Since I don't feel comfortable doing it myself, and I read several posts "warning" not to use any fluid other than genuine Honda, and since Honda charges $140 for the job, does anyone know if a non-Honda shop will do the work if I get the ATF from Honda? Anyone has experience with that? I am sure they will charge higher labor which is fine, but I think it will be cheaper than then doing it at Honda.

140 for the job? My god!

That's a rip. You should tell them on the phone that a simple drain and refill should be no more than $60-80 bucks. Insanity!

You could probably buy the fluid and have a mom and pop shop nearby do it. :yes: Or call another dealer, they all charge different amounts.

Indy shops charge about $40 here in Miami if I bring the fluid from Honda. It shouldn't cost much more than that in your area. It's literally 15 minutes tops. The parts department tried to scare me when I went to go buy fluid saying that it's risky DIY. I don't use them anymore needless to say.

If you know how to change oil its the same concept; drain and refill. I only let a shop do it if I feel lazy.

It's a pretty easy procedure, 15 minutes should do the trick unless you're doing a system flush that takes triple the time and amount of fluid that's needed. Most local shop would charge half an hour for a routine drain & refill.

The owner's manual recommends a simple drain and refill done 3 times in a row to change all the fluid. A power flush is not recommended. Changing the filter is also easy, it's a little filter located behind the battery. It's a very simple job, any oil change shop can do it.

I do it once a year, but since I drive only 15,000 miles per year, I don't repeat the drain & refill 3 times, I do it just one time. You need 3 quarts of Honda ATF for the drain & refill.

And make sure you use Honda ATF because its different from other ATF fluids, such as Dexron III.

Please consider doing it yourself. You will save money and feel good about a job well done when finished. As stated above it is as easy as changing the engine oil. I bet there are step by step procedure instructions listed on this site.

It's about the same as changing the oil....work wise.

Buy Honda AFT.

NEVER EVER EVER power flush it!

That 140 must've included some sort of other inspection. :dunno:

It's a pretty easy procedure, 15 minutes should do the trick unless you're doing a system flush that takes triple the time and amount of fluid that's needed. Most local shop would charge half an hour for a routine drain & refill.

It's about the same as changing the oil....work wise.

Buy Honda AFT.

NEVER EVER EVER power flush it!

That 140 must've included some sort of other inspection. :dunno:

The above offerings are the truth.. it is an easy do it your self project

here is a mini post I did when I changed my ATF

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12988

Diff. filters on the I-4 and V6.

So if you take it else where make sure they do the filter.

It really is a bone idle simple job.

It's about the same as changing the oil....work wise.

Buy Honda AFT.

NEVER EVER EVER power flush it!

That 140 must've included some sort of other inspection. :dunno:

All ATF flush machines use the transmission's internal pump to circulate the fluid. No external pressure is added.

I don't see anything wrong with doing a complete fluid exchange as long as it is with the correct fluid and additional additives are not used. If you read Honda's bulletin on flushing, their main concerns were that the flush itself is not required by Honda and that people were using additional additives.

Well, I just called another dealer and they quoted $89, which is much more reasonable. I called the first dealer, they guy tells me it is $99. I asked him how come when I called two days ago I was quoted $140 and another dealer quoted $89? So he asks some kind of a folder/piece of paper from someone, says "hold on", and 10 seconds later tells me "right, it is $89, someone gave you the wrong quote".

So for $89 I think I'll let the dealer deal with it. I feel somewhat intimidated by this procedure. I am sure if I had access to a lift I would do it without thinking twice, but I don't feel like dealing with drain while crawling underneath.

Thanks for all your responses.

Well, I just called another dealer and they quoted $89, which is much more reasonable. I called the first dealer, they guy tells me it is $99. I asked him how come when I called two days ago I was quoted $140 and another dealer quoted $89? So he asks some kind of a folder/piece of paper from someone, says "hold on", and 10 seconds later tells me "right, it is $89, someone gave you the wrong quote".

So for $89 I think I'll let the dealer deal with it. I feel somewhat intimidated by this procedure. I am sure if I had access to a lift I would do it without thinking twice, but I don't feel like dealing with drain while crawling underneath.

Thanks for all your responses.

Dude, this is so simple on the 7th gen I-4, and wont even cost $20 for the fluid. How many miles are on your car? Do you change your own oil? This job is half the work of a oil change. Wish I had $69 dollars to waste. You don't even have to lift the car.

Dude, this is so simple on the 7th gen I-4, and wont even cost $20 for the fluid. How many miles are on your car? Do you change your own oil? This job is half the work of a oil change. Wish I had $69 dollars to waste. You don't even have to lift the car.

