5mt Shifting Techniques

Anyone out there who has a 5MT in the 06-07 Accord?

If so, what rev range do you typically shift when you want economy and what techniques do you use when you want max performance?

This is my first manual so I'm still trying everything out like trying to match revs when downshifting etc.

Thanks

I don't have a MT Accord, but I did have an Integra with a 5-spd MT. For fuel economy, I usually shifted at around 2500 rpms. If you want to really get the most power out of the engine, you should shift shortly before the fuel cutoff... probably around 6k RPM. That way, when you shift, you'll keep the engine near/at the max HP.

Car and Driver was able to get your car to go 0-60 mph in 7.5 seconds.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_quickest_cars_of_2007_less_than_20_000_feature/2007_honda_accord_feature

With the I-4, try to keep those shifts below 3k for fuel mileage. The K24 is a revy motor, so just take the shift to about redline if you want the fastest acceleration possible. It really is a great motor.

Thanks for the tips. I'm finding as long as I'm below 50, I can safely downshift into 2nd for harder acceleration up to around 65-70. At highway speeds, 3rd is my passing gear. This little engine really loves to rev. What about techniques to prolong the life of the engine and transmission/clutch? Do you put it in idle asap when you know you'll be stopping soon or do you engine brake? If cruising and you slow down to the point where the rpms drop below 1500 when giving it gas, would you downshift? I know I have a lot of questions here.. just trying to get some more insight.

I have a 06 with 5mt. It is rev happy.....I usually shift around 4k because there isn't much power down low. If you want to save fuel, shift around 3k....I sometimes skip 3rd and go from 2nd to 4th if it's flat and I don't need the torque.....that really keeps the revs low. For the best power bring it up high....6500 should be about right. For downshifts just do what feels right. I blip the accelerator between downshifts to bring the revs back up to where they need to be as I let the clutch out. Makes for a much faster/smoother downshift.

SB

Thanks for the tips. I'm finding as long as I'm below 50, I can safely downshift into 2nd for harder acceleration up to around 65-70. At highway speeds, 3rd is my passing gear. This little engine really loves to rev. What about techniques to prolong the life of the engine and transmission/clutch? Do you put it in idle asap when you know you'll be stopping soon or do you engine brake? If crusing and you slow down to the point where the rps drop below 1500 when giving it gas, would you downshift? I know I have a lot of questions here.. just trying to get some more insight.

I only engine brake if I think that I wont come to a complete stop. This way I am in the right gear to just give it gas and keep going. Otherwise, I just use the brakes and pop it into neutral when I am almost stopped.

As for downshifting if the RPM's drop below 1500, it really depends on the gear that you're in. In 2nd or 3rd gear you can let the RPM drop below 1500 and it still pulls fine. In 4th or 5th a downshift would be the thing to do. You don't want to lug the engine too much.

Thanks for the tips. I'm finding as long as I'm below 50, I can safely downshift into 2nd for harder acceleration up to around 65-70. At highway speeds, 3rd is my passing gear. This little engine really loves to rev. What about techniques to prolong the life of the engine and transmission/clutch? Do you put it in idle asap when you know you'll be stopping soon or do you engine brake? If cruising and you slow down to the point where the rpms drop below 1500 when giving it gas, would you downshift? I know I have a lot of questions here.. just trying to get some more insight.

The engine is pretty bullet-proof. If you allow it to sufficiently warm up before revving it high (engaging VTEC) and don't overrev (downshift when the RPMs are too high), you shouldn't have any problems.

As far as the transmission, when you notice the clutch starting to go, stop driving it. I know first-hand that even if you drive it a short while after the clutch starts to go, you can damage the transmission.

The clutch is one of those things that wears as you use it. Only disengage it (press the pedal) when shifting. Don't disengage it when stopped (even on a hill) or when coming to a stop. When you're stopped, put the transmission into neutral. When coming to a stop, downshift... brake... then shift into neutral. You shouldn't have to disengage the clutch while braking if you downshift. Obviously, in an emergency, don't bother with downshifting... just press the brake and clutch pedal to stop quickly.

When the RPMs do get low, I'd recommend downshifting as you don't want to cause the engine to lug.

I think i was definately guilty of lugging when i first started to drive it. I wasnt comfortable shifting a lot so i didnt downshift when going up a couple steep hills so id be in 2nd going 5mph uphill and flooring it yet the rpms were 600 or so.. I would also keep it in 5th when accellerating out of 40mph. Hope that didnt cause damage to the engine/tranny. Maybe the new drive by wire system prevented some overstress...
Also, at what rpm does vtec engage in this engine?

