"Is Honda the new BMW?"

[JWY]

I found this thread on bimmerfest.com

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262255

[viscott]

Let me start this off by saying i absolutly hate the new accord i feel as if honda stole bmw's stying. Honda i feel is giving the less fortunate a chance to feel what is is like to drive a bmw imposture. Why would anyone want to buy this car? I feel that every person who owns this car are posers and need to save up their money and buy the real deal meaning ( bmw 5 series). Bmw's are Straight up Pure German Muscle, not japanesse shrimp ****tail.. So be a man and buy the real deal not a fake.

I think this is a pretty presumptuous statement. And ironically the people on that forum are beating the guy up for making such a stupid statement.

I say this:

1. I don't think BMW's are a reliable car.
2. I don't think they give you value for your money spent vs. other cars.
3. I would never buy a BMW
4. I can afford anything I want
5. I think the Accord Coupe is better looking than a BMW

So to each their own. But get off your high horse. Fake, now that's funny!

I think this statement sums it up for me!

The unpretentious Honda badge lets you luxuriate incognito, appealing to those of us who want pampering but like to keep a low profile while getting it.

[mwmcginn]

I think this is a pretty presumptuous statement.

I say this:

1. I don't think BMW's are a reliable car.
2. I don't think they give you value for your money spent vs. other cars.
3. I would never buy a BMW
4. I can afford anything I want
5. I think the Accord Coupe is better looking than a BMW

So to each their own. But get off your high horse. Fake, now that's funny!

I think this statement sums it up for me!

The unpretentious Honda badge lets you luxuriate incognito, appealing to those of us who want pampering but like to keep a low profile while getting it.


Funny stuff. The mitsubishi galant and lincoln LS were much closer to stealing BMW looks.

Agree with almost everything you said.

My brother owns a 5 series, and after a long trip in my car, he started talking about getting an Accord. This was all helped by the fact that he had been at the dealer 3 times in 3 months, and all trips were expensive.


That said, they may share some looks, but they are not the same car. I bet the BMW is a lot more fun to drive, but I sure dont want one.


Pretty cool how the rest of the folks on there respond to that thread though.

[catbert430]

That was an interesting read.
They shredded the original poster for bashing Hondas.

[namegoeshere]

OMG!!! What a 'tard. http://www.acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[GigaS27]

My brother owns a 5 series, and after a long trip in my car, he started talking about getting an Accord. This was all helped by the fact that he had been at the dealer 3 times in 3 months, and all trips were expensive.




Aren't BMW's maintenance free? I know all my friend's BMW's are...Anyhow this has nothing to do with title.

[mwmcginn]

During the warranty, I think the maint is paid for, or you just pre pay it in your price. After that though. I think it gets pretty tough.

[VTECaddict]

i'd guess that a lot of BMW owners were once or still are honda owners. both companies produce mighty fine pieces of engineering.

BMW owners that bash "lesser" brands are the brand snobs who only care about the status symbol of their BMW or are just really immature kids born into really wealthy families.

yes, all maintenance on BMWs is paid for within the 4 year 50k warranty.

[paulisme]

just the fact that they're comparing 2 car companies in totally different classes is ridiculous.

[Mr. Furious]

He definitely earns bonus points for coining the word "imposture." :lmao:

[dking99]

I have had 3 people comment that my Coupe looks like "a BMW." My Dad, The Honda dealership Owner, and a BMW driver. I dont think they mean that they would mistake it for a BMW or anything like that, but I think they mean the general sportiness and classiness combined with a portion of the body style REMINDS them of a BMW. It is a sharp car. It's like say that a co-worker looks like a celebrity. You are not saying that if you ran into them you would be asking for thier autograph because you thought it wad really them...you get the point.

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

LOL this is awesome

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3005143&postcount=41

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

ahahahahahhaha viscott

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3008033&postcount=58

[catbert430]

What makes it all the more hilarious (and the other members ripped him for it) was that he has such a superior attitude toward the lesser beings that buy Hondas. His ride is a 1997 528i (which reads 582i in his signature).
Puh-leeze! He probably spent more money in repairs in the past year than the car is worth.

But, wait. Maybe everybody is wrong. Maybe it's really a 582i - a one of a kind custom 5-series with an 8.2 litre V-12?

[RDS]

I think this is a pretty presumptuous statement. And ironically the people on that forum are beating the guy up for making such a stupid statement.

I say this:

1. I don't think BMW's are a reliable car.
2. I don't think they give you value for your money spent vs. other cars.
3. I would never buy a BMW
4. I can afford anything I want
5. I think the Accord Coupe is better looking than a BMW

So to each their own. But get off your high horse. Fake, now that's funny!

I think this statement sums it up for me!

The unpretentious Honda badge lets you luxuriate incognito, appealing to those of us who want pampering but like to keep a low profile while getting it.


These statements can be backed up with facts. Unlike the quote you posted. I enjoy reading people talk about BMW like they're something special, considering Chris Bangle is generally hated throughout automotive design. Honda's designs make suck but they can't be traced back to one man. lmao.

[mb27]

I think the two can co-exist quite nicely :)

[RTexasF]

I have never had the pleasure of driving a BMW and I very much wish I could. Beloved warranty or not even Bimmer owners admit that service visits are a bit more often than they would like.

Of the friends we have that own Bimmers, all complain of the problems. Some bought new some bought used but all, without exception, are talking Toyota & Honda when they are able to get out from under their current cars. Hardly a cross of the population, we have three friends with Bimmers and none are happy once the status BS is out of the way after a few drinks.

That alone (finances notwithstanding) would keep me away. Others buy them and have no problems :dunno:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________

mb27 the two in the garage look like vanilla ice cream twins, I love it!

[chanke4252]

as far as driving dynamics go, sure bmw has an edge on most hondas. but status means pretty much nothing when you are shelling out for all the repairs. Maybe older bmw's were blatantly superior cars, but the new ones just don't have the durability. I'd say that lexus is becoming the new bmw if anything.

But yah, that guy is an idiot. I could buy a 97 5-series without an issue with money. The fact is that it has nothing to do with how much they cost to buy, but rather how much money in excess of what is necessary do I feel like throwing at a car that can be outperformed by many more current "lesser" vehicles in acceleration and mileage. I mean rwd is fun and all, but 190hp out of a 2.8L 6-cyl kind of sucks by today's standards.

With that said, if BMW and Audi put a little more effort into reliability I would jump into either of those in a hurry. I LOVE the way that the A4 drives and I am a fan of the 3-series. However, common sense has prevented me from doing so thus far.

[blks2k02]

hahaha... very interesting...

i thought he will be driving something in the line of M3, M5, or the Dinan 7, when i saw the line that said something about german muscle...

ignorant SOB...

[termigator]

The guy's comments reminds me of a joke a friend told me a long time ago.

What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?

A porcupine has pricks on the outside!:lmao::lmao::lmao:

[jblaust]

Honda is better than BMW!! BMW are pieces of crap! They dont make them like they used too! You have to be rich just to maintain them. Its all a yuppie status symbol everybody has got to keep up with the Jones. I would rather own a Lexus or an Acura than BMW.

[John_R]

I have had 3 people comment that my Coupe looks like "a BMW." My Dad, The Honda dealership Owner, and a BMW driver. I dont think they mean that they would mistake it for a BMW or anything like that, but I think they mean the general sportiness and classiness combined with a portion of the body style REMINDS them of a BMW. It is a sharp car. It's like say that a co-worker looks like a celebrity. You are not saying that if you ran into them you would be asking for thier autograph because you thought it wad really them...you get the point.

Funny you say that, also happened to me when I got my Coupe in January.

Owner of a sun tanning salon thought my car was a BMW.

Also a couple from Barbados were staring at my car when I got out of a coffee shop. The husband was like a little kid and bombarded me with questions about the car. He asked if I would mind if he sat in it.
I let him, and his wife says why did u let him sit, now he won't get out of it :lmao:

She then says she will blame me if he buys one, i told her thats fine, she can blame me, but in time she will love me for it :lmao::lmao::lmao:

3rd person was a client of mine which also thought it was a BMW from a distance.

