My idea of a real Stimulus package and automotive bailout...

The reasons to do this:
-- Car makers are having trouble selling their cars (We can pick on them because there cars are poorer quality, and such - but that is another post).
-- Alleged, "Global Worming" and such...
-- And the fact we are paying for oil, from people, who really don't like us.
-- This dose something, good for right now (anything the car makers are compelled to do, cant be completed for 5-10 years (Engines that get Higher fuel economy (FE), Hybrids, etc).
-- The Economy need stimulation, now...

I think there is a common solution...
-- Instead of directly giving money to the car makers, give coupons to the people, to buy newer car, a lower polluting car, that get better fuel economy (getting clunkers (POS) cars, off the road, replacing them with a newer car that is way lower polluting and gets, much better fuel economy (FE) -This is a much better idea)...
-- A person (or business) would apply for the coupon. Its non transferable. Good towards a new or used car.
-- Banks have gotten OUR money, now should be required give loans, or return money to US Govt.

New car Rules:
-- 2008 or 2009 cars US made cars...
-- Has to get Highway fuel economy of at least (EPA) 27 MPG (car has to get better than you current cars EPA Fuel economy). For foreign car makers with cars that were made hear (US), car has to get at least 34 MPG (car has to get better than you current cars EPA Fuel economy).
-- New Car is, up to half-off (up to $10-25K). Dealer/ Car maker get cash back redemption from the Government (like if the coupon was a check (but with string attached).

Used Car Rules:
-- 2009 - 1996 (Has to be OBD-2 (modern fuel injection and emission control)...
-- Has to get Highway fuel economy of at least (EPA) 25 MPG (car has to get better than you current cars EPA Fuel economy). For foreign car makers with cars that were made hear (US), car has to get at least 27 MPG (car has to get better than you current cars EPA Fuel economy).
-- Used Car is, at least, half-off (up to $15K). Dealer/ Car maker get cash back redemption from Government (Coupon was like a check (strings attached).

Businesses:
Can get cars and trucks (Tractors), too. Same rules, Has to get Better FE, and lower emissions, than whatever is being replaced. FE standers TBD (same as above)...


Notes:
-- Cars (clunkers) to be disposed of, have to be recycled properly. A car is required to trade, to be reused or recycled. No one is required to send there classic car to the crusher (specific wording to insure classic cars, are not disposed of)...
-- Why is used cars a better deal. Applicant with lower income, cant buy any car. Their car is more likely a total beater, highest smog causing car, and get the worst fuel economy - this car we need to get off the road (...reduces pollution and fuel consumption, a win-win solution).

Examples of expected outcomes:
-- 1982 Olds Delta 88. Get best FE, 10 MPG; and Bad pollution. Replaced with 2004 Chevy Nova, Best FE 28 MPG; and, what pollution? Owner works part time, at McD's, drives 10 miles to work; Car is free...
-- 1989 Ford Mustang (6cyc), barely runs, 15 MPG... Replaced with 2001 Honda Accord (one made in the US). FE 29 MPG; ULEV. Owner is a technician, makes enough to make payments, car was 60% off (income)...
-- 1992 Ford Taurus. Best FE is 25 MPG... Replaced with a New Ford Focus. FE is 35 MPG. Owner payed, $9k For car, making payments on the difference (1/2 off (SES ~$18K)...
-- 1990 Chevy (company) Truck. Drives 30K a year and gets 10 MPG? Replaced with GMC Sierra with cylinder-deactivation, 21 MPG (50% off)...
-- 1982 Freightliner, sand and gravel trucker, owner operator. Drives 150K a year, and get 4 MPG (diesel). Replaced with 2009, Kenworth, gets almost 8 MPG, and is a vary low (current CA standards) emission engine (50% off)...

Think if there was suddenly no more POS cars (and trucks) on the road. Vehicle caused pollution would be down, way down; Oil consumption, way-way down. Less vehicle accidence, less fatalities, and vehicle injuries. States would have more tax revenues. Vehicle makers, would be selling what they have (now), and would have the income, to work on better designs in the future...

Hay this is, Just an idea...

Ok Bruce, I will bite. I dont know that sending people to buy new cars in an answer really. I think it will only push automakers to raise prices a bit on cars that meet the specs, collect govt money, and sell a product that people may not really need.

Eh.....I don't believe in putting money into the hands of the same people who can't manage their own funds. This includes the buinesses that did the same thing. The money should go back to those who pay the taxes in the first place. The people who make this country run (i.e. not the bottom feeders).

I would like to see that money get put into finding fuel here in the states. This means converting our trains, 18 wheelers, and other large diesel engines to natural gas. We have plenty of it and it is our own. That alone will greatly reduce the amount of energy we buy from people who don't like us and keeps the money at home.

Drill for oil here. We don't have to pump it, but I want to show the rest of the world that we are ready to starve them into submission if we have no. No more of this catering to others when WE are the superpower.

Shale oil. Use that government money to reduce the costs to gain access to it.

Reduce business taxes. We (the U.S.) have some of the highest business taxes in the world. WI and CA are the highest in the world. You wanna know why businesses leave? That alone is a pretty good reason.

I want to see tort reform. There is something wrong when someone can sue for 10M for wrongful injury and win. Why? Some people's lives don't impact the world with 10M worth of impact....why should they get that much? As well, it is time for lawyers to charge a flat fee per hour instead of a percentage of the winnings. One large lawsuit can cripple a company beyond their ability to survive (small business).

I do like the infrastructure ideas. Taking some of that money and building our home infrastructure is a good thing as far as I can see.

I just don't believe if bailing individual people out. Sorry...some of us knew better than to get ourselves knee deep in debt. I do not want and don't deserve to have my money removed from my hands to bail those out who got in over their head in their home purchase.

I would love to see bankruptcy laws get much stricter. I think it is too easy to wipe your debt clean and force it on the others who do their duty and pay their obligations.

Not a plan, but I really do believe in getting America energy independent, but you're not going to do that by forcing everyone to drive something they don't want / can't drive. I think natural gas and an infrastructure to support it commercially is the answer to get the U.S. off of buying oil from outside our shores.

if they're giving out free car coupons, how is the automotive industry going to make money? they get money from the gov. BUT they're suppose to pay back the govt. how will they pay them back if they're not profiting?

That strategy would work to give the economy (and the auto industry) a boost, but it isn't sustainable. The auto industry is in the situation it's in because it has produced lackluster products with inefficient operations for far too long. Buying cars en masse from them would do nothing to promote the development of better cars and the trimming of excess expenses. While I opposed the bailout, at least it had a provision that stated that the automakers must be viable by a certain state. Simply buying cars from them wouldn't accomplish that.

Bruce, Texas already has a program similar to what you're talking about, but nowhere near the amount of stimulation or assistance you're referring to.

http://www.tceq.state.tx.us/implementation/air/mobilesource/vim/driveclean.html

I just recently turned in my 1998 Nissan (tore the tranny bolt beyond repair at the track) and got my '09 Coupe. Worked wonders for me since the car was purchased for $3500 and was still able to take my mods off before turning it in on 3 steelies and a spare, radio torn out, speakers out, and backseats missing...

Edit: This has been going on in TX for some years now. Well before the economy went down the hole.

My idea of a Stimulus Package is a bottle of Crown Royal and a couple of babes in nighties! :naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty:

if they're giving out free car coupons, how is the automotive industry going to make money? they get money from the gov. BUT they're suppose to pay back the govt. how will they pay them back if they're not profiting?

x 2

if they're giving out free car coupons, how is the automotive industry going to make money? they get money from the gov. BUT they're suppose to pay back the govt. how will they pay them back if they're not profiting?

In the case of the TX Drive A Clean Machine Program, the government subsidizes a vehicle in order to get an old one off the road. This lets the government pay dealers to help get old cars off the road and dealers to make more sales to put new ones on the road. It gives the consumer an incentive to buy a new car as opposed to trying to trade in some 1990 Accord that no one would be able to re-sell for even $3000.

Not conceivable.

Ok Bruce, I will bite. I dont know that sending people to buy new cars in an answer really. I think it will only push automakers to raise prices a bit on cars that meet the specs, collect govt money, and sell a product that people may not really need.

The idea is to get most people to:
1) Buy a newer car, that we currently have, right now.
2) Purchase Cars that get twice the fuel economy, compared to what they have now (10 MPG to 27 MPG is a huge jump)
3) Replacement car would have dramatically less emissions...
4) Remember we are gonna spend this money any way, lets get something for it - This is what we are currently planning to do, any way, give or loan or money, to the auto industry...

Eh.....I don't believe in putting money into the hands of the same people who can't manage their own funds. This includes the buinesses that did the same thing. The money should go back to those who pay the taxes in the first place. The people who make this country run (i.e. not the bottom feeders).

I would like to see that money get put into finding fuel here in the states. This means converting our trains, 18 wheelers, and other large diesel engines to natural gas. We have plenty of it and it is our own. That alone will greatly reduce the amount of energy we buy from people who don't like us and keeps the money at home.

Drill for oil here. We don't have to pump it, but I want to show the rest of the world that we are ready to starve them into submission if we have no. No more of this catering to others when WE are the superpower.

Shale oil. Use that government money to reduce the costs to gain access to it.

Reduce business taxes. We (the U.S.) have some of the highest business taxes in the world. WI and CA are the highest in the world. You wanna know why businesses leave? That alone is a pretty good reason.

I want to see tort reform. There is something wrong when someone can sue for 10M for wrongful injury and win. Why? Some people's lives don't impact the world with 10M worth of impact....why should they get that much? As well, it is time for lawyers to charge a flat fee per hour instead of a percentage of the winnings. One large lawsuit can cripple a company beyond their ability to survive (small business).

I do like the infrastructure ideas. Taking some of that money and building our home infrastructure is a good thing as far as I can see.

I just don't believe if bailing individual people out. Sorry...some of us knew better than to get ourselves knee deep in debt. I do not want and don't deserve to have my money removed from my hands to bail those out who got in over their head in their home purchase.

I would love to see bankruptcy laws get much stricter. I think it is too easy to wipe your debt clean and force it on the others who do their duty and pay their obligations.

Not a plan, but I really do believe in getting America energy independent, but you're not going to do that by forcing everyone to drive something they don't want / can't drive. I think natural gas and an infrastructure to support it commercially is the answer to get the U.S. off of buying oil from outside our shores.

Thank you Rush (Limba (Sp?), for your time on this thread...

The idea is to get most people to:
1) Buy a newer car, that we currently have, right now.
2) Purchase Cars that get twice the fuel economy, compared to what they have now (10 MPG to 27 MPG is a huge jump)
3) Replacement car would have dramatically less emissions...
4) Remember we are gonna spend this money any way, lets get something for it - This is what we are currently planning to do, any way, give or loan or money, to the auto industry...

Getting cars with lower emissions is great, but it does nothing to help improve the viability of the US auto makers over the long term. As I stated above, a major reason as to why they are in the situation they are in is that a majority of their products are uncompetitive compared with imports. Buying a bunch of undesirable cars now does nothing to stimulate future sales.

And buying used cars doesn't accomplish anything. None of the money spent on used cars makes it back to the manufacturers, only to dealers. Again, you are doing nothing to help make the automakers viable. Same goes for buying "imports" produced here. Honda and Toyota don't need the money as badly as the big 3. Why pay to stimulate sales of their vehicles?

Thank you Rush (Limba (Sp?), you your time on this thread...

I don't even listen to Rush...but maybe I should start as it seems like he has a significant amount of common sense....

Please tell me what the Texas dealers do with this autos that are traded in. Are the cars scrapped, sold as used and put back on the road (Thereby defeating the intended purpose) or sold at wholesale auctions to out of state dealers. Well, I guess at least Texas got rid of them.

I do like the idea of the Crown Royal and Babes in nighties. We can dream, can't we.

But, watching the Congressional hearings today on C-SPAN is better than any comedy show yet concieved. However, I did get a kick out of the Illinois Govenor on the View. Totally strange, comparing himself to Ghandi and Martin Luther King and a few others. The only thing stranger was the women on the panel and the audiance who bought into it. DUMB! I thought we had it bad with Edwin (I always keep a couple of hundred thousand at home) Edwards and William (90k in The Freezer) Jefferson. Yea bailout right, the plane is going down fast!

Stevencrosbie, I like the G Man myself

....
I do like the idea of the Crown Royal and Babes in nighties. We can dream, can't we....


One will do me just fine, and what's Crown Royal (Yah, I dont drink - Im assuming)???

I'm not so happy with congress, either (where did my money go?)...

I don't even listen to Rush...but maybe I should start as it seems like he has a significant amount of common sense....

Dont get me wrong, I dont completely disagree with you, just 77%...
-- Court reform. Slippery slope, likely outcome, working people shafted, big corporations win.
-- Bankruptcy. Again, same as above. And they already screwed us onece, on this already, credit cards companies got a free lunch...
(no one should be filing every 7 or 10 Years, and this was fixed last time)

-- Court reform. Slippery slope, likely outcome, working people shafted, big corporations win.

Maybe so, but in a nation where people sue OBGYN's because of genetic disorders their children are born with and win, where burglars sue the owners of houses they break into because they tripped and fell during the commission of their crime and win, etc., something needs to be done.

So, is CASH for Cars my idea?

haha i thought about this thread when i first heard of cash for clunkers.

Ya never know?!?!

Eh.....I don't believe in putting money into the hands of the same people who can't manage their own funds. This includes the buinesses that did the same thing. The money should go back to those who pay the taxes in the first place. The people who make this country run (i.e. not the bottom feeders).

I would like to see that money get put into finding fuel here in the states. This means converting our trains, 18 wheelers, and other large diesel engines to natural gas. We have plenty of it and it is our own. That alone will greatly reduce the amount of energy we buy from people who don't like us and keeps the money at home.

Drill for oil here. We don't have to pump it, but I want to show the rest of the world that we are ready to starve them into submission if we have no. No more of this catering to others when WE are the superpower.

Shale oil. Use that government money to reduce the costs to gain access to it.

Reduce business taxes. We (the U.S.) have some of the highest business taxes in the world. WI and CA are the highest in the world. You wanna know why businesses leave? That alone is a pretty good reason.

I want to see tort reform. There is something wrong when someone can sue for 10M for wrongful injury and win. Why? Some people's lives don't impact the world with 10M worth of impact....why should they get that much? As well, it is time for lawyers to charge a flat fee per hour instead of a percentage of the winnings. One large lawsuit can cripple a company beyond their ability to survive (small business).

I do like the infrastructure ideas. Taking some of that money and building our home infrastructure is a good thing as far as I can see.

I just don't believe if bailing individual people out. Sorry...some of us knew better than to get ourselves knee deep in debt. I do not want and don't deserve to have my money removed from my hands to bail those out who got in over their head in their home purchase.

I would love to see bankruptcy laws get much stricter. I think it is too easy to wipe your debt clean and force it on the others who do their duty and pay their obligations.

Not a plan, but I really do believe in getting America energy independent, but you're not going to do that by forcing everyone to drive something they don't want / can't drive. I think natural gas and an infrastructure to support it commercially is the answer to get the U.S. off of buying oil from outside our shores.

could, not, agree, more.

So, is CASH for Cars my idea?

:lmao: nice one

I want to show the rest of the world that we are ready to starve them into submission if we have to. No more of this catering to others when WE are the superpower.

Wow, just Wow. Way to go to show your Human side. It's statements like these that give the world such a poor image of the average American, when a lot of Americans I know couldn't be more opposite. These are people that restore your faith in humanity, that make you realize we're not that much different, and that there still is hope. That statement just sums up what is wrong with the world these days, and I'm not talking about the US as a "superpower" but almost all goverments today. It's either our way or screw you (especially if they have the "power" to back up a threat, militarily/economically/or otherwise). Fits the definition of Bully to a T.

The rest of your statement I agree with. Hopefully there is enough oil on US soil to sutain 5% of the population of earth using 25% of the oil produced. Maybe the rest of the world will stop getting invaded on false pretenses. :lmao:

i came in here thinking there would be stimulating packages






























































































son i am disappoint

i came in here thinking there would be stimulating packages...

son i am disappoint
Ah, im not gonna touch that...

we can recycle the clunkers, n make vespa scooters @ a fraction of the cost :thumbsup:..:yes: