I have had a hesitation/dead spot from a stop on my 02 Accord EX. It is a 4 cylinder engine. I recently cleaned the throttle body and made certain that the air filter is clean. The dead spot from a stop still exists. No engine lights are lit. Engine idles alittle rough with the A/C on but not irratic (steering wheel vibrates at idle).

Any help on what else to possibly look at would be appreciated.

Thank You,

ummm, I'll look into it & get back to ya..... :scratch: Mileage? Does it happen when cold, running temp or anytime?

Mileage is 50,000 and seems to be more pronounced when at operating temperature.

Thanks,

Princess:

I found TSB 010402 with a brief description:

"Subject regarding customer complaints that the engine hesitates briefly when accelerating". Do you have more info on this TSB? It was issues in April 2002.

What you referred to isn't a bulletin, it's an article in the service news....

I'm putting the whole thing on, plus a few other things that may help.... there's a bulletin, but not for your year.....but it sounds like your problem anyway....

I can't view the pdf's. Error message. Any ideas?

look in the PDF file thread of the Pit area..... there's solutions there....


Or try saving them before you open them. That's worked for many.

Thanks for the tsb's. I'll post a followup.

I'm putting the whole thing on, plus a few other things that may help.... there's a bulletin, but not for your year.....but it sounds like your problem anyway....

Princess - please try to open these files yourself from your posting. The first 2 don't work for me, and the last 2 are fine... :dunno:

They all work for me..... I always test them when I post them... but I rechecked again.

It sounds like the April 02 news bulletin was what I've been looking for for YEARS. People always just told me it was VTEC engaging for the first time - now I get the whole story.

It concerns me that the oil passages may be an issue. The oil level on my engine was fine. Oil pressure test is next...

I inspected the idle screw and it was totally closed. The TSB's that Princess posted were right on the money. The idle air bleed screw adjustment procedure stated that the PCM needs to learn the new idle. My question is this: on my F150, the PCM learns new parameters if you turn the headlights on with the engine off and disconnect the battery for 30 minutes. Can I do a similar procedure on my Accord EX or do I need the Honda Diag. tool?

Thanks again to everyone whom responded.

Maybe these can help........

Idle Learn Procedure: When
and How to Do It
All Honda models with programmed fuel injection
(PGM-FI) have the ability to learn and adjust the
engine idle speed to optimize engine idle
characteristics.
The idle learn procedure should be done
whenever you do any of these actions:
• Reset, replace, unplug, or reprogram the ECM/
PCM
• Disconnect or replace the battery
• Do engine work that requires R&R of the
intake manifold or the throttle body
To allow the ECM/PCM adaptive idle speed
system to learn and adjust the engine idle speed,
here’s what you do:
• Make sure all electrical items (A/C, audio unit,
defogger, lights, etc.) are turned off, then start
the engine.
• Let the engine reach its normal operating
temperature (the cooling fans cycle twice; the
coolant temperature is about 194° F).
• Let the engine idle for at least 5 minutes with
the throttle fully closed and with all electrical
items turned off.
• If the cooling fans cycle on while doing an
adaptive idle learn, add the time the cooling
fans are on to the 5 minute adaptive idle learn
time.


L4:

Adjust the idle speed using the Honda PGM Tester procedure, if possible. If not, use the following procedure.

NOTE:

Leave the IAC valve connected.

Before setting the idle speed, check these items:

- The MIL has not been reported on

- Ignition timing

- Spark plugs

- Air cleaner

- PCV system

On Canadian models, pull the parking brake lever up. Start the engine, then check that the headlights are off.

Disconnect the EVAP canister purge valve 2P connector.

Connect a tachometer, or the Honda PGM Tester (A), or an OBD ll scan tool to the Data Link Connector (DLC) (B) located under the driver's side of the dashboard.

Start the engine. Hold the engine at 3,000 rpm with no load (in Park or neutral) until the radiator fan comes on, then let it idle.

Check the idle speed with no-load conditions: headlights, blower fan, rear defogger, radiator fan, and air conditioner off.



Idle speed should be:
M/T
700+/-50 rpm

A/T
700+/-50 rpm (in Park or neutral)


Adjust the idle speed, if necessary, by turning the idle adjusting screw (A) 1/4-turn clockwise or counterclockwise.

NOTE: Do not turn the idle adjusting screw more than 1/4-turn without checking the idle speed.

