I talked to a Honda sales rep today and he told me the s2000 is going away and they are going to build another Prelude.
Anyone else heard anything on this??

I1:)

i've read various rumors about a possible prelude come-back....

don't think i've seen anything on the s2000 dissappearing though! :eek:

Wow. Hadn't heard that one.

I hope they keep the S2000 - I like!

I had heard that both the S2000 AND the NSX are going away and that they are going to concentrate on the money makers - aka trucks/SUV.

At Honda school they discussed some of the upcoming changes for the NSX, so it didn't sound like it was going away soon.

The S2000 has been such a dud that nothing would surprise me!

It's very possible they will dicontinue the S2000 for a year or so and then release the S2200.

Originally posted by Wardsweb
the S2200.


I like, I like.

Originally posted by princess
The S2000 has been such a dud that nothing would surprise me!


I always thought the S2000 had a loyal following. :confused:

I don't know how it sold, but I thought it did well enough in its segment? :confused:

Honda: If you do pull the S2000 (and even if you don't), please put that engine in the Accord. Call it the Accord Type-S or something. I really would like to see a little more pep available with the Accord's I4 engine - even as an option.

The disappointing part was the performance.... it just wasn't as peppy as it should've been. It could've been so much better with the technology they have!

They pretty much sold what they made, but they did keep production limited.

I honestly don't know if they're going to stop making it or just update the name or what. I don't think they'll go back to a prelude though.... not with things being offered in the Accord coupe that the sedans cant get! Would be redundant, right?!

The Prelude had a more loyal following than the S2000 from what I've seen over the years....

S2000 = longitudinal engine RWD
Accord = transverse engine FWD

F22C in Accord = no go.

i would still like to see a high performance, high revving 4 cyl accord though. The K24 has lots of potential. if Honda really wanted to, they could pump over 240 hp out of the TSX's motor without forced induction, and produce more torque than the F22C. or they could stoke out the RSX-S K20Z into a 2.2L and have more revs, with slightly less torque.

The F20 in the S2000 has been mounted transversely in other applications IIRC. If I'm not mistaken, it was used in a sport model of the Accord in Japan, not sure if it was the Type-R or the Euro-R.

the S2000's F20C has never been used by Honda in any other car. Honda has had a F-series engine, but those were SOHC, and can be found in pre-7th gen Accords. i think Japan had a F20A in an Accord 2.0Si at some point. however, these F-series engines are completely unrelated to the S2K's F20C. the F20C has DOHC VTEC and it spins clockwise, as opposed to SOHC and counterclockwise rotation for the F-series. i dont know why Honda called the S2K's engine F20C when its completely unrelated to the F-series.

older Accord Euro R (TypeR) and SiR's used an H22 engine.

There is a JDM Accord with an F20B DOHC VTEC 200HP. Whether it's the Euro-R or SiR-T or both, I don't know. I've seen both online.

F20C1 S2000 00+ H.P. 240 Torque 153 Comp ratio 11.6:1 Bore 87 Stroke 84 DOHC VTEC

F20B Accord SiR-T 98-02 H.P. 197 Torque 144 Comp ratio 11.0:1 Bore 85 Stroke 88 DOHC VTEC JDM only

F20A1 Accord 2.0i Si 90-93 H.P. 150 137 9.5:1 85 88 DOHC JDM

F22B Prelude Si 92-96 H.P. 160 148 9.2:1 85 95 DOHC JDM


I1:)

F20C1 is the power house of the F series

I1:)

Originally posted by princess
The disappointing part was the performance.... it just wasn't as peppy as it should've been. It could've been so much better with the technology they have!

You have no idea what you're talking about. The S2000 can out accelerate a 300hp Nissan 350Z and a BMW Z4 3.0i roadster, etc, etc. The S2000 does 0-60mph in 5.4 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 13.9 seconds @ 100.2 mph. Road and Track - Best All Around Sports Car (http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0503_best_sports_car_data_panel.pdf) The S2000 also competes in the "A-Stock" category of SCCA's Solo 2 races and regularly wins. A-Stock includes cars like Corvette ZR-1, Porsche 911 & Boxster, BMW M3 & M5, Shelby Cobra, Toyota Supra, and even the Acura NSX. I think they're doing pretty damn good with "the technology they have!"