Having said that I have also owned (leased) a BMW which for me was a nightmare to own because electronics problems. Thank god I took a 2 yr lease only.

I then jumped ship to Audi A8 had FEWER problems and Audi's MMI was much simpler to use and a better car to drive in the Canadian winters we have here on the east coast. Oh yeah, and the interior of an A8 rocks :thmsup:

[kpulse]

bmws are fun as hell to drive ,I always like to beat up my dads 335 a bit, but the two brands are in completely different ranges and can therefore cannot simply be compared. There are some things I like about my honda that bmw just cant supply be with, such as reliability, but bmws also have their own obvious advantages. I like both brands and repect the drivers of each but i most definitely do not like people who talk trash about a good looking car just because they think their brand is better than the other.

[Darth Do'Urden]

I heard the "looks like a BMW " comment several when I worked at the dealership.

And I'd never own a BMW either. Nightmare on the maintenance (and eventually the wallet). Resale isn't all that great either due to everyone knowing how expensive they are to fix, and how hard it can be to find someone to work on 'em other than the dealerships.

[sjlee]

1. I don't think BMW's are a reliable car.
2. I don't think they give you value for your money spent vs. other cars.
3. I would never buy a BMW
4. I can afford anything I want
5. I think the Accord Coupe is better looking than a BMW
[/B]

1. Consumer Reports would disagree with you. They have actually given the 3-series and Honda Accord the same predicted reliability rating.

2. That's true for any luxury brand.

The rest are more personal preference.

[chanke4252]

1. Consumer Reports would disagree with you. They have actually given the 3-series and Honda Accord the same predicted reliability rating.

2. That's true for any luxury brand.

The rest are more personal preference.

I would highly doubt that this rating is given by them for anything but short term reliability. Consumer Reports may give this rating for first or second year cars, but the truth is that most cars, even the most unreliable, have few to no issues for about the first three years of service. Hell, even Audi, VW and Saabs will be reliable for the first couple of years. Aside from that, it's pretty common knowledge that consumer reports is hardly a reliable source of info, so even if they did rate long-term reliability high it doesn't mean a ton. Sure, they are fun to read, but that's about all the value they have. The information they supply should be taken with a grain of salt and verified through other, more reliable sources.

[namegoeshere]

1. Consumer Reports would disagree with you. They have actually given the 3-series and Honda Accord the same predicted reliability rating.

The same? Not exactly.

This is the latest I could find on their site regarding predicted reliability.

While the RWD 328i sedan is rated as very good, it's no where near "the same" as the Accord. The 335i and AWD 328i sedans are rated even worse.

I'd probably consider buying a 3 series though. They're fun cars to drive. But I'd dump it as soon as the 4 year/50K warranty was gone or very soon thereafter, unless I got lucky and actually got a reliable one.

[daavo]

I wouldn't touch any European car without having a full warranty for the full term of ownership. Not worth driving around and worrying what's going to break next. I learned my lesson the hard way after buying an Audi.

One of my old employees bought a used 745i and two month's later the transmission died. He only had 2k left on the warranty and if he didn't have a warranty he would have been crushed with a monster of a repair bill. He sold a reliable Accord Coupe to get the BMW. Not a smart move.

[jang859]

lol i saw viscotts post in that thread and cracked up inside. he has one post on the forum. no words. just that sweet front/profile pic of his car going down the road...

LOLOLOL. well put viscott!

[alpha]

This kid needs to grow up. I say kid because I would not be surprised if he is under 20.

The third richest man in the world doesn't drive a BMW. Is he less fortunate?

[RDS]

1. Consumer Reports would disagree with you. They have actually given the 3-series and Honda Accord the same predicted reliability rating.

2. That's true for any luxury brand.

The rest are more personal preference.

Predicted reliability and ACTUAL reliability are two VERY different things. I'd like to hear somebody say that when their Bimmer is sitting at the service deparment more often than it's driven.

*shake my head @ my dad's bimmer*

[ERICH80]

I Think I Said This In My First Post But I Work At A Bmw Dealer And I've Been Here For Three Years And I Have Seen Nothing But Service Nightmares With Bmw's. I Am On A First Name Basis With Some Customers B/c They Are Here For Service So Often. Maintenance Is Covered For 4 Years Or 50,000 Miles But You Better Hope That You Don't Need Tires B/c You Can't Plug A Runflat Tire And They Run About $300 Bucks A Piece. We Have A Really Good Employee Lease Program, I Could Lease A 335i Coupe For $350 A Month But I Don't Want To Deal With All The Problems. A Lot Of 335's Have Fuel Pump Problems And Actually One Of My Service Loaners Had One Of The Turbos Bust And We Had To Put A New Motor In It. The Car Only Had 8,000 Miles On It. People Beat The Service Loaners Relentlessly But It Gives You A Good Idea About Build Quality Or Should I Say Lack There Of.

[Chinadog]

Honda i feel is giving the less fortunate a chance to feel what is is like to drive a bmw imposture. Why would anyone want to buy this car? I feel that every person who owns this car are posers and need to save up their money and buy the real deal meaning ( bmw 5 series).

People are entitled to their opinions. If he doesn't like the car for whatever reason, no problem. What gets me off is the statement about "less fortunate". Less fortunate? Less fortunate? I chose the vehicle for specific reasons, price point, mpg, insurance rate, reliability, etc. Could I afford a 5 series? Sure. Would I want to spend 20K more for a car just to go back and forth the work? No freakin' way. I'd rather invest that money or put it in my kids college fund. I call that a smart decision versus being "less fortunate".

This guy probably drives this car thinking its a status symbol or something. Must be tough to drive with his head up his ass.

Bud

[StudmasterSteve]

I wonder how a 08 accord would be with a turbo or supercharger :D

[pahns51]

I think the recent styling trend for Honda has been to takes some BMW styling and wrap it in a Honda package. Under the skin it's pure Honda. I do like the safety that's standard. A Honda Volvo?

[frainc]

Sitting in the parking lot, a man with a 6-7 year old BMW 5 series, drives to my car and call's me out.

How do you like the car (I love it!), got the V6, how's it feel when it goes from 6 to 3 cly., fine, don't feel or hear it at all.

Your car looks like a MB or a BMW, looks really good and I like it. Best of luck with it!

This is the 2nd. time a man in a BMW told me the he likes the new accord. I now have this car for only a month and I never got any kind of "I like it" from others with my 06 Accord.

The whole package of this car, to me, is so much better than my 06. I know some of you 7th. gens. don't think so, but I am enjoying this car more and more every day.

[reframmellator]

Gosh, I hope Honda is not the new BMW. Apparently the latest 3-series versions of the Ultimate Driving Machine can handle at most one dipstick - an owner installed accessory when (s)he gets behind the wheel. Here's an excerpt from the infamous letter in the July '07 Car and Driver:

Your readers should be aware that the refinement of BMW now includes only speedo, tach, gas, and mpg gauges for instruments. . . . During my time with a 328i, an oil can dripping into what looked like water flashed on the screen several times. I learned this was the "add oil" indication. Unable to find the dipstick to check, I went to the dealer. They advised me there is no longer any dipstick in the BMW 3-series except the M3 and that the transition started in 2006. There have been a few hiccups with this new engineering breakthrough. The sensors occasionally malfunction, and customers have added oil when they shouldn't have. I was told the proper way to check the oil is to return the car to your BMW dealership and it will put the vehicle on a rack, drain the oil, measure it, and then reinstall the oil in the car. Two dealers have told me BMW doesn't want customers monkeying around under the hood. In my judgment, this new technology paradigm by BMW electrical engineers surpasses iDrive for idiocy...

