I want to change my ATF fluid but I can not get the filler bolt loose. To make sure this is the right bolt I am using a 17mm socket. I also have a 10" extension for my 3/8 inch ratchet but with all my might I can not get this thing to break loose. Should I spray some WD-40 on it? I don't have a cheater bar or piece of pipe unfortunately to make this less difficult. Any advice would be much appreciated.

G Stone:

You WILL need (about) a 12-inch extension on that 17MM socket...attached to a breaker bar. I use a 24-inch (?) length Craftsman bar, with 3/8" drive. If you can't afford to snag a cheap one from (say) AutoZone, then borrow one. Otherwise, take it to a shop and have a mechanic break it loose for you.

(I think the "Gorillas" at the factory tightened mine to about 99,000 ft./lbs.! :lmao:)

Hold with one hand, at the head of the breaker bar, while you pull (like HELL!) with the other. And avoid pulling into the two (2) solenoids attached to the strut tower! Spraying the bolt with WD-40 (or other penetrating) lubricant is likely a waste of time/effort, as the aluminum washer seals the filler port threads very tightly.

Having recently converted to Red Line D4, I KNOW exactly what I'm talking about. :yes:

Sorry, man, you probably need a bigger bar. They put that bolt on crazy tight at the factory. I used a breaker bar and wedged myself every way I could think of. After tons of cursing and bracing a foot on a tire mine broke free.

So, I'll claim that I don't know about the 6th gen - but on the 7th gen, the ATF fill is done thru the dipstick hole, as it's pretty big to put a tranny funnel into. Is it different on the 6th gens? I do know that on my Pilot, to get to the ATF fill bolt I needed a long extension, and the first time I loosened it, the way to start it moving was with a couple of strong taps with a hammer on the ratchet handle - worked much better than trying to just pull on it - same way when loosening the drain bolts for the first time....

andy

Andysinnh:

On Gen Six, the I4 cars fill ATF through the dipstick tube. But on the V6 cars, they have a fillter BOLT, on the top of the tranny. Haven't checked spec, but I'd bet the factory tightens it to 35+ ft./lbs. Being such a large bolt (24MM), with large surface (contact) area, under a lot of torque, it's a real PITA to break it loose! :rant:

Andysinnh:

On Gen Six, the I4 cars fill ATF through the dipstick tube. But on the V6 cars, they have a fillter BOLT, on the top of the tranny. Haven't checked spec, but I'd bet the factory tightens it to 35+ ft./lbs. Being such a large bolt (24MM), with large surface (contact) area, under a lot of torque, it's a real PITA to break it loose! :rant:

1/2" drive ratchet, 18" extension, 24mm socket, and a BMFH* - and a few taps later, the bolt is off! Every garage should have these (or at least it's typical what mine's picked up after about 30+ years of projects and different cars!! Anyone need the tool to remove the factory radio from a 90's gen saab?) :lmao:

andy

* - Big "M**** F****" Hammer :naughty:

So, I'll claim that I don't know about the 6th gen - but on the 7th gen, the ATF fill is done thru the dipstick hole, as it's pretty big to put a tranny funnel into.
andy

7th Gen V6 has an ATF filler bolt. If you have a Honda recall mod for the 2nd gear lube then the ATF filler bolt is removed and the 2nd gear mod screwed in its place. Anyway, filing via the dip stick is still easier and less messy.

The hammer against the ratchet would be my vote! I did a diy for the 6th gen I-4 on the forum, but not the V6.

At least you tried the filler bolt before draining. That was a smart move

I had the car jacked up at first and then I thought, "wait a minute, I should try the filler bolt first!" Glad I did or I would really be up a creek. Tried the WD-40 with no success and tried the hammer trick but that didn't work out either. A 12" extension would definitely work better.

I am going to try this next weekend. I will be traveling to my parents house and my father has a large pipe we can use as a cheater bar and a 12" extension. Come hell or high water, I will have it done by next weekend. I will keep everyone posted! :yes:

And by the way, when I could not get the filler bolt loose, I took a look at the dipstick hole but it is very narrow and small. A normal funnel does not fit. I would need an extremely tapered funnel for it to even fit and then I would probably have to pour so slow that it would be a huge pain as well.

