Hi All,

I picked up my Accord Saturday and had an extended conversation with the service people about break-in, oil changes, etc.

Okay let's muddy even further the murky waters of car maintenance...(at least for us anal types)...

The Honda manual and website state that you only need to change the oil every 5,000 miles or 6 months, whichever comes first (severe conditions). And to keep the break-in oil for 5,000/6months.

The service gentleman I spoke with said that more and more manufacturers are extending maintenance to lower the true cost to own of their vehicle and try to gain some competitive advantage.

He recently bought a Pilot and said he changed the oil at 1,000 and will change it again at 4,000. He also mentioned an article written in our local paper (Boston Globe) where the writer analyzed the oil of a new Honda after 5,000 miles and found it to be quite sludgy and had quite a few "machine part shavings" in it. While the oil reservoir registered full a lab tested it and found it depleted by 70%. He said the two oil changes within 5,000 miles will pretty much clean the engine of shavings.

He also said that he has used synthetic oil (Mobil One) and hadn't found much of a difference. He said he uses the 5w-20 in his two Honda's and uses regular oil in his racing car. He said if you change the oil regularly there is no need to spend the extra money.

He also said that going with what the manufacturer recommends is okay too. "It's a matter of personal choice." I asked him if it was a way for service departments to increase revenue. He said that was a good point, but will stick with the 3,000.

So...what do you veteran Honda owners currently do? Have those of you that have done the 5,000/6 had any problems? Any of you do it at 3,000? What about break-in?

Thank you for your time, and I apologize if I have caused any of you angst over this seemingly unanswerable question.

Peace --Accordian

2005 EX-L Accord MT Graphite

This seems to be a question that getting a straight answer on is hard to do.

I've decided to follow the sever maintenance schedule with oil changes every 3,000 miles. I've chosen this due to the short in-town driving I do and the extreme weather differences we have in Nebraska (one day it is sunny and in the 60s, next in the teens and snow).

So far, no problems -- just pushed over 31,000 and had my 30,000 service done (to the tune of $350).

All good points Accordian..

The key is change oil when it gets dirty.. If you check every time you fill up you will get a feel of what clean and dirty are.
The break in oil probably has some binding components to capture metal from the manufacturing process..
I am a 3000 changer on my van but that takes 6 months to get to.
My Accord is a different story.... 7500 miles on it and my 5th gen was 7500-10k and with 180k on the odometer it never had any engine or oil related problems..
If I changed at 3000 I would be changing every 3-5 weeks.
I am also a non synth type person.. I could never justify the cost for the potential returns. 5w20 all the way. 10w30 in the 5th gen.
The statement that it's a matter of personal preference holds true.

My 2 cents
I1:)

Personally I do 3000 miles, but I don't count the time so much. My first oil change was after 8 months/4500 miles. My last oil change was 3200 miles/2 months. Just how it worked out. My oil came out nice and you could see a reddish/brown tinge to it still when it was coming out of the drain plug - even my peers in auto class noticed it. I use either genuine Honda filters most of the time but I don't mind other good brands - Bosch or Mobil 1, for example.

I use regular oil, 5W-30 as specified on my car. That's about as low as I'm willing to go - the new Odyssey's use 0W-20 and there's no way in hell you could get me to go that low. I considered doing a change up to 10W-40 but I do a lot of city driving, short distances, cold weather, etc, so decided 5W-30 would probably flow better. As for the metal shavings in the new engine, well yes that's part of break in. I'd probably do the first change at 2000 or 3000.

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I will be making short trips--with long ones now and then. The weather around here is also a consideration (I played golf yesterday and it is snowing as I type this).

The car has to last me a good long while so I want to do the right thing by it.

Thank you again!

Accordian

I had a lot of the same ?'s on what to do myself. When to change the oil, what oil to use, etc....

I found a web site that talks about nothing but oil and read a lot of posts, and people can post UOA's (user oil analysis) to help judge the effectiveness of oils in different engines. The forum is at bob the oil guy: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

After lot's of reading, searching and mulling over what I had read, I came up with this:

I will leave the oil in for the Honda recommended 5,000 miles before changing the oil for the first time. I ended up doing the oil at 4,800 miles. The oil that I used on the first change was bottled Honda 5W-20. This oil is very similar if not the same as the factory fill. Honda is known to put a lot of Moly in thier oils, which Honda engines like. I ran the first change to 7,600 miles, I then changed the oil to Mobile 1 Super-Syn 0W-20. I plan on changing this oil at 10,000 miles, at which time I will change the oil at 5,000 intervals afterwords. I will continue using the mobile 1. I will also use Honda oil filters as well.

The mobile 1 0W-20 has some really good UOA's that helped me decide that is the oil I want to use. If you read enough it seems like it's the only true full synthetic oil (at least the die hards on the oil guy forums seem to think that). I wanted to use a full synthetic cause I just can't see going 5,000 miles on dino oil, even though there are pleny of UOA's out there showing dino can hold up to longer change intervals these days. I guess this is just a hang up of mine on the old change the oil at 3,000 mind set.

As for using 0W-20 I don't see any problem, the UOA's show good results and it's formulated to meet or exceed the Honda and Ford specifications for 5W-20 oil. the added bonus of the 0W part of the oil is it's slightly thinner at colder temperatures so start up should be easier on the engine, yet it has about the same operating temperature viscocity as 5W-20 oil's. I plan on using the oil year round.

Just my .02 worth..... :) :)

Scott

I will second the www.Bobistheoilguy.com suggestion. There is A LOT of information on there.

If there are actually metal shavings that you can see in the oil from the factory fill, you have serious problems. I doubt this is what you are talking about. The engines are cleaned but there will be residual metals (copper is big on Honda) & leaching from the gaskets in the form of silicon on the Used Oil Analysis.

I would recommend using a "synthetic" 5W20 for the 1st two shorter intervals of around 5k miles since you do quite a bit of short trip driving. It's not the pricey full synthetic, but the cheaper labeled synthetic. AMSOIL & Motorcraft are two good examples. If after the two shorter intervals you want one of the best 5W20 oils, then try Redline. It's also one of the most expensive. It should be good for the 10k mile intervals that you desire.

Honda oil filters huh? Yeah, I bought a couple of those as well. Dang they sure are small. I dunno maybe they do a decent job. Motorcraft, Purolate Pure One, and Wix (Napa Gold) oil filters should do very well. The Wal-Mart ST filters are also reported to be good, but I just don't like Wal-Mart.

I'll 3rd BITOG.
________
starcraft 2 replay (http://screplays.com/)

Thanks! Sound advice all the way around. I like the idea of using the Mobile One 0-20 every 5,000. I emailed my brother-in-law (he used to own a few car dealerships) and this is what he told me:

>The manufacturer's recommendations are fine. The days of metal chips and contamination in the oil have been gone for years. My BMW did not get it's first oil change until 15,000 miles<

Thanks again!

Accordian

And here's what a BMW engine can look like with 15K intervals.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008933

Accordian, congratulations on your new car!

There really isn't one answer as to WHEN oil should be changed, except when it's dirty. There's just too many variables! We change ours at 5K, there's a mix of city & freeway on them. We too, are anal about some things...our trannies also get changed more regularly than most. We've had Hondas for 25 years, we got nearly 400K on a couple. They were still going, we just moved on. We laughingly don't concider them broke in till 150K! Well, the older ones, anayway!

At the dealer there's not been any real differences when people use synth. oil. The only real difference is in frequency.

The "break in" oil that comes in them has properties that help the valves seat right. If removed too soon, you'd risk this not happening. We left the oringinal stuff in for 5K as recommended.

If, as I1 said, you see dirty oil when checking...like when you're washing your car. Then by all means change it more often. I'm sure you'll figure out what's right for your driving conditions. At 5K mine comes out with it's color in tact. The Pilot's is a bit darker.

Relax & enjoy it!:)

Originally posted by according2me
And here's what a BMW engine can look like with 15K intervals.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008933

In all fairness, we don't know the driving style of this car, if it was run low of oil, if it had a coolant leak, etc.

