I bought an '04 EX 6MT coupe with 70,000 miles, and my clutch pedal makes strange noises. I have run a search and come up with a few threads, but none of them seem to be exact matches.

When I push the clutch down, it clicks two or three times, and when I let it back out, it clicks two or three times again. When I'm in a parking garage, I can hear what can only be described as a "creeking" noise, like a rusty spring, coming from the engine bay when I depress/unpress the clutch. Also, I notice my clutch pedal feels abnormally heavy (hard to press down). Since I read that others find this to be a light-weight clutch, I'm wondering what the situation calls for?

I understand there is a TSB to reposition the clutch slave cylindar, so I suppose this is a possibility, but if that is the simple fix I'm looking for, will it also make the pedal feel "lighter"?

THanks DA!

DK

My TL was doing this as well (22k miles). I needed a new clutch master cylinder. I think a few others have had the same issue with their 6MT.

Can you feel the "clicks" when you press in the clutch?

Yes, that is when I feel the clicks...when I press in the clutch and also when I let the clutch out. How much should I expect to pay Honda to fix this problem? Also, did your clutch have feel heavier, or is this a different issue all together? I read something about a heavy spring on the '03/'04 that is upgradeable to a lighter spring from the later years?

I'm out of warranty, so what are my chances of getting this covered under TSB?

I know there are more people on here than this...Anybody?

My five speed has been doing it for some time but zero change in clutch feel or pedal pressure.

I do not know of the cost for this replacement as mine was under warranty...

Maybe someone else has done this out of their pocket?

Both my 03 and 06 5MTs had the creaking, clicking clutch. The 03 was addressed a couple of times. The 06 was once and it started to come back right before I traded it in.

There were a couple of TSBs for it. One involved lubing or replacing an O-ring and the second TSB was to reposition the clutch master cylinder. Not sure exactly how they worked but it did quell the noise for a few months at a time but as AFAIK, there wasn't a permanent fix.

Talk to your service dept. Since there are TSBs and its a known problem, they might be willing to at least split the costs with you.

Alright thanks for the replies. I'll just call my service department and see what they say. Because it's not a detrimental problem, I may just learn to live with it and not care. The clutch is heavy, but it's not too heavy, and I'm already used to the way the car drives so it's not a big deal. Plus, if it's not a permanent fix, it's pretty much pointless to blow $XXX.XX out of pocket. Thanks again!

Had the same prob with my '03 5MT

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=869

Made an appt and Honda replaced the Clutch master cylinder at no charge. No probs since.

My five speed has been doing it for some time but zero change in clutch feel or pedal pressure.

+1. Just noticed it on my 05 I-4 MT a few months ago (the clicks) but no change in the clutch feel whatsoever. I've learned to live with it.

So for all of you experienced manual transmission drivers, would you say that the pedal pressure is on par with previous manual automobiles you have owned, or would you say this pedal feels heavier?

I had the clutch master cylinder replaced 2 years ago, i had no problems for about 1.5 years and then it started coming back. So about 3 months ago i took it to the dealership again and they replaced the clutch master cylinder again. Not even 2 months later the creak/click click sound came back. I have an appointment for this thursday AGAIN. Both of the previous times it was fixed for free once under my certified warranty and the other time HONDA honored it again. I dunno whats going to happen this time but since it hasnt been 12 months or 12000 miles I am covered under their workmanship warranty. There is no way I can get used to the sound. It also feels rough when you push the clutch in and is never consistent. Not to mention the akwardness when someone is riding with you and you hear creaks every couple of seconds. I dont know why this is so hard to fix. It looks to me as if theyre putting in the same faulty master cylinders. I want to get rid of this problem once and for all.

I had the same problem. Dealer was able to fix by lubing a linkage in the clutch assembly. Unfortunatly, it came back about a year later and the tech is no longer with the dealership and they can't seem to fix, but it did work for about a year!

My '04 6 speed has always felt the same, about average effort and the clutch pedal makes no odd noises or click feels.

If you're hearing noises under the hood, the release fork could be creaking, the grease may have dried out on the pivot. There is no way to lube that pivot without pulling the trans.

If anyone can point me to the bulletin for the repositioned slave, I'd appreciate it. Never seen that one.

That very well could be the problem ^^

If that is indeed what has occured, should I expect it to negatively effect the life of my transmission, or is it purely a nuisance? I will ignore it so long as I won't be putting myself further in debt in the future.

The original clutch TSB (2004) is attached. I gave this to my service advisor for my 2006. When I picked up the car, he said another TSB has superceded it but I didn't get the number. The newer TSB was to reposition the cylinder.

Maybe Princess or someone can start with this one and see if there's an update for a newer one.

Thanks Trip! Princess, ohh prinnncess, where are you..

That very well could be the problem ^^

If that is indeed what has occured, should I expect it to negatively effect the life of my transmission, or is it purely a nuisance? I will ignore it so long as I won't be putting myself further in debt in the future.

If the squeak you're hearing is from under the hood, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
There's nothing you're going to do about it unless you like to spend lots of money multiple times.

The pivot and fork may wear a bit from the lack of lube, but when the clutch eventually needs to be done, remember to mention it (the squeaking) and the tech doing the work can inspect, relube or replace the pivot and fork. For what they cost, it's insignificant in comparison to the whole job.


btw: thanks for posting the bulletin, I think I read it a long time ago. Since I haven't heard anything strange I guess I forgot about it

My 03 5MT did/does the same thing. Took it to the dealer twice. The second time I asked them what they did (and were charging me for) and they were reluctant to tell me. I finally found they had lubed the pedal linkage right were it goes into the firewall inside at the fire wall. After I asked for a permanent solution, they told me replaceing the master cylinder would fix for a few hundred dollars.

I now take spray lube and spray a few squirts into the linkage hole. It lasts a few months and I do it again. It requires more in the winter or during very humid weather, but cheaper than the dealer fixes and works well.

Hope this helps everyone.

I bought an '04 EX 6MT coupe with 70,000 miles, and my clutch pedal makes strange noises. I have run a search and come up with a few threads, but none of them seem to be exact matches.

When I push the clutch down, it clicks two or three times, and when I let it back out, it clicks two or three times again. When I'm in a parking garage, I can hear what can only be described as a "creeking" noise, like a rusty spring, coming from the engine bay when I depress/unpress the clutch. Also, I notice my clutch pedal feels abnormally heavy (hard to press down). Since I read that others find this to be a light-weight clutch, I'm wondering what the situation calls for?

I understand there is a TSB to reposition the clutch slave cylindar, so I suppose this is a possibility, but if that is the simple fix I'm looking for, will it also make the pedal feel "lighter"?

THanks DA!

DK

I have a 06 4 cyl 5mt and have the same issue for about 2 months now.

Can this cause harm to the car if you let it go for a long time.

My car turned 50k miles last week and my clutch started squeaking. It's getting worse by the day.

Nice to know that Honda has not fixed this in the 06. I can understand an 03 being the first model year........but an 06?

I have a 06 4 cyl 5mt and have the same issue for about 2 months now.

Can this cause harm to the car if you let it go for a long time.

That is a bummer.

Let me ask you guys another question regarding "clutch woes". Does this Accord have some kind of torque management system that might cause the RPMs to shoot up 500-800 RPMs when the throttle is pushed all the way down in, say, 3rd or 4th gear at ~3000 RPMs, or is this a major indicator that my clutch is slipping? I don't understand, because I can put it in third going 50, floor it, and have no slippage, and even shift into 4th and have a relatively solid clutch feel, but when I try and accelerate in a higher gear at a lower RPM, I definitely notice ~30% of the time what does feel like clutch slippage. Please let me know what you all think, and I will be writing Honda Goodwill a big letter. Any advice?

DK

I was just in an '05 V6 6-speed the other day and noticed the clicking and thought to myself, "What the heck is that?!?" Thanks to this thread now I know, and I will pay special attention for it while on test drives. I'm saddened to see how common of a problem this is...

That is a bummer.

Let me ask you guys another question regarding "clutch woes". Does this Accord have some kind of torque management system that might cause the RPMs to shoot up 500-800 RPMs when the throttle is pushed all the way down in, say, 3rd or 4th gear at ~3000 RPMs, or is this a major indicator that my clutch is slipping? I don't understand, because I can put it in third going 50, floor it, and have no slippage, and even shift into 4th and have a relatively solid clutch feel, but when I try and accelerate in a higher gear at a lower RPM, I definitely notice ~30% of the time what does feel like clutch slippage. Please let me know what you all think, and I will be writing Honda Goodwill a big letter. Any advice?

DK

There is no torque management like what you're describing. When I floor my car in any gear it just pulls. There's no increase in revs prior to the car accelerating.

If you're in 6th on the highway, say at 75-80, and floor it, do the revs climb before it accelerates?

The only torque management is if the wheels slip and the tcs will kick in, but you won't see revs climb in that instance.

Yes, about 30-40% of the time, the RPMs will rev prior to the car accelerating. I'm pointing all 10 of my fingers right at the clutch. And I'm pointing two of them (the middle two) at the Honda dealership that told me "you brought a car up here saying it had a bad clutch, and its fine, you're obviously not as smart as you think you are". I wrote a letter to Honda Customer Service, and I am looking for goodwill consideration because of the way this case was handled.

Anybody happen to know what what is the address to mail this letter to?

http://automobiles.honda.com/information/customer-relations.aspx

Thank YOU Rtexas. Wish me luck folks!

:thmsup::wave: Go for it.

It really irks me how badly I was treated at the dealership from which I bought this car. I took the car back up the day after I purchased it and I told them the clutch was going bad. The guy said he "was able to chirp the tires into second gear" which to him meant it was fine. Now it is quite obviously slipping (unless there is anything else in a car that could cause something like this to happen..which I sure can't think of). I wrote a big letter to Honda Customer Service and I sincerely hope they will honor this case. I explained everything in detail including how badly I was treated at the dealership.

Is there anything else that you guys can think of that might cause a manual transmission to slip like this? This is unbelievable.

Is there anything else that you guys can think of that might cause a manual transmission to slip like this?

Other than flexiable rubber drive shaft, no way!

:D Good luck!

Interesting. I read that another thing which could cause a manual trannie to slip is a loose motor mount. I'll just **** it up and take my car to Honda for a $95.00 diagnostic. If they decide I need a new clutch, I'll wait for a response from Honda customer service.

One other thing, can this clutch be "adjusted" to allow for more life? I read that some clutches do!

As I mentioned already, this clutch has a self adjusting pressure plate to keep pedal effort constant throughout the service life of the clutch disc.

There are no other adjustments other than to make sure there is slight clearance between the master cylinder and the pushrod, which shouldn't be messed with. If that clearance is taken out, there is a chance to burn out the clutch as it will be partially released.
I've never actually looked at the pedal to pushrod area to see if there is a turnbuckle there to allow for this adjustment like older cars had.

If you had a bad engine or trans mount, you wouldn't have the revs climb as you see. You'd feel the engine jumping around as thumps, bangs, etc when getting on and off the power.

Nope. One thing Honda gave me is an absolutely buttery smooth, quiet, and very powerful V6 motor. The transmission feels tight, but at times a little stiff, as if it could use a good flush and new fluid. The clutch pedal is the only thing on the car that pisses me off, save the very few imprefections in the body, and the stretch marks and 2 or 3little rips on the passenger seat. The clutch pedal is heavy, it clicks when you push it in, and take it out, it has an extremely deep throw, but only grabs in the last 20% of the release point, and now it seems to be slipping. I have said it a few times already, but I took the car back from where it was purchased the second day I owned it, and told them the clutch was slipping, and they essentially gave me the finger and said the clutch was perfectly fine. Less than two months later, the clutch is now slipping during acceleration. I can only hope it's not doing any damage to other components. It's Honda's obligation to fix this customer service issue IMO!! This is the perfect goodwill case, and I have all the records.

Well I finally spoke with Honda today and I am thoroughly disappointed. Turns out Honda will not help me with this problem because I test drove the car after they took care of the "vibrating idle" and check engine light and I said the car felt fine. They did a great job convincing me that my left foot was too heavy, and I paid for it. They told me they had never seen an accord with less than 130,000 miles come back with a bad clutch. The guy at Honda said he had no proof I didn't sabotage my clutch after I left the dealership, so he can't help me. It might be hard to believe, but I've been 100% honest and now I've been 100% honestly screwed by both Sierra Honda and American Honda Cust. Service. $1800 bucks down the toilet.

whose to say the previous owner didnt abuse the clutch?

I'm sure the previous owner abused the clutch.

so why would honda replace the clutch for free?

because they sold me the car without telling me I was goin to have to spend 1800 bucks for a new clutch almost immediately, and also lied to me the day after I bought it and brought it back up for a diagnostic. They told me the clutch was fine and that I was stupid. The clutch isn't fine and never was. I would expect them to at least pay for half for such horrible customer service and not disclosing something wrong with the car. That's not really "good faith" in my book.

if the clutch was "never fine" why didnt you notice it when you test drove it? why did you still buy the car if you did notice it?

was this a Honda Certified Pre-Owned car? or just a used car from a honda dealer? did the window sticker have the "AS-IS" or "WARRANTY" box checked?

you say the clutch pedal is stiff. 7th gen accords have really low effort clutches. what are you comparing it to? it could be that the previous owner put in a performance clutch, which could increase the pedal effort. in which case honda

I have a couple of opinions here.

One is the former owner could have been a clutch rider.

Two, the clutch pressure plate could have been bad, causing higher effort, but lower clamping pressure. (is it easier now?) What did they change for the money, btw?

Even if you had bought the car brand new, the dealer/Honda may have warrantied the clutch once, if it failed so early on. But, after one, they get wary (actually any dealer or shop will) and won't warranty it.

As a side note, many years ago when I worked at a Pontiac dealer, a lady bought one of the first Grand Ams with a HO Quad 4 engine, and 5 speed. The first clutch "mouse furred" in just 200 miles. In went a new assembly. Another 400 miles, the same thing happened. Again, in went another assembly. We all wondered what was going on.

I saw her leaving the lot and quickly brought out our dispatcher. Nearly 7000 rpm and the car crawling out the lot was scary, then the "shifts" which sounded like a badly slipping auto trans clued us in.

When she returned another 200 miles later on the hook, the dealership owner even-swapped her for a car with an automatic. Otherwise, she was told that she'd be back charged for all 3 clutch jobs. We installed another clutch and a new owner bought it as a used car and it never had another problem with the clutch.

That is an example of severe abuse.

...clutch abuse. Good story, Fred. Thanks.

.....best, ez....

Another thought . . .

@ OP: What other cars with MTs have you driven? Is it possible that you're interpreting a different engagement point as clutch slippage?

My Prelude Si clutch engagement is practically "in the carpet." I can flick my toes and the clutch is engaged. It makes the 7th gen V6 6MT engagement look slow by comparison. :D

My 08 Coupe engages higher of the floor. My 2.4L 5MT engaged even higher. I thought something was wrong with my A4 and Passat at first because the engagement point was almost at the very, very top of the pedal travel. And for being such a high engagement point, the gears would still grind unless the clutch was firmly pushed to the floor. It made for a very tiring driving experience because of the long "active" range.

Driving all the above cars back to back would make the "higher" clutches seem like they were slipping in fact when they're just designed different.

If the clutch is let up (regardless of where in the pedal travel it engages) and the car immediately accelerates forward along with the revs, there is no slippage. Its possible you may be detecting another issue with the clutch but "slippage" doesn't sound like te proper term for what might be going on.

A trick to test for true slippage . . . In a parking lot, stop the car, put it in 3rd and take off. Stop again, then try 4th from a stand still. And then 5th. If you're able to rev the engine to keep the car from stalling, and the car is not moving, the clutch is "free spinning". With the car fully in gear, the load from starting the car in motion will either overwhelm the engine and stall it or cause it to "lug" as it slowly gains speed. If you're able to rev the engine while in gear and the car doesn't move, the clutch is really slipping.

My 08 Coupe engages higher of the floor. .


...nice dissertation, Trip (seriously).

If you will contrast (clutch engagement-wise) your new 6M and my GenVII 6M,
I'll get you in for free at the California State Railroad Museum (should you ever visit our state capital).

best, ez....

Thank you for all the great responses! I can go from a standstill and floor it with a little bit of wheel spin and the clutch works fine. The clutch slips, however, when I'm already moving (and have been on the freeway, or driving for 15-20 minutes straight), and I go to pass somebody or something, the revs climb prematurely and then drop. This is without my foot anywhere near the clutch pedal.