42K, and no - I do not change my own oil.

Then I would probably just have it done at the next oil change. At 42K one drain and fill is probably adequate. Then probably every 20K or so after that. Sorry for the harsh response, I assumed your were a do-it-yourself type.

Then I would probably just have it done at the next oil change. At 42K one drain and fill is probably adequate. Then probably every 20K or so after that. Sorry for the harsh response, I assumed your were a do-it-yourself type.

Not a problem.

I am a diy'er...sometimes...at least I am trying to be, but mostly at home, not with cars. I mean - I did hard-wired my radar detector :yes: but for some reason I feel intimidated with this thing. To be honest with you, even when I drain the oil from my lawn mower and snow thrower I leave marks on the drive away, so I don't want to imagine what ATF drain by me will look like, if you know what I'm saying.

Then I would probably just have it done at the next oil change. At 42K one drain and fill is probably adequate. Then probably every 20K or so after that. Sorry for the harsh response, I assumed your were a do-it-yourself type.

So if you drain the fluid..about three quarts come out? Is this correct? So if you do it at home you cannot very well spin the wheels if you are not on a lift. So what do you do? Put in two, maybe 2 1/2 quarts just switch the transmission through the gears and recheck?

Just want to know how everybody is dealing with this when you do the change it in your driveway?

So if you drain the fluid..about three quarts come out? Is this correct? So if you do it at home you cannot very well spin the wheels if you are not on a lift. So what do you do? Put in two, maybe 2 1/2 quarts just switch the transmission through the gears and recheck?

Just want to know how everybody is dealing with this when you do the change it in your driveway?

All you need to do is put back in the amount that the drain pan collects. When I did mine I would put 2.5 qts back in, drive it for a few miles. When you turn off the motor check the level and fill to the top fill line or even a bit under and your done. HINT: If you drain on a slight upgrade slant, less will come out on the 7th gen I-4. If your drain on a slight downhill slant more will come out.
Hope this helps.

I bet there are step by step procedure instructions listed on this site.

:yes:

Bam!!! (http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14714)

:D

Well, I just called another dealer and they quoted $89, which is much more reasonable. I called the first dealer, they guy tells me it is $99. I asked him how come when I called two days ago I was quoted $140 and another dealer quoted $89? So he asks some kind of a folder/piece of paper from someone, says "hold on", and 10 seconds later tells me "right, it is $89, someone gave you the wrong quote".

I bet if you had told them that another dealer quoted you $70, they would have said, "right, it is $70. Someone gave you the wrong quote." :rolleyes:

:yes:

Bam!!! (http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14714)

:D

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banana::banana::banana:

I know some people on this forum are not going to like this, but for the people that are intimidated by jacking up your car and getting underneath it, this is what I use -

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/car+maintenance/oil+changes/hand+pump+oil+-+liquid+extractor.do

It sucks out about 2.75 to 3 qts of atf through the dipstick. I can change my ATF without getting my hands and back dirty.

I know some people on this forum are not going to like this, but for the people that are intimidated by jacking up your car and getting underneath it, this is what I use -

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/car+maintenance/oil+changes/hand+pump+oil+-+liquid+extractor.do

It sucks out about 2.75 to 3 qts of atf through the dipstick. I can change my ATF without getting my hands and back dirty.

It's interesting. I am personally thinking about some ramps. I have seen some pretty inexpensive.

You guys are quite energetic, I just let the Honda dealer do it every 30,000 miles. My time is worth too much to do it myself...........:)

You guys are quite energetic, I just let the Honda dealer do it every 30,000 miles. My time is worth too much to do it myself...........:)

I agree.
Which also raises another question - if people here are such huge believers in Honda and its product, and the word "quality" comes up all the time, why do people show absolutely zero trust in what Honda says regarding changing ATF and instead they think it needs to be done every 10K, 20K, 30K...whatever each one feels? I don't understand this. I never had thoughts of changing ATF outside Owners Manual schedule until I came to this site and got somewhat 'brainwashed' (not trying to be disrespectful, just playing with words) about this issue. I think there are more posts in this forum about ATF than any other subject.
If someone can please enlighten me about this I will appreciate it.

considering the previous generation"s transmission debacle, it is cheap insurance. I drain and fill every 30K or so. dealer wanted 49 bucks to drain/fill

considering the previous generation"s transmission debacle, it is cheap insurance. I drain and fill every 30K or so. dealer wanted 49 bucks to drain/fill

Are there proven facts that transmissions in previous generations went bad because ATF wasn't changed every X miles?

You guys are quite energetic, I just let the Honda dealer do it every 30,000 miles. My time is worth too much to do it myself...........