I think i was definately guilty of lugging when i first started to drive it. I wasnt comfortable shifting a lot so i didnt downshift when going up a couple steep hills so id be in 2nd going 5mph uphill and flooring it yet the rpms were 600 or so.. I would also keep it in 5th when accellerating out of 40mph. Hope that didnt cause damage to the engine/tranny. Maybe the new drive by wire system prevented some overstress...
Also, at what rpm does vtec engage in this engine?

If you only did it a short time, you will not likely have done any permanent damage.

As far as downshifting, if you want to have smoother downshifts, you could try rev-matching... which involve tapping the gas pedal to rev the engine slightly so that the engine speed will better match the transmission speed. It does involve using the clutch a little more, however.

i have a V6 6-Speed and this is my 4th car and ive never driven anything other than stick. I love man trans and HATE autos. Honestly i rarely ever look at my RPMs. I just kinda feel it unless im flooring it (for whatever reason) then ill redline it. Honestly I dont even know the redline in our cars cuz i just drive. Driving stick has become 2nd nature to me and driving autos now are just plain awkward for me i hate it

i have a V6 6-Speed and this is my 4th car and ive never driven anything other than stick. I love man trans and HATE autos. Honestly i rarely ever look at my RPMs. I just kinda feel it unless im flooring it (for whatever reason) then ill redline it. Honestly I dont even know the redline in our cars cuz i just drive. Driving stick has become 2nd nature to me and driving autos now are just plain awkward for me i hate it

Thanks for your input, but somehow I don't think it helps the OP. :dunno:

Thanks for your input, but somehow I don't think it helps the OP. :dunno:

heh.. well mayyybe he was tryin to show that in time, these questions will seem irrelevant? I'm tryin to give him some credit but yeah that didnt really help any beginner out. So far I think being very slow to let out the clutch has been pretty helpfull. Do you know why its harmfull to leave the clutch depressed? What is being worn when the clutch plate is apart from the rest of the transmission?

heh.. well mayyybe he was tryin to show that in time, these questions will seem irrelevant? I'm tryin to give him some credit but yeah that didnt really help any beginner out. So far I think being very slow to let out the clutch has been pretty helpfull. Do you know why its harmfull to leave the clutch depressed? What is being worn when the clutch plate is apart from the rest of the transmission?

Throw out bearing.

Just drive the darn thing. Keep the revs low for mpg. Keep them high for what fun it will give you.

Dropping down to 2nd for a pass from 50 mph is a bit abrupt. If I read that right. One of the great things about K24 is it makes useable power all thru the rpm range. Thats one of the things I like about our 7th gen. Its kind of unHonda like. 160hp with 160 torque. Its a very drivable engine. The same with the mill in my Mazda3.

Then Honda made the new Accord. What,,, 190hp in the I4 with 162 torque or something like that. A bigger car and they didn't increase the bottom end.

And I wouldn't worry so much about rev matching. Its way over rated in a daily driver. But its nice to have the skill if you wish to straighted out a twisty road. Just remember there are times one needs a good engine braking moment.

Enjoy your MT...

heh.. well mayyybe he was tryin to show that in time, these questions will seem irrelevant? I'm tryin to give him some credit but yeah that didnt really help any beginner out. So far I think being very slow to let out the clutch has been pretty helpfull. Do you know why its harmfull to leave the clutch depressed? What is being worn when the clutch plate is apart from the rest of the transmission?

Like I said before, the more you use the clutch, the faster it will wear out. The clutch is designed to disengage the transmission from the engine so that you can shift gears. It is not designed to be used continuously. Holding the clutch pedal in puts stress on the system and causes premature wear. Specifically, as psyshack stated, you'll wear out the throw-out bearing.

If you want to learn more about clutches, you should read this...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm

Cool I think I've got most of my shifts under control.

Now I need to work on shifting a little faster and learn how to heel-toe the braking turns. I read that most japanese sedan clutches last 100-150k miles. hopefully thats true. I have a feeling the benefit of a slight increase in mileage for manuals will be offset when its time to change out the clutch.. but a better driving experience is what i was after (with good mpg).

Since I bought my car used at a nissan dealership, I think I'm gonna take it to a honda service center to get everything looked at - especially the rattle in the driver door - while i still have a year and 17k mi left on the warrenty.

Thanks for all the help guys

Cool I think I've got most of my shifts under control.

Now I need to work on shifting a little faster and learn how to heel-toe the braking turns. I read that most japanese sedan clutches last 100-150k miles. hopefully thats true. I have a feeling the benefit of a slight increase in mileage for manuals will be offset when its time to change out the clutch.. but a better driving experience is what i was after (with good mpg).

