I just got my C&D mag, and they compared 6 SUVs...and they actually did a little bit of off-roading!

the Hyundai Veracruz Limited AWD
the Chevrolet Traverse LT
the Ford Flex SEL
the Toyota Highlander Sport 4X4
the Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring AWD
and finally the Honda Pilot EX-L 4WD

The results made me laugh...First place went to the Pilot...and last place went to the Hyundai! :yes:

I couldn't find the article on the internet...but I am sure that it will be up in a few days.

The Pilot is a great vehicle, I see no reason why it shouldn't win! The Veracruz seems to be solid but all the reviews have told me it's pretty bland. The thing a lot of people like about the Pilot is how it drives, it's a lot like a car. Not to mention the ingeniously designed interior with storage and seats all over.

Can't wait to read about it.

Out of those CUVs, I would pick the Mazda CX9 over the Pilot. Its stats are pretty close or surpasses the Pilot and it looks better than the Pilot.

looks aren't everything, and won't make the long-term reliability any better.....

i'm not saying that the cx-9 won't be a good vehicle over the long haul, but i would rather go with a proven commodity before a long-term unknown at this point.... :)

that being said, i wish honda would spice up the styling on their lineup a bit.... i think that IMHO, they have a good start with the civic, fit, and accord coupe.... build from there....

I always wondered why the Mazda C.U.V.'s (CX-9 in particular) weren't more popular. Upon observation/perception, they are stylish/modern-looking; on paper, they seem to be capable performers relative & come rather well-equipped when compared to their contemporaries. . .

(admitted non-fan of C.U.V.'s to begin w/, unless they are premium/proven C.C.U.V.'s -> Compact Cross-over Utility Vehicle)

Maybe the Pilot got picked because its looks are holding true to what an SUV is supposed to look like?

I haven't seen the issue, so I don't know if they're looking for the best 'crossover' or SUV, but from the title of this thread, I assume SUV?

Maybe the Pilot got picked because its looks are holding true to what an SUV is supposed to look like?

I haven't seen the issue, so I don't know if they're looking for the best 'crossover' or SUV, but from the title of this thread, I assume SUV?

It was all unibody vehicles...no body on frame, which is why they didn't invite the Frontier. I'm thinking it was more towards the crossovers. :dunno:

I was surprised about the Pilot's off road abilities. I figured it would be a good overall people mover with good use of interior space, but it the article made it sound like it was pretty competent off road. I'm sure it wasn't the Rubicon Trail but good showing none the less . . .

it probably edged out the others with its offroad capability. i mean, its no rock crawler but i can easily see the pilot as being the most capable offroad out of that bunch.

Just read that article also. I was surprised and happy to see the outcome. The CUVs are apparently much more of a slant away from the SUV capabilities so even the light duty offroad stuff quickly bogs them down. I understand the move toward comfort and carlike driveability but it seems you get to a point where you just as well should just buy a sedan/car...the CX-9 doesn't exactly have much user friendly backseat space or cargo area and they all sacrifice mpgs for the lacking aero effects.

It will be interesting to see how the new Pilot's SUV look will hold against the CUV image gaining favor right now.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/past-road-test/midsized-and-large-suvs/overview/midsized-and-large-suvs-ov.htm

3 row SUVs
The Ford Flex and Mazda CX-9 rate among the best but the redesigned Honda Pilot slips

The New Ford Flex and the upgraded Mazda CX-9 (both available to subscribers) now rank among the best 3 row SUVs we’ve tested. They trail only the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, the conventional Highlander, and the Acura MDX in our Ratings (available to subscribers) of midsized models.

The redesigned Honda Pilot (available to subscribers), however, has slipped from being one of our top-rated 3 row SUVs. Although it scored only slightly lower, the Pilot drops back to midpack in our rankings, behind 10 other competitive vehicles.

We tested two large 3 row SUVs in addition to the three midsized vehicles in this group: the redesigned Toyota Sequoia and the new Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid (available to subscribers). The Sequoia outscored all of its direct competitors among large SUVs but is far below the pricier Mercedes-Benz GL450. Even with the best fuel economy in the large SUV class, the Tahoe Hybrid ranks only midpack, slightly better than the conventional Tahoe. The GMC Yukon Hybrid is a virtual twin of the Tahoe Hybrid.

Prices of our midsized 3 row SUVs range from $35,830 for the Pilot to $38,615 for the CX-9. The large SUVs are priced at $54,005 for the Sequoia and $55,585 for the Tahoe Hybrid.

The CX-9, Pilot, and Sequoia are the only vehicles in this group that are recommended, thanks to their average or better predicted reliability ratings. The Flex and Tahoe Hybrid are too new for us to have reliability data.

EXPANDED OPTIONS

Three-row SUVs have been popular in recent years. They have seating for up to seven or eight people, so many families now choose them instead of minivans. But the third-row seats in many midsized models have limited space, are cumbersome to access, and are best suited for children. Usually, larger SUVs have roomier third-row seats and extra towing and cargo capacity but are often more expensive to buy and fuel. Overall, minivans still provide the best balance of roominess, manageable size, and fuel economy.

Ford’s new Flex wraps a versatile, cavernous interior in a distinctly boxy styling. It is also lower and more wagon-like than others in this class.

The Mazda CX-9 has improved considerably since we last tested one in 2007, helped by a larger engine and improved braking. It is one of the sportiest SUVs we’ve driven and has a roomy, quiet, well-crafted interior.

The Pilot remains a very practical vehicle with seating for up to eight, slightly improved fuel economy, and a reasonable price. But pronounced road noise, so-so acceleration and braking, and interior quality that’s not as good as the model it replaces cost it points in our testing.

COMING SOON

More models are being released in this rapidly growing 3 row SUVs category. We could not purchase the Chevrolet Traverse, a twin of the GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook, or the Kia Borrego in time for this test, but they will be in a future issue.

With consumers looking for better fuel economy, manufacturers are also bringing more hybrid and diesel SUVs to market as quickly as they can. Hybrid versions of the Chrysler Aspen and Dodge Durango are due early this fall, and the Mercedes-Benz GL320 diesel is on sale now. Diesel versions of the Audi Q7 and BMW X5 are imminent.

And if you're looking for a vehicle that is pretty much the polar opposite of the SUV, check out our review of the Smart ForTwo car.

Posted: October 2008 — Consumer Reports Magazine issue: November 2008

Give and take.

I looked at a CX-9 and if I were two kids lighter it would be a fun alternative. Very nice package inside and out. But the need for the functional 3rd row kicked it out for me. It was just too limited back there. Even our Pilot just makes it for 3rd row access and room...and that's for kids only. Best 3rd row on a nontruck platform I've seen is the GM Lambda by far. But there's a lot of take for that give.

Both Toyota and Honda are guilty of this downward turn in interior materials. The market may not stand for it long term...at least I won't.

The new Camry and Accord have cheaper interiors than their predecessors. So too does the TSX. It's not as if Honda can't do any better...The new TL is beautiful inside.

I'm a healthy/athletic 5'11", and I can fit into the 3rd-row seats of the Pilot w/ relative ease (my sis' has the 1st gen', and some family friends have the new 2nd gen'). Is it comfortable? Not ideal, but doable. IMHO, it's very useful for when having visiting guests as well as already having your own family/comrades/groupies to haul around (as opposed to taking 2 vehicles). I don't think I can do a coast-to-coast trip sitting there, but a town-&-country jaunt: no problem'o! :cool:
The new Camry and Accord have cheaper interiors than their predecessors. So too does the TSX. It's not as if Honda can't do any better...The new TL is beautiful inside.In the future, please add the disclaimer: 'opinion - not fact'... :rolleyes:

Stating one's opinion/insights/ideas/subjective-comments is one thing, but to conclude & deliberate them to be fact & established/proved-truths is just simple fallacy.


FYI... '09 TL plastics/moldings/trim/etc' are of the same manufacturing/fabrication/parts-supplier/material-composition as the '08+ Accord coupe/sedan & '09 TSX. . .

(I had an '08 TSX, '09 TSX, '08 TL, and '09 TL each, for a weekend... courtesy of the local dealer)

It might be more appropriate to list the opinion that the fit and materials are less desirable...to me...in my own opinion...the way I see it...how I roll...my own notion...word to the peeps...in my eyes...from my side of the fence...my view from this side of the urinal :thmsup:

^ nothin' some Gorilla Glue, latex spray-foam, and 3M VHB mounting tape can't fix or rectify! :D

(literally lmfao' @ Bowser's comment above)

^ nothin' some Gorilla Glue, latex spray-foam, and 3M VHB mounting tape can't fix or rectify! :D

(literally lmfao' @ Bowser's comment above)

Yeah...I need to cut down on coffee at the office today...

The more I think about it, the more I take issue with the assembly shortcuts vs the materials. This trend of snap together assemblies I'm sure cuts huge paths into labor costs but it seems to have gone a little far. My 6th gen seems to possess as much of the lego effect that I can tolerate.

My first Honda...84 Hatchback LX...did not drip with luxury materials...you couldn't even get leather at all then. Expecially when I had that thing apart in the garage putting in a full stereo re-do, I was amazed at the engineering and attention to detail that lurked even under the dash...the vacuum lines for the AC controls even had brackets keeping the hoses in a distinct cluster and line up all the way through the firewall. I had metal screws of different sizes all over the place for every piece of that interior. It's what made me such a fan of Honda: attention to detail. Even later with tunes pounding away, the car never gave a hint at loosening itself to a rolling rattle trap. As I've mentioned many times, I was impressed it just did what it was designed to do every day so well.

my view from this side of the urinal :thmsup:

That better be the only view you have :paranoid::biggrin:

That better be the only view you have :paranoid::biggrin:

Count on it!

I love the look of the new Pilot! I think they increased the mileage on them also!

I love the look of the new Pilot! I think they increased the mileage on them also!

Strangely, the looks are less offensive to me than at first. A couple of changes and it's downright close to satisfactory to me.

I wish they would have been able to increase mileage more, but it's really the same. I believe we will see the jump with a diesel to come shortly. Of course with gas prices falling at the moment, be interesting to see the reaction for it. Anyone smart will take a hard look at it as a great option if it performs well. Gas prices...as with the market...will continue to change.

Looks like Consumer Reports thinks otherwise when it comes to where the Pilot should be rated (below the Ford Flex, Hyundai Veracruz, and many others).

Opinions are opinions, but this was a shocker from Consumer Reports (even for me).

Strangely, the looks are less offensive to me than at first. A couple of changes and it's downright close to satisfactory to me.

I wish they would have been able to increase mileage more, but it's really the same. I believe we will see the jump with a diesel to come shortly. Of course with gas prices falling at the moment, be interesting to see the reaction for it. Anyone smart will take a hard look at it as a great option if it performs well. Gas prices...as with the market...will continue to change.

Gas prices always fall before an election.

but the economy usually isn't in the toilet right before....

Looks like Consumer Reports thinks otherwise when it comes to where the Pilot should be rated (below the Ford Flex, Hyundai Veracruz, and many others).

Opinions are opinions, but this was a shocker from Consumer Reports (even for me).How does Consumer Reports generally view Honda/Acura vehicles (other than safety)?

Just curious! :cool:

Not that I know all that much about S.U.V's, but I'd have assumed the Pilot would've been compared to Nissan's Pathfinder (V6 models), Toyota's 4Runner (V6 models), and other mid-size, V6 powered, import S.U.V.'s w/ 3-row seating.

The Veracruz ran head-to-head, toe-to-toe w/ the Lexus RX' a few years ago. The Ford Flex seems like a MPV-like minivan w/ Range Rover styling-cues, to me!

The ratings were 3 Row Midsized SUVs.

1. Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited
2. Toyota Highlander Limited
3. Acura MDX (My fav SUV)
4. Ford Flex SEL
5. Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring
6. GMC Arcadia
7. Saturn Outlook
8. Hyundai Veracruz SE
9. Buick Enclave CXL
10. Ford Taurus X Limited
11. Honda Pilot EX-L
12 Subaru Tribeca Limited
13. Nissan Pathfinder LE V6
14. Ford Exploder Eddie Bauer V8 :D
15. Mercury Mountaineer
16. Ford Exploder V6
17. Mercury Mountaineer V6

Honda Pilot:

Pros: Powertrain, refinement, seats eight, interior room
Cons: Road noise, so-so braking and acceleration, fit and finish, busy center dashboard, intrusive front head restraints

From what I understand, the Pilot used to rule this roost. Consumer reports has heavily favored Honda products for a long time, but the new Pilot has not moved forward like the rest of the pack.


Large SUVs
1. Mercedes-Benz GL 450
2. Toyota Sequioa Limited 5.7
3. Ford Expedition
4. Lincoln Navigator
5. Chevrolet Suburban (5.3) LT3
6. GMC Yukon SLT
7. Nissan Armada
8. Cadillac Escalade
9. Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid
10. GMC Yukon Hybrid
11. Chevrolet Tahoe 5.3
12. GMC Yukon SLT 5.3
13. Chrysler Aspen
14. Dodge Durango

That list of large SUV's reminds me of my E/V wish to convert a late-model Land Cruiser or LX 470 to electric (remove 100's lbs' of skid-plates, the engine & transfer-case, cooling-system, fuel-system/gas-tank, etc')... but the only hindrance is that E/V conversions are generally easier (and more efficient) w/ manual-transmissions! :(

Throw in a late-model Range Rover, even Discovery as well for E/V candidates, into the conversation... though their electronics would be frightening w/ the rate of failure of components/systems!

Throw in a late-model Range Rover, even Discovery as well for E/V candidates, into the conversation... though their electronics would be frightening w/ the rate of failure of components/systems!

No kidding. They don't seem to age very well at all when it comes to the gizmos that make them expensive:paranoid:

If you don't need that silly little third seat, but want something sporty, roomy, versatile, and beautifully executed, the Murano LE AWD is oh so wonderful. I just read the CarDriver comparison test online and it blew away the competition (Hyundai, Ford, Mazda, etc.). I can certainly concur.

I am so impressed with every facet of my new Murano including it's superior cargo versatility over my Accord (to be my daughters next month). I haven't found a single flaw or weakness yet. Well, maybe the cost when I have to replace the tires on the gorgeous 20" wheels when they wear out (haven't even thought about it... and will ignore the issue 'til it rears it's ugly head :))

I drove a lot of X-Overs before deciding on the Murano, and I was surprised how unimpressed I was with some of the big sellers.

If I had to choose a 3 row, it would have been the Highlander Limited. Very nice. Somewhat strange proportions. Fully in the $40Ks when loaded with everything. Just not sporty feeling or car-like enough inside.

Thank God I didn't need a three-row!:thmsup: