Yeah, I feel like I'm cheating on the Accord, but we just got a 2001.5 VW Passat GLX V6. So far, I like driving it more than the Honda:paranoid: Oh no, I really am cheating. I don't expect the VW to be anywhere as reliable as the Honda but for what it is, I also never expected it to be so impeccably engineered. I mean, it has memory seats and mirrors (linked to remote), automatic wipers, an automatic mirror, an 8way power passenger seat, power folding mirrors (this is too trick), an automatic tilt down passenger mirror feature and gobs of other nice things (lighted steering wheel controls, telescoping rack, an onboard computer display, rear sunshade etc. etc, I could go on forever. I don't know, but compared to the Accord it just feels like a German Luxury seadan. Well wait, it is. It handles better than the Honda and is generally just more fun to drive (triptronic!). I really like the exhuast sound too. The little things like the switchblade remote and Blue/Red lighted interior makes me grin, something the Honda never did. I STILL think the VTEC 3.0 in the Accord is faster in a straight line, and sounds better at higher RPM,than the 2.8 DOHC VVT engine in the VW but the Passat has much more low end torque. As far as the interior goes, the only upside the Accord has is a 6disc stereo in the dashboard, as well as a MUCH more intuitive automatic climate system. Like I said I can go on and on about the Vdubs interior - an adjusting center armrest, an AC vent in the glove box, articulating headrests, auto-up windows, 8-speaker monsoon audio with volume that fades in and out - but I am not the one to bore with my incessant thoughts. I still love the Honda, but I am completely impressed with what VW is doing. I realize the car was a hefty premium over the Accord when new, and I should really be comparing the car to the Acura 3.2TL, but even then it has many things Japanese cars don't have. I never bought into the "German engineering" garbage I've heard from VW commercials for years but I think I finally discovered what it's all about. ;)

congrats on the purchase....

let us know how it performs in the long run reliability wise.... :wave:

I'll have to agree with you regarding the German engineering of their cars. They are very solid and feel very well put together. They have a lot of nice little touches here and there. Before I got my Accord, I went every so often to the VW dealer to drool over the GTI's and Jetta's. I was always impressed with how solid their cars were. When you closed the door, it made a nice solid "thud" noise. And their attention to detail is very nice too. I just wish they'd extend their "German engineering" into the reliability department.

it's a shame really that they don't.....

if they did, they would be a huge competitor to honda and toyota at that point.....

As a former Passat owner, I can relate to many of your positive observations. No doubt, the VeeDub certainly does present of very good first impression. I too appreciated the many thoughtful touches sprinkled throughout the interior. The driving experience was also very impressive, but in a manner totally unlike the Accord. To use a football analogy, the Accord is nimble and light on its feet like a running back, where the Passat was solid and responsive like a linebacker.

But as the miles started to pile up, things started to unravel. Even with vigilant routine maintenence, the failures became increasingly spectacular and the repairs expensive. Two months after I sold it, the new owner unhappily called back to inform me the ABS controller had just been replaced ($$$$$$). And while I was sympathetic to his plight, I was also secretly relieved that I was no longer on the hook for the storied German engineering that was starting to betray what was otherwise a very good product.

Best of luck... :)

When I purchased my Accord last year, I was debating pretty hard between the Accord and the Passat. The Passat was tough to pass up with all of the available features compared to the Accord, but of course the price was higher and I knew it had a lot of features that I didn't need. With the addition of a few OEM accessories, the Accord provides pretty much all that I need.

Ultimately, I decided to go with the Accord because its a much more reliable car that will hold its value much better in the long run. Plus VWs are notorius for overinflated repair costs, which definately become an issue over the long term as Egon mentioned. Overall, I couldn't be happier with my Accord, even without memory seats and so forth.

My sister has a loaded 99 passat and comparatively its right there or better in every aspect except reliablity. Not that it's been bad, I've just owned japanese stuff almost exlusively and am used to not having to fix them. Have fun, they do drive awesome!

As others have noted, and as a former Passat owner, they do drive very nice. I wish you many miles and may years of faithful service!

You might want to save this link.....I got the feeling it will come in handy.

www.ecstuning.com

Congrats and good luck with your new purchase. I had a 01.5 5-speed GLX. It had some nice features and was a really good highway car. Check out vwvortex.com and the B5 forums (roughly the 98-2003 Passats).