Originally posted by princess
They pretty much sold what they made, but they did keep production limited.

This is a calculated move by Honda to keep the hand-built S2000 exclusive. And they "pretty much" keep selling each S2000 for sticker. Dealers want as many as Honda will send them because they generally sell before they hit the showroom floor.

Originally posted by princess
I honestly don't know if they're going to stop making it or just update the name or what.

Honda is very happy with the S2000 and continues R & D on the car for future updates.

Originally posted by princess
The Prelude had a more loyal following than the S2000 from what I've seen over the years....

The percentage of one owner S2000's is very high...well over 50%. Considering the S2000 is only 5 years old and limited production you can't base your opinion on sales numbers and repeat buyers. It still sells for sticker price...the prelude went bye-bye.

Nothing personal, your post is just way off. It's misunderstandings like this that lead to the occasional, "but it's a Honda" comment from people who are clueless about how good Honda really is. Sorry.

Welcome to the forum Mulliwaxer ,

You can pull up different reports to support your claim..
2003 C&D stats Z4 3.0i 0-60 5.4 1/4 14.2sec 98 mph
S2000 0-60 6.3 1/4 14.9 sec 95mph
Z06 0-60 4.5 1/4 12.8 sec 114 mph
I don't put much weight in MT R & T or C&D findings.

SCCA solo 2 races are basically time trials for people that don't want to scratch up their pretty cars and I believe the Corvettes dominated that class in 04? Am I correct ?

And the Quote on their R&D , DO YOU work for Honda if so please share more.

My local dealer has 3 s2000's used and new sitting on his lot as of last week and there was not a line of people out the door waiting to buy???
I know its winter here so your not going to sell a lot but maybe where your at its a different story.:dunno:

The thing with the S2000 is one time owners thats correct....
most people I have met that own or lease lets say 50% either love em or hate them. Terrible cars in snow and rain... Now in California that maybe a different story but most owners keep them in garage and drive on nice days. They drive their Accord every other day.

Heck the Ody sold for sticker price more years than the S2000 has been built.

So before you step in and start telling others they don't know what they are talking about you need to get ALL the facts and support your claims.

I1:) :)

i know the dealership i bought my accord at has had the same s2000 sitting on the showroom floor since atleast last june... i was talking to a salesguy about it last time i was there. another salesguy was actually talking to a potential buyer for it, but guess what? that guy was actually moving to florida and figured he could get a better deal on the car here in late fall/early winter.... ;)

they usually end up shipping them off to areas where the car is in much higher demand. typically the ones they get for their show room end up heading south, usually to florida.

it's not a hot selling car in an area with 4 seasons! although there are plenty of people around here who would love one if they had the money for a 2nd car that would spend 3/4's of the year in a garage! :D

I USED to want a S2000 until my prince had to drive them at work.... HE was disapointed in the performance, as was the dealer's owner's wife that got the very first one.

I don't know the numbers, I admit. I do know that the techs that work on them aren't impressed. They didn't live up to their hype. But few cars do.

Yes, the sales have been calculated. I think most car companies do that with some of their models. Even the Accord coupe V6 MT is limited....

Unless, by some odd coincidence I've managed to run across S2000 drivers that just didn't know how to use the car they had.... I've (more than once now) been beside them while they were revving as if to challenge....& left them behind me. They MAY have a better top end, but out of the hole they're not much to contend with. I've had a better challenge from Civics!

Anyway, it's all opinion & mine is that they're a disappointment. They ARE cute!:)

Welcome to the forum.....

I value ALL opinions, if we all agreed, life would be boring.

If you've done any lurking, then you'd see I'm a strong supporter of Honda products!
:D

Welcome Mulliwaxer. Thanks for joining in with the DriveAccord folks. You will find some very active members here and a general easy going atmosphere.

Now, if I may make a suggestion. While your post was informative, I would try to be a little less aggressive on people's views. In this instance, a "it is my understanding" or "I believe" and then state your facts, rather than starting with "You have no idea what you're talking about." I myself have, on more than one occasion, been corrected for a comment that I thought was correct. Only to find out I didn't have all the data to draw my conclusion.

very well said, wards....... :yes: :)

Actually, if you go by the 5-60MPH time, which is more representative of the real life times that you might get, it's 7.6 seconds and it is realllly slow. Yes it's true, this was the old 2.0L engine, but I doubt the new 2.2L is so much faster. Either way, the 0-60 time of 6.3 seconds (which I confirmed accurate on C&D) is eclipsed by the Accord EX V6 MT coupe (0-60 in 5.9 seconds) and is matched by the old 200 horse RSX Type-S (0-60 in 6.3). The new RSX Type-S with 210HP will probably leave it in the dust.

Furthermore, the 0-60 time of 6.3 seconds was tested on the same track on the same day and by the same driver as a 350Z was tested on, and it was slower. So don't argue that it can outaccelerate it, clearly it can't.

i just googled and CD clocked the 2.2L at 6.9 seconds for 5-60. TOV dyno'ed the 2.2L with over 240 whp, when its rated at 240 bhp, so Honda may have underrated this motor.

i think the S2k would benefit from a K-series engine with i-VTEC to produce more low end torque. i'm sure Honda could build a K22 engine with a 8000+ RPM redline...maybe even an IMA setup to produce even more off the line torque? ok, wake me up from my dream now...:blah:

Either way, the 0-60 time of 6.3 seconds (which I confirmed accurate on C&D) is eclipsed by the Accord EX V6 MT coupe (0-60 in 5.9 seconds)

Which gives me a great idea. How about stuffing the v-6 in there!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

There you go!:D

I follow the car mags pretty close and have seen nothing about the return of the Prelude.

Originally posted by Wardsweb
Welcome Mulliwaxer. Thanks for joining in with the DriveAccord folks. You will find some very active members here and a general easy going atmosphere.

Now, if I may make a suggestion. While your post was informative, I would try to be a little less aggressive on people's views. In this instance, a "it is my understanding" or "I believe" and then state your facts, rather than starting with "You have no idea what you're talking about." I myself have, on more than one occasion, been corrected for a comment that I thought was correct. Only to find out I didn't have all the data to draw my conclusion.

Wards, I agree with Stiller Fan, that was very well said.

Yes! according to Honda R&D rep I talked to this afternoon, they have 2 engineering samples in the US right now for testing purposes. One we receive this afternoon from Japan but could not see it since it is in a big wooden crate. This one is going to Arizona & the other one is in LAX as of a month ago. I ask about the next generation Accord, He said by next year they will have a sample shipped but not sure. I asked about the squeaks & rattles in my Accord, he just laugh & mubled in japanese:rolleyes: but then he said "car too tight ".

Originally posted by Inspector1
Welcome to the forum Mulliwaxer ,

You can pull up different reports to support your claim..
2003 C&D stats Z4 3.0i 0-60 5.4 1/4 14.2sec 98 mph
S2000 0-60 6.3 1/4 14.9 sec 95mph
Z06 0-60 4.5 1/4 12.8 sec 114 mph
I don't put much weight in MT R & T or C&D findings.

SCCA solo 2 races are basically time trials for people that don't want to scratch up their pretty cars and I believe the Corvettes dominated that class in 04? Am I correct ?

Thanks for the welcome :) Please don't take my tone as hostile. I admit I am being blunt and argumentative though. :mad:

Pulling up different reports is not an accurate way to determine how cars compare. Variables in weather, track (grip), driver etc. can give wildly different results for the same automobile. I gave the link I referenced which included all the cars in one test by the same, professional driver, Steve Millen. His credentials as a successful professional race driver are undisputable. That IS an accurate way to compare cars. So C&D, R&T are credible sources for performance numbers comparison when applied correctly.

Corvettes dominated their class, Super Stock (SS) and A-Stock(AS) but S2000's dominated the B-stock class so convincingly they were moved to A-stock and now (in '05) regularly win (didn't say dominate) in A-stock. Corvettes out-number all other cars at these events by 2 to 1 anyway. Besides, I never claimed a S2000 could out-accelerate a Z06. I mentioned that the ZR1 is in the same Solo 2 class (AS) that the S2000 is in now to illustrate its capabilities. S2000's, 00'-03 were formerly in (BS) class and needed to be moved to (AS) because no other car could compete with it. Solo 2 has little to do with all-out acceleration and more to do with handling and car dynamics.

Solo 2 for people who don't want to scratch their pretty cars? You get a few like that but most people who participate in these events do so VERY seriously. Many people will spend around $2,000+ a year on D.O.T race tires to be competitive. I know this first hand. In the classes above the stock class? Don't ask, it's a lot.

So, I have all my facts... Clearly the S2000 is a VERY capable sports car. It's "performance" is far from "disappointing" as princess stated. That's my point and it's a FACT.

Originally posted by princess
I USED to want a S2000 until my prince had to drive them at work.... HE was disappointed in the performance, as was the dealer's owner's wife that got the very first one.

I don't know the numbers, I admit. I do know that the techs that work on them aren't impressed. They didn't live up to their hype. But few cars do.

Yes, the sales have been calculated. I think most car companies do that with some of their models. Even the Accord coupe V6 MT is limited....

Unless, by some odd coincidence I've managed to run across S2000 drivers that just didn't know how to use the car they had.... I've (more than once now) been beside them while they were revving as if to challenge....& left them behind me. They MAY have a better top end, but out of the hole they're not much to contend with. I've had a better challenge from Civics!

Anyway, it's all opinion & mine is that they're a disappointment. They ARE cute!:)

Welcome to the forum.....

I value ALL opinions, if we all agreed, life would be boring.

If you've done any lurking, then you'd see I'm a strong supporter of Honda products!
:D

I have no problem with 'your' opinion of the S2000's performance but, your making a statement inferring that, in general, most people regard the S2000 as disappointing in performance which simply is not true. It's not true as a statement of general public opinion or in terms of performance numbers. Rather, the S2000 has earned considerable respect as a sports car.

Thank you for welcoming me and again, absolutely nothing personal intended....differing opinions do make the conversation more "lively" :)

Originally posted by Wardsweb
Welcome Mulliwaxer. Thanks for joining in with the DriveAccord folks. You will find some very active members here and a general easy going atmosphere.

Now, if I may make a suggestion. While your post was informative, I would try to be a little less aggressive on people's views. In this instance, a "it is my understanding" or "I believe" and then state your facts, rather than starting with "You have no idea what you're talking about." I myself have, on more than one occasion, been corrected for a comment that I thought was correct. Only to find out I didn't have all the data to draw my conclusion.

Sorry, if my comments were a bit pointed and direct while using princess's post. You'll never see me use foul language or make any direct personal attacks.

Thanks for the welcome.

Originally posted by BenjiBoy650
Actually, if you go by the 5-60MPH time, which is more representative of the real life times that you might get, it's 7.6 seconds and it is realllly slow. Yes it's true, this was the old 2.0L engine, but I doubt the new 2.2L is so much faster. Either way, the 0-60 time of 6.3 seconds (which I confirmed accurate on C&D) is eclipsed by the Accord EX V6 MT coupe (0-60 in 5.9 seconds) and is matched by the old 200 horse RSX Type-S (0-60 in 6.3). The new RSX Type-S with 210HP will probably leave it in the dust.

Furthermore, the 0-60 time of 6.3 seconds was tested on the same track on the same day and by the same driver as a 350Z was tested on, and it was slower. So don't argue that it can outaccelerate it, clearly it can't.

Hmmm, I can't find the C&D article you reference where both cars are featured in the same test. Here is mine. http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0503_best_sports_car_data_panel.pdf Driven by Steve Millen, Professional racer with S2000 and 350Z (300hp Anniversary edition). It appears IT CAN and does out-accelerate the 350Z.

And here are a couple videos you can check out. They're from Best Motoring. B.M. is a Japanese car review program that tests both stock and modified cars. Here you'll see the stock S2000 racing other sports cars purchased off showroom floors in Japan. In the first one you'll see the Nissan Skyline G35 race against the S2000. I know the G35 is 300lbs heavier than the 350Z but the S2k dominates it convincingly. I can't find any direct 350Z comparo's to the S2000. The G35 sport coupe has all the go-fast parts (wheels-tires etc.) the 350Z has. The only real diff. is the weight. The other video is the S2000 against other sports cars.

http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/getitem/84/1/aah.avi

http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/getitem/243/1/bm2004rwdbattle.mpg

Originally posted by illiniguy
Either way, the 0-60 time of 6.3 seconds (which I confirmed accurate on C&D) is eclipsed by the Accord EX V6 MT coupe (0-60 in 5.9 seconds)

Which gives me a great idea. How about stuffing the v-6 in there!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


I confirmed this to be accurate in C&D too - S2000 5.5 sec 0-60, 14.0 quarter mile. Kind of pointless because it's in separate tests but as long as we're just throwing numbers around.





Alright, truth be known...I own and race an S2000. I too discounted the performance of this car. I used to own and race a Celica GTS in Solo 2 races. I would also encounter S2000's on the street and think I could take them. Sometimes I could, but with a competent driver it was no comparison. After purchasing and driving the S2000 it is simply mind boggling at how good this car is at carving up a twisty mountain road and competing in SCCA solo 2 racing. Standing on the outside looking in, the S2000 doesn't look like it could do much more than a beefed up Miata. I was WAY wrong. This car is certainly not for everyone. It's small and not practical and to get the 'real' performance from it, it must be revved. But strong acceleration begins at 3500rpm with the 2.2L engine. As VTECaddict said, it has 240 hp (actually 245hp) to the rear wheels. This translates into approx. 265 bhp! I know, here’s the link http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=171514 . I know everybody has their opinions and this is, of course, mine. Just so everybody knows, I love Accords too.

They're worth posting again...these are the same video's posted above showing just how dominant the S2000 really is compared to other sports cars...I wish they were in english but, I have had them translated to me before.

http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/getitem/84/1/aah.avi

http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/getitem/243/1/bm2004rwdbattle.mpg

Thanks for welcoming me to the forum!

Yes this is a New NSX as seen by me today at the Cleveland Auto Show's IX Center...

Was a machine to study a lot, beautiful paint and interior and the lines on the car....so ooo'la la :thumbsup:

WheelBrokerAng

Good follow up post Mulliwaxer and thanks for clarifying your statements in your 1st post..
We are not a bunch of flamers and I think if you go thru some of the forums you will find that to be true..
Welcome aboard and I hope you find a nice niche in our community.

I1:)

I agree with I1, good reply, Mulliwaxer. My opinion about the disappointments come from the techs, not the owners. They could be everything they dreamed of.....

And welcome WheelBrokerAng!

I DO hope Honda hangs on to some sort of "sporty" car no matter what they call it.:D

Originally posted by Inspector1
Good follow up post Mulliwaxer and thanks for clarifying you statements in your 1st post..
We are not a bunch of flamers and I think if you go thru some of the forums you will find that to be true.......

:blah: LOL! I hope you don't think this is my opinion of the forum, because it's not. It's good to see everybody is not "thin skinned" and can discuss a controversial topic. :D

Just so you don't think I'm full of hot air I decided to post a link to the autocross series I race in. It's listed in order of points leader. And yes, Tim Mullinax is me...thus Mulliwaxer (my screen name).

American Auto-X 2005 A-Stock points leaders (http://www.americanauto-x.com/points/pointsView.asp?Year=2005&ClassID=3&ClassName=A%20Stock)

It's amazing that Honda can build a 4cyl. that can compete with big american V8 sports cars on the track.

American Auto-X series, by the way, sets up their courses to favor the American V8's. So, straight line acceleration is a major factor in this series, unlike SCCA autocrosses which begins later this season.

The American Auto-X Series is an autocross organization, organizing a 16 event series every year for 6 years now. The series caters to the "American Iron", so therefore the courses are designed somewhat wider than most autocrosses across the nation. The series founder, Larry Park, loved Corvettes, and really enjoyed making them go faster and faster, and since Corvettes need more room to get that horsepower to the pavement, we will continue in that tradition as long as time will allow.

Cool thanks for the link.......

Heres the SCCA LINK (http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/2003SoloNationals.pdf)
for 2003 Tire rack National Super Stock(vettes) A-stock(vettes) B-stock(S2000) ...
2004 A-stock (http://ww2.scca.com/soloresults.php?ID=13)


I know your a humble guy and would probably not say that car has some factor but DRIVER is a bigger factor..
Congrats on your standings and keep us posted on your season please!!:cool:

I1 :)

Muliwaxer & WheelBrokerAng:
Good conversation!