JL Clean Sweep - Subwoofer controls

[dking99]

I am posting this in the Gen 08 forum only because I want advice from people with the same system set up as I have.

Should I run the "5th channel" or subwoofer channel through the clean sweep and lose sub control from head unit OR...should I run the sub channel through the clean sweep and have a custom sub control dial installed? How much quality would I lose by bypassing the clean sweep and going straight to amp while still maintianing head unit controls?

I really like the idea of keeping sub controls through head unit, but not sure if I want to sacrifice sound quality for convenience.

Head unit fader and balance controls are not needed since I can set that once, and leave it alone. I will run those channels through the clean sweep and then out to amp.

Amp: alpine v12 5 channel 4x50 1x200
Sub: Alpine Type R Sealed box
Fronts: Boston components...coming soon

[dking99]

And what Clean Sweep version do I need?

CL-SSI, CL441dsp, or CL-SES???????

[onewheelup]

I was wondering the same thing....

I did find that AudioControl offeres a 6 and 8 channel converter...

http://www.mobileaudiocontrol.com/product.asp?Product_Id=250786

I've been out of the car stereo game for so long I've forgotten just about everything....

[dking99]

Yeah, I am cluess at to car stereo in the past 4 years. I was into it, but became satisfied with what I had in my Civic until it was totaled. Now, I am tryint o re-learn as fast as I am rebuilding my 08 coupe system.

I want simplicity, but I am VERY particular about sound. Thinking about bridging the 4 channels into 2 channels to run my fronts for now. Then, once I get the Bostons, I will unbridge, and run a line to the tweeters and another seperate line to the driver. I have heard this setup is much better. More power - not splitting power between tweeter and drive if only running 1 channel...also, you can change gain/crossover on amp to suit your tastes in driver/tweeter balance.

make sense???

[culvercoupe]

onewheelup,

I noticed you ordered the maven mark 1 shift knob. Have you received it yet, if so how long did the shipping take? Just curious because I ordered one last Monday, March 31st and the tracking says it's still in Canada!!!

As for the clean sweep question, I too am looking to install one but keep my sub controls. I may just install front components so should I bypass the clean sweep/amp for the rear speakers? I don't really care about the sound coming from them as long as there is something there.

[RTexasF]

After I had the Clean Sweep installed I chose to add a Bazooka 200 watt self powered sub. The same shop installed both and commented that they had to run the cleansweep setup CD again after the Zooka was put in. That leads me to believe that it must pass through the CS but I'm not positive of that.

[dking99]

I think the question is about sound quality.

Because a sub is such a low frequency, will there be much, if any, sound quality difference between running it through clean sweep (lose head unit sub controls) and using high low adapters going straight to your amp (maintain head unit sub controls)?

Another question you bring up...how do things sound when leaving the rears hooked up to the head unit? My thinking is if you really dont care about them at all, you can deal with keeping them much lower than the fronts and you wont hear much difference. If you do need some power from the rear, I would run them through clean sweep. That is what I will be doing. I think having the rears at about 40% and the fronts at 60% give you a nice balance...although it may be different witht he coupe...that rear window is very close to the rear deck and may reflect a lot more sound than one thinks.

[culvercoupe]

I think I may do something of that sort. I can always go back later and pull the sub signal from the clean sweep if I'm not happy. I got the sub in now and it's not bad, doesn't vary linearly with volume control though. It's pretty weird to have it cranked up and when I lower the volume the bass booms even louder. Stupid OEM radios...

[dking99]

anyone else have thoughts on the sub being hooked up to clean sweep or not?

Clean sweep = lose sub controls - possibly better sound

High lows -> amp = maintain sub control - possibly variable sound levels and differnt volumes

[ZedsDead]

I have the LX-s so my system does not have the factory sub but....

Both systems use DSP (Digital Signal Processing) to make the cheap factory speakers sound better... and to protect them. The factory head unit automatically changes the EQ curve at each volume setting. For example, the louder you turn up the volume, the more it reduces the bass frequencies.

The purpose of the Cleansweep is to eliminate DSP so you can have a powerful and FLAT signal for your aftermarket amplifiers. The CleanSweep only has 4 channels out and that is all you should need (based on the feature set of the product). In my case, I run the 4 channels out to my 4 channel amp (Alpine MRP-F600) and use this amps PreOut to send the signal to my Eclipse Sub amp. Everything is run through the cleansweep.

If you want more channels, and control over staging and levels... you should look at the Alpine or Rockford 3Sixty. If you are looking for a simple Line Level Converter, you should look at Audio Control or PAC products.

I plan to put in a Trunk EQ and a seperate Sub level control (both are cheap).

[dking99]

I have a 5 channel Alpine MRV-450...4x50 and 1x200. Because Clean Sweep has only 4 outputs, will I not be able to use the 5th channel sub out from the head unit? If this is the case, I will be stuck running it straight to the amp.

About the DSPs, sounds like that is for protection of the speakers....I wonder how that 5th speaker (sub) is programmed to perform as the volume is turned up?

[ZedsDead]

I am not familiar with that model. Does it have a seperate input for the subwoofer? I would have expected it to simply use the Rear Channel inputs, crossed over.

Since the DSP effects the pre-amp signal, it should have the same effect on all channels. I (just) spoke with my brother (who has the 08 with sub) and he confirmed that at a volume of 15, he starts to hear the bass roll off.

He has decided to go with the Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.2 which will take care DSP, Imaging/Staging, EQ and 5 (or 6) channels. You might want to just go with something like that as opposed to the Cleansweep. I am kind of wishing I did.

[culvercoupe]

I'm pulling the signal straight from the oem sub wire with a LOC and sending it to my aftermarket sub. It's the same deal, bass levels off after a certain point when you're increasing the volume. I may just go through the clean sweep and use JL's auxilary volume control for the sub. Most def it'll be the best option for sound.

[dking99]

Wow...$$$$$ for the Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.2 - $599

I am definitely going to pass the sub signal through the Clean Sweep. If at volume 15 is starts to go down, I will be messing with sub controls more trying to compensate for that. Id rather just be stuck with something more consetant....although, I think you can get a remote gain control on that sub channel. For like $50, $25 instalation they will put one on your center console which allows you to adjust gain. I would rather it be through the head unit, but will sacrifice appearence for sound quality.

[ZedsDead]

You can find them for much less

Here is the volume control from JL

http://www.gamenetusa.com/stereo/st3.jpg

[RTexasF]

Mine is like that exept in front of and slightly to the left of the hand brake when it is off.

I got to thinking......my sub must be hooked up through the Clean Sweep because the CS volume control turns ALL sound up or down from high to low & in sync. I do have a seperate control for the Bazooka but don't use it, it stays maxxed 100% of the time.

[ZedsDead]

Yeah, I am getting the sub level control next week and that is probably where I will mount it.

Here is my cleansweep

http://www.gamenetusa.com/stereo/st2.jpg

and here are my amps and sub

http://www.gamenetusa.com/stereo/st5.jpg

[A&Fbro28]

Will Clean Sweep elliminate the active noise cancellation?

[ZedsDead]

Will Clean Sweep elliminate the active noise cancellation?


No and that is a problem I just solved yesterday with the help of a few people on this board.

To disable it, you simply need to disconnected the (2) microphones. 1 is located in the upper console (where the map lights are) and the other is in the rear dash. I unplugged both and the problems went away. Awesome!

[dking99]

If you do not disconnect the mics before hooking up the clean sweep, will it sound bad?

Reason I ask is because I want to make sure I mention it to the installer next week. at the same time, if it does not effect the sound, I dont want to annoy the shit out of him with all my requests.

[A&Fbro28]

If you do not disconnect the mics before hooking up the clean sweep, will it sound bad?

Reason I ask is because I want to make sure I mention it to the installer next week. at the same time, if it does not effect the sound, I dont want to annoy the shit out of him with all my requests.
Thats exactly my point. What if we'd like to keep that function (Active noise C)? Is that possible or should I just swap the speakers and leave the rest alone?

[ZedsDead]

In my system, ANC clipped my subwoofer. Without a subwoofer, I don't know if it would be a problem.... so if you aren't running a sub, you may want to leave it connected.

Personally, I don't think it does much of anything on my car. I think it was designed for the Cylinder Management enabled cars, and the hyrids.

Also, I don't think upgrading the speakers will make much of a difference in these cars.... without upgrading amps and signal. The factory speakers use neodymium drivers and are matched pretty well with the factory head unit. Along with the DSP, they sound good and you are in little danger of blowing them if you crank the volume.

Cheap speakers, like these, are efficient which means it takes very little power to make them loud. Nicer, more expensive speakers are less efficient are require more power.... but offer much better fidelity. If you get a nicer set of speakers, and dont power them adaquately, it might end up sounding worse.

[glott]

Hey Zeds, How did you access the back of the headunit for the wires to go into the cleansweep. Did you just use the speaker wires? Where can I find a wiring diagram so I can install the cleansweep myself?

