. i've never seen a noteable difference in mpg's from winter to summer ever before anyway.___Funny how a TSX that is only worth 23 in your hands and using a little common sense will only net you 23.1 mpg’s? The average Accord driver can see south of 35 without doing anything but paying attention, 45 by following the limits, 55 by using most of the tools and 65 when throwing the book at her. Either your TSX is FUBAR, you are FUBAR or everybody else is FUBAR? I will let the readers of this thread decide who knows what hypermiling is and who doesn’t.

___Steve, thanks for caring about your own and especially for your mom’s capability. Those HCH-II’s are kick @$$ ride’s ;)

___Anysia, hypermiling achieves far more then just two goals. I do not really care what you believe it is for as we all have our personal ideas. I think the facts stated previously should be all the reason to consider it. It is your choice but those bullets aimed at our guys heads let alone the $’s it took to plan and execute taking the Towers down were not purchased because we (the world) import so many automobiles, aircraft, computers or pharmaceuticals from the Middle East.

And one of the goals of hypermiling is to drive as slow as possible to use the least amount of gas. and if traffic is doing 65 in a 65 but the hypermiler is doing 55, yep, he/she is impeding traffic flow. same goes if traffic is doing 35 and the hypermiler is doing 30 and the rest catch up to the hypermiler on a road where passing is not allowed.___And where did you come up with that? Create what you want of your own ideas but you will have a tough time distorting mine. As I have offered in the past and will continue to do so in the future, I give hypermiling clinics on my days off and the results are proof of practice. Whether one chooses to use all, some or none of the techniques, they will be a better and more fuel efficient driver from that day forward. Anytime you can make it out to Chicago, I will offer you the same. Maybe then some of the more poisonous posts you have uploaded here can be put to bed.

___Yesterdays drive home from work to the Walmart netted 63.0 mpg’s. Only 47.5 from the Walmart to home in heavy traffic however :(

Maybe they can read data from the ECU at the time of the crash?___Isn’t that how they caught the Governor of New Jersey doing 90 +? A crash in Neutral vs. tranny engaged will have the same impact energies although I am sure the hypermiler in a FAS will be traveling far slower then the guy doing 10 to 20 + or more. Thank god for our Accord’s airbags all-around if heaven forbid anyone were to ever be involved in one but at least a speed limit driver will have that much more time and distance to avoid the accident vs. the knuckle dragger at 20 + over who was out of control, slid into the median and did not come to a complete stop for over 300 yards if they were lucky. Most end up on their roofs and wrapped around a tree, sign or overpass pillars due to the poor Coefficient of Friction between tires on the road and those on a grassy knoll.

Back towards NH, there was like an 8 mile stretch of road that was all downhill, and people used to actually shut their engines off and coast downhill. But they passed a "law" saying you had to leave the motor on and the car in gear. Why? Because those with the motor off lost power braking capabilities___I do not know how many times I have to say this and especially coming from an Accord driver. You do not lose power brakes when the ICE goes off until after 3 or 4 applications. If you had to tap the brakes that many times in a FAS, you are coming in way to hot into whatever traffic condition you are currently facing and should have known better.

And when not in gear, those vehicles with sticks lost any engine braking.___That is the point.

They had a ton of accidents, and some of these events led to a lot of these runaway truck ramps you see occasionally today. How did the cops enforce it? They'd listen to the cars coming down the hill, and if your motor was off, you got pulled over (if you could stop)...___I do not believe you were directing this post towards hypermilers as they are in far more control of their vehicles then you may suspect. Runaways were for the OTR's that lost their brakes on long downhill as I have never heard of an 18-wheeler that was in a FAS ever?

___I do not pretend to tell anybody how to drive but I offer them all kinds of techniques in order to lessen their impact. Take the word “impact” to mean whatever you believe but there are impacts and consequences wrt our current consumption. Any lessening of its use is a huge positive from my point of view and I can only hope it will be from yours as well.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/11.png (http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?page=garage&displayunits=MPG(US)&viewcar=11)http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/Terrapass_Sig.jpg

Things are changing. Some if not most will not like it. But they are changing. Its nothing for me to pick up drivers that want to drive slower. It happens daily. Not everybody wants to drive 70 mph in a 65 mph posted speed limit. And I dont give a rump roast about what other folks think if Im driving the limit on a two lane or below the posted max limit to the right on a multilane road. We have min and max posted speed limits on a lot roads. I dont P&G much so Im a really steady Freddy at my lower speeds. If folks cant figure out Im running slower and time a pass on a multilane road or on a two lane when a passing zone comes up. They better go back to the walk and chew bubble gum class they missed.

I don't have a problem with anyone going the speed limit on a two lane road. If you drive slower then the limit, that's where we have a problem.

And honestly, if you drive below the limit on a two lane road, the only thing you're managing to prove is how cheap and inconsiderate you are. OOOOHH Boy! You saved a whole 10 cents on your trip because you did 35 in a 45. Unbelievably lame...

rolling on the floor laughing my butt off so hard i almost peed my pants!!!!!!!!!!!!!


chicago drivers doing the *gulp* speed limit????????????? uh, where????? (NOTE~in traffic snarled areas, anyone is lucky to be doing more than 5 mph, but outside of those areas, where are chicago drivers doing the speed limit in mass numbers??? chicago is by far the WORST for offending all sorts of traffic laws, very much so including speeding. even NYC seems to fare far better in this regard! the i90/94 corridor is wonderful for motorcycles weaving through stopped/nearly stoped traffic, etc. i've been through that dreaded i90/94 corridor more times than i care to think about and i've seen some of the worst driving in masses that i've ever seen in my life.

i'm also not sure what the 55+ and paltry 23 are referring to??? very confused by this.1

fine, on roads where there is the ability to pass, do whatever you please in the right hand lane and i hope you get pulled over if you are going below the speed limit. i've tried to clear this up numerous times that the main conern are those roads where passing is not an option for those who wish to do so, especially when driving below the speed limit. on the highway it's a huge nuisance because often times the one stuck directly behind you is stuck. sure it's the result of rude drivers, but again, you can't change that and neither can i and i hate being that one stuck in the immediate path of the slowpoke.


try quoting my entire post-i said those were not factual stats, merely proving a poitn providing numbers so more people could grasp the idea. i never claimed they were based on specific real life facts. but i bet in alot of cases you'd be surprised how much the cars behind you waste in gas while dealing with the road rage that ensues when stuck behind a slow driver. but again, those numbers were not factual and i stated that.

you yourself have proved that you are doing unsmart driving techniques in order to acheive 50+mpg in alot of vehicles. overinflating tires is very dangerous yet it's one fo the things you subscribe to as a rule of thumb to save mpg's......

someone else did post the info on the ac versus windows down argument, so i won't even bother repeating it.

in case you never rread it, i regularl pulled off well over 30 in the accord without doing ANY hypermiling techniques. in fact i was blowing most of those out of the window on the majority of occassions. and some of my best mpg's were achieved while driving through chicago stop and go traffic, with plenty of revving, stopping, etc. 37 or 38mpgs to be exact. with properly inflated tires to boot.

i could keep going, but we've all seen xcel in action in days gone by and he'll prove as many points without facts as i can and the discussion will never end. so, xcel, go ahead, quote away and provide more "facts" but i'll keep driving safe and sane and get whatever mpg's it yields. and maybe i'lll start up some anti-hypermiling clinics and show people why alot of the techniques are not safe. (ala coasting with engine off, overinflating tires, making drivers loopy with excessive heat, etc).

I don't have a problem with anyone going the speed limit on a two lane road. If you drive slower then the limit, that's where we have a problem.

And honestly, if you drive below the limit on a two lane road, the only thing you're managing to prove is how cheap and inconsiderate you are. OOOOHH Boy! You saved a whole 10 cents on your trip because you did 35 in a 45. Unbelievably lame...

:thmsup:

___I do not know how many times I have to say this and especially coming from an Accord driver. You do not lose power brakes when the ICE goes off until after 3 or 4 applications. If you had to tap the brakes that many times in a FAS, you are coming in way to hot into whatever traffic condition you are currently facing and should have known better.


See, this is the problem. In rural areas, with very long downgrades, you hit the brakes many times in order to control speed, especially when "freewheeling". After those 3-4 times, you lose braking capability in a dramatic fashion, especially if you come up on someone going slower and the passing lane is clogged. I've been driving cars for 34 years -with and without power brakes - and know how long the vacuum assist hangs in there when you lose power in a car. Back in the days of carbs and when cars used to stall out more often, this was a common issue - big time.


___I do not believe you were directing this post towards hypermilers as they are in far more control of their vehicles then you may suspect. Runaways were for the OTR's that lost their brakes on long downhill as I have never heard of an 18-wheeler that was in a FAS ever?

___I do not pretend to tell anybody how to drive but I offer them all kinds of techniques in order to lessen their impact. Take the word “impact” to mean whatever you believe but there are impacts and consequences wrt our current consumption. Any lessening of its use is a huge positive from my point of view and I can only hope it will be from yours as well.

In order to hypermile in all situations correctly, the driver must have an excellent knowledge of the road rules and regulations, as well as a keen skill set in order to handle the situations that arise while doing so. I'd wager a guess that of the people that hypermile regularly, maybe 10% have both of these skill sets enough to really do it safely. Here in NH, you'd be amazed at how badly the vast majority of people drive in the winter, and how many accidents waiting to happen there are. I personally believe that every single driver should attend a "skid school" (local name for driving skills taught up here) in order to REALLY know how to drive, especially in substandard or quick-thinking conditions. I took the course years ago, and it's saved my butt many times. Personally, if you're helping teach people to hypermile, then this level of driving skills should be a part of the process - and this is above and beyond the techniques taught for the gradual nature of the driving methodology of hypermiling....

andy

fine, on roads where there is the ability to pass, do whatever you please in the right hand lane and i hope you get pulled over if you are going below the speed limit. i've tried to clear this up numerous times that the main conern are those roads where passing is not an option for those who wish to do so, especially when driving below the speed limit. on the highway it's a huge nuisance because often times the one stuck directly behind you is stuck. sure it's the result of rude drivers, but again, you can't change that and neither can i and i hate being that one stuck in the immediate path of the slowpoke.



Ok, that statement doesn't make sense to me. Why should someone be pulled over for doing under the speed limit? I'm sure you're aware of the definition of "limit", so I still fail to understand why you make it sound like its wrong to drive at or below the speed limit. In areas where there is a minimum speed here, it is posted.

And I don't see any reason to blame hypermilers for your problems with being stuck behind a slowpoke, its not their problem and they should not be blamed for it by following the laws of driving.

i do believe there is a law in atleast some states (if not most) about obstructing traffic/impeding the flow of traffic. you can most definitely be pulled over for doing more than 5 below the posted speed limit. if you are using your hazard lights, i believe you can get away with it to a degree though.

DISCLAIMER-the terms and exact tolerable speeds may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

i do believe there is a law in atleast some states (if not most) about obstructing traffic/impeding the flow of traffic. you can most definitely be pulled over for doing more than 5 below the posted speed limit. if you are using your hazard lights, i believe you can get away with it to a degree though.

I think there is one here as one of the "slow" people that carries parts around here got pulled over for driving too slow in an area without a posted minnimum.... can't remember if he got ticketed though.

Ok, that statement doesn't make sense to me. Why should someone be pulled over for doing under the speed limit? I'm sure you're aware of the definition of "limit", so I still fail to understand why you make it sound like its wrong to drive at or below the speed limit. In areas where there is a minimum speed here, it is posted.

And I don't see any reason to blame hypermilers for your problems with being stuck behind a slowpoke, its not their problem and they should not be blamed for it by following the laws of driving.

So, the next time a cop is behind you, drop down to 10 or 15 below the speed limit and see what happens...Let us know how it turns out...

Look up "Basic Speed Law"

And I don't see any reason to blame hypermilers for your problems with being stuck behind a slowpoke, its not their problem and they should not be blamed for it by following the laws of driving.

why not blame them for not being able to drive the speed limit? most people have places to go, and without breaking the law (speed limits) they want to get where they are going efficiently. thus, hypermilers driving below the speed limit slowing the rest of us down, are to blame. how are they not?

why not blame them for not being able to drive the speed limit? most people have places to go, and without breaking the law (speed limits) they want to get where they are going efficiently. thus, hypermilers driving below the speed limit slowing the rest of us down, are to blame. how are they not?

Well, because once again it's regarded as a speed limit. I agree that 15 below is excessive, but when I see someone driving like that, I don't automatically assume its a hypermiler, which it sounds like anysia is doing. IMO it sounds like shes pigeonholing hypermilers for all her grief with driving problems and road rage. When I see an instance of someone going excessively under the limit its normally because of a safety issue or some moron simply not paying attention. But getting behind a moron on the road happens every day, so why let it get your blood pressure up?

But back to what I was saying, to me, its a limit not a recommendation. If you get stuck behind someone deciding to legally drive 5 mph below the speed limit either deal with it or pass them, legally or illegally, its your choice.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/112_0705_james_woolsey_interview/

James Woolsey, the former head of the CIA drive a Toyota Prius with the bumper sticker “'Bin Laden hates this car”.

Excerpt from article:

“By rights, Woolsey ought to drive a big, bad Hummer. Instead, he drives a Prius, and he says that if you live in a country dependent on imported oil, it's your patriotic duty to do the same.”

The goal of starting this post was NOT to bash Hypermilers. I know everyone has an opinion, but the fact of the matter is if we used less foreign oil, it would reduce the amount of funding that recognized terrorist groups received. Less fuel consumption in the US would allow for more spending on US products that would help to invigorate our economy at home. I'm not going any further with my political beliefs.

IMO it sounds like shes pigeonholing hypermilers for all her grief with driving problems and road rage.

Dude, this was your first post in the thread:

Driving at or below the speed limit is the thing that gives me the best mpg out of all the techniques I've tried so far I think.

You say it yourself, a technique of hypermiling is driving under the speed limit. I have every reason to believe that if someone is driving under the speed limit, and they're not 90 years old, they're trying to hypermile, regardless if they know they are or not. Soooo, yea, you're getting pigeonholed....

You say it yourself, a technique of hypermiling is driving under the speed limit. I have every reason to believe that if someone is driving under the speed limit, and they're not 90 years old, they're trying to hypermile, regardless if they know they are or not. Soooo, yea, you're getting pigeonholed....

So you're basing all your beliefs about every driver out there on something I said I do? If you want to base all your assumptions about every driver out there on what I do then assume that if you're on the highway and you get behind someone in the right lane doing 55-60 in a posted 60mph zone, youre behind a hypermiler. If you get behind someone on a local road doing between 30-45 in a posted 35mph zone, assume you're behind a hypermiler. But I think you wouldn't be right all the time with that assumption and in the end you'll just be left irritated for something you really have no control over despite all your ranting on a forum.

listening to see if the car is on works when there's not much traffic... but when there's traffic how do they pick that car out from the crowd? i.e. if you're xcel and hypermiling in chicago traffic and turn off your engine and coast, how will they know one car is silent compared to the others around it? other problem would be determining someone is in nuetral and not in gear, but the car still running. these cops would have to have some pretty skilled ears to pick that out. :yes:
Hey, I didnt' say I had an answer to the problem - just what the VT state cops used to do. :banana: Similar to what the PA state cops did on the stretch of I90 that crosses PA near Erie, listening to cars with studded snow tires crossing that little stretch of road (back when PA was the only state in the belt that didn't allow them). My dad would try to go thru there only in the middle of the night - funny how salesmen have these weird habits. :lmao: :biggrin:

andy

Hi Andy:

___In the downhill conditions you described, you should be riding fuel cut, not running a FAS. Please learn more about hypermiling and what your automobile is doing during the various modes you may consider using before tossing this non-sense about brakes and not paying attention let alone not being able to drive … You pull a FAS on a downhill where you are going to lose control from to high a speed is not only your fault, it was because you have no idea as to what you were doing. Since you may be speaking from one who has never probably seen south of 40 in your own Accord, I would highly recommend like I do everyone else, read, learn, practice on the back country roads and only place the advanced techniques into practice once they have become second nature. This is pretty simple stuff but if you decide it is not for you, that is fine.

___As for speeds, I already know trying a hard avoidance maneuver on a public roadway in an Accord at 70 + by anybody is asking for serious and possibly deadly trouble. Doing the same at 55 and below is a lot safer yet the prevailing attitude by some here is drive at 70 + for some reason??? Most here cannot even stand up in the very basic hurricane force winds but they ask their Accord’s to drive through those velocities every time they get behind the wheel.

___Do you really want to talk safety with a hypermiler? Add perception and reaction time to the actual braking distances on a public roadway, not a clean test course with cones telling you when to slam on the binders on the test track. The vastly increased braking distances should come as no surprise to anyone. Did you want to know about what is in the rear view as much as you do to the sides and front? Talk to a hypermiler and he or she will tell you ;)

___To all, if you want to do 10 + over, please do not perform that activity in the far right lanes. Consider those speeds in your middle and/or far left lanes. It will make my drive at the limits and hopefully yours at 10 + over much easier as well.

___Anysia, coming from someone who achieves daily what you can only dream of vs. someone that appears to be guessing at half of what this thread is about, you know where to find the information. I cannot and will not tell you what to do but I would hope before spewing any more of the trash you have here that you would be reading, learning and practicing in order to achieve at least some semblance of fuel efficiency. This 23 mpg stuff in a TSX no matter what your drive is like tells me a ton about your current capabilities and mindset. I hope for all our sakes you come around to a more citizen friendly practice(s) in the near future for all our sakes.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/11.png (http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?page=garage&displayunits=MPG(US)&viewcar=11)http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/Terrapass_Sig.jpg

___Anysia, coming from someone who achieves daily what you can only dream of vs. someone that appears to be guessing at half of what this thread is about, you know where to find the information. I cannot and will not tell you what to do but I would hope before spewing any more of the trash you have here that you would be reading, learning and practicing in order to achieve at least some semblance of fuel efficiency. This 23 mpg stuff in a TSX no matter what your drive is like tells me a ton about your current capabilities and mindset. I hope for all our sakes you come around to a more citizen friendly practice(s) in the near future for all our sakes.

sorry, we actually enjoy driving. we don't drive to show off or create bragging rights about our mpg. we know we use more fuel than some. and we don't mind because WE LIKE DRIVING. we go driving for no good reason sometimes. we like to step on the gas when conditions are appropriate. more citizenly friendly? give me a break. :lmao:

and oh yeah. it's people like you and your silly need to show of the FE you can produce that makes me drive in a such a way to reduce my FE just to counteract your excessive silliness with my own.

With the amount of effort and concentration that is put into saving a few gallons of gasoline, a given person could work a couple hours of overtime, or at a part time job and simply BUY the damned gasoline!

It reminds of people around here with outdoor wood burning furnaces that think they are saving on heating cost.

Sure, you didn't buy fuel with money, so therefore you technically saved money, but you busted your ass collecting wood, splitting it, stacking it, feeding the fire etc etc etc Where is the savings?

this may like an excruiciantingly hard point for the pro-hypermilers to see, but alot of what you are stating is based on as much fact as what i'm stating.

yes, there is a minimum speed even when not posted in some states. some states choose to post the minimum speed, others only post a "limit". the limit is the recommended driving speed in these areas, unless conditions dictate otherwise. and personally, i'd lose to see you argue that a sunny, dry day dictates dropping speeds below the limit. it should be treated the same as doing above the speed limit and in some states it is treated as such and you can indeed be ticketed for it.

xcel, please quit referring to my opinions as "trash". i have voiced my opinions taking into account your OPINIONS. both are OPINIONS. i can argue that you can't prove that a line of driver's behind you is NOT wasting gas due to your driving habits just as easily as i can't prove that they ARE wasting gas. it's all opinion. i'll talk my "trash", you talk your "trash". it's all on the same level and not fair to pit one side as being trash or as it's even been implied that a side not employing hypermiling is supporting terorists. wherever in the world did you get your facts from to prove that just by not taking gas savings to an extreme that i'm supporting terrorists??????? :dunno: ps~by deduction~ you causing that line of cars behind you to waste gas (my "trash" talk, which has as much substantiated basis as your side) makes you a supporter of terrorism. you're egging others on to support terrorism and trying to come away with clean hands, no guilt, by adding the "fuel to the fire" passively. every pun in the book intended there. :banana:

yes, there is a minimum speed even when not posted in some states. some states choose to post the minimum speed, others only post a "limit". the limit is the recommended driving speed in these areas, unless conditions dictate otherwise.


I guess its a recommendation in your area. Here its considered a limit to local law and it seems like where Stiller is its considered the same thing, given the fact he was ticketed for doing 5 over.

Hi Steve:

___And where does it say Hypermilers do not enjoy driving? I have something to look forward to on every drive. Do you ;)

___Foreign Wide, it isn’t much work. Like I said above, this stuff is not only easy but when it becomes second nature, it is actually quite enjoyable.

___Anysia, my opinion? I think most hypermilers results qualify as more then just an opinion vs. your discussion of the same? The results speak for themselves. What you receive is up to you and unfortunately your results should tell everyone all they need to know.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/11.png (http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?page=garage&displayunits=MPG(US)&viewcar=11)http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/Terrapass_Sig.jpg

So, to Xcel and others, I'm backing out of the conversation here, because I would jeopardize my position as a moderator on this forum and would violate my own rules. As is true on my town forum, people are steadfast in their individual beliefs and their "correctness" when others try to question them about it. Nobody ever backs down, so in order to keep myself from crossing the line, I stop.

Now, with a moderators hat on, for those who wish to continue here, please be careful about how you discuss your position or politics with others, as this thread may get near closure if the line gets closer.

andy

oh, and ooops, forgot to mention that the vast majority (and this can be seen by talking to any circle of people, relatives, friends, coworkers, etc) have one thing on their minds by trying to increase their mpg's-saving their own pocketbook. and most have absolutely no cluea how to safely use any hypermiling techniques. by throwing the information out there that you use to go to extreme lengths without requiring those using it to have ON THE ROAD TRAINING is completely irresponsible. you've said it yourself, hypermilers need to know how to drive correctly, but by throwing the information out there on forums and news stories etc without stating that anyone wishing to engage in these practices should seek professional training is very unwise.

also, i DO look in my rearview mirror and i am overly cautious of what is going on around me. anyone ever wonder why i have so many stories about driving? its because i'm not oblivious to what is going on around me. i see that person 4 or 5 cars ahead weaving through traffic. i see that person a car or two or three behind driving erratically. i see the person getting closer to me on the road and anticipate what they're going ot do so that i can react effectively if at all possible.

I guess its a recommendation in your area. Here its considered a limit to local law and it seems like where Stiller is its considered the same thing, given the fact he was ticketed for doing 5 over.

where stiller is is where i'm from and you can indeed be ticketed for going under the speed limit. and i know people who have been ticketed for that. :yes:

___And where does it say Hypermilers do not enjoy driving? I have something to look forward to on every drive. Do you


how can you possibly enjoy driving excessively slow with rock hard tires from excess pressure? again, other than being high on yourself for your mpg.....

I already stated I enjoy driving. look forward to sitting in my seats and stepping on the gas. just knowing I'm getting 19.7 mpg in my V6 makes me feel good, because I choose to get it. :thmsup:

___Anysia, my opinion? I think most hypermilers results qualify as more then just an opinion vs. your discussion of the same? The results speak for themselves. What you receive is up to you and unfortunately your results should tell everyone all they need to know.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/11.png (http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?page=garage&displayunits=MPG(US)&viewcar=11)http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/Terrapass_Sig.jpg


as one of those stuck behind slow drivers and coasters (or so it seems like they're coasting), albeit i cant prove that they're definitely a hypermiler or someone just driving slow and stopping slow, etc, but i can atest that the fuel consumption does indeed increase in the cars in the wake of that person. so, my opinions are as much fact as yours are. you have your car, your experience being at the front of the pack to report. i have my experience in my car behind someone driving like you to report. both are facts. neither can atest definitively to what other cars are experiencing or not experiencing (though i would say that person immediately behind me who is tailing me even closer and almost certainly has to be braking is experiencing the same as me or worse.) therefore, it's fact just as much as your experience is fact.

(ps~i thoroughly enjoyed your pages upon pages of discussion on edmunds forum arguing with someone who called a dealership about how many tsx's they ahd in their fleet, yet you choose to keep pointing to what the website for same said dealership had, i believe it was libertyville acura. and well, we all know that the listings online for dealerships are in most cases not a real time inventory and are not updated on a frequent enough basis to be able to insist that it's even remotely acurate. so, :lmao: i get some extreme enjoyment out of reading your ramblings. that argument over inventory had me laughing out loud!)

how can you possibly enjoy driving excessively slow with rock hard tires from excess pressure? again, other than being high on yourself for your mpg.....



:lmao: :puke: i just pictured some sticky nasty mess in someone's car due to that comment. :puke: :naughty:

So, the next time a cop is behind you, drop down to 10 or 15 below the speed limit and see what happens...Let us know how it turns out...

Look up "Basic Speed Law"

oooh, can we request video of this? i want to see some hypermilers do this one.

oh, and while we're at it, since stopping and having to start from a stop are evili in hypermiling world, can i get a video of someone explaining to the cop why they rolled right through that stop sign??? :lmao: (ok, disclaimer time~i am in no way asserting that all hypermilers run stop signhs. merely that some employing techniques learned on the internet or in some news story may try to do this because, after all, it means you didn't have to stop and start which are no-no's if you can avoid it. i know deep down that xcel of course most definitely stops completely at all stop signs, no doubt that it's a full complete stop as i'm guessing he also turns off the engine, and there is no way he'd break any laws at all. all hail xcel. :notworthy)

I currently enjoy driving much more now that I have in years so there's another assumption I saw thrown out there earlier I had to laugh at.

This discussionwas was a great distraction from work yesterday. :blah: I have nothing against those of you who've attacked the hypermilers by saying they hold up traffic. If any of you are ever in the Portland area it would be great if you could come take a drive with me and see if I'm really obstructing the flow of traffic or not. My only hesitation in offering this is I don't consider myself an expert 'hypermiler' so I'm probably not the best example. I've only been doing this for a few months but I have seen a definate improvement in how much I'm spending on gas.

I don't know if people will have an open mind to take me (or others) up on such an offer or if they just want to believe what they want to believe, but I figured its worth a shot. Offers on the table.

one request, being in the car of the hypermiler is a different experience than being in the car behind it with the driver not expecting to hypermile. so, we'd need someone on the car with a hypermiler along with someone in the cars of the unsuspecting drivers surrounding the hyper miler and see who reacts how.

but the key is, noone can be aware of the passenger either or they might suspect that something is up. :lmao: not sure how to do that. hidden cameras?? otherwise you're going to get a hypermiler putting on a show and other drivers most likely going to one extreme or the other (ie the person who wants to look nice may react differently than they would if they were by themselves. and the person wanting to show how aggravating it can be may very well overreact to prove the point.) in other words, everyone would likely pick an extreme.

that said, there is no doubt in my mind that i could leave work tonight and employ hypermiling techniques and far better my mpg if i so choose. i choose to drive for my own enjoyment too though and my enjoyment is impeded by trying to max out my mpg. i did get enjoyment on one road trip to wi one time and it was because i couldn't go any faster to beat my last time to get from point a to point b. so, new challenge. it lasted one whopping trip. bettered my mpg's by .5 mpg.... worth it? for that one trip, sure, it kept me amused. overall? nah. otherwise i'd still be doing it.

sorry, we actually enjoy driving. we don't drive to show off or create bragging rights about our mpg. we know we use more fuel than some. and we don't mind because WE LIKE DRIVING. we go driving for no good reason sometimes. we like to step on the gas when conditions are appropriate. more citizenly friendly? give me a break. :lmao:


Here's why I enjoy driving now that I'm trying to improve fuel economy more than I use to. I'm leaving fifteen minutes earlier each morning. This is part of my routine now instead of leaving with the bare minimum ammount of time I needed for my commute. I'm less stressed because I'm in less of a rush. Its also fun to see some of the cars that flew by me at the following stoplight, but for the most part I'm just a bit more relaxed since I'm in less of a rush.


and oh yeah. it's people like you and your silly need to show of the FE you can produce that makes me drive in a such a way to reduce my FE just to counteract your excessive silliness with my own.

I have my first child on the way due early January. I'm trying my best to cut unnecessary expenses to save for our child. My wife and I would like to be able to have one of us stay home and I'd also like to be able to save for their education and continue putting money into our 401k and IRA's. The suggestions from the hypermilers have helped save me money. For me, this is rewarding. Yes, a few years ago I would have probably laughed at some of the things I'm currently trying, so please don't think I look down on you for not trying to save gas.

So what is the official word from the moderatiors -- are we allowed to talk about politics in this thread if it relates to oil consumption?

The price of gas should go up again, then we'll hear anysia complaining about the gas cartel blah blah blah.

I have no problem with feeling good stepping on the pedal, peeling tires and sinking your MPG. Hey, I get a rush sometimes doing that.

But I do have a problem when you go crying at the pump afterwards and then cry to the Government to regulate prices.

Drive like a maniac, I don't care. Drive 100+ miles/hour, but smile when it costs $50 to fill up your tank.

Everyone should be proud of the things they do.

and i know people who have been ticketed for that. :yes:

Thats cool. :thmsup: I still have yet to meet someone that was ticketed for doing 5 under or received one myself. So I think until that happens I'd rather stick to the limit or right below it in certain areas.

I can tell you I used to be one that thought I would only enjoy driving if I was blowing past people on the highway and beating people off the line at a stoplight. That was before gas prices skyrocketed and I was stupid and figured speeding tickets didn't matter. Now by pressing that little cruise button, I try to save myself some dough in gas prices, no court fees, and my stress level. I used to have horrible road rage until I figured it wasn't affecting anything but myself. If driving fast is what you like, then by all means, have at it, and feel free to pass me when you think I'm cruising along or accelerating too slowly.

I hear tall tales of people being ticketed for driving too slow, yet I drive slow all of the time with cops behind me and they just go around.

At one time I was even driving with expired tags and it's only when I was speeding that they caught up with me. :dunno:

I guess some people like to subsidize local Government with speeding fines. Thanks also for paying my salary with increased insurance rates.

Keep up the good work (and the speed). I want to make sure the company makes money so I can justify another raise.

But I'll keep my speed down. I pay enough in taxes already. Maybe the more of you that pay speeding fines, the less my cost of funding the Government will be.

So what is the official word from the moderatiors -- are we allowed to talk about politics in this thread if it relates to oil consumption?

If it goes too much beyond the existing discussion, then bring it to the Pit... I'd prefer it to go there anyway...

andy

I'll just refrain from comment it would be all to easy to open up many cans of worms.

as one of those stuck behind slow drivers and coasters (or so it seems like they're coasting), albeit i cant prove that they're definitely a hypermiler or someone just driving slow and stopping slow, etc, but i can atest that the fuel consumption does indeed increase in the cars in the wake of that person.

I'm confused if you don't think there are benefits for our nation and our world to consume less oil why are you so fired up with these claims you are making that hypermilers are causing 99% of the population to burn way more fuel? Why do you post you're dang proud of your 23mpg if you're so concerned about these people the hypermilers are supposdely causing to burn more fuel? I'm not convinced by your statistics you're claiming, but I'm more confused why you seem to care so much considering what you post.

I have my first child on the way due early January. I'm trying my best to cut unnecessary expenses to save for our child. My wife and I would like to be able to have one of us stay home and I'd also like to be able to save for their education and continue putting money into our 401k and IRA's. The suggestions from the hypermilers have helped save me money. For me, this is rewarding. Yes, a few years ago I would have probably laughed at some of the things I'm currently trying, so please don't think I look down on you for not trying to save gas.
congrats on the kid on the way. we had our first just over 9 months ago. it'll keep things interesting for you.

anyways... how much are you truely saving on a monthly basis. actually calculated by price of gas and your change in mpg..... what is the real result for you? I find it very hard to believe it will have any real significant effect on the goals you have, which are great goals. we don't have the means to have either of us not work but a change of even reducing our fuel expense to half would not accomplish anything truely beneficial.

Here's why I enjoy driving now that I'm trying to improve fuel economy more than I use to. I'm leaving fifteen minutes earlier each morning. This is part of my routine now instead of leaving with the bare minimum ammount of time I needed for my commute. I'm less stressed because I'm in less of a rush. Its also fun to see some of the cars that flew by me at the following stoplight, but for the most part I'm just a bit more relaxed since I'm in less of a rush.

if you have the ability and willingness to add that time to your commute, that's fine. we don't. I get our daughter to day care as early as she can arrive there, get anysia to work (we carpool), and I get to work the minute I'm supposed to be there. due to day care times, we can't take more time as you can. don't read me wrong, I'm no "stop light racer", I just don't dilly dally around and don't like getting stuck behind slow people.

If it goes too much beyond the existing discussion, then bring it to the Pit... I'd prefer it to go there anyway...

andy
why would it move to the pit? the whole discussion is the result of the thread as it started. it's still all based around hypermilers, nothing more that I see. :dunno:
I commend you though as the only mod (I think, as I didn't read the start of a thread) to actually participate in something other than happy happy love love threads. :thmsup:

I commend you though as the only mod (I think, as I didn't read the start of a thread) to actually participate in something other than happy happy love love threads. :thmsup:

just cause i have not participated in this thread as of yet, does not mean that i have not been watching it.

to be blunt here: i have hardly been online since saturday. sunday went to cousin's house (death in family). monday went to funeral and to take care of speeding ticket (request trial), and yesterday was spent taking mother to hospital, working on pool, and running errands.

just my 2 cents...

why would it move to the pit? the whole discussion is the result of the thread as it started. it's still all based around hypermilers, nothing more that I see. :dunno:
I commend you though as the only mod (I think, as I didn't read the start of a thread) to actually participate in something other than happy happy love love threads. :thmsup:
I just saw a rerun of Ren and Stimpy just the other day - so that song and the Log song are stuck in my head... :nuts:

Keeping a high level conversation about politics of oil, etc, is OK, but if folks want to get into the anti-war/pro-war debate, etc, then it's that part I'd like to see started anew down in the Pit - that's all. There's certainly room for some discussion as it relates to oil here, but I'm more interested in the hypermiling part of the discussion - the religion around that is completely shocking and amazing to me. Funny to watch some folks "try" to hypermile around here - this woman just about bought the farm behind a big rig once he found out she was back there (she peeked, and it was all over)..

Play on....

andy

WOW, you guys are really getting wound up on this one!!!

Bottom line, until OEM's make cars that are auto navigated:

-there's always going to be someone in front of you holding you up... even if every h-miller changed their ways.

-there's always going to be someone that drives in a fashion you feel is irresponsible

Do what's best for you without compromising the safety of those around you and move on... SHEESH!!!

driving for fun doesn't equal speeding either. i take off at lights when i know the coast is clear because i find that fun. when i reach the speed limit, it ends there. i enjoy getting to that point as fast as i can, not dillydallying on my way. it's not saying once i'm to the speed limit that i'm reguarly offending it any more than it is saying that a hypermiler is always doing the speed limit and below.

i also drive below the speed limit when conditions are bad (blinding rain, snow/ice, etc). those are the times the law dictates driving below it ala adjusting your driving as neccessary for conditions.

hey, and we aren't ones to cry at the pump. in fact i find amusement in those who do. but if you aren't a hardcord excessive hypermiler like xcel (which everything in MODERATION is key.... so in other words, still not going to believe in his excessive ways of pushing limits of things that are also pretty darn risky). if you are not a hardcore hypermiler and you've only adjusted your gas mileage by a mile or two per gallon, your saving as much as the person using regular octane instead of premium. and if it changes your budget that significantly, i'm guessing you probably can't really afford to have the car you are driving either. i've never held much stock in the argument of people who say, oh yeah, i can't afford THAT car because it requires premium fuel. well, if that's killing your budget, you probably need to really rethink your entire budget and quite possibly nix purchasing a new car altogether.

in regards to caring about hypermilers causing others to burn more fuel versus me saying i'm dang proud of my 23mpg's---i'm stating that because i am very confused as to why a hypermiler would say they want to spare oil consumption/gas consumption/save the troops/etc, but cause others to burn more fuel who are stuck in their trail? they may be saving gas and "saving the world" as far as their concerned, but via xcel's own determination that not getting atleast 45mpg's is aiding and abetting terrorists, it translates into he, in a passive manner, is doing exactly the same. however, he is keeping his conscience clear as far as he is concerned via saying he's doing what he should be doing. but he is completely disregarding what he's causing behind him (except to be able to tell you what shirt the guy in the car behind him is wearing). whereas if he drives in moderation and doesn't take the hypermiling to extremes and instead drives to fit in with the pack, i'm hazarding a guess that things would even out. of course that;s assuming we are dealing with a perfect world where everyone is content to drive the speed limit, not 1 mph above, not 1mph below (and all cars speedometeres are calbirated to match exactly and tires are the correct sizes etc) and maintain a safe distance, etc. which in theory will never happen. but anyway, point being, if someone is so concerned about saving oil/gas/troops/etc, why would they do some thing that causes others to consume more oil and gas and if you ask xcel, effectively kill more us troops? :dunno:

maybe in the future, they'll instal some nice "track" for cars and we'll all be controlled by some little guy watching over each road and we will no longer operate the cars we're in and therefore we will all drive exactly the same, stop exactly the same, drive the same speed, etc. but that's a pipe dream for those who want it.

I'm absolutely annoyed at hypermilers in the left lane doing 20 in a 35 zone downtown. Not only are they annoying they're idiots; explanation: the route I chose (carefully I might add) is synchronized the whole 5 miles if you accelerate normally and do the speed limit. If there's a moron in my way that means instead of coasting easily through almost all the intersections I end up stopping at more than half of them. STUPID STUPID STUPID!!! If you must do it DO IT IN THE RIGHT LANE! Rant over.

Otherwise want to save money and help the environment here's a few easy tips:

1. If you can walk and it's not too hot, too cold, too cumbersome, or to far. Do so.
2. You have errands? How about consolidating them into one trip if possible, and plan ahead in regards to route and traffic.
3. If possible avoid rush hour, leave early for work (what I do) you'll get more done, leave earlier from work, and have more time to do other things.
4. Proper tire pressures.
5. Proper maintenance.

i was looking for something and found peniole's very simplified post. thanks! :thmsup:

i'm going back and reading some of the old threads of xcel's. i'm on the first one and already things don't add up.

he's cramming fuel in past the full mark. first off, that extra weight is affecting his mpg's ever so slightly, just like he stated he is concerned with ('every little bit helps").

second off, he's stating he went a whopping 6 miles past the "0" mark on his display. that's kiddie play there. yet, when he was a teeny tiny 6 miles past 0 on the display he had to put 18.566 gallons of gas in the accord's 17.1 gallon tank???? ok, and pigs fly too..... :lmao:

filling your gas tank up beyond it's full point is bad for the car itself-which i will let stevel explain the finer points of this and why there is "extra" room in the tank beyond what you should be putting in it.


http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2400

Congrats to you as well Stevel and thanks.

How much I save depends on how you look at it. A little background:

Oregon has the third highest gas prices in the country behind CA and WA at the moment they dipped down but it was $3.4/gallon back in May. The higher gas is, the bigger difference it makes for me to buy less of it.

Between our two cars we drive about 1600-1800 miles a month. I do the majority of our driving, and its mostly in our Accord. My wife usually takes the Max (light rail) to work downtown, but occasionally she'll drive and when she does its a short trip. I have a longer commute across the Portland metro area. Lately I've been averaging in the upper thirties in mixed driving which is around 8-10mpg better than I was doing before in this car for that type of driving.

Now that I've been trying to save gas I drive the Honda almost exclusively to work because it gets better mileage than our other car (86 Volvo wagon) and its also more responsive to efforts to try to save fuel. My old strategy was to put some of the miles on the second car and some on the Honda to keep them from getting too high. Now I for my non-commute driving I try to cut out smaller and unnecessary trips that I could walk or bike when possible. The Accord is getting driven overall more than it was before, but I'm still going to keep things so I'm driving it about 15,000 miles a year. I'm no longer commuting in the Volvo and that helps because it was getting in the low 20's for that commute the way I was driving it (in a hurry).

If Gas stays as low as it is right now and you only consider the mileage improvement that in my Accord, its only about $27 a month I'm saving just in my commuting. If you factor in I'm cutting out about 450 miles of commuting time in a car that (when driven rushed in mixed conditions) gets in the low 20's, that figure goes up just over $40/month. If you factor in I'm driving less miles overall, that figure goes up even more. This is figured at $3/gallon. When gas goes back up, and unfortunately it will, these savings figures go up.

I know you're thinking this is small change but it all adds up. Spending less on gas isn't the only thing I'm doing to be less wasteful. I'm reading a book right now called the Tightwad Gazette that's like the hypermiling version of home economics. Like hypermiling, I'm not able to apply every idea for my situation, but I have been able to do some things and we're ending up with more money in savings at the end of the month. I don't know if I'll be able to achieve all the goals I mentioned, but for me its fun to try.

Anysia - in regards to hypermilers causing others to burn more gas I just don't buy it. No one is forcing anyone to get road rage its time people took responsiblity for their own actions and didn't try to find a scapegoat group. Even when I was averaging 5-10 over like I use to I'm sure people had to brake behind me at times if they misjudged my speed before they tried to make a lane change or something. Hypermilers don't tend to be the ones making quick lane changes, quick accelerations or fast braking. Thats going to cause other drivers to brake much more than anything.

I don't have a problem with anyone going the speed limit on a two lane road. If you drive slower then the limit, that's where we have a problem.

And honestly, if you drive below the limit on a two lane road, the only thing you're managing to prove is how cheap and inconsiderate you are. OOOOHH Boy! You saved a whole 10 cents on your trip because you did 35 in a 45. Unbelievably lame...


OOOOHH Boy,,,, Its more than 10 cents. LMAO!!! A lot of the savings goes into my 401k. Little dollars make Thousands of dollars down the road. And the savings buy the wife flowers every once in a while. Just a little less that big oil, the middle east and central america don't get from my pocket. 10 cents... LMAO.

Hey

If you get off on this, by all means enjoy yourself

next he states he drives slower than 85% of driver's out there. where does this figure come from? what fact? as he is so willing to point out about anything i post, where is his basis in FACT?

next, onto oil. hope he doesn't need any warranty repairs where they can prove him running oil oter than recommended weights....

next, he says how his goal is hold his mpg's steady on his trip meter, NOT his speed. he blatantly states he'll let his car "bleed speed" as he climbs a hill in order to maintain his mpgs. somehow i managed to get 36, 37, 38 mpg's on trips between wisconsin and pennsylvania without utilizing this slow as you go up the hill approach. i simply avoid drastic accelerator action. i hold my speed steady, which is much more important than holding my mpg's steady as i climb a hill. put it in the proper gear for the speed and incline and you'll find you are not blowing mpg;s out of your back end. :rolleyes: of course it's not the extreme version, but it is the sane version. the i would like not to get run over by another car version. the i would also like to reach the top of the hill before i'm 80 version.

need anyone say any more about tire pressure??? not only is he blowing honda's rec'd tire pressure completely out of the window but he is also blowing the tire manufacturer's ratings out of the window. i hope when his tire does blow, he is cited for wreckless driving. when asked to provide proof, he directed pairallel to look it up for himself. and referenced a goodyear or bridgestone tire engineer who told everyone that michelins are capable of absurd psi. uh, ok. nice, prove your supposed facts by telling someone else to go search for it.

again, i ask why is he ripping on me for not having concrete data when he has yet to provide any? i even find it appalling that he is claiming how much gas he can cram into an accord and only going 6 miles below the 0 on the display, yet i know from experience that you can go far below the 0 and anyone with half a brain knows you should stop filling your tank when it's full per the manufacturer's specs, not being able to see it at the rim. and yet half of the posters are beginning to subscribe to xcel's beliefs with no proof that his ways are safe. it's like the blind leading the blind. sure you can get better mpgs by following some of his suggestions. you can also get yourself killed. and i'm actually starting to question what kind of reprogramming he has done to his displays in his car given the unfactual stuff i've read in that thread. some of it seems quit a bit contrived and i'd love to see him take a car off of a lot that has not been driven or touched by him prior and achieve what he states you can. something tells me some of his numbers are overinflated truth on his behalf. (and for those who are naive enough to go "but he posted pictures of his display!!" well, there's always photochop!)


http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2400

sorry, we actually enjoy driving. we don't drive to show off or create bragging rights about our mpg. we know we use more fuel than some. and we don't mind because WE LIKE DRIVING. we go driving for no good reason sometimes. we like to step on the gas when conditions are appropriate. more citizenly friendly? give me a break. :lmao:

and oh yeah. it's people like you and your silly need to show of the FE you can produce that makes me drive in a such a way to reduce my FE just to counteract your excessive silliness with my own.