As a former Passat owner, I can relate to many of your positive observations. No doubt, the VeeDub certainly does present of very good first impression. I too appreciated the many thoughtful touches sprinkled throughout the interior. The driving experience was also very impressive, but in a manner totally unlike the Accord. To use a football analogy, the Accord is nimble and light on its feet like a running back, where the Passat was solid and responsive like a linebacker.

But as the miles started to pile up, things started to unravel. Even with vigilant routine maintenence, the failures became increasingly spectacular and the repairs expensive. Two months after I sold it, the new owner unhappily called back to inform me the ABS controller had just been replaced ($$$$$$). And while I was sympathetic to his plight, I was also secretly relieved that I was no longer on the hook for the storied German engineering that was starting to betray what was otherwise a very good product.

Best of luck... :)

What problems did you have? I know that the timmingbelt/water cooler replacement is going to cost a pretty penny given the entire front bumper/grill needs to be removed.

Control arms........eight of them, 2 upper/2 lower per side. The squeaks will let you know when.....every 30-40k........considered by VW to be a normal wear and tear item. Great design on the B5 and 5.5's (not to mention the Audi siblings).

Another handy site - www.dub-tech.com these guys are VW techs who help greatly.

Use the PassatWorld forums, vwvortex for assistance, don't forget to use Audiworld also as the A4's and A6's of your year are the same vehicle for all intents and purposes. Some great write-ups on timing belt changes and most all maintenance.

Somewhere I saved a link on the most difficult front end alignment vehicles....I think they were for some exotic AND the 8 control arm arrangement you now have. I'll look arouond for it when I can.

:lurk:

this could get interesting.....

many owners of vw/audi shooting themselves in the foot prety quick after the purchase..... :paranoid:

Audi/VW interior and fit and finish is pretty freaking good. My sister drives a taureg (I think it's a 2003 or 2004), my other sister drives a 2001 passat, and my mother has a 2003 A4 quattro. All of them feel really freaking solid. They all also handle really well and feel very stable. They have also all had a number of reliability issues. Most of the issues are related to electronics, but the A4 had it's oil sludge up and killed the engine at 70-some thousand miles. It has really long service intervals, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me given that it's turbocharged. It was replaced under warranty. The passat had an alternator go out, and nearly all of the interior electronics are really freaking glitchy now. The radio doesn't turn on a lot of the time, the windows stop working randomly, etc. If they improved their reliability a little bit I would seriously consider an A4 (I love those cars). Either way, they are always a pleasure to drive when they are functioning, and never have any rattles or squeeks like my 1-year-old accord does. Though, they are just different cars all together. If I were whipping my car through 90 degree turns the VW would feel better, but the sweeping, natural, carving turns that I usually have fun on feel a lot better in my accord.

Audi/VW interior and fit and finish is pretty freaking good.

yeah, but if not cared for PERFECTLY, after 70K miles or so, sometimes sooner, most of the interior trim such as door grab handles and such, wear absolutely terribly. long term, interiors are bad. but they are assembled great. major pita to take apart, very tight fitting.

They have also all had a number of reliability issues. Most of the issues are related to electronics, but the A4 had it's oil sludge up and killed the engine at 70-some thousand miles.

they have reliability issues in every area, not even mostly electronics. massive oil leaks and water pump failures very very common. suspension wears out regularly. pinion bearings on the 5 mt quattro at least are problematic.....

It has really long service intervals, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me given that it's turbocharged.

yeah, turbo engine = 10K oil change intervals, with dino oil, and only 3.7 quarts when changed with filter. duh, that didn't work.

If they improved their reliability a little bit I would seriously consider an A4 (I love those cars).

but they're not. :lmao: I'm waiting for the new wonderful modular turbo/header contraption to not work. the integrated bypass valve already doesn't work. :lmao:

exactly the problem... reliability is questionable at best. if you don't mind spending alot of time without your car, no big deal. :lmao:

i'm married to the audi tech who owns the hondas. that says alot right there. :yes:

Do you take a lot of crap at work Stevel for owning Hondas?

