Tech bulletins for I4 with manual trans?

Princess, do you have a way of finding out if there have been any ECU updates for the 08 Accord sedan I4 with manual trans?

I don't know but my dealer updated my ECU 2 weeks ago. Still didn't fix the hesitation problem.

I don't know but my dealer updated my ECU 2 weeks ago. Still didn't fix the hesitation problem.

Thanks Pimp. Would you mind glancing at your paperwork and see if a TSB was referenced on it? Is that what you took it in for?

Thanks Pimp. Would you mind glancing at your paperwork and see if a TSB was referenced on it? Is that what you took it in for?

There was no TSB. Yeah, that is what I took it in for. They did two things: reset the crankshaft position sensor and update the ECU. Like I said, it didn't fix anything. I'm taking it back and we'll see what happens. Is there any TSB's?

I have been having the same hesitation with my I4 MT accord. It's really annoying. I had them do a software update also, but I noticed no improvement. I'm getting ready to take it back to the dealer also. Mine is most noticable in second gear, in the 2000-3000 RPM range. I did run a tank of premium gas in the car to see if it was the knock sensor. The hesitation was improved but was still there. Keep us posted if you find out anything,

I'm trying to figure out what hesitation you're talking about. I haven't had my engine hesitate on me at all, unless I'm driving slow, and shifting at like 2-2.5k, then I expect it to because my RPM's drop down to 1-1.5, and the car doesn't have as much power down low... If you guys could give a little better explanation?

I Mine is most noticable in second gear, in the 2000-3000 RPM range.

:yes: Yeah man. Except mine's like 3000 - 4000 rpm in 2nd. Last week I actually did a WOT pull 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and the whole damn car was lurching during acceleration. :furious: This is ridiculous.

zexen, its kinda hard to explain. The car will hit a spot in the rpm range and the car will feel like it's corked up. Like a banana in the tailpipe. :lmao: Seriously. You seen Beverly Hills Cop when Eddie Murphy stuck a banana in the tailpipe and that car was lurching and had no power? Well, its like that but not as bad as the movie. I thought it was just a certain rpm range 3000 - 4000 but my car will do it at different rpm ranges, I've discovered. Basically if you accelerate hard it will hesitate....that is a almost guaranteed.

Mine is exactly like that. If you accelerate hard, it WILL hesitate. Mine is most noticably bad in the 2500-3500 rpm range and in 2nd gear. It will act like it's all bogged up, timing is retarded and then it will blow out of it in the 3500 range and take off hard, all of the sudden it's acting like it should and sets you back in your seat.

But here's the thing, it will have 'good days' and 'bad days'. For some reason the last three days it's been driving great. No hesitation, at least not as perceptible in comparison. It ticks me off because I fear taking it into the dealer and then having them not find a problem and they think I'm anal retentive. There are days when it is doing it, it is really bad.

Can I ask you this, did your car have high oil consumption during break in? Mine did, I'm doing the oil consumption test with the dealer (since 6000 miles) and I'm watching the oil level and it's not dropping anymore (haven't detected any for over 1000 miles). Could the engine sensors gotten fouled by the oil and then now it's behaving????:dunno:

Same story with mine. Mine is pretty consistent though and haven't had any oil consumption problems. I think it's just a fuel mapping problem most likely. Seems like it's either starving for fuel or air during that RPM range in second gear.

my memory is failing me, in my original post I meant to say in the 2500-3500 range (not 2000-3000), it sounds like we are having identical problems.

Can you turn off the VSa and see if it is still occurring?

Does this happen even after you've been driving for 15+ minutes? Empty/full tank? Have you checked your oil levels recently? How long does it hesitate for?

I haven't tried turning off the VSA, I'm not sure how that works but it's clearly coming from the engine and not through input at the wheels. Does the VSA affect engine performance or does it only apply braking at each ind. wheel?

Mine is worse when it's cold, warming it up only slightly helps. Oil levels don't seem to make a difference as I was low (hence the oil consumption test) and now I'm slightly above the mark and I don't notice any difference. It does it at full or empty gas tank. I also notice it's significantly worse when the air conditioner is on (or defroster), extra load on the engine. It hesitates when you're accelerating. If you only push the gas pedal down about 1/4 of the way it won't hesitate and smoothly increases in RPM's for the next shift, but if push on the gas harder it will bog down. It will continue to hesitate and act sluggish till it gets above at least 3500 rpms and then it's like everything opens up and sets you back.