:lmao: :yes: Tomorrow I think I'll redline in 1st and 2nd at every stop I make.

Anysia - in regards to hypermilers causing others to burn more gas I just don't buy it. No one is forcing anyone to get road rage its time people took responsiblity for their own actions and didn't try to find a scapegoat group. Even when I was averaging 5-10 over like I use to I'm sure people had to brake behind me at times if they misjudged my speed before they tried to make a lane change or something. Hypermilers don't tend to be the ones making quick lane changes, quick accelerations or fast braking. Thats going to cause other drivers to brake much more than anything.

assuming that those behind are not wasting gas because of the driver in front is equally as bad as assuming they are wasting it. noone is forcing road rage, but some are evoking it in normally calm drivers.

once you have your child, you'll understand this even more. try running off to an urgent care or emergency room for your little baby when they're born because they have a high fever or they fell or anything that seems to require medical attention but not *quite* enough to call 911. try staying calm behind the jerk doing 5 to 10 below the speed limit in an area with no passing(and yes you will feel like that person is the biggest jerk immaginable when the time comes). suddenly, you'll find yourself wanting to run that person off the road. your best mpg will be out the window entirely. your goal will be to get this child medical attention now, not 2 minutes from now, not 5 minutes from now. NOW.

you dont know who is stuck behind you in a predicament like that. you don't know who is merely running late for a meeting (for whatever reason from they overslept to they had to help their puking child calm down before leaving mom to deal with it the rest of the day). you don't know who is simply impatient. you just don't know who is behind you or what their goals are. and personally, when i'm at the front of the pack, i drive to stay away from the car behind me. i don't appreciate having someone on my butt. sure, it's their fault if they hit me, but i'm not going to let myself be that sitting duck.

fact is noone is forcing anyone to get road rage or want to be going faster. but it HAPPENS. and nothing will change that. the only thing you can do is drive the speed limit and drive with common courtesy. then atleast you deduce that the idiot behind you who still won't let go is the one breaking the law and not you. ;)

:lmao: :yes: Tomorrow I think I'll redline in 1st and 2nd at every stop I make.

...and I've got nothing against you doing that. Your car, your money, your choice. Have fun!

sorry, we actually enjoy driving. we don't drive to show off or create bragging rights about our mpg. we know we use more fuel than some. and we don't mind because WE LIKE DRIVING. we go driving for no good reason sometimes. we like to step on the gas when conditions are appropriate. more citizenly friendly? give me a break. :lmao:

and oh yeah. it's people like you and your silly need to show of the FE you can produce that makes me drive in a such a way to reduce my FE just to counteract your excessive silliness with my own.

I enjoy my time behind the wheel a lot also. I enjoy brisk runs on the clover leafs sometimes. Im still impressed how the Civic acts like it has a LSD. When it dosen't. My cars see redline every tank.

I also enjoy hypermiling. I like seeing 600 mile plus tanks with my Civic. Hypermiling dosen't mean slow or none spirited driving. The wife and I not long ago took a trip to Eureka Springs Arkansas. Roads Ive spent my life on in cars and on bikes. Just flogging the crap out of them. 49 mpg for the trip didn't mean boring. Drive with load up the hills and then fas down the other side. Didnt use the brakes in the past for the corners,,,, why use them now. OOOO and some of the coasting and fasing on old hwy 71 south was wonderful. Glide along for miles with no engine. Just the Honda road noise and wind. With the Boston Mountains scrolling by. The wife only had to white knuckle half the trip, instead of all off it. :)

:lmao: :yes: Tomorrow I think I'll redline in 1st and 2nd at every stop I make.

and i think tomorrow i won't carpool with stevel. and then we can BOTH redline it whenever remotely possible. i think i'll also wait when the light turns green if i'm not the first car. i'll let that first car get far enough away so i can still get the fun of redlining it without rearending them.

hey, noone ever said i couldn't sit at a green light and not go for 30 seconds right? that's not illegal at all.

OOOOHH Boy,,,, Its more than 10 cents. LMAO!!! A lot of the savings goes into my 401k. Little dollars make Thousands of dollars down the road. And the savings buy the wife flowers every once in a while. Just a little less that big oil, the middle east and central america don't get from my pocket. 10 cents... LMAO.

:lmao: 10 cents or a dollar...I'd rather enjoy my drive then penny pinch my way through a mile :wave:

Well, at least you're not a complete cheap bastard, you're wife gets something out of it!

My wife gets VTEC from 6K to 7.3K:lmao:

and for psy who keeps talking about supporting the middle east....


wasn't there a day and time when buying these japanese cars was EXACTLY the same as this whole oil issue you keep referring to? yet you're driving a couple of them their evil japanese cars!! :yes:

:lmao: 10 cents or a dollar...I'd rather enjoy my drive then penny pinch my way through a mile :wave:

Well, at least you're not a complete cheap bastard, you're wife gets something out of it!

My wife gets VTEC from 6K to 7.3K:lmao:

oh no, how dare you give the wife vtec! :lmao:

assuming that those behind are not wasting gas because of the driver in front is equally as bad as assuming they are wasting it. noone is forcing road rage, but some are evoking it in normally calm drivers.
People are responsible for there own actions. If they have road rage they have issues. No excuses


once you have your child, you'll understand this even more. try running off to an urgent care or emergency room for your little baby when they're born because they have a high fever or they fell or anything that seems to require medical attention but not *quite* enough to call 911. try staying calm behind the jerk doing 5 to 10 below the speed limit in an area with no passing(and yes you will feel like that person is the biggest jerk immaginable when the time comes). suddenly, you'll find yourself wanting to run that person off the road. your best mpg will be out the window entirely. your goal will be to get this child medical attention now, not 2 minutes from now, not 5 minutes from now. NOW. Hopefully there won't be a 3 mile backup on I-5 due to yet another accident where excessive speed is a factor. That and alcholol seem to be the most common reasons cited when the news reports on an accident.


you dont know who is stuck behind you in a predicament like that. you don't know who is merely running late for a meeting (for whatever reason from they overslept to they had to help their puking child calm down before leaving mom to deal with it the rest of the day). you don't know who is simply impatient. you just don't know who is behind you or what their goals are. and personally, when i'm at the front of the pack, i drive to stay away from the car behind me. i don't appreciate having someone on my butt. sure, it's their fault if they hit me, but i'm not going to let myself be that sitting duck.
And you don't know if the car behind you will continue to speed up if you speed up to try to get them off your tail. I've had that happen over the years plenty of times. I'm tailgated less now that I'm not fighting it out in the middle and left lanes.


fact is noone is forcing anyone to get road rage or want to be going faster. but it HAPPENS. and nothing will change that. the only thing you can do is drive the speed limit and drive with common courtesy. then atleast you deduce that the idiot behind you who still won't let go is the one breaking the law and not you. ;)
1st sentence there says it all -- Exactly why we don't need to try to find a scapegoat group.

Saw this on the news tonight, how fitting :lmao:

http://www.leftlanedrivers.org/

:lmao: :yes: Tomorrow I think I'll redline in 1st and 2nd at every stop I make.

LOL Just remember one thing...

http://www.ewebjunk.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/talladega1.jpg

IF YOU AINT FIRST, YOURE LAST!

People are responsible for there own actions. If they have road rage they have issues. No excuses

Hopefully there won't be a 3 mile backup on I-5 due to yet another accident where excessive speed is a factor. That and alcholol seem to be the most common reasons cited when the news reports on an accident.


And you don't know if the car behind you will continue to speed up if you speed up to try to get them off your tail. I've had that happen over the years plenty of times. I'm tailgated less now that I'm not fighting it out in the middle and left lanes.


1st sentence there says it all -- Exactly why we don't need to try to find a scapegoat group.


and exactly why hypermilers are hurting things overall. you, as a hypermiler, cannot control those cars behind you. but when you create that road rage due to driving below stated limits, you create more gas consumption. you are hurting exactly what you want to help. and seing the people who say it does give them reason to react and waste more gas is proof that it does indeed cause people to waste more gas.

hey, if the car behind me continues to speed up, i'll brake check them. no seriously, when i'm on a one lane each way road (which for some reason everyone keeps reverting back to being on highways with options to pass, which is not always the case), if you still want to tail me, go for it. if i'm doing the speed limit or above, oh well. if you must keep tailing, go for it. but if i;m doing below and there isn't an opportunity to pass me due to the type of road/no passing on it, then i'd be the nice COURTEOUS driver and pull off while they pass. then i'd go on my merry way. however, hypermilers refuse to do such because that means theevil dreaded stopping...........

if hypermilers refuse to acknowledge the road rage that ensues in their wake, then , well, i feel sorry for their naive thinking. and it's all to avoid thinking that they hurt oil consumption at all. hypermilers are fanatics. they're an extreme. and they'll always be able to respond with something to try to validate their ways. i hate extremists who cannot see the greater effect of their actions whether or not it is directly connectable to them.

From their site:
To that end, before you purchase your Move Over™ Windshield Decal, you must promise that you will be careful to observe the driving laws of the state in which you are driving and that you will make every effort to demonstrate the utmost in driving courtesy to other drivers with whom you share the road.

Yeah right like no one that buys this sticker will go over the speed limit. What a joke.

Saw this on the news tonight, how fitting :lmao:

http://www.leftlanedrivers.org/
:lmao:

of course, can i use this in the right lane and direct those driving under the speed limit to pull off onto the berm? or better yet, over a cliff? :lmao:

this may like an excruiciantingly hard point for the pro-hypermilers to see, but alot of what you are stating is based on as much fact as what i'm stating.

yes, there is a minimum speed even when not posted in some states. some states choose to post the minimum speed, others only post a "limit". the limit is the recommended driving speed in these areas, unless conditions dictate otherwise. and personally, i'd lose to see you argue that a sunny, dry day dictates dropping speeds below the limit. it should be treated the same as doing above the speed limit and in some states it is treated as such and you can indeed be ticketed for it.

xcel, please quit referring to my opinions as "trash". i have voiced my opinions taking into account your OPINIONS. both are OPINIONS. i can argue that you can't prove that a line of driver's behind you is NOT wasting gas due to your driving habits just as easily as i can't prove that they ARE wasting gas. it's all opinion. i'll talk my "trash", you talk your "trash". it's all on the same level and not fair to pit one side as being trash or as it's even been implied that a side not employing hypermiling is supporting terorists. wherever in the world did you get your facts from to prove that just by not taking gas savings to an extreme that i'm supporting terrorists??????? :dunno: ps~by deduction~ you causing that line of cars behind you to waste gas (my "trash" talk, which has as much substantiated basis as your side) makes you a supporter of terrorism. you're egging others on to support terrorism and trying to come away with clean hands, no guilt, by adding the "fuel to the fire" passively. every pun in the book intended there. :banana:

Fact is waisting fuel like we do in the USA does support the middle eastern country's. Along with Central American Dictators. Thats a fact. Supply and demand. Some of us demand more than others. :)

As for holding up traffic. I don't think the 6 or 7 cars that followed me for the first 10 miles after I left work doing 54 mph to 57 mph where getting bad FE. They could have passed,, got off hwy 169 or the Creek Nation Turnpike. Honked, flipped me off or raged in some way. But they didn't. They all lined up behind me and we went our merry way in a distant draft and got better FE. There mistake was they got off on hwy 75 south. Where I need to get off. But dont cause I dont care to wait in a 3 mile traffic jam. So I go on down the pike. Take 49th w. ave south around the mess. I keep moving. Keep my mpg up and dont get bent in the jam up. They all seemed to catch back up to me 5 miles south of glenpool. And then we go on in our little slow lane tribe. I just don't think any of them where complaining about waisting fuel. And we sure didn't force anybody else to waste fuel. We got passed alot. As it is everyday. :)

From their site:
To that end, before you purchase your Move Over™ Windshield Decal, you must promise that you will be careful to observe the driving laws of the state in which you are driving and that you will make every effort to demonstrate the utmost in driving courtesy to other drivers with whom you share the road.

Yeah right like no one that buys this sticker will go over the speed limit. What a joke.

aw, man, that's an absurd statement. suggesting that people buying it will drive faster than the posted speed limit. i want one to direct those driving below the speed limit to just vacate the road entirely!!! (while i cruise along with traffic, speed limit or above. funny thing is you can actually get pulled over for going below the rest fo traffic without hazard lights too...)