[termigator]

Gosh, I hope Honda is not the new BMW. Apparently the latest 3-series versions of the Ultimate Driving Machine can handle at most one dipstick - an owner installed accessory when (s)he gets behind the wheel. Here's an excerpt from the infamous letter in the July '07 Car and Driver:

Your readers should be aware that the refinement of BMW now includes only speedo, tach, gas, and mpg gauges for instruments. . . . During my time with a 328i, an oil can dripping into what looked like water flashed on the screen several times. I learned this was the "add oil" indication. Unable to find the dipstick to check, I went to the dealer. They advised me there is no longer any dipstick in the BMW 3-series except the M3 and that the transition started in 2006. There have been a few hiccups with this new engineering breakthrough. The sensors occasionally malfunction, and customers have added oil when they shouldn't have. I was told the proper way to check the oil is to return the car to your BMW dealership and it will put the vehicle on a rack, drain the oil, measure it, and then reinstall the oil in the car. Two dealers have told me BMW doesn't want customers monkeying around under the hood. In my judgment, this new technology paradigm by BMW electrical engineers surpasses iDrive for idiocy...

I'm sure those folks at Car & Driver will still go GAGA over the 3 series no matter what.:thumbsdow:thumbsdow

[psyshack]

As much as I really wanted the new Accord to tickle my fancy. It hasn't. And there still not selling worth a hoot here. But the BMW's don't stay on the lot.

So it looks like Honda and Acura have nothing I want except CR-Z. Which will be my daily driver. Once they get thru the first year of production. I learned with my 06 Civic. Hondas shouldn't be trusted for first year production. So CR-Z will be second year production purchase.

The Mazda3 has kind of spoiled me. It handles great. And has only had two minor issues. Both of which I fixed. The over all road manors on the Mazda3 has made it very apparent,,,, I want more! Of the good things it offers.

But I don't want a FWD hot rod. If I did and could except a ugly wagon then the speed3 would fit the bill. Psy aint driving no wagon. If Mazda would put the speed3 engine and running gear in a 3 Coupe or Sedan. I would buy one. Hell if they put the speed3 engine and running gear in the up coming Mazda2 and made it RWD I would buy two of them. :) That would be a shifter cart with air bags. ( drool )

So that leaves me in a bit of a mess. Enter the BMW Series 1 and G37s. Ive driven the G35's. And they seem like 350z with a tad more room. Ive always like the 350z. But the drivers seat and leg room are to cramped for me. Better than a S2000. But not by much.

Ive driven the G37s many times. and I like it a lot! Ive also driven the BMW 3 Coupe with the turbo. Its a nice handling car. Its amazing how well it drives. So when talk of the Series 1 started. I started listening. And now I want to drive one something awful!

Im concerned a little with the reliability issue of BMW. Everybody I know thats had a 5,6 or 7 have had nothing but problems with them. But the 3, Z3 and Z4 owners have had little to no problem. One of my brothers bought a 5 for his wife and himself one of the big 7's. He had nothing but problems with them. After some time. He traded them for a TL and RL. While the Acura's haven't left them stranded. They have had some issues also. And hes very clear on the fact they don't drive like the BMW's at all. He had a 3 sedan before buying the 5 and 7. And never had so much as a squeak or problem with it in the 150k miles he drove it.

I very well could be buying a 135i with sport package. Or a G37s. While the G37s does battle very well against the 3 series coupe. I don't think it will fare well against a pissed of 1 Series Coupe.

What ever I buy will not be a daily driver. It will be my garage queen. Kept clean and driven very hard when pulled out. I like the idea of the 4 year 50k mile maint. program on the BMW. And Im sure the run flats will be roasted in very short order. And from talking with the Infinity dealer a bit. It sounds like I can work some invoice magic and maybe even push them over the edge with some extended warrenty. :)

So its now a waiting game. Waiting on the CR-Z and the Series 1. Man can't live on the hypermile a lone. :) I look forward to my next new car buying spree. :D

[termigator]

It's weird how everybody keeps comparing just about every Japanese car to the BMW except the Lexus. I'm sure I'm biased since I own one, but I think the IS350 is probably the best alternative to the 3 series. I'm sure it's handling dynamics is not as good as the BMW, but it will beat it in just about everything else...e.g. nicer interior, superior build quality and do I even have to bother saying it? RELIABILITY!!!! And if you're into that status crap, it has that too.:yes:

Also, the BMW folks shouldn't be the ones who are insulted. It should be Accord owners who are insulted. Why would anybody who owns an Accord want to be compared to something that spends more time on the rack than on the road?:thumbsdow

[frainc]

It's weird how everybody keeps comparing just about every Japanese car to the BMW except the Lexus. I'm sure I'm biased since I own one, but I think the IS350 is probably the best alternative to the 3 series. I'm sure it's handling dynamics is not as good as the BMW, but it will beat it in just about everything else...e.g. nicer interior, superior build quality and do I even have to bother saying it? RELIABILITY!!!! And if you're into that status crap, it has that too.:yes:

Also, the BMW folks shouldn't be the ones who are insulted. It should be Accord owners who are insulted. Why would anybody who owns an Accord want to be compared to something that spends more time on the rack than on the road?:thumbsdow

I'm not insulted, I just laugh to myself that it's coming from a BMW owner. This is one reason why I have this car, because it's not spending time on the rack but on the road.:)

[jackpop]

I Think I Said This In My First Post But I Work At A Bmw Dealer And I've Been Here For Three Years And I Have Seen Nothing But Service Nightmares With Bmw's. I Am On A First Name Basis With Some Customers B/c They Are Here For Service So Often. Maintenance Is Covered For 4 Years Or 50,000 Miles But You Better Hope That You Don't Need Tires B/c You Can't Plug A Runflat Tire And They Run About $300 Bucks A Piece. We Have A Really Good Employee Lease Program, I Could Lease A 335i Coupe For $350 A Month But I Don't Want To Deal With All The Problems. A Lot Of 335's Have Fuel Pump Problems And Actually One Of My Service Loaners Had One Of The Turbos Bust And We Had To Put A New Motor In It. The Car Only Had 8,000 Miles On It. People Beat The Service Loaners Relentlessly But It Gives You A Good Idea About Build Quality Or Should I Say Lack There Of.


You would have to be crazy not to lease a BMW 335i for 350 a month..

That is crazy, i pay 416.36 a month for the accord..


i have never had any problems with my car so far, except for the car not opening the door when i touch the handle.. i have to physically press unlock.. but its all fixed, The same thing happened to a friends 760li. The guy said it was a common problem..


And wow, A busted turbo, ive never herd of that in the 3 series, thats intense.. I would hate to deal with something like that, I would be driving a loaner X3 for a long wile, and a whole engine swap? cant they just replace the turbos.

[Darth Do'Urden]

You would have to be crazy not to lease a BMW 335i for 350 a month..

That is crazy, i pay 416.36 a month for the accord...

And that highly appealing 350/mo. is with how many thousands of dollars down?

[mech_e]

I'd seriously be interested in seeing how his status symbol straight 6 with 190hp/207ftlbs (and likely a slushbox) would do against my "less fortunate" 4banger MT at 160/161. With his extra 400lbs curb weight (not factoring in the weight of his soon-to-be-bruised ego), I think it'd be reasonably close. Not to mention I'd get better gas mileage, and I wouldn't have to hit the dealer afterwards.:nuts:

[alpha]

I'd seriously be interested in seeing how his status symbol straight 6 with 190hp/207ftlbs (and likely a slushbox) would do against my "less fortunate" 4banger MT at 160/161. With his extra 400lbs curb weight (not factoring in the weight of his soon-to-be-bruised ego), I think it'd be reasonably close. Not to mention I'd get better gas mileage, and I wouldn't have to hit the dealer afterwards.:nuts:
I'd be even more interested in seeing him up against a V6 Accord..

[StudmasterSteve]

I will also note that common cars are begining to look more and more a like then they used to back in the 70's and 80's.With vehicles there are only so many ways you can change a car to have better this or that before they all start to look the same within a certain price range.

