synth switch... worth it?

[lpaudio2]

I am closing in on 40k, and thinking about switching. Up until recently I was driving 80-90 miles a day so synth was hardly worth it since it was all highway.

Its a lot more expensive. 33 for regular oil at the dealer and 77 for synth. I have a very short <2 mile commute, and it gets COLD here in iowa... Dealer actually says dino is just as good as synth.. dont buy that...

1. will synth really reduce wear on those cold morning starts and short trips which I do a lot of?

2. What is the generally accepted milage to go. I want to preserve my honda extended warranty (120k), so need to keep within warranty limits.

3. Some say better gas mpg, is this true?

in an V6 6MT

-ken

[RTexasF]

My opinion:

Although I am pro synthetic I don't see it as a good value in your case. Why? Because of the outrageous prices your dealer charges.

Synthetic will indeed flow more quickly on very cold mornings and would hold up better to the very short commute you have. Your engine never has a chance to warm up during the week at all....not a good thing. I hope you drive it some longer distance weekly to burn the moisture and contaminants from the oil. I doubt synthetic would provide a MPG gain under the short drive conditions.

A full synthetic would likely allow you to go whatever the maximum interval is to maintain your extended warranty.
This should be confirmed by a used oil analysis, about $20-$25.

In short, if you can find a place that doesn't remove your trousers when they change your oil then strongly consider synthetic. Also changing it yourself would save a huge amount of money.

If you have no intention of doing it yourself and are stuck with the dealer continue with dino (regular) oil changes @ 5K miles intervals.

***You may want to consider speaking to the dealer about you bringing in your own oil (& filter) and ask what they would charge for labor. If they were agreeable and more realistic in their pricing.........success. Wal-Mart has 5 quart jugs of 5W20 (Mobil1, Pennzoil Platinum) synthetic oil for less than you are paying for your current oil change. Perhaps you could strike a happy medium that provided the benefits of synthetic without the $77 fleecing they offer now.***

[stevel]

if you intend to keep the car for many years and many many miles, like 150K miles or more. switch to synthetic. if you think you'll probably get a different car before that, don't bother, you shouldn't have any engine issues in the first 100K as long as you use a decent dino oil...........

[lpaudio2]

Well they do match coupons so I could get about $15 off that... which isnt too bad or it doesnt seem to bad. I used to do all my own car work but I moved to the city and lost my space to work. :/

Now that my rattles are fixed I plan on taking it to 300k at least... So possibly I should switch.

Any idea what the max warranty length is, or if thats determined by maintenance minder only in an 2006?

I will ask about the own oil part but I have a suspicion the answer will be no. Too bad they are the only local dealership. Maybe I should call the acura place.. hmm

[RTexasF]

If you're planning on 300K then it would be worth switching in my estimation. Just find a less expensive way to do it. Since your's has the maintenance minder go by that to satisfy warranty. Mind you it doesn't take synthetic oil into the equation but will satisfy requirements. I don't know how those are "marked" but let it almost run down to zero with the synthetic.

Also what brand of synth does the dealer use?

[lpaudio2]

dealer uses mobil 1.

I know it calculates based on driving, what what do you usually get down to before needing a change 7500 or so? Dealer recommends 6k intervals for synth, which seems pretty early.

[RTexasF]

dealer uses mobil 1.

I know it calculates based on driving, what what do you usually get down to before needing a change 7500 or so? Dealer recommends 6k intervals for synth, which seems pretty early.

I don't have MM but if you do then go by it not the dealer.

[reframmellator]

I think I read that Mileage Minder computes based upon cumulative engine rpms and outside temperature (that could be engine temp, which in a way makes more sense, but the former stuck in my mind because it didn't make much sense). If you're shooting for 300k, go synthetic. As noted, you can buy 5 qts of Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec plus a really top notch filter like a Purolator Pure One or a Mobil 1 filter for less than what your dealer charges for a change with conventional oil. Just be sure to change the drain plug washer with every change. I use M1 almost exclusively and have logged nearly 750,000 miles over the years (beginning with my '66 Rambler Classic in 1976 - talk about trying to buff a turd). You will most definitely note a major difference in cold weather starting. Even thought synthetics are given viscosity ratings, virtually any synthetic outperforms counterpart conventional oils across the entire SAE viscosity range. The basic questions are 1) Do you need that performance and 2) Need it or not, are you willing to pay for it? If you keep your cars until they fall apart, syn is worth it. My '94 Accord ran syn from 6k until I carried the pieces to the dealer at 285k. The body gave out, and the engine leaked oil, but never used it, and could have gone 400k. If someone scarfed engine, it's probably still running. I also run syn in my '93 Volvo 940 Turbo Wagon since we bought it used at 73k. It has 223k now, and even though the life of a Volvo blower is supposed to be 200k, it shows no signs of letting up.

