Having to leave Honda?

[Bowzer]

We have a major requirement for the next vehicle with a family of 3 kids all under 6: SPACE! Odysseys and their kin have been outlawed by the wife and as much as I try, I just can't find enough room in the Pilot to handle the major excursions we'll be taking often with this next family truckster.

So I find myself having to look outside the Honda family this time. My wife just loves the new Lambda vehicles (Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, and Saturn Outlook) and frankly, I've just about resorted to looking for deals on a Suburban. Overkill? Perhaps it would be at times. But I don't have the rock solid leadership feel about Honda that I used to. My personal experiences of Accord success aside (and I will happily drive any aging Accord forever if it is just for me), the comfort, safety, and utility of some of the new market offerrings seem to be very close to equal. Road noise, some questions on reliability I used to take for granted...they've taken a toll over time.

I think it's interesting to feel this pull away from Honda as I am probably in a main target group for their vehicles. I haven't made a plunge into another's pool yet but I have started the walk around before the jump. Only thing forcing more reconsideration now is that ole gas price thing.

[brickman]

Odysseys and their kin have been outlawed by the wife

Do you mean no minivans at all?

We are going to purchase an 8-seater Sienna in the very near future and find it has loads of space.

[benjamming]

Minivan vs SUV (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/14267/why-buy-a-crossover.html)

[jenjonesb]

I know your wife refuses to drive a minivan. I used to say the same thing... with a LOT of conviction. I HATED minivans and didn't want to be a soccer mom. I detested them.

That said? I'm a convert. The kid thing aside? Being able to bring home a front loader washer and dryer at the SAME TIME from the store? Being able to load in drywall without any effort? Being able to go on vacation and have everyone be in comfort AND have enough room for all our stuff? Priceless.

In fact, the reason I'm on this forum is due to the minvan. We had gotten a TL to be our family car and then surprise... the minivan was added three years later. My hubby missed the stick shift in his Integra and as a result, we've put a deposit on a V6 coupe.

Since he's getting the new car, obviously talk turned to what we'd get when my van is done. And you know what? I don't think I want anything OTHER than another Ody. If you had told me that I would be saying that six years ago? I would have said you were out of your mind.

One thing that made me change my mind? Having the auto sliding doors. I wouldn't think it would make a difference, but after walking with my three year old and six month old in the rain while also carrying packages? Having the door waiting open allowed me to get both kids in the car without having to put anything down AND kept us from getting soaked. With a SUV? Mommy would have been struggling to open the back door while juggling the baby and packages. And likely dropping something.

Once again, I didn't think a simple sliding door would make a difference, but with small kids? It is worth EVERY penny.

Now, I know your wife may never come around and I totally understand why. LOL. BUT. I suggest you check out www.odyclub.com. It's a good resource for minivan info, but they also talk about SUVs pretty often...

Good luck!

[Bowzer]

Brickman...Yep, even after much dialogue, she just can't stomach the thought of going minivan. I am just fine with it and may just end up getting one a couple of years from now and being the designated driver for it.

Benj...really interesting article in that link. But, this is one of those "no matter how good it looks on paper" things I'm afraid. Like I just wrote, I'm all for it...but this next one isn't my main ride, it's hers.

Interestingly, I've found a lot of backlash out there on minivans in conversations with others. I guess something about the "soccer Mom" image is taking the toll but I've never bought a car for someone else's opinion. In fact, back in the 80's when I was tooling around in my first Accord Hatchback, I kinda felt I had one of those best kept secrets in driving bliss. As for a minivan image, doesn't bother me a bit.

Writing all this....I also may fall into one of the ultimately conservative boring middle agers category, too. But...I am what I am. (And that's a proud and happy Dad.)

Lastly, no fair throwing barbs at my wife here...she is my wife after all and had the good taste to pick me for a husband.

[Bowzer]

I know your wife refuses to drive a minivan. I used to say the same thing... with a LOT of conviction. I HATED minivans and didn't want to be a soccer mom. I detested them.

That said? I'm a convert. The kid thing aside? Being able to bring home a front loader washer and dryer at the SAME TIME from the store? Being able to load in drywall without any effort? Being able to go on vacation and have everyone be in comfort AND have enough room for all our stuff? Priceless.

In fact, the reason I'm on this forum is due to the minvan. We had gotten a TL to be our family car and then surprise... the minivan was added three years later. My hubby missed the stick shift in his Integra and as a result, we've put a deposit on a V6 coupe.

Since he's getting the new car, obviously talk turned to what we'd get when my van is done. And you know what? I don't think I want anything OTHER than another Ody. If you had told me that I would be saying that six years ago? I would have said you were out of your mind.

One thing that made me change my mind? Having the auto sliding doors. I wouldn't think it would make a difference, but after walking with my three year old and six month old in the rain while also carrying packages? Having the door waiting open allowed me to get both kids in the car without having to put anything down AND kept us from getting soaked. With a SUV? Mommy would have been struggling to open the back door while juggling the baby and packages. And likely dropping something.

Once again, I didn't think a simple sliding door would make a difference, but with small kids? It is worth EVERY penny.

Now, I know your wife may never come around and I totally understand why. LOL. BUT. I suggest you check out www.odyclub.com. It's a good resource for minivan info, but they also talk about SUVs pretty often...

Good luck!


Thanks, Jen. We'll see what all works out. I have the feeling she would be another convert if able to spend time in a m/van. Unfortunately, we may have to find this all out by proving to "ourselves" that some latest version of a crossover/SUV doesn't quite cut it. Hey, I'm just here to carry out her wishes, right?

[psyshack]

Humm

Three kids and my parents did Fiats, Corvairs and American sedans. The thought of a van or a SUV type truck to haul three kids in seemed over kill to them as well as myself. I had three kids and the largest they ever saw was a 94 Olds Delta 88.

Good luck with the house on wheels.....

[stevencrosbie]

Toyota Tundra Crewmax!

Will hold 5 easier than any Car or SUV. This thing has massive room, will tow 10k, get better mileage than a Pilot, and the 5.7 will eat any SUV/Minivan for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Plus...it is way cool!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e365/stevencrosbie/New%20Tundra/DSC00019.jpg

[flippco]

A friend of mine has the Buick Enclave, it is a really nice vehicle. I mean for a Buick, you age by 30 years just by sitting in it. :D

[joerockt]

No brainer for me...Mazda CX-9, Motor Trend SUV of the year...

[joerockt]

Toyota Tundra Crewmax!

Will hold 5 easier than any Car or SUV. This thing has massive room, will tow 10k, get better mileage than a Pilot, and the 5.7 will eat any SUV/Minivan for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Plus...it is way cool!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e365/stevencrosbie/New%20Tundra/DSC00019.jpg

Alright Blue, now you just braggin :rolleyes::lmao:

[stevencrosbie]

A friend of mine has the Buick Enclave, it is a really nice vehicle. I mean for a Buick, you age by 30 years just by sitting in it. :D


I like those a lot. Very nice cars...and not even for GM...just overall nice car :thmsup:


Alright Blue, now you just braggin

Yeah....what can I say....it's what we truck guys do :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

BTW...you're TL rocks...I'm jealous that you have a rock solid one...I sure wish I could have said that about mine.

[joerockt]

I like those a lot. Very nice cars...and not even for GM...just overall nice car :thmsup:




Yeah....what can I say....it's what we truck guys do :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

BTW...you're TL rocks...I'm jealous that you have a rock solid one...I sure wish I could have said that about mine.

Well, all except for 3rd gear...Still havent taken it in yet...

[accordexlv6]

Let her pick what she wants to live with. Those GM FWD crossovers are probably quite nice. Why feel guilt over leaving Honda? I think it's silly to think Honda is the be all end all of motor vehicles. They're not. Only people who think so are Honda zealots. While I like my Accord a lot, I can surely appreciate excellent cars from other makers.

Of the 3 you mentioned, the Enclave is doing so well that availability is scarce and deals are nil. See if your wife likes the GMC or Saturn. The GMC will be easiest to get a bargain on (Saturn is no-haggle).

My wife loved the Pathfinder over everything else, and while I am not an SUV guy, it has turned out to be an absolutely perfect vehicle. She's been happy... so I'm happy. It's called a partnership for a reason.:yes:

BTW, I'm rootin' for GM, so good luck on your purchase.:thmsup:

[dohcivtec]

no way minivan ftw. this is my old one. gangstaaa huh :P

fits 7 people. ac didnt work. drivers window regulator broke. paint flakeed. gas guzzler. V6FTW. good car that was a piece of crap!

[mwmcginn]

There are a lot of cheap used SUVs out there right now. We should be seeing somewhere around a $.20 increase in fuel costs the next few weeks, so it might be time to look for those looking to trade them off.

[mwmcginn]

Humm

Three kids and my parents did Fiats, Corvairs and American sedans. The thought of a van or a SUV type truck to haul three kids in seemed over kill to them as well as myself. I had three kids and the largest they ever saw was a 94 Olds Delta 88.

Good luck with the house on wheels.....


That is interesting. When you had your kids how long ago was this? I had my RX-7 and my wife had a Subaru Impreza when she was pregnant. We took someone else's baby, and other child with us one week (no this wasn't a kidnapping) but I had to move both seats up all the way to allow for the rear facing seat to be placed in the center of the rear seat. These things are huge now.

[anysia]

me too. minivan hater. grew up in wagons and minivans. (4 kids in the family with 9 years difference between youngest and oldest). now days with carseat requirements, you wouldn't have been able to swing that in any sedan or station wagon (carseats cannot be legally installed on the rear or side facing seats that most station wagons had).

anywho, in our quest to figure out how we would deal with having 2 kids in the future and knowing all of the things about car seat safety and all that we have learned in the past couple of years, a minivan by far makes the most sense.

after having played around inside of suv's and minivans, the minivan has worn on me. it makes a LOT more sense. A LOT!

i'm not a minivan fan looks wise. and i'm really particular when it comes to suv looks (hate most). but if you have 2 kids in carseats and you live in a cold climate and need to deal with getting coats on before getting them out of the car and taking them off before putting them into car seats, suv's are pointless. they are completely pointless, useless and no better than your run of the mill sedan.

also, in most suv's, the rear air vents are mounted on the center consoles, making them only slightly better than a sedan as far as controlling the climate in the backseats, especially if you have a rearfacing child carseat in there! minivans very clearly win in this category! most have the air vents mounted on the ceilings, thus creating much more direct airflow to rear passengers, especially a rearfacing kiddo in a carseat.

as others mentioned, the power sliding doors are huge as well.

the access between the front seats to the rear is a huge help if you are taking long road trips. as unsafe as it is, who doesn't want the chance to hop back to the backseats to help calm a screaming child on a long road trip without having to pull over and climb into the back? suv's typically have the center console in between the front seats that is fixed and not moveable. minivans however tend to have no center console or a folding one allowing quick, easy access to the rear. this also helps when it comes to getting those coats on and off as mentioned earlier!

with minivans, some allow kids enough room to squeeze between rows of seats to gain access to their seating position. in suv's, most who need to use that third row need to climb over seats or through the back hatch...... food for thought there if you don't like a bunch of feet all over your seats! :lmao:

and your cargo room is so limited in an suv compared to the minivans until you reach those huge road hogs that should be left to people who have too many kids to transport with anythign short of a bus.......

when all is said and done, suv's make little if any more sense than any decent sized sedan on the market. (and if we start comparing those, there are tons of things that would point to a sedan being more worhtwhile.....)

i'm pretty much converted to minivan thinking despite prior hatred of the things. and that hatred ran pretty dang deep. it took looking at the options and seeing exactly how useless an suv would be and how useful a minivan would be to convert me.

see if you can borrow an suv for a day or two and see if you can borrow a minivan for a day or two. the end result may be a bit less hatred of the dreaded minivan..... i almost instantly saw the difference.

(i still loathe that no matter whether you talk minivan or suv, the options are extremely limited if you want a manual transmission! :mad: )

[anysia]

That is interesting. When you had your kids how long ago was this? I had my RX-7 and my wife had a Subaru Impreza when she was pregnant. We took someone else's baby, and other child with us one week (no this wasn't a kidnapping) but I had to move both seats up all the way to allow for the rear facing seat to be placed in the center of the rear seat. These things are huge now.

we have a rear facing britax (the big monster seats-a decathlon and a boulevard) in each of our cars. the tsx is a little more limited in space upfront, but the accord has plenty of room and i'd hazard a guess that the seat could be pushed all of the way back with that sucker in there rearfacing behind the driver even! i was pretty impressed!

you gotta love how much transporting a child has changed over the years. i remember my youngest siblings in those overhead sheild carseats till about 1 year old, then just slapped in a seatbelt whereever.

we now have a 14 month old child still rearfacing in a five point harness seat. she'll stay there until she reaches the rearfacing wieght limit for her seat of 33 lbs. at her rate, she'll be 3 by the time that happens! then she'll turn forward and stay there till she outgrows these by height or the 65 lb weight limit!

[mwmcginn]

we have a rear facing britax (the big monster seats-a decathlon and a boulevard) in each of our cars. the tsx is a little more limited in space upfront, but the accord has plenty of room and i'd hazard a guess that the seat could be pushed all of the way back with that sucker in there rearfacing behind the driver even! i was pretty impressed!

you gotta love how much transporting a child has changed over the years. i remember my youngest siblings in those overhead sheild carseats till about 1 year old, then just slapped in a seatbelt whereever.

we now have a 14 month old child still rearfacing in a five point harness seat. she'll stay there until she reaches the rearfacing wieght limit for her seat of 33 lbs. at her rate, she'll be 3 by the time that happens! then she'll turn forward and stay there till she outgrows these by height or the 65 lb weight limit!


With our current rear facing set up, we can pretty much have the seats in the accord anywhere we want. Its nice, because of the width, but it still comes up in between the front seats. Now that we are looking at number 2 we are going to try to make the cars work. We have a Chrysler Concorde as well as the Accord. The Chrysler may start getting used a lot more after the next one in march.

[Accordlover]

So anysia, when does the TSX go in favor of a Minivan :naughty:?

I think the current gen ody is an awesome minivan. The top of the line ones are my favorite.

[anysia]

So anysia, when does the TSX go in favor of a Minivan :naughty:?

I think the current gen ody is an awesome minivan. The top of the line ones are my favorite.

dang, the tsx? why does it have to be the tsx???? :bawl: i really would like for my car to stick around for awhile (atleast right now i'd like it to stick around... i once said that about my accord coupe too. and my civic. and the civic before that..... :lmao: )

someone else wants to get rid of his car cause it's "old' now and he's had it too long........ :lmao: i keep telling him to get an ody, swap the transmission from the accord into the ody, then sell the accord as a v6 automatic. :naughty: everyone wins then, right?

[jenjonesb]

If it helps? Now that my two are 7 and 4? We're going back to a coupe since we take the van everywhere as a family.

BTW- I can't believe I didn't mention the ability to get from a front seat to a back seat without leaving the car. BIG plus!!! On two occasions, it has SAVED my rearend. Once when #2 got a bloody nose, I was able to be there in a few seconds instead of having to stop the car and then get out and open the back door....

The other time was when #1 puked on a vacation on a stretch of I95 with no place to pull over.. Thank God I had the ability to get back there quickly!!! Otherwise, it might have been five minutes if we would have had to pull over. The time saved getting to my kids was priceless!! And that's not including the daily stuff like picking up sippy cups/bottles that fell on the floor, being able to take my folks along on special outings with no problem and the ability to pass chicken nuggets back easily... LOL.

[aljlin]

I actually sat in a upscale Odyssey when I was purchasing my car, ( We were waiting for the sales people to come back to us, and it was sitting in the dealer. ) and boy was I impressed. We have a Ford Windstar right now that we're getting rid of and it's kinda a dump. (no surpise there!) I sat in the Odyssey, and man that car was nice inside, easy to get in and out, very roomy and nice driver position. As the kids grow older, the minivan will give the kids more space, as well as more just overall storage. The storage and space in the minivans faaaaar outgain any of the suv's besides maybe a hulking suburban/expedition. (the new EL expeditions are ROOOMY. I sat in one, and that car was comfy in the 3rd row, for an adult. No legs shoved up against the 2nd row, no slouching. just pure comfort. Too big though!) It is a "soccer mom" car for a reason! Just imagine when the kids are older and you have to carry sports bags, equipment, toys for the younger ones, video games / movies for long trips... Those things pile up.. But hey, if your wife refuses to drive one, then that's alright. Maybe when you go out for a test drive of a SUV, try test driving a SUV and a Minivan, and just compare sizes of the cars and such, then sit down and figure out what works for you. Maybe a SUV would be adequate for your needs. Anyways good luck with your search! :-)

[Bowzer]

Thought I would put in an update...(another long post from me; have to control this long windedness one day):

We had a Saturn Outlook to test drive for all of this past weekend. I have to say, very impressive.
For the record: 2008 Saturn Outlook XE, stickered at $34k with options of Skylight & sunroof, Upgraded Audio with DVD, and split captains chairs mid-row

Design:
This vehicle, which is very similar in wheelbase to a Tahoe, is one of the best designed spaces I have seen. With a split/Captains Chair setup for midship, it very much resembles fro the inside a slightly stunted in height minivan in function and feel. All seats have enormous legroom...versatile sliding tracks provide more than any minivan I have looked at including the third row. Cargo diminishes a bit compared to some but ample for daily use. There was not quite as much thought as Honda exemplifies on some niche touches for cubbies, etc. on the interior. Looks, subjective manner assumed, were better than average with a subdued theme. The exterior is a bit of a headturner not just because of being completely new. The lines on the car are very pleasing with a purposeful look and no apologies for moving a bunch of people type of intentions. Taught lines outside and nonoffensive and efficient inside.
Overall Vehicle Design: Homerun 10 of 10

Execution:
Assembly and Materials: Excellent on both. The plastics on the interior best some of Honda's recent versions. The cloth seats were comfy and midrange supportive...not up to Honda's versions of late; material on seats, side panels, console, and floor were all excellent.
Fit...and I am a stickler on this one...was absolutely great. The plastic panels from dash to large side pieces to floor were all very tight and squeak/rattle free. I even did a few fisted bangs against some of the pieces and all felt well insulated, thick, and firmly set. Outside, the body panels were consistent for gaps. Doors and hatch had ample and well fitted insulation and smooth operation. Everything had a very substantial "heavy/durable material" feel to it. Paint and trim all excellent with lots of metallic hue to the silver paint. I did detect a hint of orange peel but really had to have the light hit just right and look closely.
Overall Build Quality: Excellent; 9 out of 10

Comfort:
The driving position was very adjustable (able to fit both my 5'2" wife up to my 6'3" frame). No telescoping wheel though. Dash controls used the std GM central knob setup for radio. Arrangement was straightforward and buttons/knobs all had substantial feel and design. (This used to be a huge pet peeve of mine about GM cars. The controls all felt like cheap Dollar Store toys and performed even less well with a little bit of use.) Overall visual of the ****pit was just better than average with clear gauges and pleasing aesthetics. Nothing to dream about but obvious thought and design behind everything.
Passenger layout is absolutely superb. Lots of open air feel and pleasing cabin design. Seat bottoms a bit on the short side for my size but very comfortable with plenty of adjustment available. All passengers, and we loaded everyone up to fill all spots, reported great comfort and no hassle entry/exit.
Overall comfort: 9 of 10