Strangely enough, our 1988 accord (carb. car and had over 200k miles) had an almost identical hesitation problem. I thought I was doing away with the annoyance when I bought the new 2008. With the 1988, it was part of the distributor not advancing properly (I think there were recalls associated with that). It was such a high mileage car and kinda gutless anyway that I never spent the $ to get it fixed.

happens to me all the time...

I haven't tried turning off the VSA, I'm not sure how that works but it's clearly coming from the engine and not through input at the wheels. Does the VSA affect engine performance or does it only apply braking at each ind. wheel?

Mine is worse when it's cold, warming it up only slightly helps. Oil levels don't seem to make a difference as I was low (hence the oil consumption test) and now I'm slightly above the mark and I don't notice any difference. It does it at full or empty gas tank. I also notice it's significantly worse when the air conditioner is on (or defroster), extra load on the engine. It hesitates when you're accelerating. If you only push the gas pedal down about 1/4 of the way it won't hesitate and smoothly increases in RPM's for the next shift, but if push on the gas harder it will bog down. It will continue to hesitate and act sluggish till it gets above at least 3500 rpms and then it's like everything opens up and sets you back.

Strangely enough, our 1988 accord (carb. car and had over 200k miles) had an almost identical hesitation problem. I thought I was doing away with the annoyance when I bought the new 2008. With the 1988, it was part of the distributor not advancing properly (I think there were recalls associated with that). It was such a high mileage car and kinda gutless anyway that I never spent the $ to get it fixed.

exactly. I was also thinking a fuel or air problem.......like the car is starving or something. We seriously need to figure this out. I forgot to call and make an appt. for service today but next week I will. I'm gonna stay on Honda until this gets fixed. :grumpy:

I had a 3 day reprieve, car was driving great with no hesitation and drove smoothly, then I started it yesterday morning and it was back to its old self. I took my kids to a birthday party, was there for 3 hours and drove home. The hesitation stopped for the drive home. So what makes it do this, where it is fine and then not? It's gotta be a sensor or something. I noticed the compression on these engines are pretty high, I think 10.5:1. They gotta be pushing the limits on engine knock for non-premium fuels. Could it be atmoshphere changes, outside temp affecting engine knock and it's the sensor that retards the timing? The 3 days it was running great it was colder (below freezing) and high humidity where today it is high humid and warmer. I know, I'm stretching here, but it has got to be some stupid thing! I've counted 5 people on this immediate thread that have complained about this problem. It makes me feel somewhat better that I'm not the only one frustrated with this problem. I'm betting there has to be a recall in our future.

Could it be atmoshphere changes, outside temp affecting engine knock and it's the sensor that retards the timing? The 3 days it was running great it was colder (below freezing) and high humidity where today it is high humid and warmer. I know, I'm stretching here, but it has got to be some stupid thing!

That's what I was trying to get at in my questions...it's probably something stupid like that. Just gotta pay more attention when it happens, take some mental notes.

this is what I found;

this is what I found;


Thanks princess. Unfortunately I had my car updated 2 weeks and it didn't fix it. :dunno:

I had mine updated it didn't fix mine either. The tsb sounds exactly like what we're experiencing though.

seems like everyone is experiencing the same issue. My problem is with the engine at low RPM and high load (WOT). if the period of upshift and acceleration is short under low revs, then the issue is prominent. I have tried to have the VSA off and its more evident with the VSA off, than with it on. My suspicion is the Drive by wire throttle system and probably the ECU update in regards to the response time or a TPS sensor replacement might solve the problem, but again few have mentioned that the ECU update has not done squat.

Also, under the above mentioned conditions on freeways, I have heard a small pop emerging from the intake system where i suspect that the bladder opens up to intake more volume of air due to high vacuum. I am new to these DBW throttle systems as i used to own a 88 accord with efi and throttle cable connected to my right foot.

when is it you guys are feeling this hesitation problem. at idle when driving. a/c on a/c off

when is it you guys are feeling this hesitation problem. at idle when driving. a/c on a/c off

only when accelerating. a/c off everytime. Its winter here :D. One thing, I've had my TPMS light on since I've owned the car. I wonder if that is a factor? :dunno:

tpms has nothing to do with it accelerating from a stop or while driving and accelerating

tpms has nothing to do with it accelerating from a stop or while driving and accelerating

I think I read somewhere on another thread that TPMS light on means VSA is permanently on which retards ignition timing during acceleration. :dunno:

only when accelerating. a/c off everytime. Its winter here :D. One thing, I've had my TPMS light on since I've owned the car. I wonder if that is a factor? :dunno:

Why don't you put some air in your tires?

