Axed, along with the v8 :thumbsdow

Honda new product strategy in light of a disastrous 2008 nixes more than just the NSX supercar as previously reported - and Acura is bearing the brunt of the blow. Among the casualties include the rumored V-8, the successor to the Honda S2000, a program to develop rear-wheel drive cars to compete with BMW's, and a convertible based on the CR-Z concept.


While the NSX was an obvious program to be pushed off Honda's plate, Acura's future lineup was a less-expected candidate. Honda was planning to develop rear-wheel drive platforms aimed specifically at competing with BMW's rear-wheel drive 3-series, 5-series and 7-series. Autocar says a potential 7-series fighter was to be the first arrival, in 2015, but all three programs have been halted. Development of the V-8 engine meant to drive these rear-wheel drive cars has also been cancelled, due to Honda engineers' inability to make it cost-effective and fuel efficient.

In addition to Acura's disappearing future products, Honda dropped plans to build a convertible version of the CR-Z concept, and the current Honda S2000 - which is in its last year of production - no longer has a replacement in development. The Honda Accord, which currently has two models - one for the U.S. market and one for the rest of the world - may be reduced to a single model to save in development costs.

Honda will now concentrate on building more hybrids and small cars. It wants to build 500,000 hybrids by 2012, including the new Insight and the hybrid Honda Fit, which is expected to achieve 80 mpg on the European test cycle.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/06/honda-kills-s2000-replacement-v8-program-rwd-acuras/

Has anyone else seen this??

old news!

Only kidding, its a shame, but the S2k never really did take off. I personally dont care much about the v8 program personally.

I think many people could care less about the S2000 cut (the platform is aging). But the RWD Acura and V8 program cuts definitely suck!

Good thing Hyundai has a promising V8 RWD platform :D

Bad for Acura. Very bad...bad enough for the brand to go away if you ask me.

That sucks. I guess I'll be buying a used S2000 in the future.

nooooooo :bawl:

I will miss the S2000. I might have to get another 05. It was the best year!!

I don't see Acura disappearing, though, and it is the Honda company that shows a lot of promise (IF they don't go too overboard w/ their pricing that is, and I think they are just about touching that line right now).

I am not surprised by this at all and moving away from a V8 is a great move IMO. These cheap fuel prices are only temporary and humanity needs to have a greener focus, period. $4.00+ per gallon could last a year plus the next time around, and who would buy and drive a V8 during that time? How much would the vehicle be worth then?

Moving away from RWD is not a bad move IF they focus on something other than FWD. SH-AWD in more of Honda's cars would be a nice compromise IMO.

Only having one Accord, now THAT is dumb! If they would do that and eliminate the coupe, they would need to make one sporty sedan to get me (and many others) even considering an Accord again.

I have to admit that I have been pretty disappointed w/ the direction Honda seems to be going and if this isn't done right, they could easily lose their top spots.

What am i chopped liver? :lmao:

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26293

I guess any prospect of the Acura brand being more than a second tier also-ran are all but gone. They will never be competitive with the tier ones if this is the path they are taking. They have no engines with Direct Injection. They have no sports car. They have no premium luxury sedan. They have no rear wheel drive platform. They have no V8 engines (or even a V6 with low-end torque). They offer zero innovative powertrain or feature advancements. No advanced next generation dual clutch transmissions, let alone any standard torque converter transmission with more than five gears. What is Acura? A luxury package with features that should be available on a Honda?

Watch Audi, that terrible German company with terrible reliablity, continue to make inroads in American market share. I predict Acura as the casualty. They are no Audi. Compared, every engine they offer is direct injection and they offer a full range of world class automobiles recognized for not just beautiful designs, but constant innovation in performance, safety and convinience. It doesn't hurt they aready carry a certain worldwide brand admiration that Acura cannot ever begin to think about touching.

What am i chopped liver? :lmao:

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26293

Threads merged into one under Other Honda Talk.

I like liver and onion, don't have it often though....... :)

The Honda Accord, which currently has two models - one for the U.S. market and one for the rest of the world - may be reduced to a single model to save in development costs.

Hopefully we get the smaller and better looking Euro Accord! :naughty:

Hopefully we get the smaller and better looking Euro Accord! :naughty:

No longer small and definately not better looking

No longer small and definately not better looking

It isn't as good looking as the previous generation, but it does look better than our TSX at least IMO. :yes: (read: no goofy power plenum)

Oh, and it doesn't have the enormous bulging headlight covers...

It isn't as good looking as the previous generation, but it does look better than our TSX at least IMO. :yes: (read: no goofy power plenum)

Oh, and it doesn't have the enormous bulging headlight covers...

Wait, was he comparing it to the tsx or the standard non euro accord...I thought the latter. My bad.

Look at this s2000...led's in the bumper?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/01/tas_2009_001_580.jpg

Personally I'm not shocked or surprised by this move and I don't think it'll be the last cuts Honda makes. They should cut the Pilot, Ridgeline and Odysseyas well.

