Man shoots burgulars at neighbors house

[honda007]

What is this world coming too. I can't believe it is okay to shoot and kill someone that is breaking into your neighbors home just because you don't feel it is right. I don't agree with anyone committing this crime of breaking into someone's house, but I am not going out there to try and protect it by shooting either. I don't what the law is in texas.

Listen to the 911 call (http://www.mediatakeout.com/19434/shocking_audio_man_shoots_burglars_after_9-1-1_dispatcher_pleads_with_him_not_to.html)

Here is part of the article...
The Pasadena homeowner who gunned down two alleged burglars Wednesday told 11 News that he is "petrified."

Police released the 911 call from Wednesday’s fatal shooting of two suspected robbers who he claims were ripping off his neighbor.

In the recording the man, who we are only referring to as Joe, opened fire when he confronted two men who thought was breaking into a neighbor’s home.

The dramatic call to police has the unidentified shooter telling the Pasadena police dispatcher, “I won’t let them get away with this.”

Soon after you can hear the distinct sound of the ****ing of a shotgun and repeated shots being fired.

The call started off calmly enough.

READ the REST (http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou071115_tj_911call.7f804f1.html)

[GardenWeasel]

What is this world coming too. I can't believe it is okay to shoot and kill someone that is breaking into your neighbors home just because you don't feel it is right.

What if it was your house?

[stevencrosbie]

I'm glad it happened...one less loser on the streets of this country.

You can bet your ass....I'll kill anything that breaks into my house.

[honda007]

What if it was your house?

let the cops do their job.

[honda007]

I'm glad it happened...one less loser on the streets of this country.

You can bet your ass....I'll kill anything that breaks into my house.

into my house i would too, but the neighbors house i am not sure i would go the extra mile. this guy was told several times not to take matters in his own hands.

[stevel]

I'm glad it happened...one less loser on the streets of this country.

You can bet your ass....I'll kill anything that breaks into my house.

on less loser on the street and one less loser we have to pay to feed in jail.. :thmsup:

[Accordlover]

This happened in Pasadena Texas.

Which is plain and simple, red neck land. I'm not saying that's a bad or good thing, but it is what it is, the people who live in the community of where this incident occured would be the type to award him the heroic neighbor award for his actions. I was in Houston yesterday and the nightly news played the phone call between the 911 agent and the man who shot the burglars.

People have talked about weather the death penalty is a fair punishment for this crime. The overall defense has been that if the Police came, they would've done the same thing. I have little to no doubt to the validity of that assumption/statement. Though I would hope they might tazer then arrest. That seems to be a better method.

But what can you do, they didn't show up in time. So there isn't much of a reason to even guess/think/wonder how it might have been different.

I don't think this is a case worth murder charges. Though the man who committed this act of violence was advised not to do so more than once on the phone and clearly sounded like he was intent on shooting these guys; rather enthusiastic about it as a matter of fact. I do think that this should not be treated the same way if the owner of the house did the shooting. Here's why.

What if I was someone this guy had never seen, and I didn't look associated with the people who owned this house. I was at the house to pick something up and I was given insturctions on how to enter the house when they weren't home. Going through the side gate to the back yard and in the back door maybe....

So all this time, there's a man looking out of his window watching for me.

I come out with what I came to get and I walk away from the house or to my car. This guy, on the phone with 911, decides he's not gonna let me get away, and shoots.

I die.

Here's my point if you didn't get it. This could've gone any way. If he's simply let go as if it were his property and it was in an act to defend himself or his personal property then what will people think?

That it's ok to shoot if you're doing it in an act to save your neighbor from what you think is a burglary or other negative act against them?

I think not. Sadly, because this is Pasadena it will probably come and go like another day.

And that's what I have to say.

[Accordlover]

on less loser on the street and one less loser we have to pay to feed in jail.. :thmsup:

That's right, and now maybe we can pay to feed the guy who shot the guys in jail!:banana:

:rolleyes:

[stevel]

That's right, and now maybe we can pay to feed the guy who shot the guys in jail!:banana:

:rolleyes:

hopefully not.

but I'd rather feed a guy looking out for his neighbor than feed the guy whose only purpose there was to steal/harm.

:banana:

[GardenWeasel]

let the cops do their job.

harrumph! cops only job is to go home safely. To actually protect the public? LOL!

[stevencrosbie]

on less loser on the street and one less loser we have to pay to feed in jail.. :thmsup:

Damn straight. My neighbors would want me to kill a thief in their house to. I'd know as this has been stated at the monthly neighborhood watch meetings :)

[Accordlover]

and the purpose of insurance is...?

[stevencrosbie]

My insurance includes USAA and a loaded .45 in my nightstand. Sometimes you have to make your own luck.

Survival of the fittest.

[princess]

I have mixed feelings....

Although I DO believe we have the right to protect our own property & loved ones.... a neighbor's isn't the same.:dunno:

There could've been an explanation. I've allowed people to come into my home when I'm not here. My alarm has gone off because they didn't remember the instructions. Cops have come. I'd sure hate someone, cops or anyone else, to shoot them.

BUT if someone were in MY home, if I could, I'd want to defend it/myself from a stranger without the fear of the law getting in the way. Living in CA the law IS in the way. Thieves sue owners for hurting them with bats, sticks, etc. So you need to be sure to kill them! That way you don't get sued by them.

As far as another loser gone.... there's 10 more to take their place. If it weren't true gangs & such would be shrinking since they're always shooting each other. I am definitely for capital punishment.... but by due process.