[ZedsDead]

Gaining access is relatively easy. I could not find a wiring diagram for 2008 so I traced the speaker wires back and used those to connect the Cleansweep. I didn't think to make notes but maybe I will do that this weekend. I am installing an EQ so I'll be digging around.

[dking99]

I am putting an amp (alpine 50x4) to the stock speakers next week, then in about a month or two when I have more money, I will be buying an upgraded pair of speakers.

I did this with my 2002 civic a while back and I was very impressed with the sound quality. In my opinion, you are better off adding power to the stock speakers rather than just buying a $400 set of speakers with no added power.

I will update everyone on the sound quality once the amp is added.

[dking99]

also, I ordered my clean sweep last night at 9pm...they shipped it today via UPS and will arrive in 6 days....

http://www.millionbuy.com/jlacl441dsp.html

$169 + $15 shipping = $184

[ZedsDead]

WOw that is a great deal. I got mine from a local shop and paid $212 with my discount!

[vazquez1085]

zed please tell me you live in ny..I cant do wiring for sh*t and i dont trust ANYONE with my 08..but since you have experience..lol help!!!

[dking99]

I saw some place with it for $159 but my gut feeling about the site was not good. No phone number, etc... I decided to go with the extra $10 site and I should be good to go. Plus, for $169, it was confirmed that it was NEW and not refurbished or anything. We'll see once I get it.

[GigaS27]

Wow...$$$$$ for the Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.2 - $599

I am definitely going to pass the sub signal through the Clean Sweep. If at volume 15 is starts to go down, I will be messing with sub controls more trying to compensate for that. Id rather just be stuck with something more consetant....although, I think you can get a remote gain control on that sub channel. For like $50, $25 instalation they will put one on your center console which allows you to adjust gain. I would rather it be through the head unit, but will sacrifice appearence for sound quality.


I am using a remote to compensate like you stated but this will not help. Only thing i find usful in the remote is when i lower the radio the bass starts to pound, so i lower it from the remote rather than going thru the radio (easier). The signal gets so weak as the volume goes up there is nothing you can do to ge the amp to operate at full power as the volume goes up.

One question i have though was i left the mics alone, but i see no problem, am i missing something? What exactly does it do bad/wrong?

[dking99]

I am not sure what you are stating when you say that you are using the remote sub control but you are having problems with the bass being balanced with the other speakers...I thought that the clean sweep took all that out of the equation. I thought that it put all speakers on a level playing field and that the remote sub control dial was like a gain control in a sense. So if you kept it at 0 (zero), everything would be 100% balanced. If you turned the knob up a little, essentially the door speakers would be up to about 90% while the sub still cranked up to 100%.

[ZedsDead]

Vaz, I will document the wiring when Im in the dash this weekend and post it here. The hook up really is pretty simple... even though the directions aren't very good.

[A&Fbro28]

In my system, ANC clipped my subwoofer. Without a subwoofer, I don't know if it would be a problem.... so if you aren't running a sub, you may want to leave it connected.

Personally, I don't think it does much of anything on my car. I think it was designed for the Cylinder Management enabled cars, and the hyrids.

Also, I don't think upgrading the speakers will make much of a difference in these cars.... without upgrading amps and signal. The factory speakers use neodymium drivers and are matched pretty well with the factory head unit. Along with the DSP, they sound good and you are in little danger of blowing them if you crank the volume.

Cheap speakers, like these, are efficient which means it takes very little power to make them loud. Nicer, more expensive speakers are less efficient are require more power.... but offer much better fidelity. If you get a nicer set of speakers, and dont power them adaquately, it might end up sounding worse.
The only thing I feel is lacking in the system is mid range is kind of flat. Upgrading to a better speaker that doesnot need an external amp, im hoping will help. What do u think? I listen to alot of techno which is more treble/mid heavy than bass. So there is alot missing to me when i listen to this music.

[dking99]

Get an amp with a good crossover or built in eq and remove most of the deep bass...with the added power, you would not even believe you have stock speakers in your car. I promise. I have been through this SO MANY times. Just add more power. You will be happy.

Changing speakers is like buying the same shoes that Lebron James wears thinking it will up your game! Power is what makes a speaker perform, just as the individual is what makes the player perform.

[ZedsDead]

Here is some generic information (opinions) that might help a few of you choose the right components for your system:

There are generally 2 types of sound systems, SQ and SPL:

SQ = Sound Quality. The goal is to recreate the audio signal as accurately as possible. The result is similar to being in the studio with the band.

SPL = Sound Pressure Level. The goal is to create the highest amount of sound pressure inside the cabin (volume). The result is similar to going to a concert.

