Just a quick report in on the handling balance I've experienced in recent wet days on my daily commute along curvy country back roads.

BACKGROUND: Some have said upgrading to the TL-S rear anti-sway bar alone can cause a "snap" oversteer condition, whereas some with both F&R TL-S bars have complained of an undesireable level of understeer. This is why I installed the regular TL front bar about a year ago (upgrade from 25.4 mm, hollow I think, to 27.2mm hollow - the TL-S front bar is 27.2mm solid), along with the 20mm TL-S rear bar (stock size is 13.5mm I think, and the TL rear bar is 17mm). I'm at about 43k miles now. About 10k miles ago I replaced my worn stock Michelins with some excellent Goodyear ResponsEdge tires (stock 215/50-17 size). I still have stock springs and dampers. This past summer I added the 6MT front shock tower brace.

FINDINGS: After horsing my car around on wet cold roads recently I have concluded that at ultimate grip my car's balance is toward very slight understeer. The rear will come out a little bit (oversteer), but then the entire car begins to slide at that same angle (understeer). I tried to induce a "snap oversteer" condition but could not.

CONCLUSION: To me this is probably an ideal handling balance since I do not track or even autocross my car. :banana: Still, I would appreciate a more "tossable" feel. The TL/S bars help a LOT, but they're not a total solution. Maybe the HFP spring/damper kit would get me there, but I am not going that far with it. Maybe the TL-S front bar would flatten me out more without TOO much more oversteer? Then again, with the stupid non-linear 5AT tranny I am saddled with, who am I kidding anyway? For what I spent ($68 on the bars F&R, and $105 on the tower brace), the handling improvement is very worthwhile, IMHO.

Oh well, just wanted to share my findings in case it helps someone out.

In theory, the more (or one would believe) rigid TL-S front bar would actually cause more understeer, but less lean on initial turn-in.

I haven't "horsing" the car too much after the bars since I put the winter tires on about the same time, however I'm liking it so far, I have no intentions to push the car to the limit since I might not be able to catch it if the car (or I) goes over the limit........ :D

I haven't "horsing" the car too much after the bars since I put the winter tires on about the same time, however I'm liking it so far, I have no intentions to push the car to the limit since I might not be able to catch it if the car (or I) go over the limit........ :D

Naturally, my "horsing" was purely for testing purposes. :naughty: Seriously, I don't usually push the limits, but I just felt that in the recent conditions of minimal traction it's be interesting to see what the car would do.

It occurred to me after I wrote my tome above that one nice improvement would be polyurethane bushings. This would mitigate the initial lean, but I don't know by how much. I figure that since the OEM rubber bushings and clamps are a weird shape (compared to most cars'), making urethane replacements would not be easy or cheap.

I think your car leaning towards understeer is two fold. One, you have a sedan. (that's your car in the avatar, right?) Two, your car isn't lowered so the stock alignment settings should be pretty much there.

The handling balance that you have now, is what my HFP 6 speed coupe has now AFTER correcting the rear camber and toe.

These cars have nasty snap oversteer only when lowered as the rear camber goes way to far negative and the toe goes to toe-out causing the contact patch on the rear tires to become too small and too concentrated on the inside edge of the tire.

you have a sedan. (that's your car in the avatar, right?)
Yes it's a sedan. I revised my signature accordingly. Thanks.

So, what's good upgrading the front and rear or only the rear?

V6 5AT is the most front bias of all accords...
I have TL-S 20mm rear sway + neuspeed front tie bar (stock FSB), i also find it has a slight tendency of understeer. So, i just want to stick with stock FSB rather than TL/TL-S FSB!
Overall the understeer has reduced substantially from stock.

Jiraiya_13, what model you have?

I got a 07 Accord Sedan V6 SE 5AT...

You have the exact same model as mine!
go for TL-S 20mm rear sway for the best reduction of understeer... and you will notice the front too soft... then you can a front tie bar or/and TL front sway!

JEEZE, more confusion on this topic. SSSOOOO what can I really, truly, hopefully expect from going with the front TLS Sway Bar (Solid) Rear TLS Sway Bar and the HFP Kit? Already have rear camber kits installed and will install the front adjustable ball joints. I know that everyone says you don't have to put the camber kits on if you are only lowering the car 1" BUT I am doing it to get rid of the famous or infamous Honda drift to the right, without having to shift the subframe. SSSOOO with all this mods done (hopefully) by next week. Will I be like the kid in the Movie Christmas Story who wanted the BB gun and will put my eye out? The stock suspension is too floaty, is crappy in cross winds and inspires no confidence at all.

So, what's good upgrading the front and rear or only the rear?

It's a game of balance. All else being equal, the bigger anti-sway bar will make your car corner flatter at its respective end of the car. In general, fattening the rear bar will increase tendency for oversteer (rear end swings out at the limit in turns) and bigger front bar will increase tendency for understeer (front end plows at the limit).

Unfortunately nothing else is ever equal, and although sway bars increase handling for very little ride penalty, there IS a ride penalty as the bar gets bigger because you are effectively coupling your independent sides together, creating more of a "live axle" effect.

At the end of the day, Honda felt the stock config offered the best compromise in cost, handling, and ride comfort. Most of us on this forum are willing to spend a little more and suffer a little ride penalty to get flatter handling. Fortunately the TL bars are out there as a cheap part-swap solution.

Which combo you choose depends on your tastes. Most racers in fact use adjustable sway bars because they want to fine-tune them to each track & day's conditions. That's why it is so hard to choose how much to upgrade on your daily driver you must live with from here on out.

For many, swapping the TL rear bar (17mm or 20mm) only offers a great upgrade with very little ride and cost penalty, and is very easy to install. But, as mentioned, some people feel the 20mm rear bar can create an unsafe oversteer tendency without some kind of front bar upgrade as well. Then again, some do not....:dunno:

JEEZE, more confusion on this topic. SSSOOOO what can I really, truly, hopefully expect from going with the front TLS Sway Bar (Solid) Rear TLS Sway Bar and the HFP Kit? Already have rear camber kits installed and will install the front adjustable ball joints. I know that everyone says you don't have to put the camber kits on if you are only lowering the car 1" BUT I am doing it to get rid of the famous or infamous Honda drift to the right, without having to shift the subframe. SSSOOO with all this mods done (hopefully) by next week. Will I be like the kid in the Movie Christmas Story who wanted the BB gun and will put my eye out? The stock suspension is too floaty, is crappy in cross winds and inspires no confidence at all.
Well, for persective, you could kill yourself in ANY car you drive foolishly! I think I'd meet my demise much more quickly in a Dodge Viper ACR or Bugatti Veyron than in a Honda Accord V6 with TL-S sway bars, but hey that's just me.

That said, I think with the HFP pkg and with both F&R TLS bars you will be very happy with the results on your 6MT! Just take your time and get used to how it handles differently at the limit of adhesion in controllable, low-traction situations, before you find yourself in trouble on the road.

I would add the HFP to my car, but I need the stock ride height & suspension travel (my commute to work is over rough roads and involves boarding a ferry subject to tidal height changes, one inch lower ride height and I'd likely be bottoming out). I disagree with you re stock supension, at least from a damping perspective - I feel it offers a great ride comfort/firmness compromise. However, I agree with the floaty aspect in anything other than pure straight-ahead situations. There's definitely a settling that has to occur that makes the stock suspension feel a tad awkward, even with TL-S bars. That's what I think your HFP springs/shocks will fix. let us know!

As of now only thing I got is Tein S. Tech springs and Koni Sport struts. as thinking of just getting a TL-S rear sway 20mm.