Now I DO have some neighbors I'd like to get rid of.......:paranoid::naughty:

[namegoeshere]

I agree with what Accordlover and Princess said. What if it had been a friend or family member your neighbor didn't know and the neighbor shot and killed them?

There's a word for these types of people: Vigilante.

[turBeau]

and the purpose of insurance is...?

To not make it go up or get cancelled for filing a claim. :thmsup:

[Accordlover]

To not make it go up or get cancelled for filing a claim. :thmsup:

I could care less how much my neighbors insurance is. I have no business shooting someone on someone else's property that I think is burglarizing them.

[RTexasF]

harrumph! cops only job is to go home safely. To actually protect the public? LOL!


What an idiotic thing to post!! When you need help in the future DON'T diall 911.....please.

[turBeau]

I could care less how much my neighbors insurance is. I have no business shooting someone on someone else's property that I think is burglarizing them.

But the roles had been switched in this conversation into "what if" it was your house? It would be you filing a claim since your neighbor didn't take action and try to help you out.

Why do people just turn their heads at this stuff? If they did it then and didn't get caught, guess what, they'll do it again and have more confidence to boot.

Just let them steal whatever and go about their business, we'll get it back w/ insurance. Yeah right, I work way too hard just to have someone come in a take it. Sorry peacemakers, but somebody's going to get hurt.

[stevencrosbie]

Don't forget...most of us have a deductible on our insurance. I have better things to do with that money...

like buy bullets for my gun :) Gotta get that practice in.

My favorite saying: "Gun Control: Being able to hit what you are aiming at" :)

[GardenWeasel]

What an idiotic thing to post!! When you need help in the future DON'T diall 911.....please.

LOL! :banana:

[messfeeder]

What an idiotic thing to post!! When you need help in the future DON'T diall 911.....please.

The sad truth is, after my own experience with the police, I wouldn't call them! I would much rather take things into my own hands. But if it were my neighbor's house and I didn't know what was going on I definitely wouldn't just go out and start shooting people! At the same time, it is difficult to have pity on someone who lost their life while committing a crime.

[Accordlover]

But the roles had been switched in this conversation into "what if" it was your house? It would be you filing a claim since your neighbor didn't take action and try to help you out.

Why do people just turn their heads at this stuff? If they did it then and didn't get caught, guess what, they'll do it again and have more confidence to boot.

Just let them steal whatever and go about their business, we'll get it back w/ insurance. Yeah right, I work way too hard just to have someone come in a take it. Sorry peacemakers, but somebody's going to get hurt.

Nobody said anything about turning heads. The right thing to do if you think you're seeing a burglary taking place is to call the police. That's what your tax money is going to so you might as well take advantage of it. They may or may not show up on time. But at least you did something about it.

I have no idea why the conversation has changed to being 'your own house' because this event has nothing to do with the right to bear arms and use them to defend yourself in your own home. It's about whether it's right to "assume and shoot across the way" as I call it.

There are too many crazy folks out there who will take this event as a green flag to shooting people they think are up to no good. If this guy gets let off easy then the next guy will have to get let off easy too. It concerns me for multiple reasons, but overall what concerns me the most is people who think they have the right to be police officers. It is not our job as citizens of the united states to police our neighborhoods with weapons against other humans. It's a sure way to get yourself in some trouble.

Do you really want to be this guy?:dunno:

[Accordlover]

The sad truth is, after my own experience with the police, I wouldn't call them! I would much rather take things into my own hands.

Let me be the first to say that if you plan to go this route, be prepared for even more bad experiences with the police.

Not everyones local police departments/units are the best sadly. But the best thing to do is to try and let them handle the situation. Just my $0.02

[honda007]

Nobody said anything about turning heads. The right thing to do if you think you're seeing a burglary taking place is to call the police. That's what your tax money is going to so you might as well take advantage of it. They may or may not show up on time. But at least you did something about it.

I have no idea why the conversation has changed to being 'your own house' because this event has nothing to do with the right to bear arms and use them to defend yourself in your own home. It's about whether it's right to "assume and shoot across the way" as I call it.

There are too many crazy folks out there who will take this event as a green flag to shooting people they think are up to no good. If this guy gets let off easy then the next guy will have to get let off easy too. It concerns me for multiple reasons, but overall what concerns me the most is people who think they have the right to be police officers. It is not our job as citizens of the united states to police our neighborhoods with weapons against other humans. It's a sure way to get yourself in some trouble.

Do you really want to be this guy?:dunno:



I feel the same way.

[princess]

To me it's not an either or thing. There's are times & places that you just HAVE to do SOMETHING! There's also times when calling 911 is the best answer.

I have a neighbor that's loud, rude, suspected drug house, messy, up all hours, just plain obnoxious. I want them out so badly! A son has beat up his girlfriend, police were called.....she didn't cooperate. A "friend" was angry about something & shots were fired. Police were called. No one cooperated.

Do I want to defend the people that have wrongs done to them there? Nope. If someone were breaking into their home, I'd write down a plate number and call the police.... but I certainly wouldn't put myself in harms way for them.

This house is across the street from me.

If ANY of the other houses were broken into or people threatened I'd be involved. I know most of the cars that come & go that don't live there. I know the people that are regulars. I know the schedules pretty well. I'm not buddies with all of them, but I'd come to their defense.