Why don't you put some air in your tires?

TPMS unit is malfunctioning. Tire pressure is what is indicated on the door. Dealer can't seem to fix it.

The hesitation on mine is worse with the A/C on, or during winter, when the defroster is on. The defroster turns the A/C on automatically to defog the windows. I'm taking mine back to the dealer soon. I'm also under an oil consumption test, I've driven it for 1500 miles since last oil change and I'm down 1/2 quart. I'm still trying to figure out if the two are connected (hesitation and oil consumption). Although it's appearing that everyone else on this board with the hesitation problem is not having problems with oil consumption. I guess I'm really lucky! :( Maybe I should go out and get a lottery ticket.

The hesitation on mine is worse with the A/C on, or during winter, when the defroster is on. The defroster turns the A/C on automatically to defog the windows. I'm taking mine back to the dealer soon. I'm also under an oil consumption test, I've driven it for 1500 miles since last oil change and I'm down 1/2 quart. I'm still trying to figure out if the two are connected (hesitation and oil consumption). Although it's appearing that everyone else on this board with the hesitation problem is not having problems with oil consumption. I guess I'm really lucky! :( Maybe I should go out and get a lottery ticket.

Just to help out, I don't seem to be having an oil consumption problem. I've only had my car for 1 month but it hasn't burned a drop.

Its the dumb DBW I hate it!Its too slow to work..it makes you look like you don't know how to drive stick.

Doubt it.

I doubt it's the DBW also.

I'm going to the dealer today and have a chat with them. Other than this TSB, has anyone gone to the dealer and actually had a positive outcome? At times it's the worst car running, EVER. Then other times it's smooth and drives great.

I swear I had this problem until I switched over to premium fuel, and I just pumped regular last week after running premium since sept because I wanted to see it i just had a placebo effect from pumping premium. driving normal was fine, but the next day I ripped it through acouple gears in WOT and I forgot that I pumped regular. I thought wtf is wrong with my car, its accelerating abnormally slower than usual. Then it hit me that I pumped regular the day before.

I had tried a few fuel tanks with premium, it did improve the hesitation, but it was still there, just not as pronounced. It definately is worse with regular. That tells me it's still an issue with the TSB as this could relate to the knock sensor circuit. They have to be pushing the limits with regular gas on these engines at the 1:10.5 compression ratio.

Forgive my ignorance, I've heard other people say "WOT". What does that stand for?

WOT=wide open throttle.

I'm running premium in my car right now. Hesitation is almost non-existant.

any updates on your hesitation?

Latest updates. On sunday, went down to the Oregon coast. Car drove average at best, hesitated a lot in the 3k rpm range and was constantly having to downshift. Car felt 'squishy', like it wasn't breathing right. On the way home, gassed up down in Oregon and the whole drive home it was like a different car with very little to no hesitation. I'm still on the same tank of gas and the hesitation is almost non-existant.

In a separate issue, but could be related, I've been having oil consumption problems and I'm currently undergoing an oil consumption test with Honda. I've been going through about 1 qt of oil every 3000 miles. The car only has 9200 miles on it, so technicaly that still isn't 'broken' in yet. When I had the oil changed at 6000 miles the oil levels didn't drop for the first 1500-2000 miles after oil change, then the last 1000 miles it dropped a lot (about 3/4 quart). Honda won't replace the engine until the oil consumption gets to 1qt/1000 miles, which I find rather incredible. It could be with fresh oil, the engine won't lose oil but as the oil gets older and degrades, oil consumption goes up. I'm supposed to take the car to the dealer every 1000 miles from here on out to get a paper trail.

I talked to them about the hesitation and the first thing they asked was where was I getting my gas. I told them Costco Gas station. They informed me about the whole tier 1,2,3 gas and that costco, safeway, fred meyer, AMPM all is tier 3 gas (bottom of the barrell). Chevron and 76 use tier 1 gas. The tank of gas I'm running right now (which I got down in oregon on the way home) is tier 1 and the car is running pretty good. They recommended I try using only Chevron for a while and with next fill up, put in a bottle of 'techroline' to help dilute the 'bad' gas. They also checked all the PCM updates and I was current. Could it be my problem is only related to bad gas (no pun intended)? They also told me what I already knew, with the higher compression engine (1:10.5) they are more and more sensitive to bad gas. They are probably on the upper limit of requiring the car be run on premium fuels all the time....hence the hesitation could be from the knock sensor all along.