My first manual was a 1990 toyota pickup 4x4...very lightweight and grabby clutch..could shift with no gas all the way to 5th gear and just coast along. Second car with manual tranny was a 1999.5 VW jetta. It had a slightly heavier clutch but very good clutch feel. The third car was a 2004 Focus ZX3...very light and very strong clutch. Fourth car was a 2004 Focus SVT...original clutch was heavy, perhaps as heavy as this accord clutch, but had a good feel to it. I had the clutch replaced at 40K for fear of it exploding and taking the bellhousing with it. $1200 done by Ford under TSB. The new clutch in the SVT Focus was half as heavy, and twice as strong. Move to 2004 Honda Accord, which felt fine when I test drove it. It was wet out and the tires slipped easily which to me meant that the clutch was perfectly fine. Drove the car 125 miles home and test drove with mom later that night. Noticed clutch felt slippery on shifts. Took it back up to LA next day and thats when it all began. Since then, it has gotten worse! It's not my shifting, it is a faulty clutch that was included in the purchase of the car.

For the record, I bought this car Ce;rtified Used with 150 point inspection from a legitimate Honda Dealership.

I tried the "let the clutch out and ride it in 5th gear" thing and it revved a little bit then stalled.

Is it possible there is a bad motor mount?

Get a second opinion at a honda dealership you have not been to. Take it to them, tell them the symptoms and see what they say the diagnosis is. Its odd that it only slips in some conditions, especially since you were able to do the 5th and kill it trick.

If it were my car I would do either

A> live with it until it failed (it could be a very long time, I used to drive a volvo and the release bearing made noise, I drove it to 185,000 miles like this, the rear main seal failed finally and I put a clutch in then - point being it may be a long long time before it fails totally)

B> Have a Spec stage 2 clutch installed, consider it a "upgrade" and move on.

a bad motor mount wont cause clutch slippage.

i bet the dealer just test drove it and said there was nothing wrong with it, because actually checking the clutch would require pulling the transmission. they aren't going to do all that labor and pull the transmission for free just to inspect the clutch. while its out, you might as well have it replaced anyways because the only extra labor would be like 15 mins to swap out the clutch.

i understand that you're upset that something is wrong with your car so soon after you bought it. but assuming the clutch was fine when the dealer did their inspection, there isnt really any way for them to know that it was on the verge of going out so its not really their fault. and being that it is a wear item, its not going to be covered under any warranty or goodwill consideration....especially when there is 70k on it already. i realize the car is "new" to you, but that still doesnt change the fact that the clutch has worked presumably trouble free for 70k miles already with possible abuse. even a brand new car under factory warranty with 20k miles, they would be VERY hesitant to do warranty work on a clutch...its just too easy to ruin a clutch and driver abuse is not a manufacturing defect.

...nice dissertation, Trip (seriously).

If you will contrast (clutch engagement-wise) your new 6M and my GenVII 6M,
I'll get you in for free at the California State Railroad Museum (should you ever visit our state capital).

best, ez....

RR aficionado? Me too. I've been to the Strasburg PA Railroad Museum a number of times. Even started the tables for a layout in my basement but had to scrap it when I left PA. I might take u up on your offer some day. ;)

As for the clutches . . .

The gen V6 6MT clutch take up felt almost toggle like to me. It engages very low in the pedal travel and very quickly. There seemed to be only a small "window of opportunity" to modulate the clutch and gas for a seamless take off. I was only able to launch the cars smoothly 50% of the time. I would either get a slight thump in forward motion or slightly slip the clutch. At speed it wasn't as much of an issue but I would occasionally get a 'hard' shift because I let up the clutch pedal too quickly. On steep hills the characteristics would tend to be more pronounced trying to manage minimal roll back. I've had the chance to drive the V6 6MTs (coupe and sedan) a number of times at length. I've driven MTs for nearly 2 decades :paranoid: and rarely have any issues. The 7th gen 6MT clutches always had a quirkiness about them that I never quite was able to get used to.

The 7th gen V6 6MT clutch feels very much like my Prelude's clutch . . . engages very low and very quickly. The big difference being that the Prelude's clutch is much more tactile than those in newer Hondas. I can feel the pedal quiver ever so slightly under my toes so I can better judge how close to actual engagement I am. Newer Honda's clutch pedals are pretty numb by comparison. Not good, not bad . . . just different.

08 V6 6MT . . . The clutch is very forgiving. It engages low to the floor but there's a much greater area in the clutch pedal travel where you can modulate it. If I let up too quickly at low speeds, it just grabs and goes with a slight thump. If I let up too quickly for a fast launch, it just grabs and goes with a slight thump. Most of the time I can get an almost liquid take off by tapping the gas and letting up the clutch quickly, then slowly for just a nano second, and then fully releasing it. Steep hills are no problems either. The engine doesn't rev any higher or change how I release the clutch.

/\
How's the 8th gen clutch in traffic? Sounds like it's pretty easy and not really an issue.

As for the clutches . . .

The gen V6 6MT clutch take up felt almost toggle like to me. It engages very low in the pedal travel and very quickly.



This seems to be the polar opposite of my clutch action. My clutch makes absolutely no movement for probably 7 inches, and then there is a very tiny space at the very top where it grabs. It is the deepest clutch I have ever felt. I really only need to push the clutch in 20% to shift smoothly. Fishy...

As for the wear and tear clutch issue..I understand what you're all saying, and I will probably just live with it until it becomes a real problem. For now, it drives fine, and it doesn't slip unless I get on it.

This seems to be the polar opposite of my clutch action. My clutch makes absolutely no movement for probably 7 inches, and then there is a very tiny space at the very top where it grabs. It is the deepest clutch I have ever felt. I really only need to push the clutch in 20% to shift smoothly. Fishy...

As for the wear and tear clutch issue..I understand what you're all saying, and I will probably just live with it until it becomes a real problem. For now, it drives fine, and it doesn't slip unless I get on it.

It sounds like it might almost be time for a new clutch if its engaging high in the pedal travel and there are some slight signs of slippage. A hydraulic clutch will matain pedal effort and feel but the clutch engagement point can change.

The previous owner may have had a heavy clutch foot. Either they consistently slipped it too much while shifting or kept their foot on the clutch while they were driving. 70K is early for clutch replacement relatively speaking but its not unheard of.

Overall, everything sounds normal with your car . . . as far as the characteristics of a worn clutch go. Otherwise, mechanically everything seems to be operating as designed. Keep paying attention to it. Make sure your clutch reservoir is topped off with the appropriate hydraulic brake fluid.

Okay thanks for the words of wisdom Trip. Everything is definitely operating mechanically sound and I hope it continues that way. One thing I was wondering is if VTEC has a shelf-life, or should this car be capable of climbing to 6500 RPMs for a long time? I don't rev it high very often at all, but I would like to know that as long as it's properly maintained, I can enjoy that boost every so often while I own the car!

VTEC is good as long as everything is in working condition and there is enough oil.

you should have the timing belt changed at around 100k though, if it hasnt been changed yet.

I'll take my car in for an inspection down the road at some point. I still have almost 30,000 miles until my timing belt service must be done, and if the car can go that long on the current clutch I will just wait. It doesn't slip all the time, and the car has hard acceleration under most conditions, so I'll "take it easy" for a while and see if I can drag the clutch life out a little further. I hope I'm not messing something up by doing this. A little reaffirmation would be awesome! Thanks again everybody..you're very helpful, and I hope this thread helps somebody some day.

this seems to be a prevalent issue with alot of the k-series transmissions. i have an 03 with an exedy stg2 clutch and lightened flywheel and it makes a slight squeak everytime i depress the clutch. i replaced the TO bearing thinking that was the culprit but no dice.

Mine makes a slight clicking noise and I can feel a very slight click with my foot at the bottom of the clutch pedal travel and right at the beginning of releasing the clutch pedal. I had the dealer check it out when I first bought my 03 6MT and they did not experience it, of course because it's not all the time. I ended up spraying the release spring up near the firewall with some WD40 and it seemed to work for about 3-4 months, but it slowly came back and is once again on and off. I'm thinking about just making it part of my scheduled maintenance every other oil change to spray it a few times and leave it at that. Over the past year I've gotten pretty used to it and the clutch still holds like a champ so I shouldn't complain about it too much. It's a very minor inconvenience overall.

How loud are the clicks? Can you hear it with the engine running?

I can barely hear it. Before the first time I sprayed it with WD40 it sounded like a squeek, but now I can't hear it I can only feel it on the bottom of my foot.

I've decided to just live with the noise my pedal makes and the slight slipping my clutch seems to do until I have paid other expenses and saved enough money to pay for it myself without using the credit card..I hate using the credit card. Like was said before, just because the clutch exhibits slipping doesn't mean it is going to die immediately. I sense at least another 10-15K miles before it becomes a real problem--maybe even further since I always try and maximize MPG. Thanks for all the advice and I will let you all know what happens next.

I ended up spraying the release spring up near the firewall with some WD40 and it seemed to work for about 3-4 months.


.....I'd like to try that for the subtle clicking my clutch pedal puts forth every now and then........

Do you access the release spring in the engine compartment, under the car or inside the vehicle?


thanks.
ez....

I'd bet it is one of very many faulty master cylinders. Mine clicked and creaked at 18k, and honda finally succumbed to replacing the mc after trying to greasing it several times. A goodwill replacement may depend on the dealership you're dealing with. On a positive note, it shouldnt be detrimental – Just annoy you to the point of consideration to trading it in for an AT.

I'd bet it is one of very many faulty master cylinders. Mine clicked and creaked at 18k, and honda finally succumbed to replacing the mc after trying to greasing it several times. A goodwill replacement may depend on the dealership you're dealing with. On a positive note, it shouldnt be detrimental, but it may annoy you to the point that you might consider trading it in for an AT.

I can live with the clicking..matter of fact I don't notice it anymore. It's the slipping clutch that has me working as much as possible to save the $ required for the fix. Just hoping it holds out until I hit that mark. BTW I'm a "starvin' student".

I called a local transmission specialist to have an estimate done and they quoted me ~700 less than Honda. They also have an unconditional one year warranty on their work and they are very well known. My car does not have a warranty, so what would be the advantage of going through Honda to have this work done?

Also, what is the deal with resurfacing the flywheel in this car, because that is one thing they mentioned on the phone...if the clutch is bad, is it likely that the flywheel needs to be replaced as well?

Thanks!

I just went through this, honda recommends according to my service advisor, "only resurfacing the flywheel if necessary"

Make sure they either use performance parts (SPEC etc) or honda, and not some napa parts store special parts.

Thanks for the replies again.

I took my car to the Honda dealership today to have them check out the clutch and see if it is OK. I took it for a test drive with the service tech and he drove. It exhibited what I was talking about one time but not in a serious manner. He said my clutch feels totally fine and that what I was feeling is probably the drive-by-wire's way of making the acceleration "smoother" because it doesn't let the car slam you back while accelerating. I don't know if I buy it because I've never heard of this, nor have I ever seen a car do this. I'll just take them at their word and keep driving it. If it goes out, it goes out, if it runs another 100K with this clutch, great! Either way, apparently I'm still blanketed by the 12K, 12 month purchase warranty, and the 100K powertrain warranty so I"m stoked. They are going to get rid of the "clicking" the clutch pedal does for me for the cost of the parts. On another note, I got my windows tinted and it looks NICE!

D

I'm still 99% sure my clutch is shot. I don't know what to do though because the Honda guy told me it's perfectly fine.

I'm goin to try and explain exactly what my car is doing but it's still very hard to replicate in words so here goes:

imagine you're driving along at 50 miles per hour in third gear. You push the accelerator to the floor, and your revs rise 1000 RPMs, but the car feels weak, then about one or two seconds later, the car accelerates hard and the revs match the noise coming from the engine. BUT..AND THIS IS A BIG BUT, if you do the same thing again immediately after, the car accelerates hard and doesn't "rise" revs at all. Shift gears from there, and do it all again, and it rises revs, but then if you do it again in the same gear immediately after it slips, it holds perfectly fine.

The guy was able to stall the car easily in 5th gear with the e-brake on, so that means it's not slipping.

What the heck is this??

slipping should be consistent. If anything as a slipping clutch gets hotter, it will slip more not less.

By weak what do you mean? What about from a stop if you bring the revs way up to say like 4500-5k let the clutch out hard in 1st, does it grab pretty well? How long do the revs stay there.

Bottom line. Keep driving, and stop worrying. I would suggest you drive it until you cant drive anymore. If your nice to a slipping clutch you can really make it last, Ive gone more than 30k on clutches that were really slipping.

Either way, since your having trouble figuring out if it is or not, it cant be slipping that bad. Id be pretty surprised if you dont make it quite a bit longer.

Ps. Where are you located? Maybe one of us is close with a MT, and you can have someone else drive yours thats used to a 6MT.

Also, If your really really concerned - go to an acura dealership, they have a lot more 6mt cars that are drive by wire, honda sees a very small % of manuals.

It’s hard for me to believe a post about a slipping clutch could extend to 5 pages!

On level ground get into 5th gear at 42Mph which is about 1600Rpm. Put the throttle to the floor; if the motor races your clutch is slipping, if the motor slowly increases Rpm, the clutch is fine. Simple!

I've done that and the motor races about 1000 RPMs and then drops back down and then increases slowly. It definitely slips more as the car has been driven longer.

So if the clutch is indeed on its way out, which I suspect, it would be foolish financially for me to buy a new clutch before I have put this one completely out of commission, but I like to drive my cars quickly (not abusively..), and this car feels like an incomplete package to me. The motor puts out such nice power but I can only use 80% of it.

Would anybody else find this irritating enough to cough up the money for a fresh clutch? I suppose I also have the option of putting in an upgraded clutch, but I have no idea which clutch upgrades work well and there isn't much information on this forum that I've been able to find.

whitey

have you looked underneath the car to see if there's oily wetness on the bottom of the bellhousing? An overfilled transmission will allow oil into the bellhousing as the transmission vent is in there. If it was way overfilled, it could have gotten oil on the clutch.

The transmission shop you mentioned is obviously not familiar with a clutch setup in a 6 speed Accord. You absolutely need the special tools to remove and install the pressure plate. The plate will be destroyed if it's just bolted on without using the tools.

Also, the flywheel is NOT resurface-able. It's a dual mass flywheel. It can't be setup in a machine and get a proper finish as the friction surface moves independently of the part that bolts to the crankshaft. If there's heat checks and hard spots, expect a MUCH larger repair bill. It must be replaced.

Yeah from what I understand they will probably just replace the flywheel which costs 500 bucks itself. I spoke with an Acura tech and went for a ride-along. He immediately said by the feel of the clutch that the pressure plate is definitely going, and I will probably end up responsible for the 1800 dollar repair sooner than later.

On a lighter note I had the clutch pedal assembly and bushing repaired for free under warranty so NO MORE CLICKING which makes me happy.

Can't wait to have a solid holding clutch!

Make sure your clutch reservoir is topped off with the appropriate hydraulic brake fluid.

What is a clutch reservoir?

Yeah from what I understand they will probably just replace the flywheel which costs 500 bucks itself. I spoke with an Acura tech and went for a ride-along. He immediately said by the feel of the clutch that the pressure plate is definitely going, and I will probably end up responsible for the 1800 dollar repair sooner than later.

On a lighter note I had the clutch pedal assembly and bushing repaired for free under warranty so NO MORE CLICKING which makes me happy.

Can't wait to have a solid holding clutch!

You may want to find a Honda tech that will do the job on the side. Over the last month I have browsed Honda's on Craigslist. I've found 3 ads by different Honda techs that are selling their vehicles. In the ad they state they are a Honda tech as a selling point. Or you can place a service wanted ad for a Honda tech on CL and possible save some $$$.

Not a bad idea satin, i'll look into it.

I know this thread has dragged on for some time, but this whole time I have been acquiring the money to get this clutch put in and I want to know without a doubt that the money I've put away for the last month should indeed be spent on a new clutch. I suppose I could pay Honda 95 dollars for a thorough inspection instead of just going for a free ride-along, that way they will either find a problem or not find a problem. I heard something about removing a plate on the transmission and if a big hunk of white stuff comes out it's good, but if the white stuff (asbestos?) is black, it's shot. Any elaboration on this would be helpful so I can do the test myself. Thanks a bunch fellaz and ladies!

whitey

have you looked underneath the car to see if there's oily wetness on the bottom of the bellhousing? An overfilled transmission will allow oil into the bellhousing as the transmission vent is in there. If it was way overfilled, it could have gotten oil on the clutch.

The transmission shop you mentioned is obviously not familiar with a clutch setup in a 6 speed Accord. You absolutely need the special tools to remove and install the pressure plate. The plate will be destroyed if it's just bolted on without using the tools.

Also, the flywheel is NOT resurface-able. It's a dual mass flywheel. It can't be setup in a machine and get a proper finish as the friction surface moves independently of the part that bolts to the crankshaft. If there's heat checks and hard spots, expect a MUCH larger repair bill. It must be replaced.


Update:

I took my car to Honda yesterday determined to show them the problem, and I was able to get my clutch to slip by accelerating from 3000-4000 RPMs in second gear. The tech immediately noticed it and said "yah, feels like a slipping clutch". So I left it overnight and got a call this morning. He said that they would get all the parts shipped over and install it, and replace the master cylindar for a grand total of $1610.00. Though I am satisfied with this offer, I asked him if that includes the flywheel and he said "they will machine the flywheel". From everythign I have gathered here, this is not a viable option for this car. So should I be worried that if they DO machine the flywheel, I may have the clutch prematurely wear on me and be back replacing it again after 13000 more miles?

I like to assume that they know what they're doing, but there is a lot more knowledge on here than they probably collectively have at the service center.

/\
How's the 8th gen clutch in traffic? Sounds like it's pretty easy and not really an issue.

8th gen clutch is beautiful in slow traffic .. when it's bumper to bumper, I can move the car forward by slowly releasing the clutch until it grabs .. then I just push it in and the car slows to a stop on its own

Will a J30A4 6MT keep up with Hondas new 3.5 V6 coupe if it has a fresh clutch and oil change?

What kind of driving patterns should I follow in order to successfully break in the new clutch so that it lasts a long time and has good grip? Thanks DA.

Will a J30A4 6MT keep up with Hondas new 3.5 V6 coupe if it has a fresh clutch and oil change?

What kind of driving patterns should I follow in order to successfully break in the new clutch so that it lasts a long time and has good grip? Thanks DA.

They'd be close, the 8th gen 6 speed has more power, but also more weight, plus larger and heavier wheels and tires.

During the first 500-1000 miles, no excessive slippage, no hole shots, that's about it.
These cars are NOT made for drag racing, if you intend to street race the thing, you'll be putting alot more than clutches in it on a regular basis.

They'd be close, the 8th gen 6 speed has more power, but also more weight, plus larger and heavier wheels and tires.

During the first 500-1000 miles, no excessive slippage, no hole shots, that's about it.
These cars are NOT made for drag racing, if you intend to street race the thing, you'll be putting alot more than clutches in it on a regular basis.

Thank you for the advice. I certainly do not intend to street race my car. It is my daily driver and I wish for it to last a long time however I will occasionally test its acceleration capabilities for what it is worth.

Honda called me today and informed me that they WERE able to successfully machine the hotspots from my flywheel and that I will not have to pay 680 bucks for a new one which I am incredibely thankful for. I hope it works as well as a new one would.

Will a successfully machined flywheel last as long as a brand new flywheel?

If the machine shop that did the machining on the flywheel successfully, you shouldn't see any problems.

I'm sure the dealership didn't do that themselves, I doubt they'd have the machine necessary to do that sort of work.

I'd sure like to know how they got the friction surface to not move independently of the outer flywheel during the machining process.

I don't really know the dynamics of the flywheel, but apparently they were successful. I can't wait to get my car back and I will keep you all posted.

Just a side question, why is this flywheel so much different from others? Why must it be replaced usually and not able to be machined? Just curious. Obviously it's not IMPOSSIBLE to be machined if they were successful. Is it just very difficult?

The tolerance limits are most likely very small, so if you need to take a lot of meat off, it might put it below spec for thickness.

I don't really know the dynamics of the flywheel, but apparently they were successful. I can't wait to get my car back and I will keep you all posted.

Just a side question, why is this flywheel so much different from others? Why must it be replaced usually and not able to be machined? Just curious. Obviously it's not IMPOSSIBLE to be machined if they were successful. Is it just very difficult?

Dual mass flywheels are extremely difficult to machine properly when they are assembled. Usually they have to be taken apart to be machined.

Picture 2 parts, held together as an outer section (flywheel with starter ring gear) and an inner section that the pressure plate bolts to and the clutch disc rides on. The inner part also bolts to the crankshaft.

It's usually held together either by a large bearing in the center that's pressed in or bolted together through a flange with a bearing in the center isolating it from the outer part.

Between the two parts are springs and sometimes weights, all to reduce transmission gear train noise. The outer part if you can access it through the bellhousing will move independently of the inner, usually not too much, but it will move.

When machining, the friction surface will not stay steady during machining in relation to the outer part, making a smooth cut very difficult.

btw, that's the rattle you hear on shutdown of the engine as it slows to a stop, the flywheel halves rocking on the springs.

Many cars use them.
I've attached a generic image of a dual mass flywheel.

very interesting. Thank you for the cut-away of the dual mass flywheel--I had no idea it was such a complex part. No wonder they wanted to charge me close to 700 for a new one, and thank God they were able to machine it enough that it will work properly. I'm getting my car back today after class and I can't wait! I pray this is the last time I have to have a clutch done in this Accord, and with the way I drive this one should last a good long time. Thanks for all of your help, and I hope this thread helps somebody else down the road who might encounter similar problems.

On a side note, my clutch was "down to the rivets" which I assume means it was almost bare. However the tech told me I could have driven it a couple thousand more miles before I reached the "rats nest" and my car was on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck. My advice to anybody in this situation is to, if you honestly can do it, drive the car as light as possible for as long as possible until you get the clutch done. The more slippage that occurs, the more messed up your flywheel will get, and you might not be as fortunate as me when they open up the tranny. The day I decided to take my car in was the day that my clutch slipped while cruising at 65MPH and pushing the accelerator down 10%. At that point I had had enough.