I will call 911 for anyone. I won't put myself in a legal mess on purpose for THINGS. No TV or other electronics is worth a life. Most deductibles are 500 dollars on homeowners insurance. I think even a criminal's life should be worth more than that.

If you're a gun owner, you should be willing to use it. You should have good aim. You should have good vision. No question to help a neighbor's safety you should be willing to get involved in whatever way you can. BUT shooting over STUFF.....? I can't go that far.

[messfeeder]

Let me be the first to say that if you plan to go this route, be prepared for even more bad experiences with the police.

Not everyones local police departments/units are the best sadly. But the best thing to do is to try and let them handle the situation. Just my $0.02

The police can't always protect you. That's what the second amendment is for.

And the response time was horrible where that guy was. He was on the phone for a long time before anybody showed up. The police probably didn't race over until they realized the guy had a gun. That's how cops are. They would rather write upstanding citizens tickets for bullshit stuff than risk their necks going after the real baddies. Of course, there are instances when cops risk their lives and do heroic things, but on a day-to-day basis, they don't give a shit about "protect and serve." They just care about meeting their ticket quota.

Now, this doesn't mean you should go out with a gun and shoot everyone who you think is breaking the law. But if I were in a situation where the cops were no help to me, then I would have no problem taking the law into my own hands.

[Accordlover]

the response time was horrible where that guy was.

He was in a small town in Texas...

[benjamming]

small towns don't have cops? Maybe he isn't in the right part of town where response times are better. That is all speculation though.

I don't have a reason for calling the cops except cleaning up the mess. If it's too messy, that's why I have insurance (because the criminals probably don't have much money to pay for cleaning up their remains, err mess.).

When it comes to a neighbor's house, things change as princess points out. I have to approach it pretty much as the police do. Interesting subject indeed as I'm not sure what the official ruling is around here. Hopefully the outcome will be publicized.

Being passive in one's protection or that of family, can very easily result in your insurance being used to clean up your remains, err mess. I don't trust others to change the oil in my car much less with my life. Why anyone would trust others to protect their family is beyond me. One of the primary responsibilities of a man is protecting/providing for his family.

[psyshack]

I will protect my neigbhors homes just like this man did. And they look after mine as this man was. Shoot!!! Ask questions later. I guess its just part of the redneck code of honor. I think Oklahoma falls in the redneck cat.

If the cops and courts were doing there jobs. The theifs wouldn't be so active.

[joerockt]

My insurance includes USAA and a loaded .45 in my nightstand. Sometimes you have to make your own luck.

Survival of the fittest.

:thmsup: USAA and an XD40 with Hydrashocks loaded for me.

[joerockt]

I agree with what Accordlover and Princess said. What if it had been a friend or family member your neighbor didn't know and the neighbor shot and killed them?

There's a word for these types of people: Vigilante.

My friend or family member shouldnt be breaking into other people houses. You reap what you sow...

[turBeau]

You reap what you sow...

Glad I'm not the only one who sees it this way.

To Accordlover, if the shooter gets off easy then everyone else that does this will have to also? Come on, why do you think we have so many thieves? They get off easy with very little jail time and maybe community service. Wow, that'll teach'em.:thumbsdow

Seriously, our jails are way over crowded and thats one of the reasons why my taxes keep going up; is to build more prisons. The less criminals we have to put in their the better. Period.

[namegoeshere]

My friend or family member shouldnt be breaking into other people houses. You reap what you sow...

That's not what I meant. What I meant was what if it appeared to your neighbor that a friend or family member they didn't know what breaking into your house, but they weren't and they shot the friend/family member?

"Ooops, sorry. My mistake."???

What if it wasn't a house that these guys were breaking into, but rather a car. Is it okay to shoot them still? What if it was a house down the street and you knew the owners too. Would it be okay to shoot them in this situation? Where do you draw the line?

You can't just go around shooting at people because if it's okay for one person to do it, then others will start thinking it's okay to do it too. This isn't the wild west. That's why there are laws against such acts of violence... even if you may not agree with them.

[psyshack]

That's not what I meant. What I meant was what if it appeared to your neighbor that a friend or family member they didn't know what breaking into your house, but they weren't and they shot the friend/family member?

"Ooops, sorry. My mistake."???

What if it wasn't a house that these guys were breaking into, but rather a car. Is it okay to shoot them still? What if it was a house down the street and you knew the owners too. Would it be okay to shoot them in this situation? Where do you draw the line?

You can't just go around shooting at people because if it's okay for one person to do it, then others will start thinking it's okay to do it too. This isn't the wild west. That's why there are laws against such acts of violence... even if you may not agree with them.

I had a buddy of mine come in from PHX. while we were all at work. I explained to him where the spare key was. I called my neighbors. Told them a person would be at my house driving a such and such car and trying to find the spare key to get in. Told them his name and what he looked like. He pulled up and was greeted by a few of the locals. They showed him where to key was and helped him get settled in.

So the key to this is communication. Or bleach and a body bag will be needed. We are very sted fast in looking out for each other here. We defend each others homes, and there interest. The women in or neighborhood are safe. My buddy next door works off shore. I keep a eye on his wife. I will defend her as I would my own wife. She is a very sweet lady. House across the street is empty right now going thru a major remodel. When it sells and the new owners get in all should be good. We have kept a eye on the property for the current owner and contractors. They have been very please with how safe the house has been and how none of there tools or supply's have been stolen. Elderly couple next to that house is part of our neighborhood family. As is the single lady on the corner. We always have time to help our neighbors. We all know each others familys and friends. We throw block partys atleast two or three times a year.