Most people strive for a balance between the 2, leaning one way or the other.

A system consists of a signal source (Head unit), amplification, and speakers. Other components might include equalization, sound processing, and specialty installation items.

Head Unit: You basically have 2 choices... keep the factory unit or install an aftermarket unit. Both have advantages. With a factory head unit, you keep the factory look-and-feel, the factory controls, and any related security features. With an aftermarket unit, you can gain features like Bluetooth, GPS, and more control over the sound by way of seperate channel volumes and equalization.

Amplifiers: There are several "Classes" of amps including; A, A/B, and D. Class A/B is the most common in car audio and the best option for powering full range speakers sets. Class D amps are much more efficient but typically produce distortion in upper-mid and high end frequencies. They are typically used to power subwoofers. Always use the RMS rating of an amplifier and if available, use the CEA rating for the most accurate reference to power output. CEA is an independant verification. Another way to determine the RMS output is to take the Fuse rating and multiply it by 6. If an amp has a 25 amp fuse, it will typically put out 150 watts RMS total. If it has 3 x 25 amp fuses, it will put out 450 watts RMS total.

All amps are not created equal. The internal components and design dictate how well an amp will perform and sound. Generally, $1.50 per watt is a good value to use. A 100 watt amp that retails $150.00 - $200.00 will sound much better then a 100 watt amp that retails for $50.00 - $100.00.

Speakers: It only takes about 5 watts of power to achieve 80db of volume. Doubling the power to a speaker does not double the volume, a speaker rated at 50 watts RMS is not twice as loud as a speaker rated at 25 watts RMS. As a matter of fact, doubling the power typically results in only a 3-5db gain in volume. The rest of the power is used for Fidelity. Deeper and more powerful low end, tighter and more accurate mids, cleaner high end. A better overall sound.

Cheap speakers are efficient. They require less power to achieve their maximum fidelity because their fidelity is very narrow. Better speakers have a wider fidelity and require more power. The goal is to feed the speaker the maximum RMS power it was designed for... to achieve the maximum fidelity.

When you get in to high-end speakers, it really does become a matter of taste. I chose Boston Acoustic because (IMHO) they excel at live music, country, jazz and anything that uses acoustic instruments... especially vocals.

Other speakers, like MB Quart, excel at music that requires powerful midrange and sound pressure... like Heavy Rock, Metal, Techno, etc. Boston Acoustic, MB Quart, Focal, Diamond Audio, etc... are all about the same price but all sound completely different. Listen to as many as you can and choose the set that sounds best to you.

Installation: As Devin pointed out in his thread, installation is just as important (if not more) then the actual components. Cars cabins SUCK for quality sound reproduction so speaker placement, acoustic materials, and equalization can make a cheap speaker sound great and a great speaker sound cheap.

Likewise, we have a limited energy source in our cars. Power requires energy so when your energy runs low, you lose power. When your lights dim, each time the bass hits, you are running low on energy and loosing power (and fidelity). Using a high output alternator, additional battery, capacitors, etc... will help achieve and maintain maximum fidelity from your system.


So for those of you who are considering only adding an Amp to power the factory speakers, be careful not to overpower them. Doing so will overheat the speakers and lead to premature (if not instant) breakdown.

For those of you who are considering only adding speakers, be careful not to choose a high fidelity speaker that requires more power then you can give them. Doing so may end us sounding much worse.

[ZedsDead]

Specifically about the CleanSweep and Sub Volume...

You are correct... you set your headunit at a specific volume (I set mine to 20), calibrate the system and use the JL provided volume knob. This controls the output volume of the full range signal.

I use the Preamp outputs on my 4 channel amp to feed the signal to the subwoofer amp. This means the subwoofer amp gets the same volume as the drivers.

In my case, the subwoofer is far too loud for some music.

Even though I am feeding my amps a flat signal, I am putting 600 watts to my sub and 100 watts to each of my speakers. If I listen to Any Given Tuesday, it sound perfect. If I toss in some Kottonmouth Kings, the bass is overwhelming.

Since the cleansweep puts out 8 volts, your amplifier gain levels should be set to minimum (you should match your gain setting to the line voltage, not use the gain as a volume control).


So I will be adding a seperate Sub Volume control so that I can control the level on the fly. This will be connected between the 2 amps.

[GigaS27]

I am not sure what you are stating when you say that you are using the remote sub control but you are having problems with the bass being balanced with the other speakers...I thought that the clean sweep took all that out of the equation. I thought that it put all speakers on a level playing field and that the remote sub control dial was like a gain control in a sense. So if you kept it at 0 (zero), everything would be 100% balanced. If you turned the knob up a little, essentially the door speakers would be up to about 90% while the sub still cranked up to 100%.