I'm paying more attention to the oil consumption and the hesistation. I swear the oil consumption went up when the car was hesitating but wouldn't consume oil when the car was running fine. I really just want this problem to go away, outside of these issues, my wife and I really love the looks, feel and handling of this car. Does much better than our odyssey!

I called American Honda. They ****.:thumbsdow I ended up hanging up on them, started getting mouthy with me and I wasn't even being mouthy myself. All I did was ask 1/2 intelligent questions, to which they couldn't answer. I was not expecting that response, trust me! According to them, they are 'unaware' of this hesitation problem (I even mentioned the TSB they have out).

My hesitation comes and goes, I can't figure the dumb thing out, changes with the tides or if there is a full moon. I don't know.

Has anyone had any luck with a resolution with their dealer? All my dealer does is check the car for the latest software update, which does nothing. With no engine codes showing it doesn't appear there's a lot they can do.

If this continues, I'm contemplating using our states lemon law to put some :biggrin: teeth in this.

Any updates on this? I believe I am experiencing that same hesitation with my new '09 Sedan I4 standard 5 speed... I thought the car was built like that but now that I see all these complaints I believe I know exactly what you guys are talking about...

Any ideas if installing a SRI (Short Ram Intake) helps at all?

I've had my new 2009 4cyl. EX-L 5MT for 4 months now. I'm having the same issue exactly. It's starting to make me regret my purchase, because driving it is just frustrating.

I only use regular gas, since that is what is recommended.

It is definitely worse with the A/C on.

I'm also getting black junk out of my exhaust...a little pools in the pipe finisher...not sure if this is related.

It always happens in 2nd gear, between 2-3k...all the way until VTEC kicks in, then it is great. You guys are calling it a hesitation, which is right...but it isn't constant. It is more like a bucking sensation.

If I had some confirmation that using premium gas, and putting on a short ram intake would significantly help the problem...I'd do those things immediately.

I haven't taken it into the dealer yet. Based on the responses in this thread it sounds like that wouldn't do much good anyway.

Using premium definitely helps a little, won't make it go away altogether but it won't be as noticeable... I have an SRI on the way, shouldn't be more than a few days, I'll update this thread once its installed. I plan on taking the car in to the dealership to have it checked and get the ECU upgrade (if there is one available) before putting in the SRI.

Oh man, I have the same thing in my 07 4 cyl MT. I actually just posted this...

"Hello everybody.

Love the site. I've already learned a lot from the site. Nice surprises sticky is great!

I just purchased a certified used 07 Accord EX-L 4 cyl 5 MT sedan. Silver with black leather. Love the car. However, I have noticed that the engine isn't buttery smooth (while accelerating) like I expected to be. It is most noticable in 2nd gear while accelerating under load. It kinda feels like it is missing, or maybe like the i-vtec is cutting in and out rapidly.

The engine is buttery smooth above 3K rpms, and in 5th gear is smooth across all rpms. It also idles very smooth. The car is getting great gas mileage, between 34-35 mpgs.

Anybody know what this could be? Or had the same problem?"

Have you guys figured out a solution to this? We shouldn't have to put premium fuel in our cars.

ECU upgrade but that is for the 8th gen 2008... apparently it doesn't do much though... premium and SRI is what I'm trying... still waiting for the SRI to show up...

ECU upgrade but that is for the 8th gen 2008... apparently it doesn't do much though... premium and SRI is what I'm trying... still waiting for the SRI to show up...

Have the SRI installed yet? Thoughts?

SRI seems to help a little, not a huge difference though... I have just reverted back to Regular gas and I believe I feel it more... Premium does help. But it's still there... bringing my car in for 1st service soon, I will definitely discuss with the dealership.

Any updates with this? I'm still living with this hesitation and I come and go with dealing with it and getting sick of it. I've noticed that different gas tanks affect the hesitation more than others. Top tier fuels make a big difference but even they sometimes give me a crappy drive. I've got 22,000 miles on it and I've noticed the fuel economy has gotten a lot better but this hesitation is the same. I've not seen any resolution posted on the internet, but there are plenty of people complaining about it.