My CPO dilemma - be careful!

Last month I picked up a CPO 2004 Honda Accord LX, 5MT for $14.5K. The Carfax indicated an accident back in 11/07 in upstate NY. I can tell that the front bumper cover and left headlamp were replaced. Under the hood, I did not see any damage to the radiator or engine, all original, so it appears to be superficial. Airbags were not deployed.

Later that week, I popped open the trunk and seen grease pen markings on the underside of it. I check the trunk lid's VIN sticker and it did not match my VIN. Immediately red flags start waiving. So I decided to do some of my own investigation. Needless to say I got hold of the accident report and repair order from the body shop. The car was rear-ended by a full size Dodge Ram which pushed it into a vehicle in front of it. $9600 worth of damage, including some rear frame straightening. On top of that the AC didn't work and the rear door wouldn't open from the inside (was not the child lock, I checked).

Well, my dealer did right and bought back the Accord. They put me in another 04 Accord LX 5AT with less miles at no additional cost to me (besides reg fees).

BUT...the only shady thing the dealer did was re-list the returned Accord for sale again as CPO. When I called Honda to complain, they quickly removed the listing off of Honda's CPO section and the dealers website. So be careful out there, even with CPO! :thmsup:

jezz...

I'm glad your dealership fixed the problem. I'm not sure why they would CPO any car that had that much damage.

Thanks for calling Honda and getting this car out of the CPO program....

I would never pay extra for the CPO program...as I know I have better eyes than the dealer.

Glad it worked out for you and glad you got that dealer in hot water....crooks.

Maybe you can report them to your state's attorneys general or something because someone's gonna think there's nothing wrong with the car (CPO's are suppose to be accident-free) and buy it. Chances are they won't bother doing a thorough check like you did and they'll be screwed.

What dealer is this and do you have the VIN #? I'll report them if you want. That's just not right.

I already reported the incident to Honda. That Accord is still sitting on their back lot, over a month later. I'm assuming they are waiting for the title.

The VIN for the damaged Accord was 1HGCM55374A078620.

I'm glad they at least got you into a good car with less miles. Originally they probably just knew what the Carfax said, and not the extent of the other damage. But, the fact the door wouldn't open--wow--they should have noticed that. So much for the guy in a labcoat doing the gazzillion-point inspection Honda advertises for CPOs.

Putting it back on the lot for sale is a just plain unreal.

I'm glad they at least got you into a good car with less miles. Originally they probably just knew what the Carfax said, and not the extent of the other damage. But, the fact the door wouldn't open--wow--they should have noticed that. So much for the guy in a labcoat doing the gazzillion-point inspection Honda advertises for CPOs.

Putting it back on the lot for sale is a just plain unreal.

As far as I am concerned, CPO means nothing (and your post proves it). If it's "certified" and put up on a rack for an oil change, brake inspection, etc. how could one NOT NOTICE the body work and frame work?

Used cars...it's buyer beware!!!!

Dealers are just outright sleazy......

Yup. Dealers are sleazy, but not all of them are. Maybe the OP should post the name of this dealer so people here can avoid them... just in case?

As far as I am concerned, CPO means nothing (and your post proves it). If it's "certified" and put up on a rack for an oil change, brake inspection, etc. how could one NOT NOTICE the body work and frame work?

Used cars...it's buyer beware!!!!

Dealers are just outright sleazy......

Yep, as far as I'm concerned, CPO is just a reason to try and charge you a couple grand over retail. A $1200 extended warranty will accomplish the same thing.

Yup. Dealers are sleazy, but not all of them are. Maybe the OP should post the name of this dealer so people here can avoid them... just in case?

I won't say the dealers name, but I live in Manchester, CT. Not to mention, this dealer has earned Honda's prestigious "President's Award" eight times.

I won't say the dealers name, but I live in Manchester, CT. Not to mention, this dealer has earned Honda's prestigious "President's Award" eight times.

CPOs-President's awards...etc, etc. etc. etc.

MEANS NOTHING.

They bribe people with a few oil changes to put down high satisfaction numbers on those surveys.

This is why forums like these are good. You ask around where to go and people share experiences.

It reminds me of the time I looked at a compact Chevy truck used. I had my check book in hand. Asked them to put it on a rack so I could look at it. They complied and my inspection found 4 leaky shocks (not a big deal by themselves) and then a leaky rear main oil seal for the motor. A big repair. I said no thanks to the truck. Then watched the salesman drive it back to the used car lot. And this was a Southern California Chevy/GMC dealer that has been in business since the early 1900s. Go figure!!!