[termigator]

I Think I Said This In My First Post But I Work At A Bmw Dealer And I've Been Here For Three Years And I Have Seen Nothing But Service Nightmares With Bmw's. I Am On A First Name Basis With Some Customers B/c They Are Here For Service So Often. Maintenance Is Covered For 4 Years Or 50,000 Miles But You Better Hope That You Don't Need Tires B/c You Can't Plug A Runflat Tire And They Run About $300 Bucks A Piece. We Have A Really Good Employee Lease Program, I Could Lease A 335i Coupe For $350 A Month But I Don't Want To Deal With All The Problems. A Lot Of 335's Have Fuel Pump Problems And Actually One Of My Service Loaners Had One Of The Turbos Bust And We Had To Put A New Motor In It. The Car Only Had 8,000 Miles On It. People Beat The Service Loaners Relentlessly But It Gives You A Good Idea About Build Quality Or Should I Say Lack There Of.

The fact that you work at a BMW dealership but drive a Honda reminds me of this time I took my mother's 95' E320 to the Mercedes dealership a while back. There was an oil leak and, lacking any knowledge of the inner workings of European vehicles, I took it to the local dealership. The advisor told me that it was some gasket that they were going to have to replace, but they would have to take the whole engine out to do it. The car's warranty just ran out, but he was able to convince Mercedes to cover the cost since it was going to cost two arms and a leg and it happened so close after the warranty expiration. I was relieved, but that didn't stop me from complaining about the build quality of those cars and the advisor replied, "Why do you think I drive a Honda?!":D

[Aviography]

A few years ago, a new high end BMW Z car (Z4 or Z5, I can't remember exactly now), broke down at a local race track, the driver was only there to watch somes races and his car simply died as he was about to leave, he couldn't even roll his power window up and it looked like it was about to rain heavily too.

Fortunately the flat-bed tow truck showed up before it started to rain, but the electric wench broke when the BMW was 1/2 up the ramp!

The poor, embarrased, and clearly upset BMW owner had to wait for a second flat-bed tow truck to arrive before his car could be safely towed away, and lucky that someone pitied him to loan him a tarp in the mean time which he wrapped around the car to prenvent the rain from driving into his $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ broken car!

[termigator]

Got this from the ClubLexus forum. Check it out:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163972

[ERICH80]

The Reason They Replaced The Motor Was Because The Idiot Customer Who Had The Car Thought It Was Funny To Beat The Hell Out Of The Car. Even Though There Was Something Clearly Wrong He Just Kept Driving It.the Guy Was In The Car For Like A Month, He Stole The Rubber Mats Out Of The Car, Returned It Filty And With No Gas, Then Says To Me " Uh Dude, Somethings Wrong With Yure Car". So I Went For A Ride With Him And There Was This Horrible Noise So I Asked Him How Long Was It Like That And He Tried To Say It Was Like That When He Took It. He Had The Nerve To Laugh At Me And He Said I Had No Way To Prove He Was Responsible. The Management Decided To Let It Go Because His Parents Have Bought Like 7 Or 8 From Us And It Wasn't Worth It To Pursue The Issue Any Further Which I Think Is Bullshit But What Do I Know. Needless To Say He Won't Be Getting Another Bmw Loaner Again.

[Aviography]

ERICH80,

Why is the first character of every word you typed capitalized? It's really annoying!

[ERICH80]

SORRY I'M ANNOYING YOU BUT I'M AT WORK AND MY KEYBOARD IS BROKEN(CAPS LOCK IS STUCK DOWN) SO FORWHATEVER REASON WHEN I POST ONLY THE FIRST LETTER OF EACH WORD IS CAPS. DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO HIT THE SHIFT KEY BEFORE EVERY WORD. TRUST ME IT ANNOYS ME TOO, BUT UNTIL THE IT DEPARTMENT GETS ME A NEW KEYBOARD I'LL HAVE TO JUST DEAL WITH IT. ONCE AGAIN I'M SORRY. CAN YOU FIND IT IN YOUR HEART TO FORGIVE ME?CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?:sorry:

[Aviography]

Oh sure we can forgive you when it's an equipment malfunction, but is your employer going to let you off the hook for browsing on this forum at work on company time?

:)

[ERICH80]

I Do A Good Job So Nobody Says Anything To Me. I Have A Lot Of Down Time To Kill. My Bosses Are Cool As Shit And They Like Me So Its All Good.

[mb27]

Erich80: please just hold or tape down your shift key when you post a message here. All lower case is much easier to read than having the first letter of every word capitalized.

[ERICH80]

Happy now?

[corpnupe85]

The members of this forum owe ERICH80 an apology. This is a Honda Accord forum, not a forum discussing how to enter entries on forums.:dunno:

[krazyfiend]

The members of this forum owe ERICH80 an apology. This is a Honda Accord forum, not a forum discussing how to enter entries on forums.:dunno:

I had my ideas of what his issue was, stuck caps key...or a janky phone internet interface/web browser that was CAPing everything he submitted.

It's not really, HOW he should be posting..but just global forum etiquette being resonated. Honestly, I can deal with it but I know some folks out there just are completely alienated by such posts, but he explained himself and that's sufficient (for me).

[ERICH80]

No big deal. I don't want to piss anybody off. The bottom line here is I really need a new keyboard.

[Aviography]

Erich80,

Don't sweat it, however I doubt a new keyboard will fix your problem, it sounds like something quirky has happened to the computer system you are using, perhaps you can try to post in another forum to see if this happens too.

[sjlee]

I would highly doubt that this rating is given by them for anything but short term reliability. Consumer Reports may give this rating for first or second year cars, but the truth is that most cars, even the most unreliable, have few to no issues for about the first three years of service. Hell, even Audi, VW and Saabs will be reliable for the first couple of years. Aside from that, it's pretty common knowledge that consumer reports is hardly a reliable source of info, so even if they did rate long-term reliability high it doesn't mean a ton. Sure, they are fun to read, but that's about all the value they have. The information they supply should be taken with a grain of salt and verified through other, more reliable sources.

Consumer Reports only has an overall "Predicted Reliability" rating... not a short-term one and a long-term one.

In addition, they get their data from owner surveys. What are more reliable sources for vehicle reliability data?

[sjlee]

The same? Not exactly.

This is the latest I could find on their site regarding predicted reliability.

While the RWD 328i sedan is rated as very good, it's no where near "the same" as the Accord. The 335i and AWD 328i sedans are rated even worse.

I'd probably consider buying a 3 series though. They're fun cars to drive. But I'd dump it as soon as the 4 year/50K warranty was gone or very soon thereafter, unless I got lucky and actually got a reliable one.

That's interesting because the issue of Consumer Reports that I read listed the new Accord as a half red circle... same as the BMW 3-series. According to that screenshot, it would appear that is has a full red circle. I wonder why the difference? I'll see which issues I saw them in tonight.

[James.uk]

When you mention "reliability" I think you are perhaps forgetting the BMW's fitted with Diesel engines!! In Europe that car is the bees-knees, no one really wants a petrol engined BMW these days.. And with a diesel one ave 45-50 mpg who can blame them?

Personaly, I would love a BMW 525 TD SE auto.. But even the 1994's are still fetching well over £2,000 (4,000$) some of whom have 200k on the clock!!!

By comparison, I would be lucky to get more than £1,200 for my 1996 Accord and it is top spec, and in lovely condition, inside and out.. :yes:

Overall though, I think the VW passat TD manual gearbox with all the bits is prob the best bet in the 10 yr old + s/hand car market here in the UK..

As new cars are very heavily taxed, it is NOT a good idea to buy new here, so people do tend to buy good used cars when seeking value for money.. :thmsup:
.

[sjlee]

The same? Not exactly.

This is the latest I could find on their site regarding predicted reliability.

While the RWD 328i sedan is rated as very good, it's no where near "the same" as the Accord. The 335i and AWD 328i sedans are rated even worse.

I'd probably consider buying a 3 series though. They're fun cars to drive. But I'd dump it as soon as the 4 year/50K warranty was gone or very soon thereafter, unless I got lucky and actually got a reliable one.

In the March 2008 issue, they reviewed the 328i, the CTS, the C300 and the 9-3. The predicted reliability listed for the 328i is "Very good" (half red circle - page 51, which is exactly the same rating they have listed for the G35, the TL, and the new Accord (on page 57).

[bluestars80]

The only problem with an Accord is how do you look your country club buddies in the eye when you drive up in one??

