(See my 1/12/08 Post below for Post-Install Ponderings)

I received today from Shawn at Sunnyside Acura the rear TL-S 20mm rear sway bar and the front 27.2mm hollow bar AND all of the hardware Shawn said I'd need. I already confirmed via the 7th gen FAQ that he sent me all of the right pieces for the 20mm rear bar, which looks quite beefy to the casual visual inspection! :thumbsup:

I could not find the P/Ns for the hollow front bar, could someone please confirm that I got the right stuff? (BTW, I know it is hollow b/c it is so lightweight, which is a good thing to me!)
One 51300-SEP-A01 ($35.17)
Two 51308-SDA-A00 ($4.48)
Two 51306-SEP-A01 ($3.36)

How can they afford to stay in business at these prices?!? Both bars and all parts were only $68.80 total, plus $15 shipping. WOW! :nuts:

Also, I would appreciate a linkie to that front bar install how-to. I know I've asked before. I apologize in advance.

Please give an update when you are done!

For the front bar how-to, go on the Neuspeed website, find the Neuspeed front sway for your Accord and there will be a link to download a PDF with the instructions. The PDF has pictures in it, so it is really easy to understand.

Then, everywhere you see "Neuspeed" in the PDF, replace with "TL-S"!!! :thmsup:

Wow, never knew how inexpensive this mod was. I read somehwere that
you don't have to lift the car to install these?

Post a review when you're done, I'm interested in doing the same and wondering if it's worth my time/trouble.

Wow, never knew how inexpensive this mod was. I read somehwere that
you don't have to lift the car to install these?

Post a review when you're done, I'm interested in doing the same and wondering if it's worth my time/trouble.

+1... A detailed write up with in process step by step pics would be much appreciated!

+1... A detailed write up with in process step by step pics would be much appreciated!
I am going to use the Neuspeed documentation for the front bar, and the rear bar how-to is covered in the 7th-gen FAQs, I believe. I don't plan to do any photo-documentation or anything like that. Sorry, got kids and a new job and a 74-mile-each-way commute, so a write-up (other than a post on here) probably ain't happenin'.

You should have gone with the front bar from the '07 TL-S :D. Same diameter, but solid instead of hollow.

You should have gone with the front bar from the '07 TL-S :D. Same diameter, but solid instead of hollow.

No, I purposely avoided that one b/c I want less understeer than that combo offers. The hollow one should be better than my current bar and that is all that I am after.

Here's what I learned about the install for the front bar (other than the Neuspeed instructions):
- If using jack/jackstands in lieu of a lift (as I did), don't even THINK about doing the front bar without removing the front tires
- Get the front of the car as high off the ground as possible
- Have some black fast-drying paint available, because you WILL scratch up your sub-frame.
- It would help to have a helper to be a spotter as you try to remove the old bar
- Removing the old bar is a royal pain. What finally worked for me was getting the pass/rt side of the bar slid out from the subframe. Then twist/turn the bar until you are more toward the rear with that pass side of the bar, almost next to the exhaust (more of a fore-aft orientation at this point). Then fin-agle it out of there. That was the only thing that worked for me.
- Neuspeed says the front bar is a 2 hour job. Yeah right. It took me about 4 hours, using jack stands, with no helper, and struggling through half of it because I didn't remove the front tires until 1/2-way through.

Road Test Results:
20mm rear bar
27.2mm hollow front bar
2006 AV6 EX-L 5AT
About 31,000 miles on the odometer
Stock, almost worn-out Michelin Pilot MXM 215/50-17 tires

- I was expecting/hoping for S2000-level of handling. Uh,...no. It feels like it's on rails, and it indeed corners flatter, but it still doesn't quite have that "tossable" feel. This is where the HFP struts/shocks/springs would likely come in handy. I'm not doing that mod for a long time if ever.
- If you're going to go through all the trouble (and the front bar is a decent amount of trouble), I'd say to just go with the 27.2 solid bar in lieu of the hollow bar.
- There is just a "little" oversteer effect (I could hear my tires begin to squeal on the off-ramp at high speed, and I think the rears squealed first, although it was fairly neutral overall)
- This sway bar setup has revealed the limitations of the stock tires; summer tires (in warmer weather) would do wonders. I plan on getting a set of Goodyear F1 A/S soon.
- I installed the rear bar first and drove the car prior to installing the front bar. I definitely feel the 20mm rear bar by itself (with the stock front bar) upsets the balance too much - a bigger front bar should be used in conjunction with the 20mm rear bar.
- The stock 25.4mm front bar feels kind of light. Is it hollow perchance? :dunno:
- I could definitely feel the slight additional unsprung weight/lower compliance of the bigger bars, particularly in the rear. So I detected a 'slight' penalty to ride quality unless driving on perfectly level roads.

SUMMARY:
- The 27.2mm hollow front bar (TL non-S) with the 20mm rear bar (TL-S) on the 7th gen AV6 is a great improvement over stock, especially for the money ($68 total, plus shipping).
- Installing the front bar is a PAIN, but I've seen much worse. There isn't a whole lot to take apart, but removing the old bar SUCKS. installing the new one was easy by comparison.
- For the trouble of installing the front bar, I feel the 27.2 solid TL-S bar would be a better choice and still provide nice balance with the 20mm rear. Still, I probably won't go thru the trouble of swapping out my hollow bar for the solid one. I am done.
- The rear bar is a snap to install; about an hour or less. :thmsup:
- For overall ease and bang-for-the-buck, I could be happy with just installing the 17mm rear bar only, and leave the stock 25.4mm front bar alone.
- I think I'll add a 2006-2007 Accord sedan V6 6MT front strut tower brace at some point as a finshing touch! :thumbsup:

I think you made the right choice going with the hollow bar, despite the fact that you wish you went with the solid. With the solid front bar I notice significantly more understeer than I would like, about as much as I had when the car was all stock. It still feels a lot better though. I've been toying with the idea of swapping it out for the hollow one, and I may end up doing that this coming fall. Maybe my shorter wheelbase changes things a little bit though. Either way, good writeup. What tools were necessary to drop the front subframe?

Either way, good writeup. What tools were necessary to drop the front subframe?
Thanks! Tools were as outlined in the Neuspeed write-up, except they ID'd one frame bolt as 19mm, but it is actually 17mm (bolt head), as are the other sub-frame bolts. So what is needed is basically a 17mm socket and a stout ratchet to drop the subframe. Oh, a floor jack will be needed to lift the rear of the subframe back into place when you are ready to bolt it back up.

Forgot to mention in my write-up: the rear (aft) bolt on the front sway bar pivot bushing brackets is a PAIN too. It's one of those situations where you grab with two finger-tips to try and turn 1/8 turn at a time. Took a lot of time fussing with those things. You WILL need a u-joint socket or u-joint extension. The u-joint socket would be better than the U-J extension (which I had), because it is TIGHT getting at those rear bolts!

Would a pneumatic impact wrench (1/4" drive) be helpful in the install? i.e. were there any particular fasteners that you did loosen by hand but really, really wished you had an impact wrench?

Also, were there sufficient room under the car to operate an impact wrench once the car is jacked up?

(I might still do this come spring time)

Would a pnuematic impact wrench (1/2" drive) be helpful in the install? i.e. were there any particular fasteners that you did loosen by hand but really, really wished you had an impact wrench?

Also, were there sufficient room under the car to operate an impact wrench once the car is jacked up?

(I might still do this come spring time)

The only time I used an impact wrench was to remove the front tires after the car was already in the air (which was b/c I hadn't anticipated needing to remove them). None of the subframe bolts presented much of an obstacle to my 1/2"-drive ratchet. An air ratchet (not impact wrench) might be handy for removing the front sway bar bracket bolts, and 'might' be of use for those tricky rear bracket bolts IF you have a swivel socket (wouldn't work with the u-joint extension I had). I also tried a wobble extension on those rear bracket bolts, but the angle was too great for that.

You would likely want to use a torque wrench good for at least 76 ft-lb for re-tightening the sub-frame bolts. I used a Craftsman 1/2" drive model good for 20 to 150 ft-lb. I also use this one for tightening my lug nuts to exactly 80 ft-lb.

So in summary: the impact wrench is not very essential for this job. A lift, on the other hand, would be a HUGE benefit!

what if you had a pneumatic cutting wheel, would that make getting the front sway bar out a little easier?

But you still have to put the new one back in!

Reminds me of the time I was telling a good buddy who is very knowledgeable about cars, that I had to remove the engine mount of my Integra to change timing belt since the belt loops around the engine mount, he immediately said "Why don't you just cut the old timing belt?".

I couldn't believe he actually said that! So I asked him: "Joe, how do I put the new timing belt back on with the engine mount still in the way?"