IDK if i confused you but i do not have the clean sweep, its tock system, with a amp+sub added to the rear speakers. What i tried to explain is even with the gain nob(remote), it will not make the bass louder when you crank up the volume, as the system somehow is limiting the signal to the amp. So pretty much the bss sounds the sae weather you have the gain at normal setting(50%), or at 100%

[GigaS27]

Zed, just went thru your 2 post, great info man, i really appreciate you taking the time to explain this to us.

[dking99]

Very well put.

I am putting my 5 channel Alpine V12 (4x50, 200x1) to each of the 4 door speakers (stock) and a 12 inch Alpine sub. I will only be pushing the stock speakers at 50 watts for a few weeks until I can get my own set of Boston Acoustics. I will be sure not to push the stocks too hard.

Thanks for all the advice, ZedsDead

[dking99]

IDK if i confused you but i do not have the clean sweep, its tock system, with a amp+sub added to the rear speakers. What i tried to explain is even with the gain nob(remote), it will not make the bass louder when you crank up the volume, as the system somehow is limiting the signal to the amp. So pretty much the bss sounds the sae weather you have the gain at normal setting(50%), or at 100%

I got you now...and I understand. I think this is why the Clean sweep is so important.

[DevinKato]

Get an amp with a good crossover or built in eq and remove most of the deep bass...with the added power, you would not even believe you have stock speakers in your car. I promise. I have been through this SO MANY times. Just add more power. You will be happy.

Changing speakers is like buying the same shoes that Lebron James wears thinking it will up your game! Power is what makes a speaker perform, just as the individual is what makes the player perform.

I hate to disagree with you, but I really disagree with you. Adding power to the stock speakers will make them sound better, but to say that all speakers perform the same is absolutely ridiculous.

[DevinKato]

The only thing I feel is lacking in the system is mid range is kind of flat. Upgrading to a better speaker that doesnot need an external amp, im hoping will help. What do u think? I listen to alot of techno which is more treble/mid heavy than bass. So there is alot missing to me when i listen to this music.

A&Fbro28, there are not many aftermarket speakers that will be more efficient than your stock ones. In other words, there are not many aftermarket speakers that will play any louder than your stock ones at the same wattage.

Stock speakers are designed to play as loud as possible with as little given wattage. All other characteristics are secondary to that design. Quality speakers are much less concerned with being efficient, and much more concerned with quality reproduction of sound.

That said, there does exist some efficient aftermarket speakers. Focal's Access series comes to mind, and I believe some Polk's do as well. A good starting point is to look at speakers "sensitivity" ratings. The higher the better if you are trying to make the most out of the power you have. It isn't the exact same thing as an efficiency rating, but is more readily provided by speaker manufacturers.

Let me know if you have any more ??s

[shocksyde]

A&Fbro28, there are not many aftermarket speakers that will be more efficient than your stock ones. In other words, there are not many aftermarket speakers that will play any louder than your stock ones at the same wattage.

Stock speakers are designed to play as loud as possible with as little given wattage. All other characteristics are secondary to that design. Quality speakers are much less concerned with being efficient, and much more concerned with quality reproduction of sound.

That said, there does exist some efficient aftermarket speakers. Focal's Access series comes to mind, and I believe some Polk's do as well. A good starting point is to look at speakers "sensitivity" ratings. The higher the better if you are trying to make the most out of the power you have. It isn't the exact same thing as an efficiency rating, but is more readily provided by speaker manufacturers.

Let me know if you have any more ??s

Man, you're just going to confuse people with all that garbage.

Bottom Line: There are many, many aftermarket speakers that are better than the stock ones. People shouldn't be worried about effeciency. They should be worried about sound quality.

[ZedsDead]

Man, you're just going to confuse people with all that garbage.

Bottom Line: There are many, many aftermarket speakers that are better than the stock ones. People shouldn't be worried about effeciency. They should be worried about sound quality.

True and False hehehe

Using Boston Acoustic as a point of reference....

If you replace the factory speakers (only) with the S series, it will sound better. You will most likely have better low frequency reproduction, crisper high end and a better balanced mid range.

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/car/car_product.aspx?category_id=14&family_id=23


If you replace the factory speakers (only) with the SPZ series, it will sound worse. You will most likely have less low frequency reproduction and a muddy mid range with some noticable distortion in the high end.