Since I bought my car used at a nissan dealership, I think I'm gonna take it to a honda service center to get everything looked at - especially the rattle in the driver door - while i still have a year and 17k mi left on the warrenty.

Thanks for all the help guys

Heel-toe is unnecessary for street driving... leave it for the track.

Clutch life will vary depending on its use... for example, the clutch on my GS-R lasted about 98k miles.

Actually, in general the price for a new clutch will be offset by the maintenance that an AT requires (e.g. fluid changing). Overall, an MT will be more economical... if driven identically.

http://www.standardshift.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6

I figured since I had some questions about my manual, maybe some other people would in the future if this was their first MT as well. Apparently there is a place dedicated to this topic alone so I thought I'd share.

Thanks for the inputs on this board. It helped me the past couple weeks.

I bought my 04' in Feb. certified from the dealer. I feel like I got a good deal, car had 36k. I might be paranoid but it seems like the clutch is a little more worn that I would like it to be. Not to offend anyone but I think the previous driver was a female(the center console smell like make up when the car sits in the sun). Anyway to gauge the wear on my clutch? I don't think I will be replacing in very soon but just curious..

Also, is it normal for the clutch pedal to be to the floor to get the reverse in? My last accord was an auto...

any help appreciated..

I bought my 04' in Feb. certified from the dealer. I feel like I got a good deal, car had 36k. I might be paranoid but it seems like the clutch is a little more worn that I would like it to be. Not to offend anyone but I think the previous driver was a female(the center console smell like make up when the car sits in the sun). Anyway to gauge the wear on my clutch? I don't think I will be replacing in very soon but just curious..

Also, is it normal for the clutch pedal to be to the floor to get the reverse in? My last accord was an auto...

any help appreciated..

Have you driven another Accord MT to compare the clutch feel? It's possible that the softer feel of the clutch is "the norm" for the Accord.

That being said, there really isn't a way to tell how worn a clutch is. Once is starts to slip, then you know it needs replacing.

As far as the clutch travel, you should always press the clutch pedal completely in when shifting.

Heal toe?? Rev match?? That is really unnessary. I thought you were trying to get good gas milage out of the car? Every time you blip the throttle for a rev match your wasting gas. I have got a best of 30.5mpg city driving with a totally stock 07 5-speed 4door. But normally I get around 28.5mpg.
As far as the clutch it is supposed to be buttery. Its not supposed to feel like an AWD clutch.
As far as going fast. With my stock 2007 4-door 5-speed I have pulled a best time of 15.495@89mph with a 2.1 60ft while powershifting. The best I have ran not powershifting is 15.69@88mph with a 2.3 60ft.
To get a good time on the drag strip you launch th car off the neutral rev limiter(4500ish rpm), and mess with clutch till it grabs, powershift second at redline, then powershift third at redline. Dont bother trying to shift past redline you won't do any better. This car has no balls at the top end.

If you don't know how or just started driving a clutch don't try to drive hard till you know how to drive properly. If you try to launch the car without knowing what your doing you will risk blowing the clutch or an axle. I can't stress this enough THIS CAR LOVES TO WHEEL HOP. Wheel hop is really really bad. Wheel hop breaks axles/motor mounts/tranny mounts.
Just please learn how to drive properly before you start driving like a bat out of hell.

As far as the clutch travel, you should always press the clutch pedal completely in when shifting.

I can slip into fifth gear with the clutch half compressed. Feels like the car was made to do this. Am I wrong?...

As far as going fast. With my stock 2007 4-door 5-speed I have pulled a best time of 15.495@89mph with a 2.1 60ft while powershifting. The best I have ran not powershifting is 15.69@88mph with a 2.3 60ft.
To get a good time on the drag strip you launch th car off the neutral rev limiter(4500ish rpm), and mess with clutch till it grabs, powershift second at redline, then powershift third at redline. Dont bother trying to shift past redline you won't do any better. This car has no balls at the top end.

I can't stress this enough THIS CAR LOVES TO WHEEL HOP. Wheel hop is really really bad. Wheel hop breaks axles/motor mounts/tranny mounts.
Just please learn how to drive properly before you start driving like a bat out of hell.How the heck did you cut a 2.1 60' without wheel hop? All your other times (15.69 @88Mph with a 2.3 something 60' & fuel mileage numbers sound in line.

How the heck did you cut a 2.1 60' without wheel hop? All your other times (15.69 @88Mph with a 2.3 something 60' & fuel mileage numbers sound in line.

Magic... lol
It just kind of happens. I've did it only a few times. Most of my 60' is 2.2-2.3

Here is the slip.....I am on the left.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff263/x10secondzx2/IMAGE_170.jpg