Which also raises another question - if people here are such huge believers in Honda and its product, and the word "quality" comes up all the time, why do people show absolutely zero trust in what Honda says regarding changing ATF and instead they think it needs to be done every 10K, 20K, 30K...whatever each one feels?

As was mentioned earlier in this thread this procedure takes mere minutes to accomplish so the idea of time is bogus. I do most of my own auto work because I don’t have time to deal with my local dealer, their waiting list and the need to bring the car back when they screw it up (oh yea, and inflated cost service ripoffs).

Regarding the mileage and owners manual recommendations, most cars are outside the normal operating mode, which means that they need maintenance for harsh operating environments. So again I defer to the above, because of the ease of the process and the potential huge benefit I change my ATF more often than recommended, same with my engine oil. I plan on keeping and owning my car for a long time but if I leased the car I might think differently.

IMHO…

I agree.
Which also raises another question - if people here are such huge believers in Honda and its product, and the word "quality" comes up all the time, why do people show absolutely zero trust in what Honda says regarding changing ATF and instead they think it needs to be done every 10K, 20K, 30K...whatever each one feels? I don't understand this. I never had thoughts of changing ATF outside Owners Manual schedule until I came to this site and got somewhat 'brainwashed' (not trying to be disrespectful, just playing with words) about this issue. I think there are more posts in this forum about ATF than any other subject.
If someone can please enlighten me about this I will appreciate it.

My dealer has what they call a "quick" oil change. They quote 45 minutes (which isn't too bad) but the thing is it's never 45 minutes...closer to an hour. Then of course the service writer has to close the ticket. Then you go to the cashier, and then they call for your car.

You can do this yourself in 20 minute. Or you can go to a "speedy type place" (and watch what they are doing) and it takes 30 minutes and for most of us it is more convenient.

The transmission fluid change is 15 minutes top for diyer. For the 25 bucks it's cheap insurance. I live in Southern California where every day is "harsh" on a car. Currently while I am writing is it's 102 degrees outside.

There you go!

Are there proven facts that transmissions in previous generations went bad because ATF wasn't changed every X miles?

Not at all.

In fact, I just spoke to another user on this site, and he owns a 03 EX-L V6 with 165k. His transmission is failing, and he replaced the fluid at every other oil change. I also moderate the 2nd Generation TL forum on AcuraZine.com, and many members have experienced transmission failures. As far as I can tell, there is absolutely no correlation between transmission failures and maintenance.

I guess you may feel better if you changed the fluid more frequently, as you would know that you had done everything possible if the transmission did fail on you, but I have yet to see any solid evidence linking failures to the frequency of fluid changes.

If you want a correlation to play with, consider the fact that 99.9% of Honda tranny failures involve the proprietary z1 fluid. I wonder how many of those failures could have been avoided with synthetic fluid and good filtering.

There doesn't really seem to be a correlation between frequent ATF changes in the 7th gens & the failures. We THOUGHT so because there WAS with the previous ones. The 7th gens seems to be mostly the type of driving. They last longer if they aren't in stop & go traffic.... the commuter stuff. Freeway speed seems fine. When they heat up in the low load speeds is when second gear isn't getting enough fluid. Many have been saved by the oil jet kit in the early ones. Not all. The newer ones are better...but there's still a weakness in the same area. I'm hoping they made larger or better placed passages to the second gear area in the 8th gen. Time will tell.

We started out changing the ATF with every oil change...every 5K. We don't now because of the patterns seen.

The majority ARE lasting. But the percentage of failure isn't the 0.04% that Honda parts have had in the past.

My car has rarely seen commuter traffic. I'm not worried. I drive it pretty hard. They seem to last longer under a heavy load than a light one. Unfortunately, just like the rest of the owners of V6 ATs in the 7th gen, I'm at the mercy of the product too!:paranoid:

On the 7th gen, is the percentage of transmission failures any different with the V6 engines than with the 4 cylinders ones?

The is NO pattern with the L4s.... there is with the V6s.

On the 7th gen, is the percentage of transmission failures any different with the V6 engines than with the 4 cylinders ones?

Mostly with the V6. I was speaking to H&A Transmissions (www.hnatrans.com), the company that rebuilds transmissions for Honda, and the rep told me that they are still rebuilding lots of 03-05 Accord transmissions at their facility. Nearly all of them are V6s. I'm rather surprised that even the 04+ V6 models are still failing, I guess this confirms this recent wave of 04+ TL transmissions that have failed over on AcuraZine.