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/car/car_product.aspx?category_id=14&family_id=136

The simply explaination is that the SPZ speakers are less efficient and expect (demand) more power to move the voice coils to reproduce low and mid frequency ranges. If you do not provide them with enough power, the voice coils will not move enough to reproduce the frequencies.

So, yes... there are plenty of speakers out there that will probably sound better then the factory speakers but IMHO, the gain is marginal.

And, no... there are plenty of speakers out there that will sound much worse then the factory speakers if powered by the factory amp.

At the end of the day, it is about what sounds best to you. That is why it is important to demo stuff before you buy.

I guess I should preface all of this with "In my humble opinion". While I have done a lot of research on these topics... I am not a professional. I am a microscopist and amature jazz/fusion musician :)

The best source of information is a local car audio vendor (not best buy or circuit city). While they are still bias about the products they sell, they will give you the most accurate information. If you are in the Washington DC Metro area, I highly recommend Myer Emco. Sean, the manager in NoVa, is amazingly knowledgable. The Frederick location is also very good.

[shocksyde]

The best source of information is a local car audio vendor (not best buy or circuit city). While they are still bias about the products they sell, they will give you the most accurate information. If you are in the Washington DC Metro area, I highly recommend Myer Emco. Sean, the manager in NoVa, is amazingly knowledgable. The Frederick location is also very good.

Have you ever had anything installed at Myer Emco? I'm in Bethesda, and so far it looks like Tweeter is gonna cost >$800 for (2) 2-channel amps, an amp rack, a sub, and front components. You think Myer Emco is a good place to get an install done?

You're right, there are definately speakers that will be worse, as well.

[DevinKato]

Man, you're just going to confuse people with all that garbage.

Bottom Line: There are many, many aftermarket speakers that are better than the stock ones. People shouldn't be worried about effeciency. They should be worried about sound quality.

Garbage? haha. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the entire point of forums is to share information, not dummy it down to avoid confusing people. If anyone is confused, I am more than happy to try and explain it in a clearer manner.

Anyways, to get to your bottom line, yes many aftermarket speakers will sound better. However, if you get an aftermarket speaker that is of low efficiency, and you try and blast it as loud as you are used to with your stock speakers. It can sound much worse since your stock "amp" is going to start distorting much before the speaker reaches even close to its headroom.

[shocksyde]

Garbage? haha. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the entire point of forums is to share information, not dummy it down to avoid confusing people. If anyone is confused, I am more than happy to try and explain it in a clearer manner.

Calling it garbage was perhaps harsh on my part. What I meant is that I'd imagine the majority of people aren't entering dB Drags. Almost any good SQ speaker will get plently loud, so talking about effeciency ratings seems overboard to me.

All of this is purely my opinion though, nobody needs to agree with it.

[ZedsDead]

Absolutely. I have been dealing with Myer Emco since they were the Electronics Shop. They did the installs on 2 of my vehicles.

Stay away from the Gaithersburg location, they do not have a qualified installer. The guy working there now just came from circuit city (or something) and hasn't got a clue.

I bought all of my equipment from them (Boston spkrs, Cleansweep, amps, cabling). They quoted me about $425 for the install, which in retrospect is probably a good deal, but I decided to do it myself.

If you call the NoVa location, ask for Sean. He is the car audio manager. If you don't mind driving to Frederick, Todd is the installer and he has been doing it for 18 years. The guy is a master of install.

Another nice feature if you have them do the install... you get a lifetime warranty on it as well as the option to purchase a 2-5 year contract on the equipment (for like $30.00). The contract extends the factory warranty, covering parts and labor, and includes replacement. It isn't just manufacturing defects, if you blow the speaker... they will replace it for free. If you fry and amp, they replace it for free. I think the only thing they don't cover is damage due to a car accident or water. This warranty can be transferred to other people and automatically covers the equipment no matter how many cars you put it in.

Normally, the only install equipment that you purchase from them but the Frederick location will install anything.

[dking99]

I hate to disagree with you, but I really disagree with you. Adding power to the stock speakers will make them sound better, but to say that all speakers perform the same is absolutely ridiculous.

I never said that...

I think most people who are looking to "upgrade" speakers are looking for more sound, not more quality per say.

What I mean is that if you have $400 to spend, and you want an upgrade, you are better off buying a decent 4 channel amp rather than a nice pair of Boston Acoustics speakers.

I never said all speakers perform the same, in fact, with what I did say, I am not sure how you came up with that???

[dking99]

Have you ever had anything installed at Myer Emco? I'm in Bethesda, and so far it looks like Tweeter is gonna cost >$800 for (2) 2-channel amps, an amp rack, a sub, and front components. You think Myer Emco is a good place to get an install done?