G Stone:

ONE MORE TIME: Obtain (somehow) a LONG breaker bar. Borrow it, buy it, else steal it.

Attempting to install ATF through the (tiny) V6 dipstick tube is a SICK JOKE. :(

G Stone:
Attempting to install ATF through the (tiny) V6 dipstick tube is a SICK JOKE. :(

A plastic container with a lid, a clear plastic hose with a small reduction that slips into the dip stick tube is easy. Once made up it’s a 10 second job to set up. Place the required amount of AFT into the container and go do something for 10 minutes. I do it this way to save my back and the hassle of getting to the AFT filler bolt. Maybe yours is easier to do?

I do a drain and refill using one ratchet, no mess, nothing to remove but a drain plug and the dip stick.

MikeCZ:

Hey, if that method works for YOU, so be it! :)

I also drain using only a 3/8" drive ratchet. But accessing/removing my filler bolt is not that big a deal. Long pull handle (breaker bar), 12" extention, attached to a 17MM socket. Along with a sailor's vocabulary, I can break it loose in one, gutsy pull. :yes:

Once filler bolt is removed, using a long, tapered funnel, I can install ~2.7 - ~3.0 quarts of ATF in about 1.5 minutes.

I also do NOT tighten it back as tight as the factory did! :D

I wonder WHY the V6 cars are equipped with a filler bolt...but the I4 cars are not? :scratch:

Wardner:

Yes, it’s like the old saying horses for courses. I would like to add that I am in complete agreement with you on reducing the tightening torque of these bolts.

I know some on the forums will jump up and down and claim that Honda is infallible and know exactly what they are doing, sigh! And by not following the handbook I and others like me will burn in the hell fire of Honda ATF (at normal operating conditions).

While it’s absolutely correct to follow the torque specs when assembling an engine, it’s a different story when it comes to these two bolts. If you can’t differentiate between engine, body, suspension and critical component torque specs and these less critical filler bolt torque settings and believe that you must follow the recommended torque with these bolts then you’re new to servicing and rebuilding cars. Not everything is black and white.

As always, these bolts along with all fluids and filter sealing should be checked weekly for signs of seepage and/or correct levels, regardless of what you torque them to.

I'd fine a thick-wall pipe at least 2 Ft long, and a 2 FT 3/8th beaker bar, for such problems. I had to use both to get the trany drain bolt off the first time. I guess I'm weak?

If you only put 5000 miles on a year how often would you change your tranny fluid?

Honda "recommends" every 30,000 miles.

MikeCZ:

Perfect agreement with you, about torque specs. Head bolts, rod bolts, crank mains, axle nuts, wheel lugs, a resounding "Yes!" Everything else? I don't allow "book sense" to cloud and/or overrule my (God-given) COMMON SENSE! :D

From personal experience, ANY damned service manual (including those the dealer uses) is severely LIMITED, in terms of content. Many contain serious flaws. Design/production/manufacturing engineer..."talks" to the technical writer...who, in turn, presents their "draft" to a publishing company. And here we go, reminding me of that famous Led Zeppelin tune "Communication Breakdown." :lmao:

(Having written countless ECOs (Engineering Change Orders) and done annual (Blueprint) part and process specification reviews for many years, I believe I am qualified to speak with authority. :yes:)

I believe a lot of torque specs are unnecessary. However, in the interest of protecting the "layperson," uneducated and inexperienced, SOME value must be provided. In my (and likely your own) situation, I have a "torque wrench" built into my head and hands, given some 42+ years of practice/experience.

Makes NO damn sense to me (from an engineering standpoint) that HMC would equip the V6 4ATs with a filler bolt....yet delete it from the I4 cars. :dunno: :scratch:

The plastic tubing thats used when filling the trans. back up with fluid can be obtained from the hardware store, Home Depot, Lowes etc.

Plan B...if you still get can't get the bolt unstuck is to have the dealer or an indy shop loosen the bolt for you. Then after that you should be fine with all subsequent d/f's.

If you only put 5000 miles on a year how often would you change your tranny fluid?

Honda "recommends" every 30,000 miles.

If mostly city miles then as early as 15k. 50/50 city highway then 30k sounds good.

Sometimes you have to tighten before you can loosen. Try to turn your wrench in the tightening direction with a bump of a rubber hammer, maybe. This will usually break the grip of the threads and washer. Don't overdo it. you just want to break the grip.

Most important is to make sure the socket dos not slip off. Apply straight downward pressure, while trying to undo the drain plug. A beaker bar and extender pipe, should work.

I got it!!! :banana: Yesterday I finally completed the ATF change!! One broken 12" extension and 1 broken Craftsman ratchet later, it was done! The filler plug came off after a good crank with a 2 foot pipe and the drain plug came off with the pipe attached to the ratchet as well. It did end up slipping in the drain plug a bit so 2 corners are a bit rounded now so I may eventually need a new one. :censored: The magnet on the drain plug was coated with metal shavings. Super fine and like a silver goo. I wiped all them off and re installed. The car seems to shift much smoother now so that is great. I plan on doing these D&R's every 15,000 miles.

G Stone:

Jolly Good Show, Man! :thmsup: :)

See? We knew you could DO it! :yes:

I was quite lucky when I (finally) broke my filler bolt loose, not rounding off the "ears." And I did NOT pull it down anywhere near as tight when I reinstalled it! Excessive torque is SO unnecessary! :thumbsdow

Along with the magnetic drain bolt, the filler bolt is a bit pricey...around $10.00. At least you won't have to kill yourself again should you decide to replace yours with a new one.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=ACCORD&catcgry2=2002&catcgry3=2DR+LX+V6&catcgry4=4AT&catcgry5=AT++++++TRANSMISSION+HOUSING+(V6)&vinsrch=yes


BTW, what ATF did you install in your car? :dunno:

G Stone:

BTW, what ATF did you install in your car? :dunno:

I used Honda Z-1. I know you are probably disappointed I didn't use Redline but I just did not have the money to order an entire case and pay for the shipping. :thumbsdow

I used Honda Z-1. I know you are probably disappointed I didn't use Redline but I just did not have the money to order an entire case and pay for the shipping. :thumbsdow

G Stone:

NO particular disappointment here. YOUR car. YOUR money. YOUR decision.

I am just thoroughly opposed to Honda Z-1. :thumbsdow

Next time, I might use AmsOil Universal ATF. Or slide by the 'Zone (AutoZone) and grab a case of Mobil 1 ATF. WHO knows? :dunno:

Funny since, I was thinking of changing to RL D4...

Funny since, I was thinking of changing to RL D4...

Why???

Why???
After I send my my ATF in for OA, if It has not improved, I'll switch, to make sure the AmsOil ATF is not part of the problem. I dont expect this will be the case.

Bruce Hawkins:

I could have just as EASILY used AmsOil Universal ATF. While FredSVT and I have debated about its quality and performance, I have had excellent experience with AmsOil products. I've had AmsOil 10W-40 in the gearbox of my trusty '86 over fifteen (15) years. If it operated any better, Congress would probably outlaw it.

Switching to Red Line D4, in MY mind, is a "Zero-Sum" game. After reading the MDS on Mobil One, AmsOil, and Red Line, I decided to try Red Line D4. Thus far, I am thoroughly satisfied. If my tranny now had AmsOil Universal ATF installed in it? I probably wouldn't detect any significant difference. And if so, I wouldn't care.

Main thing is, I am just completely opposed to using Honda Z-1 in the Gen Six 4ATs. While it may work PFW (Peachy, F-ing Wonderful) in other Honda ATs, Z-1 is NOT for ME, and NOT for MY car. Decimal point.

Any thing synthetic is likely better, than any conventional ATF. I kept using Z1 in my Moms 1987 Accord. She only has 60K on it.

Let me know if any of you end up trying Mobil1 synthetic ATF. I was looking into getting it but could not find any feedback on it from Gen Six owners.

G Stone:

Mobil One full-syn ATF is very likely okay. And widely-available, at most any parts store.

Just that, after reviewing the MDS on Mobil One, AmsOil, and Red Line, I decided to use Red Line D4.

If YOU choose to "experiment" with Mobil One ATF, please inform the rest of us of your "test" results.