I have a solution, don't join a country club........:)

I have driven WAY more prestigious and expensive cars than my Accord, but the Accord maintenance costs are 200-300% less, and that to me is intriguing..........:)

[WisAccord]

Before I purchased my Accord, I considered an A-4 and 3 series. The Accord was much better in the following areas:

price
ownership costs
fuel economy
reliability
value

No regrets since getting my coupe.:banana: I feel much more confident taking my coupe to 150k miles (and farther) than I would with either an A-4 or 3 series.

[termigator]

Before I purchased my Accord, I considered an A-4 and 3 series. The Accord was much better in the following areas:

price
ownership costs
fuel economy
reliability
value

No regrets since getting my coupe.:banana: I feel much more confident taking my coupe to 150k miles (and farther) than I would with either an A-4 or 3 series.

Your list is all good (I totally agree BTW), but I think the two main reasons most people would buy the A-4 or 3 series are status and driver involvement and they are willing to overlook the weak points (e.g. the five that you mentioned). Whether we agree with that or not is moot. We enjoy our cars for what they do for us and they curse their cars everyday for breaking down on them while scoffing at Honda drivers for being "less fortunate posers.":yes:

[Tuolumne]

Sorry to bring this back, but I have go agree that the OP on that other forum is a moron.

Plenty of kids drive down from Blackhawk in their daddys 335i and act as if they are god.

With that said, comparing a BMW to a Honda is stupid. Nobody cross shops a 3-series and Accord. Maybe a select few on here, but in reality, that's not common. If you want to compare Lexus to BMW, that's worthwhile perhaps...But at the day, driving a BMW is a special experience that no Accord is going to give you. I had the pleasure of driving a 550i a few months ago and needless to say, it "feels" like a BMW. It stops on a dime, accelerates like a bat out of hell and handles like its on rails. When I stepped back into my Accord, I felt :(

[arasheht]

Jelousy at its peak...i think this is one pissed off bimmer owner that wishes he would have spent his money more efficiently on something else.

[Dadshouse08]

Sorry to bring this back, but I have go agree that the OP on that other forum is a moron.

Plenty of kids drive down from Blackhawk in their daddys 335i and act as if they are god.

With that said, comparing a BMW to a Honda is stupid. Nobody cross shops a 3-series and Accord. Maybe a select few on here, but in reality, that's not common. If you want to compare Lexus to BMW, that's worthwhile perhaps...But at the day, driving a BMW is a special experience that no Accord is going to give you. I had the pleasure of driving a 550i a few months ago and needless to say, it "feels" like a BMW. It stops on a dime, accelerates like a bat out of hell and handles like its on rails. When I stepped back into my Accord, I felt :(

Yeah, my brother is in the Navy and he has a M3 and already wants to goto the track when he goes on leave I told him yeah right:lmao::lmao::lmao:

[anysia]

The fact that you work at a BMW dealership but drive a Honda reminds me of this time I took my mother's 95' E320 to the Mercedes dealership a while back. There was an oil leak and, lacking any knowledge of the inner workings of European vehicles, I took it to the local dealership. The advisor told me that it was some gasket that they were going to have to replace, but they would have to take the whole engine out to do it. The car's warranty just ran out, but he was able to convince Mercedes to cover the cost since it was going to cost two arms and a leg and it happened so close after the warranty expiration. I was relieved, but that didn't stop me from complaining about the build quality of those cars and the advisor replied, "Why do you think I drive a Honda?!":D

:lmao: this is what stevel finds himself thinking alot too. he says it outloud to coworkers and the guys he knows at honda, but i don't think he says it to the regular customers with their audis. but yes, he drives hondas and acuras because he doesn't want to deal with the problems that audi, bmw, mercedes, etc have.

[djseto]

What a moron. He assumes that people who buy an accord can't afford a BMW. I LOVE my new my 6speed Coupe and for what I need it for, it does just fine. I could have easily bought a new M3 or S5 (I REALLY like that car), but the smarter side of me said the Accord does the job just fine. If people think a BMW really is the ultimate driving experience, they need to aim higher. Go drive a 911 GT3 or a Gallardo.....now those are real driving experiences.

[Dadshouse08]

What a moron. He assumes that people who buy an accord can't afford a BMW. I LOVE my new my 6speed Coupe and for what I need it for, it does just fine. I could have easily bought a new M3 or S5 (I REALLY like that car), but the smarter side of me said the Accord does the job just fine. If people think a BMW really is the ultimate driving experience, they need to aim higher. Go drive a 911 GT3 or a Gallardo.....now those are real driving experiences.

The 911 is a SICK driving experience.... I actually WON a day at the track in a Murcielago Lambo. when I bought my jeep and could not get off work and gave the Golden Ticket to my Dad then he got sick and did not go :jawdrop::jawdrop:wish he would have called I would have just took a damn point at work lol that was a once in a life chance unless I hit the Power ball haha....

[jackpop]

Aren't BMW's maintenance free? I know all my friend's BMW's are...Anyhow this has nothing to do with title.

Yes they are.. There are built like a rock.. There have plenty issues with the electronics of the car, we have only ran into an electrical problem with the comfort access key.. Otherwise, No, Honda is not the new BMW.. Not even remotely close, they cant just add some nice luxurious features to there car and say that "oh hey were the new BMW" You can go 45mph over a pot hole in the road in the 335 but man oh man you better slow down in the accord..

[clewttu]

BMW:
We cover all factory-recommended maintenance at no charge for four years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first, as well as items that need replacement due to regular wear and tear.
Your maintenance costs:
Scheduled inspections: $0
Brake Pads: $0
Brake Rotors: $0
Engine Belts: $0
Oil Changes: $0
Wiper Blade Inserts: $0
Inspections: $0
Fluid Services: $0

[jackpop]

What a moron. He assumes that people who buy an accord can't afford a BMW. I LOVE my new my 6speed Coupe and for what I need it for, it does just fine. I could have easily bought a new M3 or S5 (I REALLY like that car), but the smarter side of me said the Accord does the job just fine. If people think a BMW really is the ultimate driving experience, they need to aim higher. Go drive a 911 GT3 or a Gallardo.....now those are real driving experiences.

The ultimate driving experience goes in a few different category's that a Porsche 911 does not offer at all, not just how fast the car is..

Example: BMW offers a fun to drive car, very luxurious, the name that most people buy the car for, and there pretty reliable and they are very up to date with technology.They really are the ultimate driving machine.. I don't think anything could measure up to one, not just saying this because I'm trying to defend my car, thats just my honest opinion.

[jackpop]

Before I purchased my Accord, I considered an A-4 and 3 series. The Accord was much better in the following areas:

price
ownership costs
fuel economy
reliability
value

No regrets since getting my coupe.:banana: I feel much more confident taking my coupe to 150k miles (and farther) than I would with either an A-4 or 3 series.

I agree with everything you said.. Except value..

[JamieJam1AIM]

Well If Imitation Is The Best Form Of Flattery I Dont Feel All Too Bad But These German Loving Goofs Need To Get Over Themselves!

[clewttu]

The ultimate driving experience goes in a few different category's that a Porsche 911 does not offer at all, not just how fast the car is..

Example: BMW offers a fun to drive car, very luxurious, the name that most people buy the car for, and there pretty reliable and they are very up to date with technology.They really are the ultimate driving machine.. I don't think anything could measure up to one, not just saying this because I'm trying to defend my car, thats just my honest opinion.

I agree they are nice, and a drivers car, but ive seen too many problems with them from people around me, regularly
im not a fan bimmers interior (dash especially) and the current set of exterior designs, i think only the 6 series looks good

but ultimately, 3 series vs Accord is not a apples to apples comparison one way or the other, nor is a 911 to a 3 series

[GigaS27]

Names are so over rated...

[stevencrosbie]

I think the new G37 gives the 3 series a good run for its money, but I do agree, you really can't get a better driving car than a BMW.

[Fireball]

...comparing a BMW to a Honda is stupid. ...driving a BMW is a special experience that no Accord is going to give you.