You're right, there are definately speakers that will be worse, as well.

Myer Emco has been the best Audio Video place around IMO for a while. Affordable, yet very high quality products and instalation. I am getting my system installed there late next week or early the following.

I am currently in Frederick, but lived in Gaithersburg for 2 decades. Maybe I'll see you around...

[dking99]

Didnt Sean used to work at Gaithersburg for years? I was there the other day and he is gone and the installed is a deusch bag...quoted me $150 more than the Myer Emco in Frederick did. I will get my instalation done in Frederick. The guy's name there is Donnie...any word on him?

[shocksyde]

Thanks for the heads-up on Myer Emco fellas, I'll give them a call.

[DevinKato]

I never said that...

I think most people who are looking to "upgrade" speakers are looking for more sound, not more quality per say.

What I mean is that if you have $400 to spend, and you want an upgrade, you are better off buying a decent 4 channel amp rather than a nice pair of Boston Acoustics speakers.

I never said all speakers perform the same, in fact, with what I did say, I am not sure how you came up with that???

Didn't mean to turn this into an e-pissing match, I was referring to your comment "Changing speakers is like buying the same shoes that Lebron James wears thinking it will up your game! Power is what makes a speaker perform, just as the individual is what makes the player perform."

I took it as you inferring that speaker A with the same power will perform the same as speaker B, and that the "shoes" do not make a difference. If I misunderstood your point, my apologies.

As for spending the cash on upgrading the amp instead of the speakers, I totally agree with you. Spending money on speakers, but still using the stock headunit to power them is retarded. I think we're perhaps saying the same points, just in different ways.

peace.

[ZedsDead]

Myer Emco has been the best Audio Video place around IMO for a while. Affordable, yet very high quality products and instalation. I am getting my system installed there late next week or early the following.

I am currently in Frederick, but lived in Gaithersburg for 2 decades. Maybe I'll see you around...


Awesome! I grew up in Montgomery County. I moved to Hagerstown recently but I still work in Bethesda.

The recently did the install on my Brother's car and it was Top Knotch... but it didn't look like the spent any time setting up the amps, crossovers, etc.

Make sure to tell them to set the front tweeter crossovers to -4db and to calibrate the Cleansweep at 20 (1/2 volume). They originally left the tweeters in his car at 0db, did the calibration at 32 and had the input gain on the amps set too high. It sounded awful.

I have a band in the area called The Junk Band, a Jazz/Funk/Rock group. We play a few venues in Frederick and will be doing the Alive @ 5 Happy Hour, on Carroll Creek, over the summer + In The Streets. If you catch us, say hi. I'm on Bass (and sometimes keys).

[ZedsDead]

Didnt Sean used to work at Gaithersburg for years? I was there the other day and he is gone and the installed is a deusch bag...quoted me $150 more than the Myer Emco in Frederick did. I will get my instalation done in Frederick. The guy's name there is Donnie...any word on him?

Im not sure but I think Sean did work in Gaithersburg. He is now one of the main guys.

The manager in Frederick is Brian and the installer is Todd. Todd is awesome.

I forget who the installer was in Gaithersburg but he was clueless about the cleansweep... that is fo'sure.

[dking99]

Didn't mean to turn this into an e-pissing match, I was referring to your comment "Changing speakers is like buying the same shoes that Lebron James wears thinking it will up your game! Power is what makes a speaker perform, just as the individual is what makes the player perform."

I took it as you inferring that speaker A with the same power will perform the same as speaker B, and that the "shoes" do not make a difference. If I misunderstood your point, my apologies.

As for spending the cash on upgrading the amp instead of the speakers, I totally agree with you. Spending money on speakers, but still using the stock headunit to power them is retarded. I think we're perhaps saying the same points, just in different ways.

peace.

Yeah, my analogies are not always easy to follow. I can see where you thought that now. May analogy was flipped around. I meant that you as a person only have a certain amount of skill (power)...if you bought an expensive pair of Nikes for $200 (speaker A - Boston Acoustics) they wouldnt change your game all that much compared to the $40 sneakers (stock speakers) you picked up at foot locker.


We are saying the same thing, just in different ways...so, just for the record:

DO NOT MAKE YOUR ONLY AUDIO UPGRADE A $400 PAIR OF SPEAKERS...If you want better sound, you need to add power first...if you still want better sound, then upgrade to a nice set or components.

...or just get a sub that adds so much bass that you cant even hear the distortion!:thmsup:

[dking99]

Awesome! I grew up in Montgomery County. I moved to Hagerstown recently but I still work in Bethesda.

