When is a price too good to be true?

[CaptainVideo]

In 6 to 9 months I may be purchasing a 2004 EX V6 Coupe. I've started tracking prices.

Is there any legit reason a dealer (example (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=228123003&dealer_id=53579222&car_year=2004&marketZipError=false&awsp=false&search_type=used&num_records=100&keywordsfyc=&make=HONDA&transmission=Manual&model=ACCORD&distance=500&make2=&address=45429&default_sort=priceASC&advanced=y&certified=&max_mileage=75000&max_price=&sort_type=priceASC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=2004&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=2003&drive=&search_lang=en&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&engine=6+Cylinder&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=397); Atlanta Best Deals, LLC) would post an asking price less than the trade-in value listed on the big three? (KBB, NADA, Edmunds)

Isn't Trade-in "value" LESS than what a car would be expected to sell at auction? There doesn't seem to be a way for the dealer to make money at that price without some sort of catch. The only other explanations would be that the car is junk or KBB, NADA & Edmunds are overstating the car's value.

Is it worth pursuing an '04 EX V6 Coupe with 54k miles and an asking price of $13,900? Or is it too good to be true?

Thanks!

[anysia]

i'd look the car over thoroughly. odds are it's been through the ringer in some way (usually a salvage title or maybe a major accident or something). do not rely on things like carfax for that info. look for signs like crimp marks from a car being straightened, misaligned body panels, odd looking paint (less of the metallic flakes on some panels, a dull finish or extremely reflective finish on one part of the car that doesn't match the rest), missing vin stickers, etc. see if you can borrow the car for a day and take it to a tech or mechanic you trust and hopefully have some sort of relationship with to have it looked over. look at the mileage on the car. see if you can find all the maintenance records, etc.

[Terps_Fan]

Why not go check the car out and find out for yourself, before its gone.

[andysinnh]

Trade-in values are pretty close to wholesale - or the actual cash value that the dealer could get for the car at auction. But the real kicker is the condition. If you look at those sites, especially KBB, the condition you place on the vehicle can significantly impact the trade-in value. How's the body? Mileage/maintenance? Tires? Does it need brakes, etc? There's never a "free lunch", so if the price is low, there's a reason. Sometimes a dealer for one car make will have another on their lot, and they may reduce the price to move it off quicker - but that usually happens after it's been sitting there for a while....

andy

[CaptainVideo]

Excellent advice. I fully intend to have the car checked out by a mechanic before I purchase. I'm looking for ways to weed out obvious scams or tricks.

The point about having more than one of the same car on the lot is interesting because this dealer has three.

Are there any places to go to get user opinions on used car dealerships? You can find plenty of forums where they discuss new car dealers, but there's very little discussion I've found devoted to buying a used car.

I've found www.dontgettakeneverytime.com and www.carbuyingtips.com but neither offer a forum.

"Crimp marks" is a new one for me. What do those look like and where would you find them?

"Missing VIN Stickers" I only know of the one on the dashboard on the drivers' side. Where else are they?

[Accordlover]

Look in your Accord's owners manual. It has a list of all the vin tag locations. It'll be about the same on the new Accords.

Ususally they're on each door, inside the rear door wells (near the thing that catches the lock), hood underside, trunk underside, rear bumper cover (open trunk look down at the bumper and to your right on the 03-07 coupes). Look under hood for missing caps on the plastic trim pieces near the front of the car, or loose pieces in general. That shows it's been dismantled for some reason. I know on my god mothers odyssey, they didn't bolt down a few covers last time she had an accident.

[anysia]

and look for paint rubbed off of bolts too.

ugh, the bodyshop ticked me off when they did mine. they left a ton of telltale signs behind. one was a missing sticker under the new hood, some missing rubber pieces under the hood, knicked bolts, molding on the roof that kept popping out of place, a couple of indentations along the moon roof, mismatched paint, etc.

[anysia]

crimp marks can be seen if you have the car up on a hoist. they're underneath the car.

[stevel]

crimp marks can be seen if you have the car up on a hoist. they're underneath the car.

if you see these marks. run away. they are where the unibody straightening machine did it's work.

[stevencrosbie]

Hey....learned something today!

[stevencrosbie]

and look for paint rubbed off of bolts too.

ugh, the bodyshop ticked me off when they did mine. they left a ton of telltale signs behind. one was a missing sticker under the new hood, some missing rubber pieces under the hood, knicked bolts, molding on the roof that kept popping out of place, a couple of indentations along the moon roof, mismatched paint, etc.



It was crooked too!:lmao::lmao:

[plunk10]

if you see these marks. run away. they are where the unibody straightening machine did it's work.

where can I find those marks? Is that picture showing under the side? or rear bumper?

For the record, I looked at a $7,000 car the other day (altima). While it drove excellent, carfax showed accident indicator with FRAME damage early in its life:thumbsdow

[SatinSilver]

A paint depth guage maybe another good tool to use for signs of bodywork.

[stevel]

where can I find those marks? Is that picture showing under the side? or rear bumper?

For the record, I looked at a $7,000 car the other day (altima). While it drove excellent, carfax showed accident indicator with FRAME damage early in its life:thumbsdow

under the side. along the bottom "seam" behind the rocker panel.

beware carfax. this car showed up clean. carfax said it was good when I checked it a full year after the accident.

[SatinSilver]

I remember looking at a new 92 Legend coupe with my dad at the dealer. I looked along the sides to check for dings and noticed some slight waves in the middle of the door. Opened the door and there was powder around the door hinges. My dad and the salesman thought I was crazy. The salesman checked with the sales mgr and said it was damaged pulling it into the showroom. Who wants a new car with body filler on it already?

[CaptainVideo]

Those marks look like they'd be hard to catch unless you know exactly where to look. I would hope a mechanic doing a used car inspection (like Autocritic or Lemonbusters (www.lemonbusters.org)) would know what to do.

How about "Honda Certified"? I'd still want to get a Certified vehicle checked out by an independent mechanic. Is there any reasonable reason a dealer would refuse to allow an inspection?

How about negotiating the price? '04 V6 Coupes seem to bottom out at $17,900 right now. (There's one locally with an asking price of $19,900, which is rediculous) These prices should be very negotiable.

I know dealers want to talk payments, or at least talk down from their asking price. But how is this logic when it comes to calculating a reasonable offer?

I read in "Don't get taken" that the certification warranty costs dealers about $800. I'll round that up to $1k. Wholesale on a clean '04 is about $14,000. Adding a reasonable 5% profit results in $14,000 + $1,000 + $750 = $15,750.

[Accordlover]

Honda/Acura CPO cars are limited to one Vin tagged panel being replaced if I remember right.