From Carreview.com (http://reviews.carreview.com/blog/2008-honda-accord-ex-l-coupe-review-bringing-style-and-performance-to-an-automotive-benchmark/): "With the new Accord Coupe, Honda has turned what was merely a slightly sporty, two-door version of its best-selling sedan into a true high-performance automobile that compares with the best Europe and Japan have to offer. ... To get the same performance in a Lexus or BMW you’d have to spend at least $5,000 more..."

http://reviews.carreview.com/files/2008/05/honda_accord_cpe_20.JPG

[sjlee]

From Carreview.com (http://reviews.carreview.com/blog/2008-honda-accord-ex-l-coupe-review-bringing-style-and-performance-to-an-automotive-benchmark/): "With the new Accord Coupe, Honda has turned what was merely a slightly sporty, two-door version of its best-selling sedan into a true high-performance automobile that compares with the best Europe and Japan have to offer. ... To get the same performance in a Lexus or BMW you’d have to spend at least $5,000 more..."

http://reviews.carreview.com/files/2008/05/honda_accord_cpe_20.JPG

CarReview isn't exactly a well-known source for car reviews. They've only been around for a couple years. Besides, has the reviewer even tested a current BMW 3-series?

Most car reviewers/magazines won't put it at the level of a BMW just from fact that it's FWD.

[krispykreme]

I don't think Honda are that reliable.

Owned many honda and several BMW thus far. I actually have worse experience with honda.

92 Honda accord LX- warped brakes, airbag did not deploy in an accident
94 Accord EX- burnt AC compressor (twice), ABS failed, rattles everywhere, sunroof was mis-aligned.
98 Accord LX V6- warped brake.
00 TL- tranny problem, navigation screen froze from time to time, rattle, warped brakes.
07 Oddity- no problem thus far other than getting less than 16 mpg.

BMW-
01 530i- failed final stage resistor for fan control, navigation would crash from time to time. Mechanically it was perfect (that thing was super charged).

03 M3- moonroof visor tab broke and hit me on the head. Rattle from pax seat. Navi crash from time to time.

03 M5- Inproper setting of O-ring caused an oil leak. Navi still crash from time to time

06 M5- failed steering angle sensor. Recent got warning on the SMG failure (which will be the 1st major issue with BMW).

I personally think Honda reliability is overrated. I have more true mechanical problem with honda, while I have none on the BMW (knock on wood).

BMW quality is not that bad as people made it out to be. Honda's quality isn't that good as people made them out to be.

Each board has shares of idiots. But i do think young honda owners and odyssey owners have too much ego tied to their car.

[clewttu]

you are one of the rare cases in my experience (here are 2 examples)

bosses 07 3 series has been in the shop three times in the past 4 months (~17K miles)
fuel pump/wiper motor
ac compressor
window motor/electrical issue with navi

my buddies 99 civic (~140K miles)
new alternator a couple years ago

[Tuolumne]

From Carreview.com (http://reviews.carreview.com/blog/2008-honda-accord-ex-l-coupe-review-bringing-style-and-performance-to-an-automotive-benchmark/): "With the new Accord Coupe, Honda has turned what was merely a slightly sporty, two-door version of its best-selling sedan into a true high-performance automobile that compares with the best Europe and Japan have to offer. ... To get the same performance in a Lexus or BMW you’d have to spend at least $5,000 more..."

http://reviews.carrview.com/files/2008/05/honda_accord_cpe_20.JPG

All I have to say is, dream on. Your Accord is a very nice car. It's not a 3-series.

As far as problems with my volkswagen, it's throwing CCM (comfort control module) faults at the VAG-COM.

[jackpop]

you are one of the rare cases in my experience (here are 2 examples)

bosses 07 3 series has been in the shop three times in the past 4 months (~17K miles)
fuel pump/wiper motor
ac compressor
window motor/electrical issue with navi

my buddies 99 civic (~140K miles)
new alternator a couple years ago

Your buddies 99 civic doesn't have even close to all the tech the 3 series does, not only that every tech feature in the car works in tandem.. ANY car that has as much tech loaded into it as a BMW or Mercedes is going to have problems.. You don't even realize everything thats in the car until you see the harness's hook up to every computer/electrical part in the car.. Its crazy..
We just hit the 9k mile mark the other day, and we haven't had any MAJOR issues...

The car hasn't started a few times "dead battery" BMW roadside assist was there in 20 min..
Comfort key not starting the car, but working for every other feature, that issue was dealt with too not sure why, but its a common problem with bimmers..
Otherwise, Its still running strong.. and fast, Its been my daily car for the past month and I love it..

But there is no car like a German car.. Who cares if you have issues, its under warranty.. You cant have everything.. :yes:

[jackpop]

CarReview isn't exactly a well-known source for car reviews. They've only been around for a couple years. Besides, has the reviewer even tested a current BMW 3-series?

Most car reviewers/magazines won't put it at the level of a BMW just from fact that it's FWD.

Agree.. Thats not even good comparison, there totally different cars, and they drive WAY different..
Its called spending 30k (Tip top of the line Accord Coupe) or spending a mere 60k (Tip top of the line 335ci coupe)
You get what you pay for. Thats just that..

[clewttu]

not saying that there is any comparison of that sort, so that rules out the navi, the rest of that stuff has nothing to do with the "tech" factor
and im by no means saying this is an across the board case either, just throwing out a couple experiences ive seen along the way, and ive got a couple more similar ones
im sure there are quite a good number of bimmers that skate through life without issues, but ive seen enough of them that have, that im a little wary of them
3 times in the shop in 4 months = my boss is waiting for the new TL to come out

[sjlee]

I don't think Honda are that reliable.

Owned many honda and several BMW thus far. I actually have worse experience with honda.

92 Honda accord LX- warped brakes, airbag did not deploy in an accident
94 Accord EX- burnt AC compressor (twice), ABS failed, rattles everywhere, sunroof was mis-aligned.
98 Accord LX V6- warped brake.
00 TL- tranny problem, navigation screen froze from time to time, rattle, warped brakes.
07 Oddity- no problem thus far other than getting less than 16 mpg.

BMW-
01 530i- failed final stage resistor for fan control, navigation would crash from time to time. Mechanically it was perfect (that thing was super charged).

03 M3- moonroof visor tab broke and hit me on the head. Rattle from pax seat. Navi crash from time to time.

03 M5- Inproper setting of O-ring caused an oil leak. Navi still crash from time to time

06 M5- failed steering angle sensor. Recent got warning on the SMG failure (which will be the 1st major issue with BMW).

I personally think Honda reliability is overrated. I have more true mechanical problem with honda, while I have none on the BMW (knock on wood).

BMW quality is not that bad as people made it out to be. Honda's quality isn't that good as people made them out to be.

Each board has shares of idiots. But i do think young honda owners and odyssey owners have too much ego tied to their car.

With just about any car, there'll be owner's who have different experiences. Every single Honda isn't going to be reliable, while every BMW isn't going to have problems. That being said, overall reliability of a Honda is better than that of BMW. In other words, you are more likely to have a reliable car if you get a Honda instead of a BMW.

This is based on a number of sources, including Consumer Reports and JD Power. In addition, other countries have shown similar ratings with car manufacturers. In the UK, Warranty Direct ranks reliability based on warranty claims.

[jackpop]

With just about any car, there'll be owner's who have different experiences. Every single Honda isn't going to be reliable, while every BMW isn't going to have problems. That being said, overall reliability of a Honda is better than that of BMW. In other words, you are more likely to have a reliable car if you get a Honda instead of a BMW.

This is based on a number of sources, including Consumer Reports and JD Power. In addition, other countries have shown similar ratings with car manufacturers. In the UK, Warranty Direct ranks reliability based on warranty claims.

Exactly..

You cant have it all.. Problems or no problems there are awesome cars.

[altima98]

Cars as status symbol=Bad
Car as A 2 B = good
Cars as toys = cool

Honda = Good
BMW = Good Toy
Snobby 582i driver = poop

Smart 2 = Death Trap.

[Tuolumne]

Your buddies 99 civic doesn't have even close to all the tech the 3 series does, not only that every tech feature in the car works in tandem.. ANY car that has as much tech loaded into it as a BMW or Mercedes is going to have problems.. You don't even realize everything thats in the car until you see the harness's hook up to every computer/electrical part in the car.. Its crazy..
We just hit the 9k mile mark the other day, and we haven't had any MAJOR issues...

The car hasn't started a few times "dead battery" BMW roadside assist was there in 20 min..
Comfort key not starting the car, but working for every other feature, that issue was dealt with too not sure why, but its a common problem with bimmers..
Otherwise, Its still running strong.. and fast, Its been my daily car for the past month and I love it..

But there is no car like a German car.. Who cares if you have issues, its under warranty.. You cant have everything.. :yes:

Very true. I just popped open the drivers side footwell on the Passat to get to the CCM and my god, wires everywhere, all attached to the wirring harness. I guess when you have everything from memory seats/power folding mirrors to automatic tilt down passenger mirror, there is just simply more to go wrong...And there must be a frayed wire or something somewhere, becuase the drivers side auto-up feature for the power window doesn't work, and the memory system periodically forgets the setting and puts the seat all the way forward. Comparing a Civic to a BMW luxury sedan is just asinine. The BMW has networks of wires for all of its convinence features; the Civic simply doesn't.

[jackpop]

Very true. I just popped open the drivers side footwell on the Passat to get to the CCM and my god, wires everywhere, all attached to the wirring harness. I guess when you have everything from memory seats/power folding mirrors to automatic tilt down passenger mirror, there is just simply more to go wrong...And there must be a frayed wire or something somewhere, becuase the drivers side auto-up feature for the power window doesn't work, and the memory system periodically forgets the setting and puts the seat all the way forward. Comparing a Civic to a BMW luxury sedan is just asinine. The BMW has networks of wires for all of its convinence features; the Civic simply doesn't.

Exactly..

Now if you had all those systems working together in a Civic or Accord, you might run into some problems too..

[SoK]

BMW:
We cover all factory-recommended maintenance at no charge for four years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first, as well as items that need replacement due to regular wear and tear.
Your maintenance costs:
Scheduled inspections: $0
Brake Pads: $0
Brake Rotors: $0
Engine Belts: $0
Oil Changes: $0
Wiper Blade Inserts: $0
Inspections: $0
Fluid Services: $0

they can call it free all they want but it's built into the price of the car

[lldsandsll]

Exactly..

Now if you had all those systems working together in a Civic or Accord, you might run into some problems too..

the accord has over 15000 electronic parts? i never knew that having lots of electrical parts made a car luxurious, but ill bet 15000 electronic parts means that theres a lot more workin in harmony there, and yet, no problems. i'll be damned.

[stevencrosbie]

Jack is right, but I want to clear something up a little.

I think MB is just horrible. They may have more gadgets, but their reliability is deplorable.

Now, BMW presses the envelope of automotive technology. They are sometimes the first to try things and add new technology to vehicles (as with VW) and there is something to be said about the reliability of emerging technology. You will run into more problems with emerging technology, but it is the price you pay to have the most advanced system around (believe me, I know all about this in the AF).

Honda rarely brings anything truly new to the marketplace. They play it safe with features, but that is what gives them their reliability. In saying that, Hondas are very reliable vehicles for the most part, but quality is a different measurement and they've slipped a lot in my book.

Who cares if the plastic is hard or soft if it rattles? It doesn't matter to me. I'd rather have hard plastics that are silent than soft plastics that sound like a tin can with pennies in it.

Now...would I buy a BMW....probably not. Mostly b/c it is a lot of money for a car. I'd consider the 330d, but 50k for a car is more than I want to spend.

I would buy a VW Jetta TDI if their engine didn't require a stupid amount of maint. 40k timing belt changes negates any fuel savings.

[Tuolumne]

Most people stick with a 60k interval on the engine. But you have a point, timing belt (and waterpump/tensioners/thermostat) changes is not cheap. It cost $1,000 on the vw, the Honda is about $700-$800 from what I've been quoted.

[Trip]

Exactly..

Now if you had all those systems working together in a Civic or Accord, you might run into some problems too..

Um, no . . .

I had a 01.5 Passat GLX with everything from mem seats, to reverse auto mirrors to lighted dash vents. In one year (on a brand new car) the electronic climate control failed twice, the dash lights burned out, the driver seat used to put itself all the way back while driving (comfort computer was replaced twice), mem sets would forget their settings, even the homelink stopped working, the car would forget the personal settings for the the master key fobs . . .

I've had an 03 Accord EX-L and and 06 EX-L NAVI with nearly as many features. How many gremlins did I have in 5 years . . . 0. And keep in mind Honda ties in the brake with the wipers, parking brake with DRL and brake set alert if moving, the auto-dim mirror "knows" when the car is in reverse, . . . but all of these features worked reliably.

Granted the Accords were newer designs than the 01.5 Passat, but you would think after 15 years of Hondas, an electrical gremlin would have popped up once or twice. Newer German cars may have improved but electrical gremlins seem to be one of their trade marks. Even on the current B6 boards (which I still read) these types of things still pop up regularly.

@ Tuolumne - Have you tried the mem seat reset procedure? That worked for me and the seat settings would retain their memory for a couple of months. When the mem settings would fail daily, doing this would help. It should also reset the master fob recognition program so yo can resync it.

Use the power seat controls to push the seat all the way forward and hold the button for 5 seconds. Raise the seat all the way and hold for 5. Fold the seat back all the way as far as it will go and hold for 5. This is suppsed to reset functions related to seating. Afterwards, program the mem seats first and then sync the key fob.

The auto window feature has a reset procedure, also. If that doesn't work, pinch protection is probably malfunctioning and the window needs an adjustment or hardware needs to be replaced. If you know someone with a VAG tool, there might be settings that they can reset.

[jackpop]

the accord has over 15000 electronic parts? i never knew that having lots of electrical parts made a car luxurious, but ill bet 15000 electronic parts means that theres a lot more workin in harmony there, and yet, no problems. i'll be damned.

Take the Accords 15,000 components and add 30,000 more to the BMW list.. Obviously I'm sure you know that MOST of the BMW sedans with problems are the ones listed with:

Intelligent Cruise, Nav, Comfort Key, Active steer, Night Vision, Logic 7, Adaptive front lighting, Memory seating, Auto day night/heated mirrors, BMW assist, Retractable headlight washers, Steptronic Transmission, HD radio, and the list just goes on..

Not counting all the computers that monitor the car systems, the transmission and the actual engine itself.. The Nav screen can tell you when your washer fluid is low, your tire pressure, your light delay, your engine oil, transmission fluid, everything.. Its a pretty smart car.

I would expect some problems, all that technology is put into a 3 series.. Alot of oomgh for that small car.

And I had my car for almost half a year, Only two minor issues have happened.. I'll be damned

[jackpop]

Jack is right, but I want to clear something up a little.

I think MB is just horrible. They may have more gadgets, but their reliability is deplorable.

Now, BMW presses the envelope of automotive technology. They are sometimes the first to try things and add new technology to vehicles (as with VW) and there is something to be said about the reliability of emerging technology. You will run into more problems with emerging technology, but it is the price you pay to have the most advanced system around (believe me, I know all about this in the AF).

Honda rarely brings anything truly new to the marketplace. They play it safe with features, but that is what gives them their reliability. In saying that, Hondas are very reliable vehicles for the most part, but quality is a different measurement and they've slipped a lot in my book.

Who cares if the plastic is hard or soft if it rattles? It doesn't matter to me. I'd rather have hard plastics that are silent than soft plastics that sound like a tin can with pennies in it.

Now...would I buy a BMW....probably not. Mostly b/c it is a lot of money for a car. I'd consider the 330d, but 50k for a car is more than I want to spend.

I would buy a VW Jetta TDI if their engine didn't require a stupid amount of maint. 40k timing belt changes negates any fuel savings.