Before I bought my car I found an 07 Accord Ex Sedan on Honda's certified pre-owned link on the Honda website with 15,555 miles for $19,995 and ran a free Carfax on it from Honda's website. It had been in an accident.

Here is the accident info:

02/06/2008 Indiana
Police Report Accident reported
in Marion County
Involving right front impact
with another motor vehicle
Damage reported to:
Front of vehicle
Right side of vehicle
Rear of vehicle

These "CPO" vehicles don't give me the greatest warm and fuzzy now.

I've heard complaints that Carfax isn't as reliable as some might thing and how they sometimes don't disclose the complete history of the car or leave out some details. Is there a better alternative out there?

In the near future I plan on purchasing my mom a certified preowned Accord and I certainly don't want to be caught in a situation like this.

For what it's worth the carfax report on my car seemed complet. It had the date the care was available for sale (new), the date of the services, the date it got turned in from lease (if you can, buy a leased car, they are taken much better car of) and when the vehicle got put out as a Honda CPO.

Bear in mind also that the 100k warranty does not cover things like the oxygen sensor and other emi$$ions equipment.

Bwahhahha, now this Accord is back in NY at Mohawk Honda!

http://www.mohawkhonda.com/preowned/dsp_viewcar.cfm?vin=1HGCM55374A078620

I'm glad you reported your problem to Honda, but unfortunately I doubt much will be done about it. I believe the business model for Honda, and many other manufacturers, is that they offer CPO programs as a manufacturer's warranty, but of course rely on their network of dealers to actually run the program. So, in effect, dealers, who are independent businesses, sell the warranty, and make a margin - probably near 40%. Then, when there is work to be done, they make a little more as they perform the work. Honda pays the dealer to perform the warranty work, albeit at a lower work rate than normal labor you and I would pay. So, the program involves a lot of trust from Honda to the dealers. And some dealers will cheat - certifying cars like the one you mentioned into the CPO program on behalf of Honda. And essentially they will likley get away with it, because Honda simply doesn't have the bandwidth to supervise and inspect all the cars certified. And even if they are caught - an "oops" explanation will probably work. As long as the dealers have a financial incentive in putting more cars into the program, the onus remains on the buyer to be ever wary and do the best inspection possible before purchase.

This isn't unique to Honda - I bought a Mercedes via a CPO program, at a dealer 40 miles away. I then serviced it at my local dealer. 8 days after purchase, I had an oil leak that required the head gasket to be changed. The mechanic said it had been leaking for at least a year by how dirty it was (I had driven less than 200 miles since purchase). They found other issues as well, and for that first service visit - Mercedes paid over $4000 in warranty repairs. It got worse, and over the course of a year, they paid another $5000 in various warranty fixes, some of which were related to an undisclosed and improperly repaired accident by the previous owner, just as you experienced. I ended up selling the car just before the CPO warranty expired to buy my current Honda. Because the original dealer was a high volume dealer, the Mercedes area manager didn't feel it was worth looking into, and just kept authorizing the warranty work.

I bought my AV6 as a CPO with 14k miles, but before buying I noticed that the bolts underneath the front nose/bumper had body-colored paint on them. THe dealer let me take the car to an independent body shop friend. He looked it all over in bright sunlight and his assessment was that they repainted the front nose. I questioned why that was necessary at only 14k miles, and he stated that dealers often repaint front noses to get rid of rock chips, etc.

So I was able to buy with confidence at now that I am at 41K, I think it's safe to say the car was a good purchase, and the only thing that "broke" was a battery that died and Honda replaced.

But the point is to be aware - CPO doesn't mean no body damage ever occurred! :paranoid:

Golftango, you don't know me and I don't know you, but let me say that you are the kind of bad-ass mf'er that we need more of these days. :thmsup:
Well done keeping at least one dealership honest, and reporting the issue to Honda. If only the car was currently being sold as what it is...
I guess someone will unfortunately buy the car as a CPO, but like the saying goes, 'a fool and his money...'

For what it's worth the carfax report on my car seemed complet. It had the date the care was available for sale (new), the date of the services, the date it got turned in from lease (if you can, buy a leased car, they are taken much better car of) and when the vehicle got put out as a Honda CPO.

I tend to feel the opposite about leased cars. They're essentially extended rental cars. People know they are going to get rid of them within a few years and don't have to worry about maintaining their value, so why put money into maintenance and upkeep? As Ronald Reagan once said, "Nobody ever washed a rental car."

When I was looking for my car I checked out the local Honda Dealer's used lot. Those salesmen were trained to swear by CPO, yet couldn't seem to really explain the benefits. The guy even told me not to buy the S60 they had from him because it was worth it to have it certified from Volvo.