The word has got out. Don't mess with the folks down on S. Okmulgee Ave. They put up with no chit. The cops don't even like us cause we do there job better than they do. We have ran dope dealers out of the park next to my house. We have stopped breaking and entering. Our wifes and daughters are not talked to like trash by people passing thru. We use to have cars stolen and vandlized here. No more. I took a shot at a car thief once. Knocked the roof out of a thiefs mouth with a dubble barrel 12 ga. I caught ripping off a neighbors home. The neighbor a cross the street use to throw hammers at peoples cars that came speeding down our street. The limit is 25 mph and we have a small park! He got sick of it and hammered them. Funny how the speeding stopped. Idiots driving 50 mpg down our streets ended.

You have to take control or the trash will take over!!!!

[stevel]

if accordlover gets to invent an alternate story other than burglary, then so do I.

lets say maybe the guy isn't a crook, he's not a family member trying to get in. lets say he's a rapist. looking for the families daughter..... now what? guess what? 10 to 15 minutes for the cops to get there and the damage is done. and it's not repairable damage is it?

oh yeah, I don't know how to file a homeowner's insurance claim for that one. do you accordlover?

be careful generating stories, you can twist them your way, I can twist them mine.

[anysia]

what i would say is anyone with half a brain who was allowed entry into my neighbor's home would have no problem coming on over and talking to me if i said something to them when i saw the "suspicious activity".

a smart burgler would do the same though. so, wrench number one.

but if they are only stealing items and noone is home, no real harm done. plus you as the neighbor would definitely be able to watch them taking stuff out of the house to add to the suspicions.

if you know your neighbors well & trust them, then in civilized areas, it's fairly common to let your next door neighbor know if you will be gone for awhile and ask them to keep an eye out for any odd activity (and let them know if someone will be stopping by to feed the fish or cats ro something). problem solved. but if you are new to the neighborhood or don't know your neighbors, this isn't feasible either.

however, the ONE thing i can't understand is the "shoot to kill".

shoot to INJURE/DEBILITATE. not kill. a robbery of any sort isn't worth killing. that puts mr. neighbor on the same level of stupidity as the theives themselves-especially with multiple shots fired. idiot.

[benjamming]

anysia,

I might could agree with the shoot to injure but with the way the LEGAL system is, the burglar might own my house if I only injured him. If they are killed, case is usually closed much quicker w/o the ambulance chasers getting involved. Also, they usually don't learn their lesson. They simply move on to another area where people don't defend themselves.

[anysia]

anysia,

I might could agree with the shoot to injure but with the way the LEGAL system is, the burglar might own my house if I only injured him. If they are killed, case is usually closed much quicker w/o the ambulance chasers getting involved. Also, they usually don't learn their lesson. They simply move on to another area where people don't defend themselves.

that's where countersuits come in..... instead of letting injured burgler own your home through a lawsuit for the injury, you counter sue for making you feel unsafe in your own home and the mental anguish suffered. most likely, the two will negate the other and noone gains anything at all.

i agree the legal system is extremely messed up (gotta love anything associated with our incompetant government). but taking the law into our own hands isn't the way to handle it either. by shooting to kill, you are playing the role of judge, jury, & executioner which isw in no way right--UNLESS the burgler pulls a gun, aims it at you and threatens your LIFE.

[stevencrosbie]

I live under the assumption that any burgler in my house is a threat to my life. In that case...dead burglers have a very hard time suing me. If I shoot the person...they will die...I guarantee that.


I have no compassion for a criminal.....

[benjamming]

anysia,

I agree with steve. If the burglar is able to point a gun at me, it's game over. I have to act prior to that. I can't put the life of my family in the hope that the burglar will be nice enough to warn me that he is going to kill me before he pulls the trigger. A gentleman's dual rarely happens in these situations.

In reply to judge, jury, executioner, well we all do have the right to a speed trial. I do my part to help in this regard as I've been known to be rather impatient in the past.

I can see where you are coming from but have you been broken into while at home? It usually creates a very different perspective if that person is willing to open up. On the flip side of the coin, killing someone is not an enjoyable adventure in any aspect and should not be done flippantly. Maybe this flippant attitude shines too brightly when reading through forums and comes off as too brash. I am willing to die in a flash for my family. I assume the burglar is willing to do the same for what he treasures the most - evidently my property/family or he wouldn't be in the situation he is in.

[anysia]

i think you mistunderstood me.... i said if the burgler points a gun at me, different story then. if my life is threatened, then it's justified. if it's only property at risk, then no, shooting to kill is not justified-especially in this scenario where it was a neighbor's home.

and someone breaking into your home while you are sitting there in your living room would be a different story too, though i should say, you are much better off getting the h-e-l-l outta there if you can safely do so as opposed to shooting the intruder. but even then, someone breaking down the door or entering through the window of my home is proof enough that they don't belong there and if i would shoot them, i would hope that would hold up in court as self defense.

in this case, with it being a neighbors home though, you loose the self defense end of things.

i mean geez, i was thinking about the time we were at a relative's house tkaing care of stuff while they were away and the guy across the street came over and questioned us. i don't know if this guy was told by the relatives that they weren't going to be home or if he was snooping around himself to figure that out, but at any rate, he came running over and interogated us about what we were doing at this house when he knew we didn't live there. if he would've just shot to kill instead, who the heck was wrong/right in that scenario??? we had every right to be there and were asked by the homeowners themselves to check up on things and take care of some odds and ends while they were out of town. but if he had just happened to feel like shooting because he knew we didn't live there...... see the insanity of just shooting to kill and not even trying to figure out what's going on for real?

and that wasn't the first time i've run over to someone's home to feed a cat, let a dog out, water plants, etc while they are out of town. to think i might be shot dead by some random neighbor assuming i was a burgler at some point in my life makes me want to refuse to ever help anyone in that regards again. :paranoid:

[Bowzer]

Warning: Rambling long rant at hand...