There was this long embarrasing pause, then Joe said "Uh, you got a point." :)

but this is what he said

"- Installing the front bar is a PAIN, but I've seen much worse. There isn't a whole lot to take apart, but removing the old bar SUCKS. installing the new one was easy by comparison."

So would cutting the old one in half or something be easier? I doubt anyone is going to want to reinstall the old one to sell the car.

I suspect he meant it was a PAIN to find the right sequence and angle and approach to remove the old bar.

But I'm only guessing, will let OP clarify.

what if you had a pneumatic cutting wheel, would that make getting the front sway bar out a little easier?
That might have made it a little easier since it was easier to put the new bar in. But then again, I put the new bar in the exact way I ended up taking the old bar out. So the trick is seeing the way it has to come out of there, and there's really no way to put it into words. You just have to size it up and struggle for yourself. Once again, a lift would have been a lifesaver over the jackstand method since you'd have more space under the car in which to wrestle the bar.

So, you'd say you're expectations were met?

You'd recommend just doing the 17mm rear bar then?

So, you'd say you're expectations were met?

You'd recommend just doing the 17mm rear bar then?
If you don't want to hassle with the install of the front, then I'd say definitely don't do JUST the 20mm rear. Go with the 17.

If you don't mind hassling with the front, I think doing both bars is a great mod for $68 and some time/blood/sweat/tears. I think my combo is good, but feel the solid bar up front may provide a more OEM balance. Chanke4252 has the solid front bar in conjunction with the 20mm rear and would like something a little more like my set-up. So it's a tough call without actually driving the car for yourself. You'll need to use my info and Chanke's as simply two data points (along with a search/research of other posts on the topic) to help you decide what is best for yourself. It's not a very high-risk or high-cost mod either way, and is well worth it - I am happy!

PS - what model was your BMW? I am now happily free of the repair/maintenance cost of a 1999 540 6-speed. The guy who bought it from me invested - get this - over $30,000 into it over the past year, including an S/C, Brembo kit, Dinan stuff, etc.

I might just go with the 17mm rear bar as I pretty happy with the
handling the way it is. My days of wrenching on my car for hours and hours
are over for now. Not to mention, I used to have full access to air tools and a lift, now I only have my hand tools and jack stands at best.

If you don't want to hassle with the install of the front, then I'd say definitely don't do JUST the 20mm rear. Go with the 17.

If you don't mind hassling with the front, I think doing both bars is a great mod for $68 and some time/blood/sweat/tears. I think my combo is good, but feel the solid bar up front may provide a more OEM balance. Chanke4252 has the solid front bar in conjunction with the 20mm rear and would like something a little more like my set-up. So it's a tough call without actually driving the car for yourself. You'll need to use my info and Chanke's as simply two data points (along with a search/research of other posts on the topic) to help you decide what is best for yourself. It's not a very high-risk or high-cost mod either way, and is well worth it - I am happy!

PS - what model was your BMW? I am now happily free of the repair/maintenance cost of a 1999 540 6-speed. The guy who bought it from me invested - get this - over $30,000 into it over the past year, including an S/C, Brembo kit, Dinan stuff, etc.

I had 2, 1992 325i, lightly modded, full suspension, wheels, bolt ons, etc... and a heavily modded 1989 325is. We swapped in a 2.8liter stroker motor, full KW suspension, 16x9's etc....kicking myself in the arse for selling it.

I used to work on my cars everyday, I'd throw them on the lift and spend hours and hours doing whatever. My wife hated them. Cost wasn't too much of an issue with me because I paid 10%over cost at the bmw dealer I worked for and I was friends with a few master techs.

I am also free of the constant attention my bmws required and I am pretty happy with my accord. I just wish Hondas looked as good as the drove.

I might just go with the 17mm rear bar as I pretty happy with the
handling the way it is. My days of wrenching on my car for hours and hours
are over for now. Not to mention, I used to have full access to air tools and a lift, now I only have my hand tools and jack stands at best.

I agree with you on the 17mm rear-only approach, given your sensibilities (which aren't too far from mine!). It'll be cheap, and you can always go more robust later. I may someday try switching the 20 I have for a 17 (but keep the 27.2 in the front). It's SO easy to replace the rear bar, and I am still trying to decide if I want the detriment to ride quality the 20mm rear bar presents. It isn't much, but I notice the harsher ride - it's a STOUT bar!