Here's a link to a UOA for a 1999 Porsche Boxster with a very extended OCI:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002129

Originally posted by princess
Accordian, congratulations on your new car!

At the dealer there's not been any real differences when people use synth. oil. The only real difference is in frequency.

If, as I1 said, you see dirty oil when checking...like when you're washing your car. Then by all means change it more often. I'm sure you'll figure out what's right for your driving conditions. At 5K mine comes out with it's color in tact. The Pilot's is a bit darker.

Relax & enjoy it!:)

The thing is though oil becomes dark for different reasons. Sometimes it's because it's dirty. Sometimes the dark color just tells you that the oil is working properly.

After reading all of your thoughtful posts I think I'll go with what Honda suggests...and check the oil for "color" in the interim.

Princess, you were very reasurring. If you have owned Honda's that long, and received that much service out of them...

I especially liked the "Relax and enjoy it!" So far I am...very much so.

Best regards,

Accordian

Originally posted by benjamming
The thing is though oil becomes dark for different reasons. Sometimes it's because it's dirty. Sometimes the dark color just tells you that the oil is working properly.

Hey Benjamming,

This one left me:scratch: :scratch:
? Isn't the purpose of oil to lubricate and act as a detergent and bonding agent to contain impurities(dirt?) So if it is working properly it is getting dirty??
Maybe you meant something else..:dunno: :cool:

I1:) ;)

Originally posted by Inspector1
Hey Benjamming,

This one left me:scratch: :scratch:
? Isn't the purpose of oil to lubricate and act as a detergent and bonding agent to contain impurities(dirt?) So if it is working properly it is getting dirty??
Maybe you meant something else..:dunno: :cool:

I1:) ;)

What I meant to say (thanks for letting me know that it wasn't clear I1:cool: ) was that oil can be dark but not be dirty.

Benjamming is correct. Even though it sounds goofy, color is not a great way to determine the condition of the oil. I have done UOA's of dark colored oil that were able to go another 3000 miles.

I'm not talking black gooey oil, just dark in color.

I'm one of the Bobistheoilguy members (#415) that uses synthetics in everything including the lawnmower, weedeater, tiller, pressure sprayer, etc.

Can I prove that it's better than Dino oil? No, but I think there are distinct advantages to the synthetics over regular oil. As mentioned previously, it's all a matter of choice.

" I have done UOA's of dark colored oil that were able to go another 3000 miles." ? was that synth or Dino??


I agree with both of you in some cases. A Diesel engine will turn oil black within 10 miles, and some oils are very dark to start with.
I have been using Castrol in my Cord for 50k now and believe that since I check several times a week and go 6k or more on changes(due to the amount of miles I drive on a hot engine that I can use color as a determining factor for ME.
I cannot recommend that everyone else use this practice or disagree with you on variables as stated.
I have never done a UOA on any of my personal vehicles but have had numerous ones on customers vehicles in the past.
I still do not understand why so many go to the expense on gasoline engines? Diesel's yes with the effects that dirt, coolant and miles that engines see in a fleet of more than 25 vehicles.
I have also seen false analysis due to improper sampling techniques.(Engine tear down that was un-needed)
I guess I will be one to Agree to Disagree on UOA's on Gas engines in everyday street vehicles.

BTW.. If you check on some of my early post on my 96 Accord you will find that I went. 8-12k on oil changes with no ill effects in over 180k miles??Maybe I was Lucky!! Would I recommend that others do that? NO
I have inspected vehicles with 50k+ that have never seen an oil change and could not believe they still ran with no bearing or valve train noise with semi-taffy oil in them???

To quote"it's all a matter of choice"

I1:)

Originally posted by Inspector1
[BI still do not understand why so many go to the expense on gasoline engines? Diesel's yes with the effects that dirt, coolant and miles that engines see in a fleet of more than 25 vehicles.

I1:) [/B]

Because it's fun! :D

Originally posted by benjamming
Because it's fun! :D

Good one:D :D

I1:)