Fact is waisting fuel like we do in the USA does support the middle eastern country's. Along with Central American Dictators. Thats a fact. Supply and demand. Some of us demand more than others. :)

As for holding up traffic. I don't think the 6 or 7 cars that followed me for the first 10 miles after I left work doing 54 mph to 57 mph where getting bad FE. They could have passed,, got off hwy 169 or the Creek Nation Turnpike. Honked, flipped me off or raged in some way. But they didn't. They all lined up behind me and we went our merry way in a distant draft and got better FE. There mistake was they got off on hwy 75 south. Where I need to get off. But dont cause I dont care to wait in a 3 mile traffic jam. So I go on down the pike. Take 49th w. ave south around the mess. I keep moving. Keep my mpg up and dont get bent in the jam up. They all seemed to catch back up to me 5 miles south of glenpool. And then we go on in our little slow lane tribe. I just don't think any of them where complaining about waisting fuel. And we sure didn't force anybody else to waste fuel. We got passed alot. As it is everyday. :)

hey someday, the middle east may be the japan of today. i'm pretty sure none of us can predict the future. years ago, who thought japan and germany would be supplying so many vehicles to the us now? and we're on fine terms with all now too. so who knows what the middle east holds down the road. a few bad seeds don't make the whole area bad. heck, we have some pretty downright nasty seeds right here on our own soil, born and bred.....

hey, i'm all for avoiding the congested routes. less aggravation. until i find i went out of my way to avoid aggravation only to run into someone who can't keep up with the numbers on the signs. sometimes i've chalked it up to dyslexia. maybe they're reading 40 as 04. :lmao: and well, i can't hold that against someone who can;t help it.....

next he states he drives slower than 85% of driver's out there. where does this figure come from? what fact? as he is so willing to point out about anything i post, where is his basis in FACT?

next, onto oil. hope he doesn't need any warranty repairs where they can prove him running oil oter than recommended weights....

next, he says how his goal is hold his mpg's steady on his trip meter, NOT his speed. he blatantly states he'll let his car "bleed speed" as he climbs a hill in order to maintain his mpgs. somehow i managed to get 36, 37, 38 mpg's on trips between wisconsin and pennsylvania without utilizing this slow as you go up the hill approach. i simply avoid drastic accelerator action. i hold my speed steady, which is much more important than holding my mpg's steady as i climb a hill. put it in the proper gear for the speed and incline and you'll find you are not blowing mpg;s out of your back end. :rolleyes: of course it's not the extreme version, but it is the sane version. the i would like not to get run over by another car version. the i would also like to reach the top of the hill before i'm 80 version.

need anyone say any more about tire pressure??? not only is he blowing honda's rec'd tire pressure completely out of the window but he is also blowing the tire manufacturer's ratings out of the window. i hope when his tire does blow, he is cited for wreckless driving. when asked to provide proof, he directed pairallel to look it up for himself. and referenced a goodyear or bridgestone tire engineer who told everyone that michelins are capable of absurd psi. uh, ok. nice, prove your supposed facts by telling someone else to go search for it.

again, i ask why is he ripping on me for not having concrete data when he has yet to provide any? i even find it appalling that he is claiming how much gas he can cram into an accord and only going 6 miles below the 0 on the display, yet i know from experience that you can go far below the 0 and anyone with half a brain knows you should stop filling your tank when it's full per the manufacturer's specs, not being able to see it at the rim. and yet half of the posters are beginning to subscribe to xcel's beliefs with no proof that his ways are safe. it's like the blind leading the blind. sure you can get better mpgs by following some of his suggestions. you can also get yourself killed. and i'm actually starting to question what kind of reprogramming he has done to his displays in his car given the unfactual stuff i've read in that thread. some of it seems quit a bit contrived and i'd love to see him take a car off of a lot that has not been driven or touched by him prior and achieve what he states you can. something tells me some of his numbers are overinflated truth on his behalf. (and for those who are naive enough to go "but he posted pictures of his display!!" well, there's always photochop!)


http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2400

Ive been over filling for years. The only cars Ive owned where it didn't work good were GM products. They do flood the evap. systems. And even pee on the ground. Ive never had a filler neck joint leak either. Also I fill up early in the morning or late in the evening. And never on a ozone alert day in the heat of the day. never!!!

Xcel's numbers are real,,,, as are mine. Ive seen xcel drive. Ive ridden with him and he's ridden with me. Nobody is doubting your numbers. :lmao::lmao:

:lmao: 10 cents or a dollar...I'd rather enjoy my drive then penny pinch my way through a mile :wave:

Well, at least you're not a complete cheap bastard, you're wife gets something out of it!

My wife gets VTEC from 6K to 7.3K:lmao:

Wife has her own vtec if she wants to use it. I like my 1.5l economy vtec. But then again. If I wont to flog the Civic. It will run with a stock EP3. :naughty:

and exactly why hypermilers are hurting things overall. you, as a hypermiler, cannot control those cars behind you. but when you create that road rage due to driving below stated limits, you create more gas consumption.

There you go again no matter how many times you say it, its not going to become true. "When you create that road rage" give me a brake. Again, I have less people tailgaiting me now than I did before. The road rage artists are just as likely to get pissed off because they didn't get into the left lane because another car in the left lane was passing a car going 10 miles over but the road rage prone driver wanted to go 15+ miles over. Why do you continue to create excuses for these people?


hey, if the car behind me continues to speed up, i'll brake check them. no seriously, when i'm on a one lane each way road (which for some reason everyone keeps reverting back to being on highways with options to pass, which is not always the case), if you still want to tail me, go for it. if i'm doing the speed limit or above, oh well. if you must keep tailing, go for it. but if i;m doing below and there isn't an opportunity to pass me due to the type of road/no passing on it, then i'd be the nice COURTEOUS driver and pull off while they pass. then i'd go on my merry way. however, hypermilers refuse to do such because that means theevil dreaded stopping...........Great generalization of a group there. Like most folks I have no problem letting someone around me.


if hypermilers refuse to acknowledge the road rage that ensues in their wake, then , well, i feel sorry for their naive thinking. and it's all to avoid thinking that they hurt oil consumption at all. hypermilers are fanatics. they're an extreme. and they'll always be able to respond with something to try to validate their ways. i hate extremists who cannot see the greater effect of their actions whether or not it is directly connectable to them.

I'm like you I try to avoid situations where I might piss another driver off on the road. There's a time and place for everything but you're making assumptions that everyone who tries the techniques takes things way to far and drives well under the limit in places where passing is not possible at times where they have drivers behind them. The fact is there's a lot that can be learned from the hypermilers w/out taking things to the extremes you like to talk about and base your statistics off of. I'm still not convinced from your argument that hypermilers are causing 99% of the rest of traffic to burn more fuel.

LOL Just remember one thing...

http://www.ewebjunk.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/talladega1.jpg

IF YOU AINT FIRST, YOURE LAST!

:lmao:

And if you dont like Big Red gum then F*** YOU!!!

Wife has her own vtec if she wants to use it. I like my 1.5l economy vtec. But then again. If I wont to flog the Civic. It will run with a stock EP3. :naughty:

So does mine, but my VTEC'ness is better:yes:

and for psy who keeps talking about supporting the middle east....


wasn't there a day and time when buying these japanese cars was EXACTLY the same as this whole oil issue you keep referring to? yet you're driving a couple of them their evil japanese cars!! :yes:

anysia

To compare the world order leading up to WWI and then WWII has nothing in common with the middle east and the wars and world order of thousands of years.

There you go again no matter how many times you say it, its not going to become true. "When you create that road rage" give me a brake. Again, I have less people tailgaiting me now than I did before. The road rage artists are just as likely to get pissed off because they didn't get into the left lane because another car in the left lane was passing a car going 10 miles over but the road rage prone driver wanted to go 15+ miles over. Why do you continue to create excuses for these people?

Great generalization of a group there. Like most folks I have no problem letting someone around me.



I'm like you I try to avoid situations where I might piss another driver off on the road. There's a time and place for everything but you're making assumptions that everyone who tries the techniques takes things way to far and drives well under the limit in places where passing is not possible at times where they have drivers behind them. The fact is there's a lot that can be learned from the hypermilers w/out taking things to the extremes you like to talk about and base your statistics off of. I'm still not convinced from your argument that hypermilers are causing 99% of the rest of traffic to burn more fuel.

why do you insist on puttingme on these multiple lane roads?

the statistics of the hypermilers clique are as based in fact as my statistics are. period. :yes: so go ahead, keep pointing out how little fact there is behind my statistics and i'll just keep pointing outhow little there is behind the hypermiler stats as well. you can't tell me that the cars behind you are saving, using the same, or using more gas. neither can i. i can only go based off of what i see in my rearview mirror when i'm stuck behind a slowpoke. one road around here comes to mind. every morning we drive down it. if traffic is doing 45 as is the stated limit, most spread out. on occassion you run into someone who wants to go faster. (problem is this is one lane each direction, NO PASSING OPPORTUNITY).

flip side, on the mornings where someone is doing 40 or lower (even if it's a dump truck) there is an inevitable line of traffic behind them with brake lights in constant use. it's a nice straight road where you can see the dump truck at the front of the line and the 20 cars in front of you. but hey, if i'm the only one tailing the slow person, then why is it that all of those brakes lights keep getting lit up ahead of me? and the guy behind me is so close i can barely see his headlights? this road is either flowing nicely or slow and it's a 50/50 shot on any given day. and it rarely ever has a backup resulting from people doing the speed limit. but it almost always does whenever someone is going below it. and this is NOT just me at all. this is plenty of other drivers at 7am in the morning. (see? we even drive at "off hours" for work. 7am and 4:30pm which is the earliest i can leave, trust me it would be earlier if i could.)

anysia

To compare the world order leading up to WWI and then WWII has nothing in common with the middle east and the wars and world order of thousands of years.

at the time, the enemies in wwi and wwii were looked upon in the same regards as the middle east today.

i've determined based on the sheer number of fe posts made by xcel in the past that have resulted in locked threads, that this too, shall end up locked. :lmao:

at any rate:

more fun reads, where xcel said 99.5% of drivers waste gas. so, there's my fact to back up my past stated opinions. the great book of xcel stated it, so it's true!!! :banana:

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=806&page=2

and COOL, he was equating those not hypermiling to terrorists back then too! :lmao:

and how come the burst tire pressure changes depending on what thread xcel is posting in? so far i've read 100, 125, and 150. it's not consistent. yet another supposed fact that varies when it's convienient....


dang i need ot stop reading old posts for the nigt and get some sleep!!! :lmao: but i'm just so amused!!

the statistics of the hypermilers clique are as based in fact as my statistics are. period. :yes: so go ahead, keep pointing out how little fact there is behind my statistics and i'll just keep pointing outhow little there is behind the hypermiler stats as well.
My mileage has improved and I've been keeping watch of it. If you believe me less than these other "99%" of the drivers on the road that you are somehow able to keep track of the mileage for I'd have to say we have some trust issues here.

flip side, on the mornings where someone is doing 40 or lower (even if it's a dump truck) there is an inevitable line of traffic behind them with brake lights in constant use. it's a nice straight road where you can see the dump truck at the front of the line and the 20 cars in front of you. but hey, if i'm the only one tailing the slow person, then why is it that all of those brakes lights keep getting lit up ahead of me? and the guy behind me is so close i can barely see his headlights? this road is either flowing nicely or slow and it's a 50/50 shot on any given day. and it rarely ever has a backup resulting from people doing the speed limit. but it almost always does whenever someone is going below it. and this is NOT just me at all. this is plenty of other drivers at 7am in the morning. (see? we even drive at "off hours" for work. 7am and 4:30pm which is the earliest i can leave, trust me it would be earlier if i could.)

The basis for your argument seems to be hypermilers cause tailgaiters and road rage drivers because they go around driving under the speed limit in no passing situations with lines of cars behind them and because of this overall fuel consumption is going up. I disagree that this is what you have to do, but even if it were the case, people are still going to tailgate. I see plenty of brake lights among the drivers driving the speed limit and faster. One person thinks traffic speed should be the speed limit, one things it should be 5 over, another thinks 10 over. Within that not everyone's speedometer is calibrated the same. The people that are in so much of a rush that they get road rage are going to push the envelope regardless of if someone is going the speed limit or going 5mph over -- it won't be good enough -- they'll have to get ahead and get there first. We don't need to make excuses for them.

Very nice discussion we have going on here. This is the kind of threads that gets people excited about logging in at work....:)

In saying that, some of the posts are are on the verge of attacking others. If you want to attack a subject, that is fine, but please, let's keep the people out of it. I've read several posts where I feel Xcel is being personally targeted. Please stop it. You may not like hypermiling, but there is no need to belittle him.

Play nice and the playground stays open. Play mean and some might get into time out.

Thanks everyone.

My mileage has improved and I've been keeping watch of it. If you believe me less than these other "99%" of the drivers on the road that you are somehow able to keep track of the mileage for I'd have to say we have some trust issues here.


i CAN believe that you personally are saving gas. what i can't believe is that you are trying to claim your generalization is more valid than mine. :scratch: you can only tell me for sure what is going on in your car and i can only tell you for sure what is going on in mine. and thereis a slow car at the front holding me up, i can tell you i'm wasting gas sitting behind it. that is every bit as much of a fact as saying that you personally are saving some gas. i'm not sure why you think you can continue to tell me that your "fact" is correct and my "fact" is not.

let's leave it at this-
you're saving gas at the head of the line
stevel and i are wasting it sitting behind you

:yes: both are facts, both cannot be disputed. as much as you want to invite everyone to see your gas savings, i will equally invite them to come see the gas wastings in mine. i'm not complaining about my gas consumption, i'm merely pointing out that yes, without that slow driver in front of me, my gas mileage would be higher. and yes it is my choice to kill my mpg when i'm stuck behind someone slow. it's your choice to sit there and let me tail you as well. you can just as easily move over onto the berm and let me pass on that road where the road itself is not set up for passing. that's YOUR choice, move over and let the idiot behind you pass and then go on your merry way. my choice is whether i chose to tail and waste gas (but hey, at the same time, i'm drafting! :lmao: )

The basis for your argument seems to be hypermilers cause tailgaiters and road rage drivers because they go around driving under the speed limit in no passing situations with lines of cars behind them and because of this overall fuel consumption is going up. I disagree that this is what you have to do, but even if it were the case, people are still going to tailgate. I see plenty of brake lights among the drivers driving the speed limit and faster. One person thinks traffic speed should be the speed limit, one things it should be 5 over, another thinks 10 over. Within that not everyone's speedometer is calibrated the same. The people that are in so much of a rush that they get road rage are going to push the envelope regardless of if someone is going the speed limit or going 5mph over -- it won't be good enough -- they'll have to get ahead and get there first. We don't need to make excuses for them.

but like i mentioned earlier, when they tailgate and you are doing atleast the speed limit, you can rest assured that there was nothing else you should be doing. in fact you can go so far as to say if you are doing the speed limit, and you let that person pass, you're aiding and abetting them in breaking the law if you so choose. but if you are going below the speed limit, the guilty conscience falls on you, not the driver behind you. you.

and like i said, when your child is born and that first emergency comes up, you will find yourself wanting to run the slow pokes off the road. your goal will be to get help for that child, not save my mpg and try to get everyone else to conform to it too. :yes:

....on a side note, stevel's gas light came on this morning. i highly recommended he go into work and inflate his tires to 50#'s each, despite the manufacturer's max and honda's max, so that we can get another few days out of the tank. :screwy:

:lmao: :yes: Tomorrow I think I'll redline in 1st and 2nd at every stop I make.

If you can afford it, good for you!

But I don't want to see you crying that BIG OIL is screwing you over when it costs $50 and $60 to fill up.

By the way, there are riots in Iran right now because the Government is rationing gas... I heard lots of gas stations have been burned down. :paranoid:

If you can afford it, good for you!

But I don't want to see you crying that BIG OIL is screwing you over when it costs $50 and $60 to fill up.

By the way, there are riots in Iran right now because the Government is rationing gas... I heard lots of gas stations have been burned down. :paranoid:

Well, its not a matter of affording it. For one, I have to admit that I dont really have a commute as I drive 8 miles 1 way to work. So, baring any long road trips or traveling for the company, I usually gas up every three weeks. If I do travel for the company, I get paid 60 cents a mile. So if I drive a few hundred miles, that usually covers gas for a month or two.

But even without the reimbursement, Dropping $50 for gas every 2-3 weeks isnt much of a stretch.

Anyway, even if you cant afford gas prices the way they are, thats no excuse to inconvenience other drivers by driving under the speed limit.

Anyway, even if you cant afford gas prices the way they are, thats no excuse to inconvenience other drivers by driving under the speed limit.

There's nothing wrong with driving under the limit, as long as you are above the minimum speed.

______having been a member on here for quite some time, although with a long hiatus in the middle, i was around when xcel began the preaching. it's funny how two others, known to have changed to a very combative nature, also changed their tone to comply with xcel. i'm guessing it was due to others arguing the opposite, anti-hyper side, but that was expected from those unnamed members.

______on the other hand, xcel has repeatedly hashed out the same stuff, providing little to no proof of the safety of the things he recommends doing. he has been asked to prove his "facts" repeatedly and has failed to do so each time. and has a few croonies now who will back him to no end. no doubt they were recruited to help him justify his views more and are most likely participaters from his clan on his hypermiler forums.

______that said, "the gang" will continually bash those who don't agree with hypermiling even when valid concerns with the techniques used are brought up.

______if as a hypermiler you want to endanger yourself with overinflated tires, turning your engine off to coast, and claiming that while you're steadfastly staring at your mpg tally that you're one of the best and most alert drivers on the road, go for it. but PLEASE by all means, employ these tactics when you are on private roads away from the general public. a track is preferred. you are as much of a danger to those people on the road as the person doing 65 in a 55. and no, i don't have the facts to back any of this up, but neither do you. you have proven it over and over and over again with the pointless rants that usually result in threads being locked. there isn't one topic that results in as many locked threads as there are concerning hypermilers. so please, by all means until you can prove that your techniques are safe for the mass public to be using without massive training and restructuring tires and cars to be able to act properly when using your techniques, please drop the "my opinions are fact. your opinions are not." argument. i have read some very valid arguments about why many of these techniques are unsafe. i've read many where it's against the law even. and those posters have had more to back up their claims than any hypermiler has provided to support their argument.

______it's been excessively amusing to reread threads gone by on this topic. i even ran into a post, where one of "the gang" TURNED AROUND in traffic to take a picture to show what he drives in!!!!! i'm sorry but i do not care HOW skilled of a driver you claim to be, that is NOT at ALL safe under ANY circumstances.

____good luck
____anysia :)

There's nothing wrong with driving under the limit, as long as you are above the minimum speed.

if there is a posted minnimum and you are in the appropriate lanes for it, by all means, be my guest. i'll drive down the same stretch of highway and get to my destination much quicker (i do have personal proof on this one-630 mile highway trips can last 8 hours to 12 hours or longer depending on your speed between the same 2 destinations. and speed does cause it to vary DRASTICALLY). over a 2 or 3 mile jaunt, you may not get there much quicker, but by doing the speed limit over a much longer span of miles will get me to my destination and having fun much quicker than the one doing the min.

without a posted minimum, the min is the same as the limit as far as i've ever been told or read. drive more than 5 below and you're at the same risk of being pulled over as the guy doing 5 above.

To read some of the posts on this thread, one would think that economic driving is a new idea! :biggrin: The law against freewheeling was past here long before they even had power assis steering, in fact one of the very early Rover cars had a knob you could turn that made the car drop out of gear unless it was actually under load! (it was discontinued due to poor sales) So people were doing it decades ago..

"Hypermiling" is a silly, inept (bad English) unnecessary word that someone dreamt up.. It's just economic driving, nothing more, and it only takes a tiny amount of common sense, you certainly don't need lessons!! :biggrin:

Regarding brakes working when the engine is off.. That may be true of new or well maintained cars, but they are both rare in comparison with the total numbers of cars on the road! Most cars vacuum systems leak, some slightly, some quite badly..And there are still many thousands of cars on the road that don't have power assis brakes at all so it doesn't effect them at all. :dunno: Cables break, pipes crack and fail. Better to err on the safe side and NOT take risks with your own and other peoples lives.. :paranoid:

If you really care about saving fuel, for whatever reasons, then lobby your Gov to get diesels imported!!! Mine is now running on used cooking oil from my friends bakery for free! :biggrin: He used to dump all old waste oil, but now the locals take it away for fuel. The same is happening to all the fast food places and chippies here.. :biggrin: I'm not doing it to be eco, but because it saves me money!!! :D :biggrin:

If you can't go diesel ok, then get the most economic car available to you.. It's that simple. :dunno: Horses for courses, you don't have to buy a racehorse to pull a donkey cart.. It's your choice...

Trying to eak out as many miles per gallon as humanly possible, from a 2litre car is a nonsense, when a 1ltre car will get better mpg all day long with no effort whatsover! :dunno:
.

without a posted minimum, the min is the same as the limit as far as i've ever been told or read. drive more than 5 below and you're at the same risk of being pulled over as the guy doing 5 above.

I've never read that anywhere, or been told that by anyone but you. Out of curiosity, is there a link that you can provide that shows specific numbers where going below the speed limit in no posted areas is illegal?

I've never read that anywhere, or been told that by anyone but you. Out of curiosity, is there a link that you can provide that shows specific numbers where going below the speed limit in no posted areas is illegal?
From the NH RSA's... http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/265/265-64.htm - it's a law to not interrupt the "flow of traffic" by going too slow.....

From the NH RSA's... http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/265/265-64.htm - it's a law to not interrupt the "flow of traffic" by going too slow.....

I've seen stuff like that but still no specific numbers in regards to minimum speed in a non-posted area, which is what I was wondering.

And the whole thing actually reads:
No person shall drive a vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.


I think everyone's definition of "normal and reasonable" is entirely up to interpretation. Where one person sees that driving at or 5-10 above the speed limit is reasonable, someone else might see that its reasonable to be able to drive 5-10 below the limit. :dunno:

I've seen stuff like that but still no specific numbers in regards to minimum speed in a non-posted area, which is what I was wondering.

And the whole thing actually reads:



I think everyone's definition of "normal and reasonable" is entirely up to interpretation. Where one person sees that driving at or 5-10 above the speed limit is reasonable, someone else might see that its reasonable to be able to drive 5-10 below the limit. :dunno:

by this assumption, then whenever i get pulled over for doing 5 or 10 above, i'm going to insist on no ticket. i find it "reasonable".

stiller, make note for fighting that next 5 mph over ticket! :yes: prove it was reasonable and there ya go!

I think everyone's definition of "normal and reasonable" is entirely up to interpretation. Where one person sees that driving at or 5-10 above the speed limit is reasonable, someone else might see that its reasonable to be able to drive 5-10 below the limit.

obviously you are looking for a way to discount how the law reads and stretching it to do so. my simple interpretation would be that if you are driving 45mph on a beautiful sunny spring day in a 55mph zone and cars are lining up behind you, unable to pass for whatever reason, you are clearly impeding the flow of traffic. seems simple to me.

I've seen stuff like that but still no specific numbers in regards to minimum speed in a non-posted area, which is what I was wondering.

I think everyone's definition of "normal and reasonable" is entirely up to interpretation. Where one person sees that driving at or 5-10 above the speed limit is reasonable, someone else might see that its reasonable to be able to drive 5-10 below the limit. :dunno:
In the end, the interpretation of "normal and reasonable" is by the guy with the blue flashing lights, and if he finds someone driving 5-10 under and 30 cars stacked behind, I've seen him pull that person over for advice. On NH rural roads, speed limit is 30, and "normal and reasonable" standards are 5-10 mph over. Cars going 30 start stacking up traffic, and less than that get the attention of the local revenuers.

obviously you are looking for a way to discount how the law reads and stretching it to do so. my simple interpretation would be that if you are driving 45mph on a beautiful sunny spring day in a 55mph zone and cars are lining up behind you, unable to pass for whatever reason, you are clearly impeding the flow of traffic. seems simple to me.

gotta love people who can phrase it simpler than wordy me.

exactly. :thmsup:

and to try to say there isn't a line of cars forming behind you, look behind the one guy behind you who may at times be someone keeping a steady, but respectable distance from you. the rest of the cars are behind him. :lmao:

stiller, make note for fighting that next 5 mph over ticket! :yes: prove it was reasonable and there ya go!

trust me, that is already one of the things that i will state, considering that i was going downhill.....

btw, has anyone ever seen a pre 1994 honda accord with a cruise control that doesn't fluctuate??? :dunno:

trust me, that is already one of the things that i will state, considering that i was going downhill.....

btw, has anyone ever seen a pre 1994 honda accord with a cruise control that doesn't fluctuate??? :dunno:

let us know how it goes! :yes:

we already know telling cops they were abusing their power by tailgating when there is no safe opportunity to move over and out of their way doesn't work out. :lmao:

but, the good thing about that ticket was, i didn't have to pay a dime.

i still did get the points tho.... :thumbsdow

but, the good thing about that ticket was, i didn't have to pay a dime.

i still did get the points tho.... :thumbsdow

i'd prefer the fine over the points! the points can hurt more in the long run (increased insurance, etc).

oh well, nother discussion for another thread. just remember the reasonable argument applies to over the limit as much as under! :thmsup: feel free to cite the discussion here as well, because everything in it is all factual. :lmao: no, don't try that. very very very bad idea! you'd probably get laughed right out of that little "court" appearance!:paranoid:

but, maybe they'll feel sorry for me by acting (being???) stupid, and drop the ticket.... :lmao: :yes:

try arguin gthat your spedometer showed 10 below the limit!! :naughty:

obviously you are looking for a way to discount how the law reads and stretching it to do so. my simple interpretation would be that if you are driving 45mph on a beautiful sunny spring day in a 55mph zone and cars are lining up behind you, unable to pass for whatever reason, you are clearly impeding the flow of traffic. seems simple to me.

If you say so, but on the same token you can say that anysia is doing the same thing by saying:

by this assumption, then whenever i get pulled over for doing 5 or 10 above, i'm going to insist on no ticket.

If you say so, but on the same token you can say that anysia is doing the same thing by saying:

I must be missing something because I don't understand what you mean by that?

If you say so, but on the same token you can say that anysia is doing the same thing by saying:

uh, duh, i said that as a response to the idea that going below isn't a violation, but going the equal amount faster is one. i didn't say i was really going to do it in real life. it was sarcasm. good grief, i apparently need to put a disclaimer stating when it's sarcasm as well. it was to dipict how absurd it sounds when you say it's not a problem to go below but it is a huge ordeal f you go the same amount above.

I'm referring to what you said about "you are looking for a way to discount how the law reads and stretching it to do so."

I'm referring to what you said about "you are looking for a way to discount how the law reads and stretching it to do so."

and when i said i was oging to insist on no ticket for going the equal amount over the limit, i was being sarcastic to suggest how insane it is to suggest you cannot be ticketed for driving too slow and that it does not create any problems on the road.

uh, duh, i said that as a response to the idea that going below isn't a violation, but going the equal amount faster is one. i didn't say i was really going to do it in real life. it was sarcasm. good grief, i apparently need to put a disclaimer stating when it's sarcasm as well. it was to dipict how absurd it sounds when you say it's not a problem to go below but it is a huge ordeal f you go the same amount above.

I still dont see how its absurd to think its alright to go below the speed limit in certain areas, when its not impeding the flow of traffic. I DID say its excessive to drive 15 below. I think you're reading way too much into what I'm saying, perhaps I need to provide a disclaimer as well.

There's nothing wrong with driving under the limit, as long as you are above the minimum speed.

Which is usually only listed on highways. I've encountered plenty of drivers that drive well below the posted speed limit with no minimum posted.

I still dont see how its absurd to think its alright to go below the speed limit in certain areas, when its not impeding the flow of traffic. I DID say its excessive to drive 15 below. I think you're reading way too much into what I'm saying, perhaps I need to provide a disclaimer as well.

then i should be able to safely drive 5-10 above the speed limit with no problems either, right? by the reasoning that 5-10 below is perfectly fine and safe and not causing any problems and would be horrible to ticket someone for doing it, i should be able to go above to the same degree and get away with it as well, yet there seems to be a backlash saying no, can't go above that number that is perfectly fine (and i understand it), but when it's pointed out that below is equally as irresponsible and can be ticketed, it's a big argument? why? both are WRONG. and if one can get away with it, then the other should be able to as well.

same as you wouldn't have twins sitting there and you say ok, twin a can have 2 oreos, twin b, sorry, you only get one. not exactly fair.

i CAN believe that you personally are saving gas. what i can't believe is that you are trying to claim your generalization is more valid than mine.
which generalization did I make that you are referring to?:scratch:

you can only tell me for sure what is going on in your car and i can only tell you for sure what is going on in mine. and thereis a slow car at the front holding me up, i can tell you i'm wasting gas sitting behind it. that is every bit as much of a fact as saying that you personally are saving some gas. i'm not sure why you think you can continue to tell me that your "fact" is correct and my "fact" is not.
let's leave it at this-
you're saving gas at the head of the line
stevel and i are wasting it sitting behind you
:yes: both are facts, both cannot be disputed. as much as you want to invite everyone to see your gas savings, i will equally invite them to come see the gas wastings in mine. i'm not complaining about my gas consumption, i'm merely pointing out that yes, without that slow driver in front of me, my gas mileage would be higher. and yes it is my choice to kill my mpg when i'm stuck behind someone slow. it's your choice to sit there and let me tail you as well. you can just as easily move over onto the berm and let me pass on that road where the road itself is not set up for passing. that's YOUR choice, move over and let the idiot behind you pass and then go on your merry way. my choice is whether i chose to tail and waste gas (but hey, at the same time, i'm drafting! )
I’m doing my best to understand the facts you claimed earlier. In order for your facts to be correct we need to assume the following:

- I am driving under the speed limit in areas where cars cannot pass. Again, I don’t think this is a good idea and this isn’t what I do. For purposes of trying to prove your argument true, lets suppose I am the dump truck driver driving 40 in a 45 you stated earlier.
- You’re familiar with the gas mileage of 99% of the drivers out there and how driving different speeds affects the mileage on their vehicles.
- If a driver is driving slower than the car behind them prefers to drive, the cars behind them burn more gas than they would if they were able to drive the speed they prefer to drive.
- Assuming the last thing is true we need to assume that your own driving never causes the effect. Therefore everyone behind you wants to drive the same speed that you personally drive and they all they have their speedometer calibrated the same. No one wants to drive any faster than the speed you are driving, which according to earlier posts is the speed limit. Considering how many cars pass me when I’m driving the speed limit I seriously doubt this assumption is true.

I have doubts about any of the assumptions being true -- let alone all of them. :lmao:
and like i said, when your child is born and that first emergency comes up, you will find yourself wanting to run the slow pokes off the road. your goal will be to get help for that child, not save my mpg and try to get everyone else to conform to it too.
I replied the first time you posted that. One thing I’ll add is I like how you assume that because I haven’t had a child born yet I haven’t been in an emergency situation related to someone I care for.

then i should be able to safely drive 5-10 above the speed limit with no problems either, right? by the reasoning that 5-10 below is perfectly fine and safe and not causing any problems and would be horrible to ticket someone for doing it, i should be able to go above to the same degree and get away with it as well, yet there seems to be a backlash saying no, can't go above that number that is perfectly fine (and i understand it), but when it's pointed out that below is equally as irresponsible and can be ticketed, it's a big argument? why? both are WRONG. and if one can get away with it, then the other should be able to as well.



same as you wouldn't have twins sitting there and you say ok, twin a can have 2 oreos, twin b, sorry, you only get one. not exactly fair.

I have no problem with that if thats what you choose to do. In fact, I drive pretty much around that range on local roads also. I was only asking if there was a specific number in regards to what is lawfully the minimum range below the speed limit, not what is considered normal or reasonable. I understand that in the end its all up to the boys in blue, but if its not in big bold numbers, how effectively can it be enforced?

which generalization did I make that you are referring to?:scratch:

I’m doing my best to understand the facts you claimed earlier. In order for your facts to be correct we need to assume the following:

- I am driving under the speed limit in areas where cars cannot pass. Again, I don’t think this is a good idea and this isn’t what I do. For purposes of trying to prove your argument true, lets suppose I am the dump truck driver driving 40 in a 45 you stated earlier.
- You’re familiar with the gas mileage of 99% of the drivers out there and how driving different speeds affects the mileage on their vehicles.
- If a driver is driving slower than the car behind them prefers to drive, the cars behind them burn more gas than they would if they were able to drive the speed they prefer to drive.
- Assuming the last thing is true we need to assume that your own driving never causes the effect. Therefore everyone behind you wants to drive the same speed that you personally drive and they all they have their speedometer calibrated the same. No one wants to drive any faster than the speed you are driving, which according to earlier posts is the speed limit. Considering how many cars pass me when I’m driving the speed limit I seriously doubt this assumption is true.

I have doubts about any of the assumptions being true -- let alone all of them. :lmao:

I replied the first time you posted that. One thing I’ll add is I like how you assume that because I haven’t had a child born yet I haven’t been in an emergency situation related to someone I care for.

it changes when it's your child. it's different from when it's a parent or sibling or pet or friend or significant other. and it is something you just don't realize until your child exists. i'm sure you;ll come back and post, nope it's no different just to try to prove me wrong, but you'll know that it was. noone is claiming you haven't dealt with an emergency in your family ro anyone close to you. what i'm saying is that it all changes, it all gets a new perspective when it is your own child. it's different. something that can't be explained until you have your child and have that first emergency.

my generalizations you so eloquently copied above with added comments in it that weren't set off are equal to your generalizations suggesting that none of it is true. prove they are not true. it's as hard for you to fo that as it is for me to prove they are. you're saying most driving behind you are not wasting gas (ala brake/gas/brake/gas -yet i know we all see how many brake lights light up in these situations when you pretty far back in the line, one can only deduce that the next action is gas, which is followed by more breaking). per the hypermiling ways of avoiding braking/stopping/accelerating/etc, this action of brake/gas/brake/gas would use more than the normal amount fo gas used by just pressing the gas and going with the flow.

i've read the past threads on this subject and i saw plenty of random percentages quoted by hypermilers and wannabe's that had as much basis in fact as my 99% statement did.

your assumption that by you going slower, the drivers behind you will slow down and thus save gas is incorrect. the brake/gas/brake thing is negating it. and even if it's only 50% of the cars behind you doing it, they're still using more gas than cruising at the posted speed limit.

(WARNING!!!! sarcasm in progress now!!!!) in normal driving conditions, without going to extreme hypermiling techniques i get the best gas mileage when cruising at 60-65 mph. therefore i feel that it is best for the environment and i should be allowed to drive between 60 and 65 on all roads irregardless of speed limits without penatly. (sarcasm done)

I have no problem with that if thats what you choose to do. In fact, I drive pretty much around that range on local roads also. I was only asking if there was a specific number in regards to what is lawfully the minimum range below the speed limit, not what is considered normal or reasonable. I understand that in the end its all up to the boys in blue, but if its not in big bold numbers, how effectively can it be enforced?

the way i've been taught in driver's ed and even by the STATE COP that i took my driver's exam is, the speed limit is the speed you should be driving if conditions permit. period. point blank. that is from a state where mins are not posted. the speed limit sign is the speed you should be doing, not below, not above. that's how it's enforceable.

and if you want to get into impeding the flow of traffic, stevel did a good job of explaining it by saying that if you're driving below the speed limit and you have a line of cars behind you, you are impeding the flow of traffic.

I replied the first time you posted that. One thing I’ll add is I like how you assume that because I haven’t had a child born yet I haven’t been in an emergency situation related to someone I care for.

ya know.... a year ago I would have responded exactly the same way.... you'll probably find it becomes very very very different when it's you own baby. I did.

the way i've been taught in driver's ed and even by the STATE COP that i took my driver's exam is, the speed limit is the speed you should be driving if conditions permit. period. point blank. that is from a state where mins are not posted. the speed limit sign is the speed you should be doing, not below, not above. that's how it's enforceable.


Regardless of what youve been taught or heard by word of mouth, I'm still asking for written proof if there is anything in specific numbers what a minimum speed is when it isn't posted. If you dont know or cant find it then say that. I wasn't looking for what someone was taught however many years ago, traffic laws do change now and then and speed limits are increased or decreased.

Regardless of what youve been taught or heard by word of mouth, I'm still asking for written proof if there is anything in specific numbers what a minimum speed is when it isn't posted. If you dont know or cant find it then say that. I wasn't looking for what someone was taught however many years ago, traffic laws do change now and then and speed limits are increased or decreased.

and i'd like written proof showing it is legal.

good luck.

i'm sure you;ll come back and post, nope it's no different just to try to prove me wrong, but you'll know that it was. Thanks for putting me down by assuming I want to lie to you.

my generalizations you so eloquently copied above with added comments in it that weren't set off are equal to your generalizations suggesting that none of it is true. prove they are not true. it's as hard for you to fo that as it is for me to prove they are. you're saying most driving behind you are not wasting gas (ala brake/gas/brake/gas -yet i know we all see how many brake lights light up in these situations when you pretty far back in the line, one can only deduce that the next action is gas, which is followed by more breaking). per the hypermiling ways of avoiding braking/stopping/accelerating/etc, this action of brake/gas/brake/gas would use more than the normal amount fo gas used by just pressing the gas and going with the flow.

i've read the past threads on this subject and i saw plenty of random percentages quoted by hypermilers and wannabe's that had as much basis in fact as my 99% statement did.

your assumption that by you going slower, the drivers behind you will slow down and thus save gas is incorrect.
First off where did I say that? You're the one on here making claims about how you know what the fuel economy of 99% of the other drivers are. I post that I find it hard to believe you know this, and your only proof is that I don't happen to know what the fuel economy of other drivers is either. So therefore you can claim whatever you want and these claims are "facts". I posted all the assumptions that would have to be true for you to be right. Anyone on here besides yourself believe they all are?

(WARNING!!!! sarcasm in progress now!!!!) in normal driving conditions, without going to extreme hypermiling techniques i get the best gas mileage when cruising at 60-65 mph. therefore i feel that it is best for the environment and i should be allowed to drive between 60 and 65 on all roads irregardless of speed limits without penatly. (sarcasm done)

with stuff like this, now i know why i got addicted to this forum..... :lmao: :notworthy

someone wanted laws, well here ya go-i also highlighted one of special significance.

§ 3364. Minimum speed regulation.
(a) Impeding movement of traffic prohibited.--Except when reduced speed is necessary for safe
operation or in compliance with law, no person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to
impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.
(b) Slow moving vehicle to drive off roadway.--Except when reduced speed is necessary for safe
operation or in compliance with law, whenever any person drives a vehicle upon a roadway having width
for not more than one lane of traffic in each direction at less than the maximum posted speed and at such a
slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the driver shall, at the first
opportunity when and where it is reasonable and safe to do so and after giving appropriate signal, drive
completely off the roadway and onto the berm or shoulder of the highway. The driver may return to the
roadway after giving appropriate signal only when the movement can be made in safety and so as not to
impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.

i can keep pulling other states if you'd like.

by the way it noted when it is noted, then the safe allowable min speed is to be followed, but i don't think we've argued over it in cases where there IS an actual minimum speed posted. the above applies to where there is not one posted, which is where the problems lie.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/okspeed.pdf

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070508_1_C8_Intra52803

Its all pretty clear here.

with stuff like this, now i know why i got addicted to this forum..... :lmao: :notworthy

well, glad i amused someone! :lmao:

now about driving 65 in a residential area.... :nuts:

i also believe it is to my beneift for mpg's to roll through stop signs and red lights, so i should be able to do this as well without penalty!
:lmao:

For the record I think driving under the speed limit in areas people can't pass at times there is traffic behind you, or coming up on you, is just plain wrong. There doesn't need to be a law about that to come to that conclusion that's just common sense.

For the record I think driving under the speed limit in areas people can't pass at times there is traffic behind you, or coming up on you, is just plain wrong. There doesn't need to be a law about that to come to that conclusion that's just common sense.

Please explain why.

If I drive 1-2 miles under the speed limit in a 40MPH zone, it's perfectly okay. Even if I drive 35 in a 40, it's okay!

Your need for speed doesn't trump my need to avoid a speeding ticket. (And yes, I was pulled over for doing 5 over, quite recently too!)

Anysia?? Scabada?? If you two insist on argueing.. Then I would like your joint permissions, both to promote, and to sell tickets, for the eventual "handbags at dawn" event.. I propose that you both get 5% of profits from said venue, to be deducted 3 weeks after I abscond with all the money.. :naughty: .:lmao: :biggrin:
..

and i'd like written proof showing it is legal.

good luck.

I'm not offering to provide proof of anything. And honestly I'm not sure what you want proof of. Are you asking for proof that it is legal to drive below the speed limit? If so, I think you already provided it yourself. Assuming its not impeding the flow of traffic, it looks to me like it is legal to drive below the speed limit.

I was only asking a question out of curiosity, and ignorance I suppose. I've read everything you've shown me about reasonable flows of traffic and not impeding them, and I understand what you're trying to say. I realize there is a certain amount that below the speed limit it is going to impede traffic flow, but in areas where there isn't anyone impeding anything, is there a specific amount below the speed limit that it becomes illegal?

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/okspeed.pdf

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070508_1_C8_Intra52803

Its all pretty clear here.


yep, and there's even a fine & possible imprisonment (??? ok that's a bit of overkill for first offense, but it's there) listed for not driving in the right lane when proceeding at less than the speed of traffic. but we've established that apparently under no circumstances is a hypermiler driving at or below the speed limit ever out of the right hand lane anyway. oklahoma law is not provide specific details for how they penalize for impeding the flow of traffic on those roads where passing is not an option though, which is where the biggest problem lies.

although i find this part of oklahoma law hysterical:

Note: State law does not provide for the offense of racing on the highway. However, the State code does authorize local governments to enact ordinances or promulgate regulations that prohibit such conduct. Title 11, '22-117(A)

I'm not offering to provide proof of anything. And honestly I'm not sure what you want proof of. Are you asking for proof that it is legal to drive below the speed limit? If so, I think you already provided it yourself. Assuming its not impeding the flow of traffic, it looks to me like it is legal to drive below the speed limit.

I was only asking a question out of curiosity, and ignorance I suppose. I've read everything you've shown me about reasonable flows of traffic and not impeding them, and I understand what you're trying to say. I realize there is a certain amount that below the speed limit it is going to impede traffic flow, but in areas where there isn't anyone impeding anything, is there a specific amount below the speed limit that it becomes illegal?

because i'm not questionning how you are driving on an open road with no vehicles in sight for miles. i'm questioning how you're driving when you're below the speed limit and a line of traffic is building behind you. aka-impeding the flow of traffic.

i could give a flying fig about what you're doing on a deserted stretch of roadway. :lmao:

Anysia?? Scabada?? If you two insist on argueing.. Then I would like your joint permissions, both to promote, and to sell tickets, for the eventual "handbags at dawn" event.. I propose that you both get 5% of profits from said venue, to be deducted 3 weeks after I abscond with all the money.. :naughty: .:lmao: :biggrin:
..

You have my permission. Anysia is ok in my book even though I disagree with a lot of what was posted in this thread. I was just reading a different thread last night that I replied to that I happen to agree with everything they said. In this thread I've probably taken some of the things she said seriously that maybe she wasn't actually serious about. I'm not sure its hard to tell sometimes.

Anyway glad to help provide some entertainment.

the way i've been taught in driver's ed and even by the STATE COP that i took my driver's exam is, the speed limit is the speed you should be driving if conditions permit. period. point blank. that is from a state where mins are not posted. the speed limit sign is the speed you should be doing, not below, not above. that's how it's enforceable.

and if you want to get into impeding the flow of traffic, stevel did a good job of explaining it by saying that if you're driving below the speed limit and you have a line of cars behind you, you are impeding the flow of traffic.

Either the cop you spoke to is wrong (no surprise there) or you're making this up.

Truckers regularly drive below the limit. Going up hills with full load they can't maintain full speed so they drop below the limit despite giving all the gas. (I know this from experience.) Truckers don't get speeding tickets for driving slow. Neither will a driver of a regular car.

So here you go, recent proof that driving under the speed limit can kill:

Town mourns 5 cheerleaders killed in fiery crash
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/28/teens.crash.ap/index.html

Either the cop you spoke to is wrong (no surprise there) or you're making this up.

Truckers regularly drive below the limit. Going up hills with full load they can't maintain full speed so they drop below the limit despite giving all the gas. (I know this from experience.) Truckers don't get speeding tickets for driving slow. Neither will a driver of a regular car.

You obviously didnt read:

the speed limit is the speed you should be driving if conditions permit.

Either the cop you spoke to is wrong (no surprise there) or you're making this up.