Get back to what Honda did best, and be the BEST at it.

They should cut the Pilot, Ridgeline and Odyssey[ ]as well...You do realize that the Pilot & Odyssey are amongst Honda's biggest money-makers in terms of per-unit profits? Also, they both are respective class-leaders in terms of units sold. Not to mention that they both are shared platforms w/ numerous other Honda offerings, therefore offsetting development/production costs.

If their sales are languishing, it certainly isn't just them, it's more than likely that whole market segment (mid-size import SUV's & minivans). With that said, the mid-size SUV & minivan niche' aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so why ax' off your golden-goose(s) that lay(s) the most profitable & most number of eggs?

I have no comment about the Ridgeline. It does what it's meant to do, rather well. But, there are other offerings who do some, not all, of the Ridgeline's hallmarks much, much better; these hallmarks being what drives light-truck sales, so to speak. . .

You do realize that the Pilot & Odyssey are amongst Honda's biggest money-makers in terms of per-unit profits? Also, they both are respective class-leaders in terms of units sold. Not to mention that they both are shared platforms w/ numerous other Honda offerings, therefore offsetting development/production costs.

If their sales are languishing, it certainly isn't just them, it's more than likely that whole market segment (mid-size import SUV's & minivans). With that said, the mid-size SUV & minivan niche' aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so why ax' off your golden-goose(s) that lay(s) the most profitable & most number of eggs?

I have no comment about the Ridgeline. It does what it's meant to do, rather well. But, there are other offerings who do some, not all, of the Ridgeline's hallmarks much, much better; these hallmarks being what drives light-truck sales, so to speak. . .

That's the same rationale the Big 3 made, and we all know where that has taken them. I agree Honda jumped on the band wagon to make a killing while Americans bought these BIG gas guzzling vehicles. But do they really make sense any more (aside from folks that actually need a large vehicle). Most folks do not.

That's the same rationale the Big 3 made, and we all know where that has taken them. I agree Honda jumped on the band wagon to make a killing while Americans bought these BIG gas guzzling vehicles. But do they really make sense any more (aside from folks that actually need a large vehicle). Most folks do not.The Big 3 are garbage, top to bottom (ie. exec'/management | unions | product), so there's no validity in your comparo', at least in this discussion regarding product-lineup.

Let me get this straight, you want to ax' 3 models that are perennial sales-leaders or near the top in their respective market-segments, earn more profit per-unit than their other bread-&-butter offerings, and lower the cost for development/tooling/parts-acquisition by platform sharing and other intangible costs & so forth across the board for other ubiquitous models? Uh-huh... :paranoid:

If you don't like a particular model or such, then just admit. We all have our preferences, tastes, and wishes/desires. But don't be so whimsical & assertive in dismissing a few models (namely the Ridgeline, Pilot, and Odyssey) which combined, sold more than 330k units via private sales in '07, and over 265k units via private sales in '08 (a notable ~20% decline over the previous year, but still much better than the blood-letting decline of competitors offering similar models in those very market-segments). Admittedly, bulk of those sales were the Pilot & Odyssey). . .

For reference:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3897/dec08saleschartgn0.gif (http://imageshack.us)



Anywayz... we can agree to disagree! :cool:

The Big 3 are garbage, top to bottom (ie. exec'/management | unions | product), so there's no validity in your comparo', at least in this discussion regarding product-lineup.


Is this a serious statement? Does Honda not have strong unions back in Japan? Garbage? Really? I could just as easily call Honda products garbage based on the multitude of cost cutting they have done with their latest cars. I'm sorry, but the Accord, TSX and Pilot have all seen significant cost cutting quality declines. Gargage? No. But please, I cannot stand for this mentality that Ford, GM, and Chrysler are "garbage". Last time I checked, the new Ford Fusion Hybrid just beat every other midsize offering for fuel economy, including the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Is Honda "garbage" because they have no car to compete? Of course not, but that's how over the top this comment is. I cannot "agree to disagree" with nonsense and falsehoods.

Uhhh'... to reiterate, "The Big 3" are indeed garbage as a whole in terms of being corporations, IMHO. That's my personal & subjective insight. And, this is not even relative to Honda (dunno why everyone who thinks otherwise has to put them [Honda] down to me, thinkin' I'm their biggest fan'boi which couldn't be the furthest from the truth...lolz!). It is what it is, others have their opinion & I have mine. Actually, not much else to it, to be quite honest. . .

The Big 3 are garbage, top to bottom (ie. exec'/management | unions | product), so there's no validity in your comparo', at least in this discussion regarding product-lineup.