[Aviography]

Two thoughts from me:

1. My last car had synthetic oil for the first 1.5 years with the original owner, but I used purely dino oil for the following 9.5 years and 330,000 km, the engine felt just as strong the day I sold it as the day I bought it. Sure it used a bit of oil towards the end, but that is likely thorugh valve seals which synethetic oil will not help.

2. I use regular Fram oil filter, nothing fancy, no Teflon coating, or silicon valve etc., I also re-use the drain plug crushable washer, in fact I have been using FRAM filter and re-use the oil drain plug washer for the last 24 years over 4 vehicles, logging at least 700,000 km, and never had a single problem. Ask yourself when was the last time you read or heard a genuine problem caused by FRAM filter or people reusing oil drain plug filters? I know I haven't come across ANY.

My $0.02 worth.

BTW, turbo engine is where I wholeheartly agree synthetic oil is well worth the money, but it's only because the heat generated within the turbocharge is often carried carried away by the engine oil (some turbochargers use liquid cooling), so the oil is serving both as the lubricant as well as the coolant, synthetic oil really shines in this high-stress application.

[lpaudio2]

Interesting about MMS.

I know the parts prices are a lot cheaper. It kills me, trust me, but I simply have no place to change it now that I live in the city in an apartment. Im probably just going to suck it up and pay $60 or so for the dealer to do it. Math wise I think it ends up costing me an extra $100 a year to run synth... which is not much.

How do you like your 93 940? I think if recall right that has the oil cooled pistons which was supposed to be the best incarnation of the b230.. I drove a volvo 850 for quite some time, drove it 200k on entirely original front end, including rotors (but not pads). Great car. Owned an 88 744Ti for a while. Almost bought another 744ti a few months ago, but apparently "excellent condition must see to believe" means the brakes are totally shot, and the windows dont work??

[reframmellator]

Aviography - Fram filters are perfectly good. I've used them many times myself. Consumer Reports likes them as well. It's unlikely that Fram filters have "caused" engine failures on a massive scale - I've heard of none. I think that based on my online research that filters such as the Pure One and Mobil 1 have better media, check valves, etc. That may not be critical - as Deming said, quality is fitness for use, and good quality is not necessarily high quality. I just feel my margin of safety is a little higher with synthetic oil and the filters I run. To me, it's worth it. But I'm an engineer by education, and I believe that not only does Murphy - the Law guy - never sleep, he's also gunning for me. I do disagree with you about the drain plug washers. Every time I've tried to recycle the washer, I end up with drips in my driveway. Every time. Many parts departments give them away, so why not?

LP - we've loved the 940 turbo. My wife especially loved the car because many people saw only the brick shaped wagon and not the tell-tale turbo eggcrate grille, and by then it was too late because all they saw were her square tailgate, rectangular taillights, and square exhaust pipe. It's our daughter's car now, and she loves it because of the rear wheel drive turning radius (when guys she's driving say, "you can't make that turn" and then their jaws drop) and that it is funkily coolly different, as compared to when she got it from us and it was dorky. The body is still virtually cherry, engine still has it, and if you baby it, you'll get 22 in mostly city driving. The only downsides are that it's always $500 minimum to repair it at any shop, the rear wheel drive is awful in snow in upstate NY (and I've tried every winter tire out there), and I started liking the car a lot more once I decided to quit fixing the AC (after three episodes and $3200). It's nearing the end of it's usefully safe life and it's all electrical. The brake lights come and go, and no one has ever figured out why. On cold start, the A/T sometimes sticks in performance mode, then is fine on restart. Other days it's fine. Most ominously, the instrument panel has taken to looking like a video lottery terminal - you never know what will light up when you turn that ignition switch, and they are seemingly random events. It's like it has a Lucas electrical system. (Aside 1 - When someone mentioned Lucas electrical systems to a British colleague. he said, "You mean the prince of darkness?" Aside 2 - Why do the British drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas refrigerators.)

It was the best wagon available in our price range when we bought it used in '98, and there were a lot more wagons available then. I don't really like SUVs or crossovers and my wife and I would rather walk than drive a minivan, so I would probably consider a used V70. I've seen the redesign, and I'm underwhelmed. They gave up too many good things. I have, however, seen the Gen 7 Accord wagon in the UK and I would buy that sweetheart in a heartbeat. . . .

[RTexasF]

It's not that Fram oil filters cause catastrophic failure because they certainly do not. It's simply that there are better constructed filters for the same or less money available.

[SatinSilver]

***You may want to consider speaking to the dealer about you bringing in your own oil (& filter) and ask what they would charge for labor. If they were agreeable and more realistic in their pricing.........success. Wal-Mart has 5 quart jugs of 5W20 (Mobil1, Pennzoil Platinum) synthetic oil for less than you are paying for your current oil change. Perhaps you could strike a happy medium that provided the benefits of synthetic without the $77 fleecing they offer now.***[/QUOTE]

I did this with my dealer in September. I asked them to use my oil..a jug of 5-20 Motorcraft syn blend. He just notated it in the write up..no big deal at all. I didn't even ask about price. They charged me $11 labor and $6.05 for a honda filter plus tax, oil disposal etc came to $19 plus $10 for my oil = $29. Even returned the jug with a little oil leftover in it.