The recently did the install on my Brother's car and it was Top Knotch... but it didn't look like the spent any time setting up the amps, crossovers, etc.

Make sure to tell them to set the front tweeter crossovers to -4db and to calibrate the Cleansweep at 20 (1/2 volume). They originally left the tweeters in his car at 0db, did the calibration at 32 and had the input gain on the amps set too high. It sounded awful.

I have a band in the area called The Junk Band, a Jazz/Funk/Rock group. We play a few venues in Frederick and will be doing the Alive @ 5 Happy Hour, on Carroll Creek, over the summer + In The Streets. If you catch us, say hi. I'm on Bass (and sometimes keys).

Sweet, man...as I said, I am in Frederick.

Look for me on 270 in the mornings headed to Germantown. I am getting on 15 South at about 7:35am...what about you?

I will write down those notes...thanks.

GF was telling me about Alive at 5...I will Definitely be there!

See you around...

[DevinKato]

haha, my thoughts exactly man. :salue:

[dking99]

Zedsdead...What are you driving?

[ZedsDead]

I drive a black 08 LX-S coupe to work but I usually don't head down the road until 9:00 or later. The rest of the time I drive my truck.

I'll be in Frederick all day Saturday if you want to check out the system.

[dking99]

cool...just sent you my info in a PM...

[shocksyde]

Called Myer Emco up in Frederick, I'm scheduled for Friday the 18th. As soon as I mentioned it was an 08 Accord Coupe he mentioned he had just done one, haha.

I'm done threadjacking now.

[ZedsDead]

Nice!

What are you having put in?

[shocksyde]

Cleansweep, Elemental Designs Nine.2 amp, Nine.2X amp, 13O.v2 sub, 6000.v2 component speakers, and eDead sound deadening in the trunk and both doors.

I'm going to have them disable all factory speakers as well. Fresh start, baby! I had a similar setup in my 99 Altima and it sounded purdy.

[ZedsDead]

Right on man. Here are a couple of suggestions...

If the 6000.v2 component speakers have bright tweeters, have them attenuate them to at least -4db. The positioning is such that they will overwhelm the other speakers. If they are warm tweeters, maybe -2db. They normally put the crossovers in the doors, so it is difficult to change the setting after the install.

Have them disconnect the microphones for ANC... one under the front map lights (upper console) and the other in the rear dash. Just unplug them and you should be good.

Have them calibrate the Cleansweep at 1/2 volume (20), not 3/4 volume. At least in my car, this sounds much better.

They normally don't do much in the way of setup and usually run everything flat. When we first got my brothers car back, there was a lot of distortion because the amplifier gain was set for like 1.5volts. Since the Cleansweep feeds 8volts, the amp gain should be set to minimum as it doesn't need to boost the input signal at all.

If at all possible, have them add the CL-RLC for subwoofer volume control. I have already ordered mine. It is expensive ($60.00) but it is powered (preamp) and super clean. They normally don't stock that piece but will order it if you ask.

With a sub in the trunk, the plastic rear deck lid rattles so you may want to have them dynamat it or something.

Next time there is a honda car show or something, we should all meet up and check out systems.

[shocksyde]

Right on man. Here are a couple of suggestions...

If the 6000.v2 component speakers have bright tweeters, have them attenuate them to at least -4db. The positioning is such that they will overwhelm the other speakers. If they are warm tweeters, maybe -2db. They normally put the crossovers in the doors, so it is difficult to change the setting after the install.

Have them disconnect the microphones for ANC... one under the front map lights (upper console) and the other in the rear dash. Just unplug them and you should be good.

Have them calibrate the Cleansweep at 1/2 volume (20), not 3/4 volume. At least in my car, this sounds much better.

They normally don't do much in the way of setup and usually run everything flat. When we first got my brothers car back, there was a lot of distortion because the amplifier gain was set for like 1.5volts. Since the Cleansweep feeds 8volts, the amp gain should be set to minimum as it doesn't need to boost the input signal at all.

If at all possible, have them add the CL-RLC for subwoofer volume control. I have already ordered mine. It is expensive ($60.00) but it is powered (preamp) and super clean. They normally don't stock that piece but will order it if you ask.

With a sub in the trunk, the plastic rear deck lid rattles so you may want to have them dynamat it or something.

Next time there is a honda car show or something, we should all meet up and check out systems.

Awesome info, thanks. I'm just going to print this out and give it to them, haha.

I'm down for a meet any day after the 18th.

I do believe it's banana time. :banana:.