Driving Experience:
As mentioned, clear gauges and ease of operation along with good comfort set a good stage. Outward visibility is excellent with some guessing on the rearward position due to a high back window setup. Engine is a 3.6L High Option (Variable Timing) block putting out 270 hp on our example. It was satisfactory and would answer well when asked to get on the highway, etc. But, the 6 speeds on the trans fished when driving 45-60 mph steady drives. This evened out as I learned how to adjust my foot on the throttle but it was obvious the drivetrain is doing everything it can to move the considerable mass. A V8 is a no brainer for high end options on these Lambda platforms...I'm sure it's coming on the Buick in a year or two. But the V6 was not anemic either. You won't find yourself slamming the gas pedal only to hear more noise and little movement as on old GM 4 bangers and small 6's. It will answer your call well for the heavy power. The shortcoming is on moderate driving where it stays busy trying to be responsive yet optimally efficient at the same time. It is, at best, adequate. Road feel is slightly taught in Saturn taste and complimented cornering and handling really well for so much heft. The wide stance was rock solid sedan like for stability. This is helped with its stance sitting down into a huge set of tires/wheels. Brakes were better than average and had no problem stopping. Once you get this vehicle up to speed, it is very well mannered and car like to drive. Feedback is not exactly sports car like as you can imagine but it's far from numb. Compared to Honda, this is where I missed my Accord for driving experience. I was more removed from the road and dynamics which eventually bored me. The upside: It was whisper quiet in the cabin. And I have to say, it drives better than some soft sedans I have piloted. For a family truckster, it's perfectly well suited.
Overall Driving Experience: 8 out of 10

Equipment Performance
As mentioned, controls all felt good to the touch. Layout was good and easy to pick up. On board DVD system worked well...even my 16 month old will attest to that one as she was quieter than any other car ride I have had her in. Hardware for seats, while the pulls were plastic, were all strong hardware that worked easily. The mid row seats flip forward with the bottom cushion moving up and against the back allowing for some 2+ feet of travel and a huge entry space to the third row. The windows had the quickest down speed I have ever seen on a power window setup...I don't know why but it really surprised me. Cargo area is deeper than a Pilot with third row up. I am accustomed to a two row SUV so these all seem very shallow to me. But, at least 75% of a heavy duty grocery store trip should be no problem...and 100% plus with one side of the back row folded. All in all, this vehicle did not have some of the new fancy power seat foling options, etc that some offer. But, it did everything promised smoothly and effectively.

So there's your official amateur's view. I came away really liking this vehicle. We'll probably be looking at one in the driveway in the next 3 months...

I know this is quite a bit on a nonAccord vehicle for this forum but I figured since I started the thread and appreciated the member feedback, I could at least do an update with some findings.

[stevencrosbie]

I like the Saturn...but prefer the Arcadia (GMC) or the Buick.

GM is on the right track with these vehicles. I find they are far better than the Honda/Toyota offerings in their classes.

The new Toyota Sequoia is out in Decemeber.

[accordexlv6]

Like I said previously, the GM FWD SUVs are pretty nice. My neighbor down the street traded a fancy GMC Envoy for an Enclave (black with lots of chrome and shiny OE wheels). It looks nice, but for us it's a bit too flashy/gaudy. For your purchase, watch for deals this time of year, and go on GMInsideNews.com for rebate/incentive info. They could help steer you into whatever you're looking for.

As an aside, tonight while driving home, I saw my first 2008 Caddy CTS on the road (it was pearl white with a trunk spoiler). I gotta say, I LOVED the styling of that thing. Terrific stance, no wheel gaps, very aggressive/classy detailing, and absolutely no awkward cues/views.

If GM can conquer the reliability issue once and for all, they deserve to survive simply because a sea change is certainly occuring in Detroit.

I'm an American, and would buy an American car first if it is the best in it's class... no excuses.:thmsup:

[gaviota]

Nice car, the Outlook. :thmsup:

I need a big car too, I'm waiting for the new Pilot.