After turning the idle adjusting screw 1/4-turn, check the idle speed again. If it is out of spec, turn the idle adjusting screw 1/4-turn again.

Let the engine idle for 1 minute with the heater fan switch on HI and the air conditioner on, then check the idle speed.



Idle speed should be:
M/T
770+/-50 rpm

A/T
770+/-50 rpm (in Park or neutral)


NOTE:

Do not turn the idle adjusting screw when the air conditioner is on.

If the idle speed is not within specification, see Symptom Troubleshooting Index.

Reconnect the EVAP canister purge valve 2P connector.



V6:


Adjust the idle speed using the Honda PGM Tester procedure, if possible. If not, use the following procedure:

NOTE:

Leave the IAC valve connected.

Before setting the idle speed, check these items:

- The MIL has not been reported on

- Ignition timing

- Spark plugs

- Air cleaner

- PCV system

On Canadian models, pull the parking brake lever up. Start the engine, then check that the headlights are off.

Disconnect the EVAP purge control solenoid valve 2P connector.

Connect a tachometer, or the Honda PGM Tester (A), or an OBDII scan tool to the Data Link Connector (DLC) (B) located under the driver's side of the dashboard.

Start the engine. Hold the engine at 3,000 rpm with no load (transmission in Park or neutral position) until the radiator fan comes on, then let it idle.

Check the idle speed with no-load conditions: headlights, blower fan, rear defogger, radiator fan, and air conditioner off.


Idle speed should be:

680+/-50 rpm (in Park or neutral)

Adjust the idle speed, if necessary, by turning the idle adjusting screw (A) 1/4-turn clockwise or counterclockwise.

NOTE: Do not turn the idle adjusting screw more than 1/4-turn without checking the idle speed.

After turning the idle adjusting screw 1/4-turn, check the idle speed again. If it is out of spec, turn the idle adjusting screw 1/4-turn again.

Idle the engine for one minute with the heater fan switch at HI and the air conditioner on, then check the idle speed.


Idle speed should be:

680+/-50 rpm (in Park or neutral)


NOTE:

Do not turn the idle adjusting screw when the air conditioner is on.

If the idle speed is not within specification, see the Symptom Troubleshooting Index.

Reconnect the EVAP purge control solenoid valve 2P connector.

Very detailed and informative. I will follow the procedures without the Honda Diag. tool first and if all else fails I'll take it to my indy mechanic for programming.

Thanks

Well what I stated during the original posting is not necessarily true. Since I've driven the Accord more than a dozen times since I've bought it, I noticed that it is not hesitating from a dead stop. When approaching a stop then accelerating, I notice a stumble like the engine stalls. This happens at about 5 to 10 mph at about 1200 rpms. It happens almost every time I slow down to just about stop. More or less like a rolling stop. Could this also be a sympton of the idle air bleed screw adjustment/PCM programming that is needed?

Thanks,

could be the EGR ports being clogged...... how about fuel filter? i'm not sure if what i said here is correct due the the car being still somewhat new.....

the hesitation for me normally occurs going up a hill above 3k rpms....

any ideas???

You said it was "random" :lmao:

VTEC switchover I'm guessing. It's about the right RPM depending on where your foot is.

it is random, cause it doesn't always happen.

sometimes, it will happen when fully warmed up, sometimes it won't.

last wknd, it happened 3 times below 3k rpms. the first 2 going up a hill, the last one on flat lvl ground.

this week, happened once, going up hill, between 3k-4k rpms.....

that's pretty random, right? :hic:

possible related issue:

if the car is fully warmed, turned off then restarted, do the RPMs dip down a bit before recovering to normal idle???

Hi All...

Sorry to beat a dead horse...

I have a 2001 Accord, F23A4. 115K miles.
I have the hesitation problem, at off idle.
I have read the posts hear, and else where, about setting the idle.
I am unable to change the idle. When I follow the procedure, the idle momentary rises then returns to 695-705 RPM. I want it to be, 750 RPM.
Additionally, I reset (dis con battery) the PCM. I had no stored codes.
I plan to do a drive test, looking for the temporarily stored codes (forgot techo word), if any. I also plan to look for leaks, via a propane test...
My code reader can do live data, I can provide, if useful.

Any further suggestions, on the "secret Vulcan mind meld," IE the, "Idle Learn." As the "Bruce Learn," has errored or failed...