[lpaudio2]

reframmellator:

not to turn this into a volvo thread or to highjack my own thread.

two things I figured Id share that may help.

1. Check the fuse box. My 88 had horrible melting fuse box, they overheat due to poor contact and musroom out into a mess.

2. The v70/ 850 - same car - had an 850 parents have a v70. If you buy one check the abs light - especially over bumps (the solder joints fail but you can fix it by resoldering), and the evaporator always goes. Went on both mine and my parents. Its about 10-12 hours of labor, and the WHOLE dash has to come apart.

If you go the v70 route go for a 98, 99 and up had eletronic throttle body which is a big trouble spot. So bad volvo is covering them all until at least 150k under warranty.

One thing that cool about the 850/v70 is they actually employ passive rear wheel steering, so you really get into impossible spots with it. Other than those spots the cars are very very solid. I still miss mine, and hope to find another one as a second car.

The other lucas joke ive heard is they were the first to invent intermittent windshield wipers.

[reframmellator]

Thanks for the info and the new one-liner

[honda761]

Very partial to Castrol Syntec here.

[Macdawgg]

Another shout out for Synthetic oil here, After my first oil change I've been using Syn oil for the last year and I now change my oil every 7500 miles. I plan on keeping my Honda for a long time. I've used Mbil1,Penzoil platnium. Castro syntec and to me there isn't a difference that I can tell between them. I would suggest buying your own oil, that's what I do. I go to Wal-mart and pick up whatever is on sale and take it to my dealer and he does it for me at a very fair price.

[Landshark67]

FWIW - I've used AmsOil for 11 years now. Never an oil related issue and the extended oil life is nice protection in case you get too busy to change the oil. Local tire dealers (Belle Tire) carry it and when compared to the nnormal 3-4K $25 change, AmsOil is about the same price but a better product.

All my gear-head buddies swear by the product. I'm sure other synthetic oils are good too.

I change the oil for my vehicles at 10K miles.

-Shark

[chanke4252]

My opinion on synthetic oil use is this: If you can afford it, do it. It definitely won't hurt anything, it'll help keep things in good shape, and you pretty much eliminate the possibility of engine oil blockages due to sludging oil. Aside from that, a lot of people extend their intervals by about 2x and just replace the filter. If money was an issue, I'd probably do that, but I have the money so I replace everything when the maintenance-minder tells me to.

[stevencrosbie]

I put in Mobil 1 in the truck yesterday. 8qts....man was that expensive..:boohoo:

[honda761]

considering how much money most people waste on lottery tickets, casinos, junk, getting the best oil for your car is a simple matter and an easy choice for me. Plus, I have the courage to let my syn oil in there for 10k.

[lpaudio2]

update.

Made the switch today. Feel it was worth it. Especially between 5-6k I can really feel a difference in smoothness. Im sold!!

ended up costing $60 OTD.

[RTexasF]

Next time do the change yourself for 1/2 the price including filter.

[lpaudio2]

As I said earlier in this thread, I moved to an apartment and I have no space to do the oil myself. I know its cheaper to do it myself. Trust me, I know. Its just not an option where I live.

[RTexasF]

Yes you did say that and I had forgotten it, sorry. Still worth the time, trouble, and expense though.

[stevencrosbie]

60...wow...


I usually change my own oil...but Toyota did mine w/ 0-20 Synthetic for 48 bucks :)

That was 8 qts too. I'd find a new dealer!

[JBrian]

Since the motors in late model Honda Accords & Acura TSX, CL & TL, (K24 & J30 variants) are so easy on oil, I’ve standardized the oil for the fleet going with Motorcraft 5-20 semi-synthetic and the S2000 filter for our Honda’s & Acura with a 7500 mile change on my K24; a 5000 mile change on both my wife’s J30 as she does a lot of very short trips and my son’s higher mileage (87,000) 2001 Acura CL. Though I have run synthetic oil in the past, I just don’t see the advantage running it in these Honda’s. Changing my own oil & filter puts the cost at about $17.00 a change.

I also run the same oil with a Motorcraft filter in my daughter’s 2000 XR3 Focus with 5000 mile change intervals.

[benjamming]

The J30 (K24 may as well I don't know b/c I don't have one) runs a high level of fuel dilution so the engine itself is easy on oil, but the whole system is not. Fuel dilution to wash NOx. We use more gas to decrease emissions. Crazy.

[snafu]

If you haven't done this yet, autozone is running a 29.99 special for 5 qts of mobil 1 and a mobil 1 filter. It's what made me finally switch. I stocked up, and won't need to buy oil or filters for another two years:banana: I'm fairly easy on the car, so I'm going to shoot for a 7k change, though I'm going to check it at 5 for peace of mind.