Living here in Houston, there's certainly been plenty of press on this around here. I've had mixed emotions about the whole thing. At first I thought: "Okay, there's a couple of guys we won't have to worry any more about." At the same time, it's not okay to assume the role of aggressor over defender...and I think that's where a lot of us get hung up on this one. When he (the shooter) chose to walk out of his house...no matter how frustrated over waiting what seemed like forever watching someone's things get stolen...he became the "hunter". Supposedly, one of the burglers responded to his verbal warning by taking steps toward him...another escalation of aggression in the scenario. And he responded by shooting...then shooting again going after burgler #2. Yes, Texans take a straight forward and simplified attitude on "If you're gonna put yourself in the position to do something illegal, be prepared for the consequences". But, between the phone recording protraying what seems like a hint of eagerness to NOT let the burglars go (If they were leaving, it's hard to establish the absolute or immediate threat on his life) and then his choice to shoot the second burglar (no details have been given, but you have to wonder what the 2nd guy was doing when the first hit the ground to warrant his being next)...it will be hard to establish this as "valid" grounds to kill. Even if the burglars took a step toward him, what will the courts say of the shooter voluntarily putting himself in the escalated scenario?

I have a problem with the hunting down of the criminals in principle...but understand the action from the scenario. Some argue: How do we know they only were taking property and didn't already hurt/kill someone in the house? He stated he knew the neighbor's house was empty...but you know, who knows what the rest of the day would bring? And then on the 5th hand (whew), can we go out killing or stepping on others freedom in the anticipation of what they might do next?

In gun training courses right now, the police train to assume a high potential that a criminal has harmful intentions when breaking in a home at night...when it is highly likely the residents are home and could be encountered. In fact, they train to yell a warning that you have a gun and to stop immediately...then open fire if deeming your life is threatened. In daylight (which this was), this assumption is not so quick. The property being stolen doesn't justify the death penalty.

So after all that rant: I, personally wouldn't have felt it justified to fire on them. But I am really tempted to donate to the shooter's legal costs to help him. He stepped up for what he thought was right on behalf of his beliefs and his neighborhood's safety. He appealed for help and when none could be provided in time, refused to allow that to become the final solution. I could see the actual trigger pull to be justified if the burglar actually started to approach/threaten. But, the mistake was seeking the burglar out with a weapon to bring it to such a confrontational peak.

My $.02...sorry for the long post.

[benjamming]

anysia,

I don't think I misunderstood you. If it gets to a point where the burglar can point a gun at me or my family in a non-ambush scenario, I did not do enough to mitigate the situation soon enough. For at that point, it is absolutely always fatal as far as I'm concerned. There is only one reason someone would have a gun in my house w/o my permission - harm others. If someone is willing to point a gun at me, I have to assume they mean to use it.

Lethal force is sometimes ruled excessive in a burglarly situation if they aren't armed and depending on locale. I don't, and won't live in such a locale. It is a human rights violation - my right to live as human.

We definitely agree on searching out the situation instead of shooting first & asking questions later in regards to neighbor's property (and even mine if they are outside & haven't entered my home). However, once they enter my home, I shoot first and ask questions later. They usually have some family.

Bowzer,

Thanks for an informative post. I didn't know it was in the daylight which changes things somewhat sometimes. I still agree with his actions. We still don't really know what happened since we don't know what the thieves said to him, do we?

[namegoeshere]

I live under the assumption that any burgler in my house is a threat to my life. In that case...dead burglers have a very hard time suing me. If I shoot the person...they will die...I guarantee that.

I can kinda understand shooting and killing a burgler breaking into your house. But this was his neighbor's house. He could have shot to debilitate the thieves, but instead his chose to kill them instead. As Anysia said, he wanted to be the judge, jury, and executioner. I have a hard time accepting that.

[ericrwalker]

I haven't read all the post yet, but just in case it hasn't been said...

Yeah let the jobs do their job...maybe they would have caught these guys, they pay a little fine or do a little time and back out to robbing homes again.

Two less losers in the world, I applaud the old man who did what is right. He told the guys he was going to shoot if they don't stop....a smart person would have stopped and waited for the police.


let the cops do their job.

[psyshack]

If the old man was in my town and asked for a jury trial. He would get off scot free. The DA wouldn't like the way he was treated if he even pressed charges.

We had a guy down the street bust a lady upside the head then throw a knife at her mother. I ran down there and beat the dude to a pulp. Cops got there. He went to jail, convicted of assault and attempted murder. Out of jail in a year. The cops and courts are worthless. Then you have the do gooders that want the jails clean and humain. So the jails are over crowded and they can't put anymore in. Well screw that. Stack them in like cord wood. They knew they were screwing up by breaking the law. Put them in fields and tents. I don't care.