Thanks for any help offed, Happy turkey day...
Bruce

Well what I stated during the original posting is not necessarily true. Since I've driven the Accord more than a dozen times since I've bought it, I noticed that it is not hesitating from a dead stop. When approaching a stop then accelerating, I notice a stumble like the engine stalls. This happens at about 5 to 10 mph at about 1200 rpms. It happens almost every time I slow down to just about stop. More or less like a rolling stop. Could this also be a sympton of the idle air bleed screw adjustment/PCM programming that is needed?

Thanks,

From the description here I would suspect a EGR problem, that is about the speed and rpm the EGR kicks in. I would try disconnecting it and driving the car to see what happens. The EGR is a two trip code so if you only drive it one time it wont even trip a code.

Bruce, post or send me your data.... I'll have my prince take a peek at it.

When is the last time you cleaned the throttlebody?

The thing I find odd is, I can't make Idle Learn, work???
When I adjust idle, it goes up, then goes back down, to ware it was before???

I bought the car back in April of Last year with 94K on it. I have 118K now.
It did not do these things, till it went to Honda for service for a timing belt and new transmittion under warranty.
I have not cleaned the TB ever.
I have not cleaned the EGR ever. I thought EGR Problem were on the V6, only?
I have no stored codes, pending codes, and nothing stands out in the live data.
What conditions do you want the live data?

The things that I find odd in the live data is,
Engine off, MAP is 29.5 when barro is 30.2 inHg or so.
At idle it's 7-10 inHg depending on, in gear or not.
TPS is 10% at idle.
And the 02's are at:
S1 = 0.64 to 0.65V
S2 = 0.605 to 0.76V
STFT and LTFT are around, 0 to 10 depending...
Dos this help?

Parts I've replaced as Std service (Honda part unless noted):
Spk Plugs OEM type (problem there b4 replacement).
Cap, rotter, and Wires (not OEM, problem there b4 replacement).
Std K and N Air filter (not a cone, problem there b4 replacement).
PVC (problem there b4 replacement)...

Parts I'm planning to replace, as Std service:
02 S1, $290 - expensive!

Bruce

Bruce, the idle learn will not work on your car because it's not programable in that year.

Your car is doing exactly what it's supposed to when it keeps going back to the idle setting because that's how it's made. You should turn the idle screw in until it bottoms out, then back it out 2 turns. That sets it back to factory there.

Then clean the throttle body. Your symptoms (with no codes) sounds like it's the issue.

Are your O2 sensors really stuck at the numbers you have listed???? (the shop uses miliamps for a more accurate reading)

from the "book":

Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S)(Primary, Sensor 1) (Secondary, Sensor 2)
The Heated Oxygen Sensor detects the oxygen content in the exhaust gas and sends voltage signals to the ECM/PCM. Based on these signals, the ECM/PCM controls the air/fuel ratio. When the oxygen content is high (that is, when the ratio is leaner than the stoichiometric ratio), the voltage signal is lower. When the oxygen content is low (that is, when the ratio is richer than the stoichiometric ratio), the voltage signal is higher.
0.0-1.25 V

At idle speed:

about 0.1-0.9 V

Hi,

Cant learn - D'oh...

I planed to clean the TB and later the EGR. I haven't done either yet.
I was gonna do them over the holadaze, but I got tied up...

I instead was helping my friend install a 1KW DC to AC converter (inverter) in her truck. Nothing like drilling into the firewall of a Isuzu Truck, to install 4 AWG wire (Deep cyc/ marine battery, 50A CB, ect).

Anyway, thanks for the help...

HAY!

So this weekend I cleaned the TB. WOW, what a difference. It was sooooo dirty that I had to remove it from the car completely (and bleed coolant after). Now my idle is too high slightly. Time to adjust it...

I also used some graphite lube on the cables and some silicone on the cruse control part of the thoutle (plastic piece was sticky). And adjusted the cables slack, as they were loose as a goose.
And no fatalities (brake some thing wile doing the repair).

And about the 02 sensor, it varies, but not all that quickly. On my Toyota, it quickly swings from .2-.9Volts like a slow AC wave form. Even thought its a DC. The 02 is on my list to just replace because it have more than 100K on its clock.
What dose the back 02 do. Just makes sure CAT is OK?

So, again, thanks for the help.