Yea, MB is pretty bad nowadays, But man, Back in the 80's those cars WERE rocks, And they ran great, My great uncle has an OLD 300d with 500k miles (not exactly but around there 475-550k) and its still running, and he drives it like you wouldn't believe.. Good cars..

And they don't make a 300d in the U.S?

[arasheht]

Yea, MB is pretty bad nowadays, But man, Back in the 80's those cars WERE rocks, And they ran great, My great uncle has an OLD 300d with 500k miles (not exactly but around there 475-550k) and its still running, and he drives it like you wouldn't believe.. Good cars..


I know what your saying... I was actually considering a '08 C230 instead of my accord, and when I told the salesman to convince me NOT to buy the accord, he simply said:

"Why buy a Seiko watch with diamonds on it, when you can get the cheapest Rolex for a bit more."

That's when I thought 'See ya later!' (And thats in part because I'm an Omega person).

As for the reliability of the MBs, you know how in north america taxis are predominantly Corollas, Civics, and Fords? When you go to places like German and italy and France, all their taxis are E-Classes, especially in germany where less than 1% of the taxis are anything else but MB. You see some that have 500k on them and are STILL working flawlessly and are easy to fix (my uncle has a shop there and he LOVES working on those things).

[chanke4252]

MB and BMW used to be very reliable obviously, and slipped very quickly into their current unreliable status. If that's what you mean by Honda becoming the new BMW, then I might agree in a lot of respects (even though that's not at all what you mean from what I've read). If honda is anything, it is the new nissan (rapidly slipping quality = fun!). I'd buy a BMW at some point if they weren't such maintenance hogs. I love the new 335 coupes.

[stevencrosbie]

And they don't make a 300d in the U.S?

Yet :)

I realize the old MB Diesels were reliable, but a lot has changed. As well, it had a diesel similar to Cummins, CAT, and Detroit. Lots of steel, plenty of factor of saftey, and few stress limits pushed. Good reliable diesels (just way slow unless turboed).

[trainchaser]

I know what your saying... I was actually considering a '08 C230 instead of my accord, and when I told the salesman to convince me NOT to buy the accord, he simply said:

"Why buy a Seiko watch with diamonds on it, when you can get the cheapest Rolex for a bit more."

That's when I thought 'See ya later!' (And thats in part because I'm an Omega person).

As for the reliability of the MBs, you know how in north america taxis are predominantly Corollas, Civics, and Fords? When you go to places like German and italy and France, all their taxis are E-Classes, especially in germany where less than 1% of the taxis are anything else but MB. You see some that have 500k on them and are STILL working flawlessly and are easy to fix (my uncle has a shop there and he LOVES working on those things).

...just returned from a month in Italy, many of the MB taxi drivers aren't that happy with their cars - too many problems they say, several of our rides were in MB sedans and they rattled and squeaked like crazy and on one the front passenger seat kept slipping in its track, the driver said he couldn't turn the motor off as he was having problems getting it started.
...while touring through Tuscany our driver said he'd just replaced his MB van with a new VW, he said he liked the feature set on the MB better, but he couldn't live with all the problems and unreliability, he's hoping his new VW van will work out as he said they can be problematic as times, he said he's looking around for other alternatives as he has to have a reliable vehicle to make his living. I asked him what they consider the most reliable car is, he said it was probably a Peugeot, I asked him what he thought about BMW and he just shook his head...Obviously some things have changed for MB and the other German makes in terms of their bulletproof reputations...
...just an idea of how they think on the other side of the pond...

cheers,

Lorne Miller
05 EX-L deep green pearl with ivory
96 Odyssey taffeta white with sage

[crm114]

This afternoon, I traded my 2006 BMW 3.01si Z4 roadster for a EX-L Accord coupe. My trade paid for the accord and I got a check from the dealer for the remainder of the amount agreed upon. I really loved my BMW, it was very fast, very beautiful and very reliable and I am going to miss it very much.
However, I know I will grow a very fond attachment to my new Honda as I believe as millions of others that this is a fine, fine machine. In some ways the Accord handles similiar to the Z4 in its' crispness on twisty rural roads. I have the 4cyl coupe as I believe this is sufficient power for the car. The extra horses in the 6cyl just aren't necessary for a good ride. (IMO) I have had enough of life in the "fast lane" and I got that great experience from the Z4. I want to be pampered by the smooth ride and creature comforts that the Z4 did not have as it was truly an "ultimate driving machine". I sold my bimmer for a number of reasons. I was able to afford it but in time I would either kill myself or lose my license on account of my love to push the envelope. Now, I can take it easy and enjoy my new great car without the worry of physical harm to me or someone else or putting a scratch in it.

[blyong]

New to the forum. I've got to say, I've had my 08 accord sedan I4 EX-L for just over 1 week now, and I know I made a wise choice trading my 99 E46 BMW 323i (only got $7500 trade for it) for the accord and I love it:thumbsup:. I've had nothing but problems with my 323, and when I traded it, it only had 98k KMs (about 61500 miles) on it. I've also had a 97 E36 M3 and though it was, believe it or not less of a problem, it just wasn't a practical car for a young family, and was still prone to breakdowns. All in all, it seems to me that the trend so far for the BMWs is that with every new generation, the overall reliability seems to get worse with each new generation. My wife's family has a 98 civic and they've never had any problems in the last 10 years. My old 323, and my dad's '00 328i on the other hand, have at least $2000-$3000CAD+ :eek: each in repairs per year in the last few years, and my friend's 2007 3 series have been back for repairs under warranty a good few times this year already. Maybe she got a lemon, but having that happen will kill your "Ultimate Driving Machine" experience in a hurry! No regrets buying an Accord, not that I can't afford a new BMW, but just don't want the trouble of wasting my time going in and out for unexpected servicing, andthe Accord is . Just a matter of priority & practicality for me... My 2 cents.

[James.uk]

This is a strange thread? No one with any sense buys a petrol engined BMW? Why would they? :dunno:

The reality is its the V6 diesel engine that sets BMW as the car to beat! .. :yes:

The 323 series are awfull, no legroom in the back, a tiny boot, and boy racer side skirts that hit the ground on entering or leaving multi story car parks.. Going down streets with "sleeping policemen" speed bumps would smash the skirts to bits.. :paranoid:

Probably the best buy would be a s/h 525TDI ES top of the range, either manual or auto..

Just been on holiday in my Accord.. It is a lovely easy to drive car, no issues with it for comfort, roadholding, noise, comfort, or anything else but -- The mpg was pretty awfull, only averaging 30 mpg... :(

Fuel is now costing £1.27p a litre here!!! one £1 = 2 $..... :(
.

[justeddie]

I had a 2006 BMW 330i and loved it from day one until the day I sold it. Great machine that was VERY reliable for me.

But the 2008 Accord Coupe I have now is, dare I say, even better. Greater packaging for the dollar and stylish in it's own way (nowhere near a copy of any car including the BMWs). You also gotta love the fact you can put regular gas into a 268hp machine. I won't be able to handle turns the way I used to but I won't have to deal with cringing everytime I hit a pothole (which is every two minutes). I also noticed, for now, I turn more heads riding in the Accord than I did riding my 330i (but that will change once everyone gets the Accord. Everyone already had the 330i when I had it.).

[hardboiledhk]

But there is no car like a German car.. Who cares if you have issues, its under warranty.. You cant have everything.. :yes:

Yeah, who cares if you have to stop by the shop once a week, or leave your car there for 3 days, or you have to change out the engine every six months. It's under warranty. The whole car can blow up but it's all good, the warranty will cover it. The car may fail to start every two days, but BMW roadside assistance will help you. No problem.

Another example: You just purchased the best health insurance in the world. You developed brain cancer this week, lung cancer next week, have a heart attack every 4 days, and even in need of glaucoma surgery next month. Who cares? It's covered. The insurance even provide you with a team of doctors. You'll be alright.

Oh, another one. You just purchased a mansion with the BEST insurance ever known to man. You'll need a new roof by tomorrow, new wall structure by next week, all windows start to crack for no apparent reason every month or so. It's alright, who cares. It's covered.