GL and thanks again everybody

DK

[QUOTE=Fredsvt;292521]Dual mass flywheels are extremely difficult to machine properly when they are assembled. Usually they have to be taken apart to be machined.


......great info......Fred.

I'd be interested in your take about using GM SychroMesh Friction Modified manual transmission fluid to address the random less the perfect 3rd gear shift problem (prior to considering Honda Accord TSB 08-020 of April 12, 2008............)

best, ez....

Many cars use them.

Including the '06 VW Jetta that I had....the VW Jetta DMFs during the '06 model year were notorious for exploding and knocking holes through the transmission's bell housing. This ****s because if you have the DSG transmission it costs $8K+ to replace.

-Wes

That is very costly indeed. My '04 SVT Focus was taken into the shop and the clutch and flywheel were replaced entirely to avoid any problems. They did it for me under warranty though since there was a TSB on the issue. The new clutch felt lighter and much faster.

PS Honda just called me to come pick up my car..just have to wait for my friend to wake up and take me which could be a while with a wicked hangover.

Ahh to be a starving student and sleep until 2pm again.... I miss those days!!!! :D

Let us know how it worked out, be good to see this thread close on a high note!!! :thmsup:

Picked up my car yesterday and it feels 100% better. The clutch pedal is much lighter, and the grabbing point is halfway down. It will take me a little while to get used to it and I have stalled probably 4 times on hills because of this. I am taking it very easy on the clutch though for the first 500 miles. I won't punch it much because I want the parts to settle. It feels more torquey than it did before and NO SLIPPAGE. They also took care of the master cylindar and it shifts much smoother than it did before. The squeek is gone from fork also. The hood was slightly higher on one side, which I figured was from being removed, but they adjusted the rubber bumpstops and now it sits flush, as does the trunk. The only thing keeping my car from being perfect are the tiny dent in the edge of the door and a little rash on a couple of the wheels. Final price? $1,609.52. Thanks again everybody.

PS I'm a starving senior now! So close..so close.

It's been a little while since I posted in this thread, but my accord is finally driving like a brand new car. With a good 6 trips to the dealership, I was able to have them fix it in its entirety. I spent 1600 dollars having the clutch replaced and the flywheel resurfaced, and the slave cylindar replaced. After I got the car back, I noticed that the clutch pedal still clicked when being unpressed, so I took the car back again and said "fix it". The dealership took it in back for about a half an hour and brought it back out with one bolt from the clutch "lubed". It felt perfect for the first day, but the clicking came back just a day later, and it started to display an entirely new problem. When I let the clutch up, it made a groaning noise almost every time. At this point I just wanted this thing fixed, so I showed up at Honda again and talked to my service rep who took the car straight back. A couple of hours later, the car was done. They replaced the master cylindar under my 12000 mile/12 month purchase warranty and now the clutch is flawless. They also put me in contact with a leather specialist who was able to fix the 1.5 inch crack in my seat, seal the rest of the leather, and refinish it to its original condition. My armrest, and all my seats look as though they are brand new and they don't feel "shiny and smooth" to the touch--more of a "soft and rough" to the touch finish. Anyways, the leather repair cost me 165.00 and the master cylindar was free. All in all, it was the best 1700 bucks I could ever spend on my accord. Hope you all enjoyed!

Glad that worked out for you. My "clutch woe" is that I have a torque converter instead of a clutch. <sigh>

.....if I understand correctly, the clutch pedal 'click' (upon upstroke engagement) is a master cylinder thing..............

............wonder if the dealer folks would considering replacing this under my Honda Care Extended Warranty? Or would they considered this a "chickenshirt" complaint (as the 'click' is actually very faint).....

Hang in there,

best, ez....

EZ,

The pedal "click" is gone now and replaced with a buttery smooth clutch pedal that makes no noise. I hope it lasts! The dealership covered the master cylindar replacement under my 12 month 12K mile warranty when I purchased the car. I don't have "honda care" anymore because I think it's pointless. The car has a 100K warranty anyways.

Succinct,

You have a torque converter instead of a clutch? I don't follow..that's cool though. I should have had them install one while my trannie was off.

Succinct,

You have a torque converter instead of a clutch? I don't follow..that's cool though. I should have had them install one while my trannie was off.

Yeah I have the 5AT, but wish I had the 6MT with my AV6. I am 46, and it's the first automatic I've had to live with since the '72 Mercury Cougar I had in high school. It's a great car, but slushboxes are just SO clueless....

Succinct,

I can think of worse automatic cars to live with...Enjoy that 5AT and the resale value some day!

Also, blatant stupidity on my part by confusing "torque converter" with "limited slip diff":banana:

cheers

It sounds like it might almost be time for a new clutch if its engaging high in the pedal travel and there are some slight signs of slippage. A hydraulic clutch will matain pedal effort and feel but the clutch engagement point can change.

The previous owner may have had a heavy clutch foot. Either they consistently slipped it too much while shifting or kept their foot on the clutch while they were driving. 70K is early for clutch replacement relatively speaking but its not unheard of.

Overall, everything sounds normal with your car . . . as far as the characteristics of a worn clutch go. Otherwise, mechanically everything seems to be operating as designed. Keep paying attention to it. Make sure your clutch reservoir is topped off with the appropriate hydraulic brake fluid.

I thought the accord 7th gen had a mechanism that automatically adjusted as the clutch got used, so that the engagement point never changed?