Let me get this straight, you want to ax' 3 models that are perennial sales-leaders or near the top in their respective market-segments, earn more profit per-unit than their other bread-&-butter offerings, and lower the cost for development/tooling/parts-acquisition by platform sharing and other intangible costs & so forth across the board for other ubiquitous models? Uh-huh... :paranoid:

If you don't like a particular model or such, then just admit. We all have our preferences, tastes, and wishes/desires. But don't be so whimsical & assertive in dismissing a few models (namely the Ridgeline, Pilot, and Odyssey) which combined, sold more than 330k units via private sales in '07, and over 265k units via private sales in '08 (a notable ~20% decline over the previous year, but still much better than the blood-letting decline of competitors offering similar models in those very market-segments). Admittedly, bulk of those sales were the Pilot & Odyssey). . .

For reference:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3897/dec08saleschartgn0.gif (http://imageshack.us)



Anywayz... we can agree to disagree! :cool:

I didn't say I "disliked" they vehicles, so don't put words into my mouth. it's very flattering. I asked a legitimate question which you feel no one has a right to ask. That's not very friendly or useful.

I guess any prospect of the Acura brand being more than a second tier also-ran are all but gone. They will never be competitive with the tier ones if this is the path they are taking. They have no engines with Direct Injection. They have no sports car. They have no premium luxury sedan. They have no rear wheel drive platform. They have no V8 engines (or even a V6 with low-end torque). They offer zero innovative powertrain or feature advancements. No advanced next generation dual clutch transmissions, let alone any standard torque converter transmission with more than five gears. What is Acura? A luxury package with features that should be available on a Honda?

You and I have sparred a few times on this site, but I have to give you props on your analysis. I was looking to Acura when I replace my 7th Gen, but why bother? Now I am looking at BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Hyundai. Even that new Mazda 6 looks intriguing........

Watch Audi, that terrible German company with terrible reliablity, continue to make inroads in American market share. I predict Acura as the casualty. They are no Audi. Compared, every engine they offer is direct injection and they offer a full range of world class automobiles recognized for not just beautiful designs, but constant innovation in performance, safety and convinience. It doesn't hurt they aready carry a certain worldwide brand admiration that Acura cannot ever begin to think about touching.

Maybe the takeover of VW by Porsche will lead to better reliability. The only two knocks on Audi are high maintenance costs and average reliability. If they can fix either one they will make a big move in sales............. As far as interiors go, Audi is hard to beat. As far as driveability goes, BMW is hard to beat. The only thing Honda has to compete right now is reliability, as far as I can see.

if they took all the Acura goodies and put them as option packages on the Accord, including SH-AWD, you would have something.........:yes:

Personally I'm not shocked or surprised by this move and I don't think it'll be the last cuts Honda makes. They should cut the Pilot, Ridgeline and Odysseyas well.

Get back to what Honda did best, and be the BEST at it.I think Ody is the number one selling minivan these days, or close.........:thmsup:

I didn't say I "disliked" they vehicles, so don't put words into my mouth. it's very flattering. I asked a legitimate question which you feel no one has a right to ask. That's not very friendly or useful.

Stop fighting......:lmao:

Anyway, I read some online article pointing out that HONDA had a 35% decrease in December sales, which was MORE than GM's 31%.

Conveniently, they "forgot" to post that Honda's sales were only down 8.2% for the YEAR. If the Big Three could say that, they wouldn't be panhandling for billions in the halls of Congress........:yes:

I think Honda needs a sports model other than the Civic SI. Some of us don't fit in that size car........:)

Before Acura came out in 86, Honda had a lot of cool sporty stuff on their Accords............Acura became the extension of that........

S2000 goes away...that's just a shame to me.
CRZ convertible...well, would have been cool, frankly.
Accord Coupe to go? Hmmm, if it does, I'd bet we'd see the Prelude show back up.
Pilot/Ody to go? No way...now the bread and butter of Honda along with Accord. They will change and morph more, though.
Acura...Honda needs to decide what to do about this thing. They've never really made a more definitive statement for Honda in any positive way.

I really though Acura had some direction when they had the TSX introduced and the 04-08 TL. Such a shame to see them nose over and aim the nose cone back at the ground.

Acura...Honda needs to decide what to do about this thing. They've never really made a more definitive statement for Honda in any positive way.

If Honda REALLY wants Acura to be a luxury division, they need to:

1)Design some NEW performance oriented state of the art engines.

2)Don't throw some sway bars on an Accord platform and call it a "sports-tuned" suspension......

3)Have a manual sports shifting option on ALL automatics.....

4)Get rid of the RL series, it's got too much compeition in the $45-$50K market.

5)UPGRADE the interior fabrics to match quality by Audi and Mercedes.......

That would be a START......:yes:

I really though Acura had some direction when they had the TSX introduced and the 04-08 TL. Such a shame to see them nose over and aim the nose cone back at the ground.

The 2004 TL was a big deal, a lot bigger than the generation before. However, the sales seem to be slipping, and even the new TL seems old and outdated, plus the front end is ugly........

Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Infiniti, Audi, and yes even Hyundai (Genesis) have cars folks WANT to buy. Honda needs to get going or get out of the market. What really cracks me up is how TL owners thing their cars are gold. There are more overpriced used TL online ads than I can shake a stick at, which begs the question: if the car is so good, WHY are you selling it??:lmao: