hey all,

i was wondering if you could help me out. today, i went to firestone for a 1pm appt for my lifetime alignment ($150 bucks give you unlimited alignments for the life of the car, awesome deal that i think is definitely worth it).

unfortunately, some problems came up with them today, namely honestly and apparently doing their job correctly. they lied to me about my car being in the bay when it wasn't, and then they lined up the car with 1996-2000 civic specs, instead of the accord specs. needless to say, i wasn't happy with the service there at all, and never plan on returning to that location. granted, the other experiences with firestone were excellent, so i'm sure that it's probably a isolated incident.

could someone post up good numbers for what my car should be aligned to, using their specs please? or a range of numbers so that i know that the car was lined up correctly?

thanks...

This turned up for me when I searched:

http://www.carforums.net/showthread.php?t=80472

Haha I dunno how much you'd want to trust that source though..

Stiller Fan:

I had my '02 aligned by my dealer last Fall (shortly after I bought the car).

Is your '99 an I4 or V6? :dunno:

Alignment specs are possibly different, depending upon which engine. But otherwise, I'd say they are likely the same. I can dig out my spec printout and post, if you like.

Word of advice: Don't let them try to sell you a "camber adjustment kit" for the rear end, unless you need or want it. Just another BS routine for the SA and the alignment guy to make more $$$$. They wanted to "blow" me for $189.99, for a right-rear CAK when, in fact, there was absolutely no problem to correct. After me inspecting my car, on the rack, looking for damaged/worn out parts, I told my SA, "FTS! Align my car, just like it is." (FTS = Forget That SH**!)

As you point out, you gotta WATCH these guys who do alignment/suspension work. Some of them can act like "Bozo The Clown." :joker:

I paid only $79 for a complete four-wheel alignment. Car drives/rides like a Million Bucks! :thmsup: :yes:

Alignment specs, appear to be the same for both engines and bodies:

camber front: zero (non adjustable), will go negative over time. Any more than -.5, the suspension needs to be checked for bad ball joints, worn bushings, or bent parts. Side to side (my preference) is .25 degrees, with right being more negative. If way out, adjustable upper arms/ball joints may be needed.

caster front: 2* 48' (2.8 degrees) Side to side (again my preference) is up to .5 degrees more positive on the right. Nothing you can do if it's out.

Camber rear: -30' (-.5 degrees) (non adjustable) will probably be more negative. Any more than 1 degree negative is excessive and camber kits are necessary. Both sides should be the same.

Toe front: Zero. No deviation if you want the tires to live.
Toe rear : 1mm IN per side, total 2mm IN Must be at this or slightly more IN per side to keep rear end stable. No more than 3mm total in.


Oh, btw, the 1998 here at home has only ever been checked ONCE in 240k. That was when the trans was installed, as I had the forward half of the subframe out.

fred,

for the toe rear, can you give that to me in degrees? i'm going off the printout that i have in front of me (for my "civic").... :rolleyes:

this is what i have so far (again, this is for my honda "civic". i may take it elsewhere tomorrow to double check their work if i feel it's necessary):

camber (front): (L) -0.2 deg (R) -0.1 deg
caster: none reported
toe (front): (L) -0.01 deg (R) -0.02 deg

cross camber (front): -0.2 deg
total toe (front): -0.03 deg



camber (rear): (L) -1.0 deg (R) 0.0 deg
toe (rear): (L) +0.14 deg (R) +0.12 deg

cross camber (rear): -1.1 deg
total toe (rear): +0.27 deg

Based on what I'm seeing, the front is set up wrong. It's got slight negative camber, combined with toe-out will rip the inner edges of the tires.

Caster readings should be automatic as it's part of doing the setup of the machine. Someone's not doing their job properly.

The rear camber isn't correct either. I've never seen a car with zero camber on the rear end. negative 1.0 is borderline, how much fuel was in the car when it was checked?

I have not been able to find a conversion calculator for mm to decimal degrees. Their machine should do it. Based on what I'm looking at .25 degrees is approx 3mm. But the conversion varies depending on wheel/tire size.

The place that did my car has a machine that will convert to any measurement that's out there.

Based on what I'm seeing, the front is set up wrong. It's got slight negative camber, combined with toe-out will rip the inner edges of the tires.

Caster readings should be automatic as it's part of doing the setup of the machine. Someone's not doing their job properly.

i about figured as much.... she'll go in for a re-alignment today after my appt to get the noisy wheel bearing fixed, along with the driver's side window (chattering when going up)....

Like you said earlier try a different Firestone shop. Since my experience with them has varied by location.

For the window chatter get some silicone spray($3) and generously spray the window (side and top) channels. Makes a world of difference and prolongs the life of the window regulators. I1 told me about this. Try not to get the spray on the black trim or it will get stained. Isopropyl alcohol will remove the stains though.

that was already tried with the widow channels.... no help there...

The "felt" covering on the inside of the run channels has probably worn away.
As long as the window seems to move at a consistent speed even tho it's bouncing, a new run channel weatherstrip is probably needed.

Civics seem to eat these for lunch on a regular basis, both 2 and 4 doors.