I applaud the old man for taking action. He warned them. They at the threat of death kept on stealing. Its evindent they had no respect for the person they were ripping off, none for the old man, none for the law. And none for themselves. The world is better off without them.... The shooter should be thanked for his service.

[Accordlover]

He told the guys he was going to shoot if they don't stop....a smart person would have stopped and waited for the police.

What?

He was looking at the whole thing taking place outside from a window inside his home. When did he tell the burglars that he was going to shoot? He told the 911 operator...

[psyshack]

What?

He was looking at the whole thing taking place outside from a window inside his home. When did he tell the burglars that he was going to shoot? He told the 911 operator...

If that is the case that should have got the damn worthless cops there faster then.

[benjamming]

We don't know what he told the folks prior to shooting, do we?

[ericrwalker]

Yes we do...911 recorded it all.


here is a better link to the story and there are sound clips of the call here. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5309288.html


We don't know what he told the folks prior to shooting, do we?

[benjamming]

He did ask them to stop & they didn't. So, he asked a little less nicely and they did stop the 2nd time.

[ericrwalker]

yeah they stopped quick right after the shots.

Joe Horn deserves a reward.


He did ask them to stop & they didn't. So, he asked a little less nicely and they did stop the 2nd time.

[joerockt]

That's not what I meant. What I meant was what if it appeared to your neighbor that a friend or family member they didn't know what breaking into your house, but they weren't and they shot the friend/family member?

"Ooops, sorry. My mistake."???

What if it wasn't a house that these guys were breaking into, but rather a car. Is it okay to shoot them still? What if it was a house down the street and you knew the owners too. Would it be okay to shoot them in this situation? Where do you draw the line?

You can't just go around shooting at people because if it's okay for one person to do it, then others will start thinking it's okay to do it too. This isn't the wild west. That's why there are laws against such acts of violence... even if you may not agree with them.

I see. Well, my belief is that as long as your defending inside your home, its fair game. Especially in the state of Kalifornia. You shoot someone outside your home (like in your yard for example), a jury is probably going to convict, and I know its happened before. But its very rare that a jury convicts because you shot and killed a home intruder because there is absolutely no way to prove what that intruders intent was.

This guy was in no imminent danger, he put himself there. Its going to be interesting to see what a Texas jury comes up with.

[joerockt]

We had a guy down the street bust a lady upside the head then throw a knife at her mother. I ran down there and beat the dude to a pulp.

:thmsup: That one should have got you in the paper and a merit badge.

[anysia]

I can kinda understand shooting and killing a burgler breaking into your house. But this was his neighbor's house. He could have shot to debilitate the thieves, but instead his chose to kill them instead. As Anysia said, he wanted to be the judge, jury, and executioner. I have a hard time accepting that.

exactly.

they weren't breaking into HIS home. he had no right and was in no danger.

to shoot to kill was just wrong. and i hope any jury can see that. who is to say he isn't equally as insane and stupid as the burlgers? i don't want to live next door to someone who would shoot to kill in any situation. i don't think that is sane at all and someone living wirth that attitude deserves to be shot themselves. it's stupid and insane. it's wrong breeding wrong, two wrongs don't make a right no matter how you slice and dice it.

if the burlgers were already on their way OUT, any harm done to anyone inside of that home was ALREADY DONE. let them leave.

[anysia]

If the old man was in my town and asked for a jury trial. He would get off scot free. The DA wouldn't like the way he was treated if he even pressed charges.

We had a guy down the street bust a lady upside the head then throw a knife at her mother. I ran down there and beat the dude to a pulp. Cops got there. He went to jail, convicted of assault and attempted murder. Out of jail in a year. The cops and courts are worthless. Then you have the do gooders that want the jails clean and humain. So the jails are over crowded and they can't put anymore in. Well screw that. Stack them in like cord wood. They knew they were screwing up by breaking the law. Put them in fields and tents. I don't care.

I applaud the old man for taking action. He warned them. They at the threat of death kept on stealing. Its evindent they had no respect for the person they were ripping off, none for the old man, none for the law. And none for themselves. The world is better off without them.... The shooter should be thanked for his service.

difference being is that you were trying to stop BODILY HARM on someone else.

this MORON was just trying to protect someone's property when the burglers were already LEAVING. he should pay the price. that is NOT a sane person acting there.

[GardenWeasel]

difference being is that you were trying to stop BODILY HARM on someone else.

this MORON was just trying to protect someone's property when the burglers were already LEAVING. he should pay the price. that is NOT a sane person acting there.

Who would folks rather have as a neighbor? I would welcome him as my neighbor anytime.

[joerockt]

Who would folks rather have as a neighbor? I would welcome him as my neighbor anytime.

Yea. Anyone who just starts blasting people at the first sign of trouble is ok in my book.:nuts:

Im curious as to what the homeowners who were burglarized think about this.

[Aviography]

Who would folks rather have as a neighbor? I would welcome him as my neighbor anytime.

Sure hope your kids don't accidentally trespassed into THIS neighbours yard, and God forbid take a river stone from the landscaped area just because they are kids and wanted to play.

OK, this is stretching the imagination somewhat, however the likihood exists of someone else who might looked suspecious but were legitimately at a neighbours house getting shot and killed.

Can YOU live with that? Sure, I have no issue a burglar in YOUR house get blasted away, but it goes a bit too far to go blasting away some possible burglar at someone elses house, deadly force is supposed to be used when YOUR life is threatened, not when neighbours property might have been stolen.