Do you take a lot of crap at work Stevel for owning Hondas?

nope. when they ask why I didn't buy an A4, I say because I don't like cars that will break alot.... then they all say, "ok, good point". :lmao:

besides, i really do like people who buy audis. it's kind of "job security" for stevel. and the worse the reliability of the cars, the more job security. :thmsup: the more insane and odd the fixes are, the better it pays. great deal if you ask me.

also great vehicles during drastic temp change season. nice surge in repairs=better paychecks. :lmao:

Well the electronic gremlins in the Passat mainly stem from water ingress into the cabin, shorting the CCM (Comfort Convenience Module) which controls the lights/power windows/alarm/locks/keyless entry/key in door auto close windows. You see, there are little drains for the moonroof, and they get clogged very easily (near the door seals there are little nipples that need to be pinched to unclog). Water backs up in these drains and gets itself into the car, in turn frying the CCM, which starts the beginning of random alarms, the car locking itself, raising it's windows/sunroof randomly, etc. That's a hefty item to replace right therel. I checked for water ingress on the floor where the CCM is located and it's dry. I also ran water through all the drains (under the battery, sunroof, door sills, trunk) to see if they worked, and they did. I have the vehicle history of this car and the owner had to replace both of the CV joints at 60,000 miles (a major problem for the Passat), as well as have the drivers side visor mirror wirring disconnected (wiring was shorting and kept tripping fuse which controlled horn, Climatronic, radio). So I have no homelink, oh well. Also, they needed to have the TCM (transmission control module) reflashed due to a fault code. Did I mention the Passat likes premium gas and synthetic oil changes? Yeah, I'll only do the latter.

Good luck with the passat, they are very nice cars.

Sadly the electrical problems can't all be traced back to water getting into the cabin and shorting out the ccm, not that it isn't a problem. In 100k miles we replaced the hazard light switch, the trunk latch, the master power window switch, had the wiring on the ECU reconnected, and repaired the ABS module.
Non electrical replacements were the power window switch (the knob broke), the hand brake cover, upper control arms and outer tie rod ends, vacuum lines and a few connectors, dip stick, engine coolant outlet, camshaft seal, and drivers power window regulator.
That might sound like a long list but it isn't that bad, many of the items are warranty covered, most of them are common failures so it shows that VW needs to tighten their QC department. Everything else has just been regular scheduled maintenance.
Have fun with the car, it really is built well and drives great!

exactly the problem... reliability is questionable at best. if you don't mind spending alot of time without your car, no big deal. :lmao:This is not necc. true. I had a 2000 Passat and drove the hell out of it and never had a problem. As long as you take care of it, do preventive maintenance like you should do on any car, you won't have problems unless you got a lemon.

P.S. Mine had the "funner" 1.8T engine, chipped to about ~190 hp. Was _very_ fun to drive, and the car felt much "tighter" than my US-built Accord. Sadly, I lost it to a driver that decided to run a red light a good 5 seconds after it turned red. Although it was totaled, I walked out the car unscathed - it did it's job very well. And it was a 5MT wagon, too -- much missed :(

Yeah they are supposedly the safest midsized car around. I just noticed a few days ago that it has those head curtain airbags (accord doesn't on the 6th gen).

Anyways, I want to replace the timming belt and waterpump on the car (women who bought it from said the car may need a new watercooler, which is driven by the timming belt). No big deal, until I caught a look at the price: $960! Yeah, the entire front end of the Passat has to be removed to get to the belts and waterpump.

Yeah they are supposedly the safest midsized car around. I just noticed a few days ago that it has those head curtain airbags (accord doesn't on the 6th gen).

Anyways, I want to replace the timming belt and waterpump on the car (women who bought it from said the car may need a new watercooler, which is driven by the timming belt). No big deal, until I caught a look at the price: $960! Yeah, the entire front end of the Passat has to be removed to get to the belts and waterpump.

yeah, that's probably about right. A4 with the same 2.8L we charge 7 hours for that job. be sure they also replace the thermostat as it is cheap and located BEHIND the timing belt.

the front end does not get removed. the front bumper gets removed, then the "lock carrier" gets pulled forward six to 10 inches or so, but not removed.

be sure to get this job done though. we've seen many many of those water pumps fail..... and nothing good happens then. $$$ goes way up..............

I congratulate you on your purchase but extended warranty is in order.

Car has 10yr/100,000mile extended warranty plan.

...and just to update that warranty has saved my ass.

The Passat needed a new oil cooler ($700) and a new gas tank/fuel pump assembly (previous owner drove with blownout tire down the highway, punctured tank filler, $1,700). I guess the latter problem wasn't really the Passat's fault. But you know what? I still enjoy and look forward to jumping in the car every morning and driving it. From the subtle "Please fasten seatbelt" message, and the flashing icicle when the temp. is below 39F, the car has become part of me (doesn't that sound corny??). Everything is overdesigned, and I appreciate that. Open door, seat moves forward, reverse, mirror tilts for me, monsoon audio fades in/out. I love this car.

Heres a list of why I have come to appreciate and believe in German design and engineering:

1. The storage compartment for the manual under the steering wheel so you don't have to clutter up the glove box.
2. The little sun visor just above the rear view mirror.
FYI... the "3rd sunvisor" is not a sun visor at all. It barely blocks the sun.
It's actually meant to be pulled all the way forward, towards your rearview mirror. At night,
a passenger can have the reading light on and this nifty little piece of plastic trim actually blocks
the glare from the dome light onto the mirror so that you can continue to see out the back.
3. Checking the tire pressure without take the caps off.
4. Monsoon audio that fades in/out, beeps when put to lowest setting (find this nice for some reason)
5. Heated windshield squirters.
6. Air vents under the front seat heat rear seat passengers' feet.
7. You can tip open the sunroof and keep the shade closed to keep the noise down - shade has integrated vents
8. A/C vent in glove compartment
9. Cool blue/red lighting
10. The visor extends from the stalk a couple of
inches to get that pesky sun out of your eyes when it shining in the side window.
11. The little electric water pump that circulates water thru the engine/radiator (V6) to help
cool it down after you shut the engine off.
12. Get out of the car with all the windows down and the sunroof open. Insert the key in the door
lock and turn it to the right(lock position) and hold it. The windows all go up and then the sunroof closes.
13. The steel plate covering the door lock mechanism.
14. Auto folding mirrors (COOL!) for parking in tight spots, auto flip down passenger mirror for reverse
15. The fact that the center armrest is also vertically adjustable. It uses a ratcheting mechanism.
I think there are 3 or 4 "clicks" in the vertical before it will return to the lowest position.
Total armrest comfort!!!
16. You can have the temperatures display in Celsius by pushing the Auto and Econ buttons at the same time.
17. Daytime running lights look cool by using low beam projectors, not high beams
18. The ability to open the sunroof and windows from the outside with the key . During the long, hot summer
it lets the hot air out before you climb in.
19. Auto-up/down front windows - nice
20. once the car is running you can't turn the key and re-engage the starter. Also, the radio doesn't cut out when turning the car from ON to START.
21. There's a clip on the trunk floor mat that can be used to hold the mat up while you remove
the tire from the storage well. The clip hooks to the rubber gasket on top of the trunk opening.
This isn't mentioned in the owner's manual - seems there's a lot that isn't mentioned in the owner's manual.
22. The parking lights flash when opening the trunk from the remote, don't know why I think this is cool, but it seems classy.
23. All of the wood on the doors/tiptronic shifter is REAL
24. Projector beam headlights AND foglights (looks extremely sophisticated)
25. Rear mounted LED brake light
26. Cool switchblade remote
27. Auto opening/closing sunroof with "cruise position"
28. Pinch protection for all windows/sunroof

Cool, glad its working out for you. lots of interesting little touches.

Let me finally be the first be say PICS PLEASE.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/tuolumne/n1036560382_30076649_7754.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/tuolumne/100_2579.jpg
I love the arched roof and that chrome!

I think I'm going to buy these 16" Vancouvers. They look o so good to me on the Passat.

http://media.dealerfusion.com/images/001824-P37755A.jpg
http://media.dealerfusion.com/images/001350-9336.jpg

Anymore pictures if you're new car?

You a pilot?

You make me want a VW again....

~must resist~

Is your warranty from the date of original purchase, or your purchase? If you bought it, how much was it if you don't mind my asking?

About the wheels, I don't know if you've considered these but my step-mother's 07 Passat 2.0T Sport has some nice wheels on it. I'm unsure of the style's name though.

Here's a pic.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r74/Accordlover_2006/PB180008.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r74/Accordlover_2006/PB180013.jpg

Just thought I'd share.

Damn, I love the B6 Passat. It's - so - perfect. Everything from the electronic parking brake to the hill hold assist (this is too cool), to those bi-xenon steerable lights to the umbrella drains in the doors!!

But if I recall, a loaded 3.6 4-motion w/ navigation/dynaudio can run upwards of $38,000. Damn Euro/Dollar value*sigh*

The car came with an extended warranty from the other owner. I picked it up for about $9,000, had 84,000K. I must say, even though this car has many problems (not unlike a domestic), do not take that to mean that this a poorly built car; I am astonished by the levels of build quality Volkswagen constructs their cars with. Everything from the body tolerances to the interior (which doesn't have one piece of cheap feeling material anywhere). They may not be the most reliable, but damn do they build them well. I guess the Mexican build Jettas have even more problems, but their build quality still seems to be above a Honda Civic (sorry guys, but I think it's true, especially the last generation). My Passat was made in Emden Germany, though, which makes me kind of happy for some bizzare reason.

I agree on the quality. It's fabulous, but I have an issue with the fact that on my step mom's 06 Jetta that she traded for her Passat, before 40k the odo went out, and the car became TMU; VW gave no compensation for this even though it negatively affects resale, the keys/locks had to be replaced due to a computer problem, the A/C went out and the worst, when the engine overheated due to faulty temp sensor.

The new Passat has 17k on it already, and has been to the dealer for a gauge cluster issue similar to the Jetta's (but didn't loose the miles this time) and has an issue with the service soon message not going away even after numerous dealer attempts to get rid of it.

I like the Passat a lot. The silver with the black leather interior is sharp. The spoiler looks good too. I just don't know if I want to go from Function over Form with Honda to Form over Function with VW.

I know what you mean, accordlover, and if it weren't for my extended warranty, I don't know how I'd feel towards the Passat right now. On one hand it's a fabulously designed and built car, on the other it is about as reliable as a Ford. One area where vw doesn't do too well is in the electrical department. It's all due to bad factory splices, which corrode over time. Worse, in the Passat, the comfort control module can be flooded if any water ever gets into the cabin as it's right under the drivers seat, not too great of a location. I've read of some people getting their 1.8T's to over 200,000 miles (with regular synthetic oil changes!) on passatworld, and many 2.8s in the 170,000 range, so I guess it's at least possible to get these cars to that mileage (after you've changed both cv boots, but that's another story!). As for VWoA, good luck!

I cannot even imagine how much money was spent to get the car to 200k miles lol.

As far as the reliability being compared to a ford, my Grandmother's Mercury Sable (1999) of which I just inherited since her passing, has never been towed, has 83k miles, and there's only been 5 problems in that time period; all covered under warranty. - Trouble free since 74k.

I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of a Sterling; remember those? Fancy English Acura/Honda cars. Talk about the electrical plague! - Maybe even a Yugo? :lmao:

I think the 7th Generation Accord is just as nice of a vehicle as your Passat in all honesty. I couldn't compare a 6G to it, as it's an older car age wise (debuted in 97 etc).

Well, the B5 Passat should be compared to the 7th generation, even more so when you consider that the Passat is the car that Honda set out to benchmark when they designed the 7th gen. Everything from the telescoping wheel to the European styling. Still though, keep in mind that the B5 Passat debuted the same year as the 6th gen Accord (1997), so that says something. The B5.5 model that I have is virtually the same car from 1997 with different lights. I don't think the car is quite as nicely done inside as the Passat, still. Ergonomically it may be superior but quality wise VW stills wins. I mean, every ac vent is lighted with red LEDs for crying out loud. Ha.

6th generation started in 1998.

The only and I mean only gripe about my 7th Gen is the steering wheel. Its simply Buick size and not sporty at all.

6th generation started in 1998.

We're speaking in terms of debut; when it came out....

The only and I mean only gripe about my 7th Gen is the steering wheel. Its simply Buick size and not sporty at all.

The new ones are smaller I think?

The new ones are smaller I think?\

That is true, the 8th gen has a much better steering wheel. While kind of ugly in style, its the perfect size.

Passat B5 is based off of the Audi A4 architecture and debuted in Germany and across Europe in 1997. The A4 went to the B6 platform in 2002 while the Passat went until 2005.5 on the B5 platform.

Passat B5 is based off of the Audi A4 architecture and debuted in Germany and across Europe in 1997. The A4 went to the B6 platform in 2002 while the Passat went until 2005.5 on the B5 platform.

Actually, the B5 platform was the last time the A4 and the Passat shared. Starting with the B6, the Passat went to transversely mounted engines (west-east) and the A4 on its new platform continued to use the longitudinally mounted engines (north-south) as the rest of the Audi line does. I think the platforms use different AWD systems also.

There is something about the Euro sport-sedans that is subtle but brings a lot of driving pleasure. My 2001 Saab 9-5 (with 97K) still smells like new inside - a rich leather smell that my EX-L does not match. It has real burled walnut on the dash, full info display, Harmon-Kardon 9 speaker stereo, heated front AND rear seats (memory and cooled in front), and the best driving position I can imagine. Oh yeah, and a turbo. It is an awesome road car, and is quieter than my Accord, to my suprise. But ya gotta plan on $1200-1500/yr to keep one of these Euro's running right and hope you don't get a lemon... so now I keep it just for those long road trips and weekend drives, while my Accord racks up the miles, and smiles, without worries....

Yep, I test drove a 06 BMW 325I once and it was sublime handling and manners. The way the engine felt as smooth at 3k or at 6k was just marvelous. Indeed worth every cent if I could afford a bimmer.

makes me want to get another vw, but then i just think about all that German plastic.
VW has the worst plastic, it is brittle, it discolors (the headlights are bad about that) it breaks very easy, and probably some other bad stuff... like the plastic water pumps they had for the early mk4 Jetta's, that exploded from time to time. :lmao:

but VW's are so much more fun to drive than Honda's.
I drive my bros 2000 Jetta TDI 5-Speed every chance i get.:)

Don't know what you mean about cheap plastic, steve? Every interior bit is coated with a soft touch finish. The engine? Looks like it's metal to me;) I think this car is BUILT much better than my 2002 Accord. Everything from the weather stripping around the engine bay to the rich leather stiched into the doors.

One thing I must say about the engines. Honda is more peaky, you have to rev it above 3,000rpm for anything to really happen, which can be fun in the right circumstances. In the VW, I rarely find myself above 3,500rpm. I think the torque peak is at 3,200rpm and you can really feel it. The Honda VTEC engine sounds better when you rev it high, in my opinion, but it can't really match the low, almost BMW-like, exhuast note of the V6 Passat. Oh, and the doors, they're so German-heavy on the VW! It's bizzare, I find myself slamming the Honda's now.

The jetta of the last gen does suffer from crummy interior materials. - I think that's what steve's thinking of.

My stepmom's 07 Passat is full of nice interior materials. It's gorgeous.

The jetta of the last gen does suffer from crummy interior materials. - I think that's what steve's thinking of.

My stepmom's 07 Passat is full of nice interior materials. It's gorgeous.

ya i haven't been in a 07 passat yet, i am just speaking of experiences on mine and my bros mk4 jettas. both of us had our glove box doors break off, and then the handle fell off on my bros too; my cup holder broke when i was driving home after i bought mine, and my bros is still kinda working, not well enough to use it, but just enough to say it's still there:lmao: then we both had a few vents break off, the one for the windshield on the dash went first on both of ours. the list can go on, and would probably include some of the cloth on the interior falling down.
my personal favorite was the crayon smell that is in all tan colored jettas with cloth interiors:lmao::lmao::paranoid: it never bothered me, but it sucked having a hot girl in the car asking you why your car smells like crayons :scratch::confused::lmao:

maybe it was the fact that mine was a 1999.5 mk4 (1st year production)
and my bros is a 2000 mk4 (still kinda first year production, but with some problems fixed)

whatever it was i am not making the same bad decision twice. Next time it is going to be a 2006 mk4 r32 :naughty: at least if it breaks down it will still look bad ass:thmsup:

Yeah I'd stay away from any first-year VW products. As for interior materials, the B5 Passat actually has richer materials than the new B6. The latter has some cheap plastics, and lacks the rich build of the older (and the little niceties such as lighted ac vents). And yeah, I'll agree steve, death to German cupholders. The ones in my passat are fine, but the older ones with those flip out BMW ones...puhleeze. Personally I wouldn't want a mk4 Jetta. Too many problems, including stupid ones like window regulators.

Too many problems, including stupid ones like window regulators.

ya i found that out the hard way:lmao:
i found out mine were about to break after someone broke my window.
the recall was only on power window regulators for some reason, and they only have the metal replacement for the crank windows so i bought the replacement for the power windows and it was an exact fit for the crank windows:dunno::scratch:
pissed me off being told countless times they would not work, just to find out there an exact match.:thumbsdow

Sounds like you have found a very good match for yourself...congrats. I work for a German company that manufactures research/laboratory equipment. It's interesting some of the same approaches are of the same philosophy: Performance tends to far outweigh dependability. Now in research, that works well frankly. Many of the most far reaching performance components are the most notorious for quirks and reliability issues. But, there are features and results that cannot be accomplished with any other manufacturer.

It's always interesting to see how the cultural philosophies play out.