Truckers regularly drive below the limit. Going up hills with full load they can't maintain full speed so they drop below the limit despite giving all the gas. (I know this from experience.) Truckers don't get speeding tickets for driving slow. Neither will a driver of a regular car.

aw, crud, now i have to go look up the trucking laws.... them their guys have a different set of stuff to abide by. but wait, when said truck accelerates and has a hard time controlling that as well and thus ends up above the speed limit, do they not get speeding tickets either?

dang, i wanna be a truck driver now. they get all the perks. they CAN have it both ways, and every way in between! :lmao:

anyway, in case you missed it, i quoted it from penndot's website where it talks about minimum speeds and such, so yep, it is the truth. it's not as well publicized as speeding is, but it definitely does exist. maybe in ny and nj the laws are different or more accepting. i didn't look theirs up yet. heck, in ok, they can race per the state as long as the local jurisdiction doesn't state otherwise... :Lmao:

because i'm not questionning how you are driving on an open road with no vehicles in sight for miles. i'm questioning how you're driving when you're below the speed limit and a line of traffic is building behind you. aka-impeding the flow of traffic.

i could give a flying fig about what you're doing on a deserted stretch of roadway. :lmao:


Well that is what I am questioning, and the question still remains. I think its safe to say you don't have an answer for me.

If you're questioning how I drive, I've already answered you:

I still dont see how its absurd to think its alright to go below the speed limit in certain areas, when its not impeding the flow of traffic. I DID say its excessive to drive 15 below.

I have no problem with that if thats what you choose to do. In fact, I drive pretty much around that range on local roads also.

and i'd like written proof showing it is legal.

good luck.

First of all, the burden of proof is on you, not on the person who asked you to provide proof. You don't avoid proving your point by asking someone to prove theirs!

Secondly, the only laws that provide penalties for driving under the speed limit are minimum speed laws, and generic laws that prohibit "obstruction of traffic." And even in places with minimum speed laws, the minimum speed is often 45 in a 65 MPH zone, giving you plenty of room. Furthermore, driving the speed limit, or a few MPH below isn't obstructing traffic. One person tried to convince me that there's a law in California that says you have to pull over if you're going slower than the line of cars behind you, even if you're driving the limit because you're obstructing traffic. Hmm, so if you're driving at 100MPH behind me, I have to pull over to let you pass? Unless your vehicle has lights and sirens, that isn't happening. It is, in a word, absurd.

First of all, the burden of proof is on you, not on the person who asked you to provide proof. You don't avoid proving your point by asking someone to prove theirs!

Secondly, the only laws that provide penalties for driving under the speed limit are minimum speed laws, and generic laws that prohibit "obstruction of traffic." And even in places with minimum speed laws, the minimum speed is often 45 in a 65 MPH zone, giving you plenty of room. Furthermore, driving the speed limit, or a few MPH below isn't obstructing traffic. One person tried to convince me that there's a law in California that says you have to pull over if you're going slower than the line of cars behind you, even if you're driving the limit because you're obstructing traffic. Hmm, so if you're driving at 100MPH behind me, I have to pull over to let you pass? Unless your vehicle has lights and sirens, that isn't happening. It is, in a word, absurd.


see below. honestly don't know why you're being so combative... and i DID indeed provide proof. but noone has provided proof to the contrary yet.


and i bet that the same exists in ca and that's where the person who was telling you that was coming from. i doubt they'd be able to prove you were impeding the flow of traffic for one car, but when there are multiple cars lined up behind you, THEN i'm pretty darn sure they can.

from penndot rules/regulations for the road:
§ 3364. Minimum speed regulation.
(a) Impeding movement of traffic prohibited.--Except when reduced speed is necessary for safe
operation or in compliance with law, no person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to
impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.
(b) Slow moving vehicle to drive off roadway.--Except when reduced speed is necessary for safe
operation or in compliance with law, whenever any person drives a vehicle upon a roadway having width
for not more than one lane of traffic in each direction at less than the maximum posted speed and at such a
slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the driver shall, at the first
opportunity when and where it is reasonable and safe to do so and after giving appropriate signal, drive
completely off the roadway and onto the berm or shoulder of the highway. The driver may return to the
roadway after giving appropriate signal only when the movement can be made in safety and so as not to
impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.

aw, crud, now i have to go look up the trucking laws.... them their guys have a different set of stuff to abide by. but wait, when said truck accelerates and has a hard time controlling that as well and thus ends up above the speed limit, do they not get speeding tickets either?

dang, i wanna be a truck driver now. they get all the perks. they CAN have it both ways, and every way in between! :lmao:

anyway, in case you missed it, i quoted it from penndot's website where it talks about minimum speeds and such, so yep, it is the truth. it's not as well publicized as speeding is, but it definitely does exist. maybe in ny and nj the laws are different or more accepting. i didn't look theirs up yet. heck, in ok, they can race per the state as long as the local jurisdiction doesn't state otherwise... :Lmao:


I did read it, and I can tell you that you go in front of a judge and give him that law as an excuse for speeding, he will laugh you out the door and tell you go pay your fine.

Remember the key words are:
at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic,

5-10 MPH below isn't impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. Unless you're causing a traffic jam, you're not "impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic." Traffic is still moving, it's just moving at a slower speed.

So here you go, recent proof that driving under the speed limit can kill:

question i have here:

was it due to more the inexperience of the driver when the girl was passing the slow-moving van? the article stated that the SUV may have over-corrected after passing the van.

OR

was it the van's fault for speeding up in a passing zone, knowing that the girls were trying to pass the van?

see below. honestly don't know why you're being so combative... and i DID indeed provide proof. but noone has provided proof to the contrary yet.


and i bet that the same exists in ca and that's where the person who was telling you that was coming from. i doubt they'd be able to prove you were impeding the flow of traffic for one car, but when there are multiple cars lined up behind you, THEN i'm pretty darn sure they can.


anysia, I know all about that law. I sometimes drive commercial vehicles interstate, and I have to know that rule of the road.

The intent of those sorts of laws are for long tractor trailers, doubles and triples etc who have trouble keeping up to pull over occasionally to let vehicles pass.

It is not intended for the passenger car driver who wants to drive 5-10MPH below the speed limit.

Incidentally, if you were to apply that law in its strictest sense, every single car in a traffic jam would be getting a ticket, because they are impeding the flow of traffic.

I am yet to hear of ONE person who has EVER gotten a ticket for going below the limit. I know of quite a few on this forum who have gotten speeding tickets, multiple times even.

It therefore stands to reason that going below the limit will keep the tickets and the cops away from you.

I rest my case.

I did read it, and I can tell you that you go in front of a judge and give him that law as an excuse for speeding, he will laugh you out the door and tell you go pay your fine.

Remember the key words are:


5-10 MPH below isn't impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. Unless you're causing a traffic jam, you're not "impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic." Traffic is still moving, it's just moving at a slower speed.

if you have a line of vehicles behind you and noone in front of you-(as has been pointed out-you at front of the pack), you are indeed impeding the flow of traffic. traffic=cars behind you, impeding exemplified by the fact that you are the sole person holding up said line of cars, aka traffic.

5-10 miles below is impeding just as much as 5-10 miles above is speeding.

please see portion that also notes "at less than the maximum posted speed". if you are driving below that speed and there is a line of cars, you are impeding. hence why drivers in pa HAVE been pulled over and ticketed for such behavior.

anysia, I know all about that law. I sometimes drive commercial vehicles interstate, and I have to know that rule of the road.

The intent of those sorts of laws are for long tractor trailers, doubles and triples etc who have trouble keeping up to pull over occasionally to let vehicles pass.

It is not intended for the passenger car driver who wants to drive 5-10MPH below the speed limit.

Incidentally, if you were to apply that law in its strictest sense, every single car in a traffic jam would be getting a ticket, because they are impeding the flow of traffic.

I am yet to hear of ONE person who has EVER gotten a ticket for going below the limit. I know of quite a few on this forum who have gotten speeding tickets, multiple times even.

It therefore stands to reason that going below the limit will keep the tickets and the cops away from you.

I rest my case.

the quote i made regarding those laws were applying to regular vehicle traffic, NOT commercial. and it does very much so apply to ALL vehicles on the road.

every single car in a traffic jam would not get a ticket. the person CAUSING the traffic jam would get the ticket in this instance. if it can be determined who is causing it.

in cases wehre you have one driver blatantly driving below the speed limit and a visible line of vehicles behind them, they ARE the cause, they ARE impeding the flow of traffic.

So here you go, recent proof that driving under the speed limit can kill:


Here's proof that speed kills (or at least seriously injures):

http://dailysally.blogspot.com/2007/05/governor-corzine-dead-wrong.html

I lost over half my blood, broke 15 bones in 18 places. I spent 8 days in Intensive Care where a ventilator was breathing for me. It took a remarkable team of doctors and a series of miracles to save my life

the quote i made regarding those laws were applying to regular vehicle traffic, NOT commercial. and it does very much so apply to ALL vehicles on the road.

every single car in a traffic jam would not get a ticket. the person CAUSING the traffic jam would get the ticket in this instance. if it can be determined who is causing it.

in cases wehre you have one driver blatantly driving below the speed limit and a visible line of vehicles behind them, they ARE the cause, they ARE impeding the flow of traffic.


The laws apply to commercial vehicles as well. I know, because I regularly drive commercial vehicles through PA.

The laws apply to commercial vehicles as well. I know, because I regularly drive commercial vehicles through PA.

excuse me for miss-phrasing that. see second sentence where i specified it applies to all vehilces on the road.

it is called the "rules of the road". it does apply to passneger, commercial, motorcycle, etc. it is not exclusive to commercial. it is not title "rules of the road as applied to commercial vehicles". it is the rules of the road for EVERYONE.

and no matter what, if you see a long line of cars behind you in an area where passing is not allowed AND you have a safe place to pull off, it's a common courtesy to do so. :yes: so whether or not in state a you are violating a law and in state b you are not, it is still common courtesy to move over and let them pass.

Here's proof that speed kills (or at least seriously injures):

http://dailysally.blogspot.com/2007/05/governor-corzine-dead-wrong.html

sounds to me that if going a certain speed is that frightening to anyone, they should most definitely hang up the car keys and buy themselves a bike or walk. :yes:

if you are that paranoid or want to save gas that bad that you insist on going below the stated speed for the road, you're better off not driving.
(discalimer/note: this in no way saying that the same shouldn't be said for a speeder as well. so please do not imply that i'm saying only driving below the speed is not tolerable and that speeding is.)

the details about the driving laws are boring.

can we get this back on the more interesting track where people were claiming to know how to calculate the FE of 99% of the rest of other vehicles out there? That was more amusing.

note~i'm beginning to think we all missed our call to be a lawyer. :lmao:

the details about the driving laws are boring.

can we get this back on the more interesting track where people were claiming to know how to calculate the FE of 99% of the rest of other vehicles out there? That was more amusing.

only if we can also revisit the claim that 99.5% of drivers could care less about saving fuel. (stated by a hypemiler.) i figured my claim was valid based off of that claim! :yes:

I still don't agree with the logic behind that but I guess I share the amusement of this thread so sounds great.

I still don't agree with the logic behind that but I guess I share the amusement of this thread so sounds great.

dang, that just isn't giving me enough to work with!

might be just about time for our "closing arguments". :lmao:

once xcel comes back, then i'm sure the firestorm will start once again.... :lurk: :nuts:

once xcel comes back, then i'm sure the firestorm will start once again.... :lurk: :nuts:

can't wait! he's the best for this stuff! :banana: you can always count on him to stir the pot, especially now that's it's back to meager simmer! :lmao:

oh, you're as guilty as he is..... :naughty:

in fact, you brought a thread back from the dead, just to try and start more with him..... i remember seeing it...... :yes: :paranoid:

oh, you're as guilty as he is..... :naughty:

in fact, you brought a thread back from the dead, just to try and start more with him..... i remember seeing it...... :yes: :paranoid:

IT WAS TOO FUNNY!

aw, crud caps lock....

anyway, ask stevel, i was up forever last night reading through old posts. it was cracking me up! then i realized how many ended up locked, which made it even funnier! :notworthy

that one was particularly funny because it showed alot of old people in old form.

oh,, i can bring other things back from the dead too! but they'd be hysterical! i don't know how much fo that i can handle!:lmao:

Wow you did all that and I thought I was wasting excessive time on this thread. I was busy enough laughing at the claimed facts within just this thread to have time for that.

if you have a line of vehicles behind you and noone in front of you-(as has been pointed out-you at front of the pack), you are indeed impeding the flow of traffic. traffic=cars behind you, impeding exemplified by the fact that you are the sole person holding up said line of cars, aka traffic.

5-10 miles below is impeding just as much as 5-10 miles above is speeding.

please see portion that also notes "at less than the maximum posted speed". if you are driving below that speed and there is a line of cars, you are impeding. hence why drivers in pa HAVE been pulled over and ticketed for such behavior.


Not if there are min and max speed limits.

I was pulled over once for going to slow at 3 am on Inst. 40 east. I had thrown a rod. It ws rattling like crazy. I was just trying to limp it home. And was going for the shoulder anytime a car came up behind me. State Trooper nabbed me thinking he had a drunk. One listen to the engine and he knew why I was going slow slow. He asked me to get on the old hwy. Well that was going to add about 20 miles to the trip limping the car home. He went on his way and I stayed on the super slab. And the min posted limit is 40 mph on that road. :)

Here's proof that speed kills (or at least seriously injures):

http://dailysally.blogspot.com/2007/05/governor-corzine-dead-wrong.html

Hmmm, that would apply, IF THIS WAS A SPEEDING IS BAD THREAD. :rolleyes:

So of course no one on drive accord speeds.

Scabada wrote:-

>>>So of course no one on drive accord speeds. <<<

Good grief sir! of course not! perish the very thought! Go wash your mouth out at once!!

Speaking only for myself. I am without doubt the worlds best, most experienced, considerate driver! in fact, as a human being, I only have one fault.. erm, I tell lies sometimes.. :lmao: :biggrin: :banana:
.

james,

some lie more than others.... you know, we have a resident imposter on here that posts regularly.... :stupid: :paranoid:

Scabada wrote:-

>>>So of course no one on drive accord speeds. <<<

Good grief sir! of course not! perish the very thought! Go wash your mouth out at once!!

Speaking only for myself. I am without doubt the worlds best, most experienced, considerate driver! in fact, as a human being, I only have one fault.. erm, I tell lies sometimes.. :lmao: :biggrin: :banana:
.
:lmao:

Scabada wrote:-

>>>So of course no one on drive accord speeds. <<<

Good grief sir! of course not! perish the very thought! Go wash your mouth out at once!!

Speaking only for myself. I am without doubt the worlds best, most experienced, considerate driver! in fact, as a human being, I only have one fault.. erm, I tell lies sometimes.. :lmao: :biggrin: :banana:
.

;)

(WARNING!!! sarcasm ahead!!!!) now, we can't all be a hypermiler though. so uless you've signed on to that, you are by far not the best, most experienced, and considerate driver! i believe we established that earlier. (end sarcasm)