Whatever happened to the concept of civil liberty? If I came out of a friend's house after picking something up for him, and a total stranger (a well intentioned, but crazy neighbour) came over with a gun and said "Stop or I'll shoot!", I am not so sure I want to stick around and take a chance that this person isn't going to shoot anyway, depending on how much I fear for my life, I might just run and take my chances that the crazy man is not a good shot.

This reminded me having to break into a neighbour's house once because they lost their keys about an hour away from the house and called me to get their spare keys for them, I had to jimmy their glass slider door open at the back of the house, I am sure that looked real suspecious to their neighbour at the back who has never seen me before, but I'd soon that they call the cops and leave the arresting and investigation to the cops, rather than come out of their house with guns blazing and me with bullet holes in me from just trying to help out my neighbour get their spare keys!

[GardenWeasel]

LOL! You remind me that I live in the South where gun ownership is common and we know our neighbors, their (sometimes) bratty little kids, and their friends and family!
Its an old concept - kinda strange to find that other folks don't even say 'hi' to their neighbors. :wave: :wave:

[stevencrosbie]

I'd live by that guy:)

Of course...I'd make sure to introduce myself first :D

[oldmansi]

Someone buy that old guy a Texas size steak dinner.

[ericrwalker]

Justice was served. I wish there were more people like this guy. So he shot 2 guys that were ''running away" with someones "loot". Good, because the now those 2 guys will not steal anymore. Maybe the next person they would have robbed would have been YOUR house and when they noticed you were in the house they would have KILLLED YOU. I am gad these scumbags are dead.

Our justice system sucks...if the police caught these guys they would have been back in the streets in less than a month doing the same thing.

[benjamming]

Copied from another forum where this was posted:

"According to Texas law, he should get off.

Texas Penal Code: Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property .
(5) "Property" means:
(A) real property;
(B) tangible or intangible personal property
including anything severed from land; or
(C) a document, including money, that represents
or embodies anything of value."

[ericrwalker]

Good law, they should make it a federal law. Time to clean up this country.

Copied from another forum where this was posted:

"According to Texas law, he should get off.

Texas Penal Code: Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property .
(5) "Property" means:
(A) real property;
(B) tangible or intangible personal property
including anything severed from land; or
(C) a document, including money, that represents
or embodies anything of value."

[stevencrosbie]

I love my home state :D

[anysia]

Copied from another forum where this was posted:

"According to Texas law, he should get off.

Texas Penal Code: Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property .
(5) "Property" means:
(A) real property;
(B) tangible or intangible personal property
including anything severed from land; or
(C) a document, including money, that represents
or embodies anything of value."

wow, texas can now fall off of the face of the earth and i don't think i'd care! (and one of my daughter's grandparents even lives there! not to mention wards and rtf.)

i'd be too afraid to leave my own house (which would have to be bullet proof too....) for fear that some random psycho might shoot at me because they THINK i might be stealing something they think is worth something. :paranoid:

[ericrwalker]

Or better yet, we can just let the criminals go so they can be out on the streets and a month later maybe they would be in your house stealing your crap...maybe even armed.


wow, texas can now fall off of the face of the earth and i don't think i'd care! (and one of my daughter's grandparents even lives there! not to mention wards and rtf.)

i'd be too afraid to leave my own house (which would have to be bullet proof too....) for fear that some random psycho might shoot at me because they THINK i might be stealing something they think is worth something. :paranoid:

[benjamming]

i'd be too afraid to leave my own house (which would have to be bullet proof too....) for fear that some random psycho might shoot at me...

Doesn't that happen from time to time anywhere now anyway - the "psycho" shooting spree. This law doesn't address the "psycho" angle at all.

[princess]

As opposed to living where guns are controlled & no one EVER gets shot.... like California?:lmao: :paranoid:

I think our "controlled" state has more shootings than TX by far!!

I just hope that ones that have the use of a gun for their protection are careful about when they use it. I don't think most THINGS are worth a life. If it were my stuff getting hauled out of my home by a stranger, I don't think I'd want anyone shot over it. If I were getting hauled out of my home by a stranger, I'd HOPE someone would do whatever they could to stop it.... even shooting....if they're a good shot!!

Mistakes will always be made. There's going to be times when someone that does their best to protect their neighbor, their stuff or themselves & someone that wasn't doing wrong will get hurt or killed. THAT in itself doesn't mean I want to HAVE to rely only on police.

The assumption is that there's no such thing as a one time criminal. I think there's been lots of kids that have only broke into a house ONCE. If on that one time they were shot, it would really be ashame.

So understandably the attitude towards the career criminal vs. the kid that made a bad decision should be different.

Maybe we all need to put eye scanners on our property to weed out the career ones & spot lights can illuminate them to make the aim be better!:D

Over & over we hear about those "good kids" the police accidently shoot.... we don't hear about the 20 that had a record as long as a car that got shot by them. These are people trained to do this job & they mess it up. How would we do any better??

There's been great opinions here!!:thmsup: I applaud you all for sharing!!:thmsup:

[gaviota]

I would be very pissed if my neighbor was to shoot a burglar in my home. That could get me and my family into trouble, I don't want a gang of buglars wanting to take revenge on me and my family because of something I didn't do and don't approve.

I like guns, and I have several at home. But its up to ME to decide when to use them in my home, not my neighbor.