....They last longer if they aren't in stop & go traffic.... the commuter stuff. Freeway speed seems fine. When they heat up in the low load speeds is when second gear isn't getting enough fluid. Many have been saved by the oil jet kit in the early ones. Not all.....

That is very true. I am close to 120k miles and still not a hint of issues. About 80% of that is highway. However there is another angle into all this. Canada! Cold 5 months a year! Even in stop and go traffic at sub-zero temps these transmissions don't heat up to the point of breaking down. So perhaps life expectancy of the transmissions in Canada is higher because we drive them in cold weather for half the year?

One more note: its not only the 2nd gear problem. It is also that some times crude oil gets stuck in the solenoid valves that control the gears. Some folks had some sucess taking these valves out, cleaning them and putting them back in... just something I am planning to do as preventive maintenance this summer.

I changed my ATF at 50k miles... using AMSOIL synthetic ATF. I just did one drain and fill, and it made a noticeable difference. The car shifts SO smooth, you almost can't feel it. Also, when moving the shift lever, the gears don't "jerk" in. When shifting from P to R and D, the gears engage very smooth now. It's been about 7k miles, and I drained/filled with Amsoil ATF again. There was no noticeable difference, but the car still shifts smooth, and feels great.

I know some of you might be against non Honda fluids. I don't care. I've been wrenching on cars for 16 yrs, built my own race engines, etc... and am a firm believer of synthetics.

Oh, and I'm not affiliated with Amsoil either. I just feel they make kick ass oils.

-Just my experience~

Experience is what we all have to go on!!:yes: I'm happy it's worked well for you. :thmsup:

Is the ATF drain & fill/flush info the same for the hybrids? Took mine to Firestone, was told they could no do it b/c it was a hybrid. I know that may be a CYA on their part. However, when I saw how easy it is, I want to DIY it, however, just want to make sure there is nothing extra-special to do for a hybrid.

I use a marine inboard engine oil suction tank - 40 bucks and I pump it up, insert hose, crack the air and swoop! Fill er up w/ 2.5 qts, drive to work, such it out and refill 3x total. at least 3, 4x is better dilution. Never even get under under the car.

I just take three quart of Honda ATF with me to my independent oil change place when I am doing an oil change. They don't charge extra for the five minutes it takes them to drop the old and pour in the three quarts.

Don't know if it is needed, but the piece of mind of doing it every 15K is worth it.

I use a marine inboard engine oil suction tank - 40 bucks and I pump it up, insert hose, crack the air and swoop! Fill er up w/ 2.5 qts, drive to work, such it out and refill 3x total. at least 3, 4x is better dilution. Never even get under under the car.

That is a little scary. Reason why is that if there are any metal trimmings from the gears, that are sitting at the bottom and the drain bolt magnet hasn't caught yet, the suction from the pump may lift them up and God knows where they will get stuck on their way up.

I changed my ATF at 50k miles... using AMSOIL synthetic ATF. I just did one drain and fill, and it made a noticeable difference. The car shifts SO smooth, you almost can't feel it.

I'm not sure that this is a good thing, although most seem to prefer it.

Consider that the main wear parts in your AT are the clutch packs - it's material from them that wears off and makes the fluid dark and more viscous and also helps clog small passages in the trans. A hard shift indicates that the clutch pack is engaging quickly - a smooth shift indicates a longer period that the clutch pack is semi-engaged and wearing away. Based on this, the smooth shift will wear your clutch pack faster and result in more contamination in the fluid.

If you read the posts above that talk about problems in commuter traffic this all makes sense - commuter traffic involves lots more shifting and related clutch pack wear.

Some have also observed that in general, the newer ATs seem to have more problems than older cars did (not confined to Honda). My theory is that this is because the ECM/DCM in newer autos is programmed for better mileage and will shift more often to get the engine and drivetrain operating in the most efficient mode, this, and the fact that people like smooth shifting.

My last car had a button for something called "performance shift". Basically what it did was tell the DCM computer to make the shift faster and therefore a little more firm. It was actually recommended to operate in this mode if AT life was of concern.

Just my .02 worth....

Bruce

i wouldn't use anything besides ATF-Z1, i tried using M1 ATF once and although the shifts were firmer, after a couple thousand miles the tranny would no longer enter 5th gear/torque converter lockup.

It was always 500+ rpm too high on the freeway, something was obviously wrong. Fortunately after i drained and filled it back with honda ATF the problem disappeared.

the factory atf is thus obviously made to a specific viscosity/friction match to the clutch packs inside the tranny.
Honda ATs are different from most other manufacturers, most auto trannies use planetary gearsets, whereas honda autos use parallel shafts/gears/clutchpacks like a DSG tranny, but with a regular TC instead of wet clutch.