Whatcha think?

Nope,,, you want to do yourself in fine. but to ask or even have another do it... Nope

Could be that how we feel about this (and other life/death issues) comes down to to how we feel about God.
If God does not exist, then our opinions are what count.
If a Creator God does exist, then it would be prudent to figure out what He has to say about this.

I would like to have the choice if it comes down to it someday. I don't want to exist as a useless person. Oh wait I already do! :paranoid:

I am torn on this.

I think that if you have the money and can do it willingly you should be allowed. No one should be forcing you to stay alive.

However, many times people are forced into doing things, or end up doing things they regret afterwards that they'd like to undo. Death is one of those things you can't undo.

I am torn on this.

I think that if you have the money and can do it willingly you should be allowed. No one should be forcing you to stay alive.

However, many times people are forced into doing things, or end up doing things they regret afterwards that they'd like to undo. Death is one of those things you can't undo.

Yeah but this is something that nobody will ever regret doing....there is never be a chance to regret it. I know I don't want to live as a vegtable, or if i am old and don't want to burden people with my unless life and I am not happy I think it should be my right to end it all.

My prince & I have talked about the possibilites of "what ifs".... I told him if it ever comes to the point that he's on life support I'd promised to "trip over the cord" after a reasonable amount of time. Say an accident.... if there's no brain function in a month or so, then unplug. I'd want the same....

For illness, with later stages of dementia the one with it isn't the one suffering, it's the loved ones. So I'd want to deal with the wishes before then. If I were diagnosed, I'd have a living will or something put in my file.

For painful illnesses, I'd want to set a pain level.... something like if pain meds don't work & are being asked for too often.....so I was too drugged to know my loved ones... then let me give up.

I have no fear of death. It's part of life. I'm not anxious to bring it on.... but I really hate suffering.

I've never read a Bible scripture that supports the "no suicide" thought that many believe. The ones that are used aren't talking about the body as in the thing we live in, it's talking about the body as His church. Keeping it "pure" & "holy". I don't know enough about other books of religion to know what they say.

My only real fear with legalized euthanasia is it coming to OTHERS making the decision not the one that's sick! It think a form should be a part of your medical records. You can change it as you wish, but YOU make the choice. Not family, not Drs, not courts. Maybe linked to your SSN or some dort of permanent record.

Just my opinion........ :)

My prince & I have talked about the possibilites of "what ifs".... I told him if it ever comes to the point that he's on life support I'd promised to "trip over the cord" after a reasonable amount of time. Say an accident.... if there's no brain function in a month or so, then unplug. I'd want the same....

For illness, with later stages of dementia the one with it isn't the one suffering, it's the loved ones. So I'd want to deal with the wishes before then. If I were diagnosed, I'd have a living will or something put in my file.

For painful illnesses, I'd want to set a pain level.... something like if pain meds don't work & are being asked for too often.....so I was too drugged to know my loved ones... then let me give up.

I have no fear of death. It's part of life. I'm not anxious to bring it on.... but I really hate suffering.

I've never read a Bible scripture that supports the "no suicide" thought that many believe. The ones that are used aren't talking about the body as in the thing we live in, it's talking about the body as His church. Keeping it "pure" & "holy". I don't know enough about other books of religion to know what they say.

My only real fear with legalized euthanasia is it coming to OTHERS making the decision not the one that's sick! It think a form should be a part of your medical records. You can change it as you wish, but YOU make the choice. Not family, not Drs, not courts. Maybe linked to your SSN or some dort of permanent record.

Just my opinion........ :)


Well I understand what you said that it's about the family, but the family can't always be selfish and have to see things from the other side. You put it well here as a case by case basis but I still believe there are exceptions to everything. I know when people spend years on life support people often say, at least he's not suffering anymore.

My aunt "lived" for a few years on support. Her husband just couldn't let go. Since there's no way to know for 100% how much "suffering" they are in, I think it's best if the decision has been done by the person themselves. It takes the burden off the family.

I know he did what he did out of love, but it seemed cruel to me.

In her case it was not body illness, it was brain. Dementia that lead to not body functions without support. Finally her body gave out too.

I just think it's a good thing for people to discuss with their loved ones.

Some will believe ANY life is better than no life. That should be considered too.

Before my mom remarried I told her that if she had stroke that was really bad. Enough to lose most brain function, I'd want to have her unplugged. She didn't agree. Which means I'd never do it. So now I know her wishes. It's not what I'd want, but it's her body...so it's her decision. We discussed it & that's the important thing. Now I know her feelings.

Yeah but this is something that nobody will ever regret doing....there is never be a chance to regret it. I know I don't want to live as a vegtable, or if i am old and don't want to burden people with my unless life and I am not happy I think it should be my right to end it all.

What I was getting at was that I wouldn't mind allowing it under certain circumstances.

If I were in a PVS like Schiavo I would definitely want the plug to be pulled ASAP so that I can just get over it. That is clear cut.

But there are cases where it is not clear cut.

I am for it but I wouldn't support across the board unrestricted assisted suicide. There has to be some guidelines.

Well I am sorry to hear your aunt "lived" that way. I think of it as cruel myself, but I try to understand the other point of view. I felt for Terry Sheivo who was on life support for what, 12 years? The doctors said she had brain damage that would never be fixed. She didn't know anything, she just stayed in bed all day on life support. I am sure she couldn't even get up to use the bathroom. I don't want to paint a mental picture but realized the reality of it. That Terry probably really didn't suffer because she didn't even know who she was or anything, she was just a beating heart. I felt that was just a terrible situation.

The MAIN guideline should be the person! THEIR wants. Not anyone else's. After that then there can be whatever regulations they want.

Something like "if I'm a veggie for more than a year, end it". Or "if I can't breathe without machines for XX amount of days, weeks, months..."

I just love this bunch!! It's so cool to discuss stuff like this! Agreeing isn't the point.... getting the opinions is great!! :thmsup:

I just love this bunch!! It's so cool to discuss stuff like this! Agreeing isn't the point.... getting the opinions is great!! :thmsup:[/QUOTE]

I agree, this is good. I like to hear other peoples opinions too. If we all agreed we wouldn't be human. I think I just found my new favorite forum.

Some of this discussion seems to blur the line between euthanasia and withholding life support. I don't see them as the same. It may be an oversimplification, but I view the difference as taking a life versus allowing a natural death. The former is taboo, but the latter is indeed a very personal and case-by-case matter as to what intervention, if any, is desired.

I don't endorse euthanasia, but if you want a logical argument for it, try this. . . There is AI software that accurately predicts mortality when you check into a hospital. It requires medical history, current ailment, current state of health, bloodwork, tests, age, gender, etc, the attending doctor, prescribed treatment, etc. etc - - the point is the thing is "dead accurate" :lmao: . So what? So 80% of the total health care dollars spend in the USA are spent on the last 6 months of life!!! Think of the potential savings that could be spent elsewhere - - but of course our currency would have to read: "In Software we Trust" :thumbsdow

Technicaly, yeah, they're different. But in either case, someone would be causing the heart to stop beating.

So if someone is a veggie & on all sorts of life support, it's OK to unplug them....but if a person in their full capacity knows it's coming & doesn't want to get to that point, they shouldn't get legal help from a Dr. to end it before it happens?

I don't exactly agree that either case CAUSES death. Certainly they both result in death -- CAUSED in the former case, and ALLOWED in the latter case. Otherwise, you've made a fair assessment of where I stand.

BTW, you mentioned not finding any scripture against suicide, whereas I feel "thou shalt not kill" is applicable. Do you feel otherwise?

uhm . . . think I got my former and latter mixed up . . . can you get my drift?

I don't think "thou shalt not kill" applies. Any more than it does when God told the same people to go & make war on His behave. The context doesn't quite work.

So I guess it depends on what a person sees as "murder".

i definitely think it's a case by case thing and that the person, if able to do it, should the one to decide. hopefully prior to something happening that would result in the question arising.

i don't think the choice should rest on a family member's shoulders. it results in fighting between who should make the decision and what the decision should be.

a living will could be a way to help state what you want in certain situations or who you want to be in charge of making that decision.

it's a tough decision no matter who has to make it.

problem with religion is that not all religions believe the same thing. so by "siding" with one side or the other, you will likely violate someone's beliefs and thus be siding with the other's religious beliefs.

if it is left up to individuals, then they can enact whatever beliefs they have into their decision.

know what i mean? :dunno:

problem with religion is that not all religions believe the same thing. so by "siding" with one side or the other, you will likely violate someone's beliefs and thus be siding with the other's religious beliefs.

if it is left up to individuals, then they can enact whatever beliefs they have into their decision.

know what i mean? :dunno:

this is EXACTLY the problem i have with trying to legislate morality - by doing so, we (and by we i mean the government) are clearly supporting one religion over another, which violates the constitution!

on this topic, though, i do support dr.-assisted suicide for the terminally ill. i don't think anyone should be forced to suffer, or to take their life in a humiliating way. however, i agree there should be some method of regulating the process to make sure it isn't abused, and the decision should rest solely with the affected person, NOT with their families!

I never take the Bible literally. Even in Catholic schools and being taught by Catholic monks we were taught not to take it literally. (Really!!)

Ironically enough, it does have several examples of suicide, including that of Moses asking God to take his life!! (Numbers 11: 12-15)

There are several other examples that show that the Bible does indeed condone assisted suicide and death with dignity, such as when Saul killed himself in battle by falling on his sword. ( 1 Samuel 31:4-6 )

It is the church who has decided that suicide in all its forms is a sin. Like the Government, they are often hopelessly out of touch with reality and the actual things they're supposed to represent.

i don't think the choice should rest on a family member's shoulders. it results in fighting between who should make the decision and what the decision should be.

Agreed, but sometimes things happen suddenly, and often there is no choice but to have a family member decide to pull the plug or not.

So I propose that if you want to be protected, have a living will. If not, then be prepared that if you become a vegetable, your family is going to end up fighting over whether you should live or not.

It's all a matter of personal responsibility.

What I didn't like about Schiavo is that politicians, right up to the Governor had to get involved. Really, it's none of his business. This is a family matter and nothing else. It got way too much Government and media attention.

I never take the Bible literally. Even in Catholic schools and being taught by Catholic monks we were taught not to take it literally. (Really!!)


not surprising at all. the catholic church isn't a literalist church! many protestant religions, however, ARE literalist. ironically, the lack of literal interpretation of the bible is one of the things that led to the questioning of the catholic church way back, and ultimately helped spark the protestant reformation.

(sorry, i'm a history teacher, i can't help myself sometimes! :lmao: )

OT: Famous quote from our (now retired) principal:

"God is boring. Deal with it."

not surprising at all. the catholic church isn't a literalist church! many protestant religions, however, ARE literalist. ironically, the lack of literal interpretation of the bible is one of the things that led to the questioning of the catholic church way back, and ultimately helped spark the protestant reformation.

(sorry, i'm a history teacher, i can't help myself sometimes! :lmao: )


Somehow I thought it had to do with the fact that the king of England wanted to divorce his wife. :dunno:

That's what Bush needs.

a divorce? assisted suicide? to take things more or less literally?

Somehow I thought it had to do with the fact that the king of England wanted to divorce his wife. :dunno:

that was the creation of the Anglican church. but the protestant reformation started about 50 years before that, officially when martin luther nailed the 95 theses to the door of the church in Wittenburg. in the theses, he used literal interpretations of scripture to speak out against the actions of certain high-ranking officials in the catholic church, particularly those selling indulgences, and call for reforms of the catholic church. it snowballed out of control from there though, as luther was ex-communicated, and the first "protestant" church was formed (notice the root of the word protestant is "protest" - its a key point!). :)

That's what Bush needs.

what does bush need? i think you've confused all of us! :lmao: :blah:

that was the creation of the Anglican church. but the protestant reformation started about 50 years before that, officially when martin luther nailed the 95 theses to the door of the church in Wittenburg. in the theses, he used literal interpretations of scripture to speak out against the actions of certain high-ranking officials in the catholic church, particularly those selling indulgences, and call for reforms of the catholic church. it snowballed out of control from there though, as luther was ex-communicated, and the first "protestant" church was formed (notice the root of the word protestant is "protest" - its a key point!). :)


Ah, I got ya.

Good info to know!!

I'm officially a protestant, btw (presbyterian). I just was mostly raised in catholicism so it's what I mostly know.

a divorce? assisted suicide? to take things more or less literally?


A doctor assisted divorce. Literally. :lmao:

:D :lmao:

I think Dr assisted suicide is both common and legal... here's why:

Elderly or mentally ill people are allowed to starve and die if the family allows, or if the family or person refuses an IV and/or feeding tube. They'll even provide pain meds to minimize whatever suffering during this process, and a hospice nurse will visit daily to guide you through it.

While this process does take 1-2wks, it is relatively fast, painless, and legal.

Once the feeding tube is in, though, that's where it gets hard for me. I would have a hard time removing a feeding tube.

if the person is really ill they should have a poll from persons loved ones because
itll hurt the family alot more then the person thinks ......and the person shouldnt think of them selves .........but then if there is no way to get better ......pull the plug and dont let them suffer letting them spend the rest of there life in bed