[joerockt]

I would be very pissed if my neighbor was to shoot a burglar in my home. That could get me and my family into trouble, I don't want a gang of buglars wanting to take revenge on me and my family because of something I didn't do and don't approve.

I like guns, and I have several at home. But its up to ME to decide when to use them in my home, not my neighbor.

Different circumstances as these two were shot outside of the home that was robbed.

[Bowzer]

Just a little bit of an update per the radio this morning:

Joe Horner is still yet to be reviewed by a Grand Jury so no charges are filed at this time. This weekend, a local group of activists are planning to parade in front of his home in protest of his actions. Quannel X, the organizer, was quoted yesterday saying: "...Let Joe Horner come out to see US with his shotgun...". At the same time, many within the neighborhood where the scenario took place are publicly applauding the actions as a "defender of their community".

So, regardless of views or right/wrong, this will not be something quietly going away for Mr. Horner. It will be interesting to see how much press comes to bear when the Grand Jury's decisions are eventually released. In the worst extreme, I would hate to see another LA riot scene on any scale. I don't think it would or will but just based on the forum activity here, you can appreciate how it's a quick instigator of passionate reactions.

[benjamming]

What a stupid comment for Quannel X to say - typical drivel.

[Bowzer]

Latest Update: After review, today a grand jury stated Joe Horner will not face any criminal charges for this event.

2nd Amendment upheld and this decision...good month for the Constitution.

[ihop4no1]

let the cops do their job.

If only the cops WOULD do their job....:rolleyes:

Round here the only 'job' they do is eat doughnuts and give out traffic tickets!

[EXLNavi]

Just to clarify, the man's name is Joe HORN not Joe Horner.

[Bowzer]

Just to clarify, the man's name is Joe HORN not Joe Horner.

Yep...I can't type...or proofread apparently. My apologies.

[EXLNavi]

No worries, just found it funny that the name went unnoticed for so long!

I'm a bit of a grammar/spelling nazi.

[jmmg]

I am not so sure about the state law, but in Canada, under the Criminal code section 494 cc. (1) and section 25 c.c. and section 27 c.c. This person unless could articulate the reason behind the use of deadly force, if not, he will be charge and in a lot of trouble.

[jeffreyhuhn]

If only the cops WOULD do their job....:rolleyes:

Round here the only 'job' they do is eat doughnuts and give out traffic tickets!

Sounds like you got one of those tickets while they were taking a break from the donut shop.

[jmmg]

to iHOP4on1,

I do not know about Cops in your country that much, but I am sure they are hard working people to serve and protect you and when you think that they are not doing their job? think about how many rules and regulations and codes they have to obey and follow before they could ever do anything, their hands are so tied up by the law makers, don't blame the front line cops, blame the law maker.

[jeffreyhuhn]

Latest Update: After review, today a grand jury stated Joe Horner will not face any criminal charges for this event.

2nd Amendment upheld and this decision...good month for the Constitution.

Chalk up one for the good guys.

[ihop4no1]

Sounds like you got one of those tickets while they were taking a break from the donut shop.

...yeah, instead of busting the REAL criminals! :lmao:

[ihop4no1]

I am not so sure about the state law, but in Canada, under the Criminal code section 494 cc. (1) and section 25 c.c. and section 27 c.c. This person unless could articulate the reason behind the use of deadly force, if not, he will be charge and in a lot of trouble.

Thank God I don't live in Canada, eh.

[jmmg]

You sure that is a police officer---> constable or just a private security guy? I knew there are many thousands of security people in the state dressed and armed just like police officer.

[jeffreyhuhn]

Bullshit!

My last encounter with the police was to ask for directions to the stadium parking lot. All that prick could do was yell at me and my family to "Back up" because they had blocked the exit for the buses and we were in the way. God forbid he get off his butt, come to the window of the car and see what I wanted. At least he could ask me nicely to move.

Public servants my ass!

:furious:

Maybe you should be more aware of your surroundings.

You should post your place of employment here on this forum so we can visit you at work and ask you the same ridiculous question 100 times an hour.

[stevencrosbie]

Glad the burgular is dead and glad the person who took care of this moron is not being punished for doing the right thing.

Regardless of legal or not, I will kill a burgular in my house if given the chance.....


Thank God for the U.S.A.

[jeffreyhuhn]

Maybe you should suck my :censored:

Oh, and last I recall YOU don't pay MY salary!

Childish.

I should have expected it from someone who paints with such a wide brush and characterizes the police as a bunch of donut eating, ticket writing, lazy psuedo public servants. Maybe deep down inside you really wish you were an officer of the law but couldn't pass the psychological. Maybe you are angry at the officer that gave you a speeding ticket and while writing your ticket couldn't have been bothered with all that more serous crime he was letting get away. Maybe you have a prior arrest and now you hate all police because they were picking on you. Or more likely you are a law abiding citizen who doesn't understand anything about law enforcement or what being a police officer is like.



And no thanks. While I respect your preference, I am hetrosexual, have been all my life and I won't go changing for you or anyone else.

I'll be at the donut shop if you need me.

[psyshack]

Glad the burgular is dead and glad the person who took care of this moron is not being punished for doing the right thing.

Regardless of legal or not, I will kill a burgular in my house if given the chance.....


Thank God for the U.S.A.

Yep^^^^^^

We like our laws here in Okiehoma. Dont go screwing around with other peoples stuff here. It could cost you your life. But it Obama gets in we might be southern Canada or the new Russia. So no telling if our make my day law will stand the test of socialism or communist party antics.