I was watching the OVERHAULING last night on Military channel :dunno: where they were overhauling veterans rides.

Anyways the episode with the 1968 Pontiac Firebird which was painted black. Chip Foose went on and designed this custom suspention and frame for the car, and @ the end, being unsatisfied with how the front sits, he decided to lower the front of the car. He simply took front springs off and CUT THEM?!?!? :dunno::jawdrop::screwy::confused:

I always knew that cutting springs is a "no go" and seeing it done by one of the leading custom car manufacturers was seriously jaw dropping.

Am I the only one who is surprised to see that? What do you guys think? :dunno:




Here is a pic of the CAR:


http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac343/artiom1985/OverhaulinPontiacFirebird.jpg

yes i saw that too. i dont have very much knowledge about suspension systems but i guess whatever chip decides goes ?

yes i saw that too. i dont have very much knowledge about suspension systems but i guess whatever chip decides goes ?

Yeah, but I do not think it is safe.

Springs are designed for a certain rebound rate, and cutting them probably messes it up.

I saw that episode and thought it odd also. It was like "We're outa time, do whatever".

I do not know, I was thinking that there is an explanation out there that I am not aware of about cutting springs, something along the lines like "well if you have after market adjustable shocks you can cut the springs so much and would not hurt anything".

But I guess RTexasF explanation "We're outa time, do whatever" decribes the situation pretty well.

I am not going to be surprised when this car will end up in the ditch or something like that due to going 80-100mph with the front end bouncing like crazy.

RUS777, To lower car by cutting suspension springs is a very BAD idea; because your spring rates will be all wrong. Lowering a car is more than just short springs. Its short springs with proper spring rate, stiffer dampers to compensate for reduced suspension travel, and different alignment settings to compensate for fact that suspension is further up in its travel, Regards

Richard

If you cut the springs a little Im guessing it is ok as long as you adjust the rest of the suspension. Chip knows what he is doing i think. I would never do it to a car but I am also not a master car builder.

Quote Aceman196: “a master car builder”

Does not mean that a car builder is an engineer, physicist, or mathematician or knows what spring rate even is, or how to balance spring rates, or why spring rates must be balanced.

Computing spring constant k for a compression spring that exerts a force F when deformed to length Ldef. Spring constant k is found by inverting Hooke's Law.

Rate of a spring is the change in the force it exerts, divided by change in spring deflection. It is force gradient versus deflection curve. An extension or compression spring has units of force divided by distance, for example lbf/in or N/m. Torsion springs have units of force multiplied by distance divided by angle, such as N•m/rad or ft•lbf/degree. Inverse of spring rate is compliance, that is if a spring has a rate of 10 N/mm, it has a compliance of 0.1 mm/N. stiffness (or rate) of springs in parallel is additive, as is compliance of springs in series.

Also further computation leads to rate, deflection, and load..

Solid Height = (Number of Coils – 0.25) x Wire Diameter
Example, for a spring with 14 coils and a wire diameter of 0.5”, Solid Height calculated as:
Solid Height = (14 – 0.25) x 0.5 = 6.875

Rate= Load (lbs.) ÷ Spring Deflection (in.)
Example, if a spring deflects by 2.75” under a load of 300 lbs with Rate calculated as:
Rate = 300 ÷ 2.75= 109

Deflection = Load (lbs) ÷ Rate
Example, a spring under a load of 300 lbs with a 109 Rate with deflection calculated as:
Deflection = 300 ÷ 109 = 2.75

Load = Deflection x Rate
Example, a spring with a 109 Rate and a 2.75” deflection with load calculated as:
Deflection= 2.75 ÷ 109 = 300

Regards,

Richard

Once you do something like cut springs, it is all about show. Not about go.

Well cutting springs is a cheap way to go if you don't have money to go buy others. Much more of a stiffer ride because your are making the spring lose its rates. Of course you will have the desired ride height, but you will have to mess with the toe and camber.

Quote Aceman196:

Does not mean that a car builder is an engineer, physicist, or mathematician or knows what spring rate even is, or how to balance spring rates, or why spring rates must be balanced.

Computing spring constant k for a compression spring that exerts a force F when deformed to length Ldef. Spring constant k is found by inverting Hooke's Law.

Rate of a spring is the change in the force it exerts, divided by change in spring deflection. It is force gradient versus deflection curve. An extension or compression spring has units of force divided by distance, for example lbf/in or N/m. Torsion springs have units of force multiplied by distance divided by angle, such as N•m/rad or ft•lbf/degree. Inverse of spring rate is compliance, that is if a spring has a rate of 10 N/mm, it has a compliance of 0.1 mm/N. stiffness (or rate) of springs in parallel is additive, as is compliance of springs in series.

Also further computation leads to rate, deflection, and load..

Solid Height = (Number of Coils – 0.25) x Wire Diameter
Example, for a spring with 14 coils and a wire diameter of 0.5”, Solid Height calculated as:
Solid Height = (14 – 0.25) x 0.5 = 6.875

Rate= Load (lbs.) ÷ Spring Deflection (in.)
Example, if a spring deflects by 2.75” under a load of 300 lbs with Rate calculated as:
Rate = 300 ÷ 2.75= 109

Deflection = Load (lbs) ÷ Rate
Example, a spring under a load of 300 lbs with a 109 Rate with deflection calculated as:
Deflection = 300 ÷ 109 = 2.75

Load = Deflection x Rate
Example, a spring with a 109 Rate and a 2.75” deflection with load calculated as:
Deflection= 2.75 ÷ 109 = 300

Regards,

Richard


Well then say for example he had calculated everything up, and then he adjusted the damper on the shocks to match.....still with he way he cut the spring it would not have the same bearing surface (nice and round all the way around) against where the top of the spring sits vs the stock spring. So then the LOAD on the spring would not be centered, it would be off to the side, which would lead to the buckling of the spring....which would equal to spring not compressing up and down, but instead it would just bent side to side......

Like I said, Chip went on and designed/engineered one off frame for this car and screwed it all up by cutting the springs at the end.

I don't mind if anyone takes a hacksaw or torch to their springs (coil or leaf). Just don't DRIVE the car..for MY sake..as well as YOURS.

"Willy drank a Beaker, now Willy is no more. What Willy thought was H20, was H2S04."

For those who don't comprehend my poetic Chemistry analogy? Let me put it to you, in really simple English: You do STUPID stuff? Expect to get injured/killed. And possibly injure/kill innocent others. Decimal point.

If the springs are not progressive rate springs, (and depending how much was cut) it might not matter as much as people thing. Right?

Don't cut springs. It kills the ride makes it bouncy like a beachball. Do it right or don't do it at all.

I'm wondering if they just did it to test the look and ended up ordering custom spring sets before releasing the car to the owner. Foose isn't an idiot like that loser fool Dwayne, that Boyd Coddington had running his shop.

BigE

Were any of you Folks in my Statics and Dynamics class? (Spring of 1973, as I vaguely recall.) Anybody in here know what Hooke's Law is? Do you know anything about the "Modulus of Elasticity?" Do you know the (torsional rate) differential between a simple spring and a progressive spring? (Same material is assumed.) Where are minimum and maximum bending moments for each type of spring? :dunno: :scratch:

Draw a Cartesian plot, illustrating the resting state value (unloaded) against the flexed state values (loaded), indicating the inflection point at which the spring will fail. For each (separate) plot, assume an applied temperature of 0 degrees Celsius to 38 degrees Celsius.

Guess I'd better NOT give any "Pop Quiz" today. I'm afraid everyone will FLUNK. All I see is...an ocean of BLANK expressions. :eek: :paranoid:

Quote Robert; “Modulus of Elasticity?”

Mathematical description of a substance (metal) tendency to be deformed elastically (non permanent) when Force is applied to it, i.e. substance moves back to prior form after Force is removed, such as in a spring, “it springs back”.

Elastic Modulus is defined as slope of stress-strain curve in elastic deformation. In structural engineering Greek letter lambda is elastic modulus.

Stress is force causing deformation divided by area to which force is applied. Strain is ratio of change caused by stress to object’s original state. Specifying how stress and strain are measured, including directions, allows for definition of several types of elastic moduli, such as Young’s modulus (E) which describes deformation along an axis when opposing forces are applied along that axis, Shear Modulus (modulus of rigidity G) which describes shear when acted upon by opposing forces, and Bulk Modulus (K) which describes volumetric elasticity. Three other elastic moduli are Poisson’s ratio, Lame’s first parameter, and P-wave modulus. Regards

Richard

Modulus of Elasticity is used by spring designers to mathematically describe and understand structural properties required in material selected to result in an acceptable spring rate, load condition, and stability, from which wire diameter, length, coil, are selected in manufacture of spring. Adding springs or shocks without regard to OEM design specifications or adding springs or shocks which modify original OEM design, without first doing math, can result in an unstable ride at certain speeds, Regards

Richard

Were any of you Folks in my Statics and Dynamics class? (Spring of 1973, as I vaguely recall.) Anybody in here know what Hooke's Law is? Do you know anything about the "Modulus of Elasticity?" Do you know the (torsional rate) differential between a simple spring and a progressive spring? (Same material is assumed.) Where are minimum and maximum bending moments for each type of spring? :dunno: :scratch:

Draw a Cartesian plot, illustrating the resting state value (unloaded) against the flexed state values (loaded), indicating the inflection point at which the spring will fail. For each (separate) plot, assume an applied temperature of 0 degrees Celsius to 38 degrees Celsius.

Guess I'd better NOT give any "Pop Quiz" today. I'm afraid everyone will FLUNK. All I see is...an ocean of BLANK expressions. :eek: :paranoid:


Just took Statics and Dynamics with in the last year or so.....all I remember is Hooke's Law (F=-kx) and Young's Modulus of Elasticity with is definition of elastic region.

I do not see how cutting the spring would have anything to with the change in modulus of elasticity since the material is remaining the same.

Now when we are talking about Hooke's Law....cutting the spring would probably increase the distance the spring has to travel therefore increasing the force that the spring needs to exert to return to its original position, now thats where the elastic limit comes in, if the greater force is with in the elastic limit then the spring will be fine, but if goes past linear deformation and past the max yield strength then bad things can happen.

ZOOM....

The sound of this thread going right over my head...:yes:

Quote 09^CBP^6MT, “ZOOM … sound of this thread going right over my head”

I apologize if we have posted unfamiliar or confusing terms, let me attempt to put this thread in perspective. Design specifications for a spring are result of mathematical calculations for stress, strain, strength of material, ultimate rupture of material, axial load, lateral load, length, cross sectional area, number of coils, and other general properties of material.

Steels are made with varying combinations of alloy metals for many purposes. Steel is composed of varying proportions of iron and carbon, accounts for 90% of steel production. Alloy steels are produced for special purposes such as tooling steel used in cutting, i.e. axes, drills, tools. Steels are hardened and tempered to increase strength.

Selection of steel is first part of decision on what steel should be used in springs. Each material has different physical characteristics and strengths.

Society of Automotive Engineers has a series of grades defining steel types used in automotive manufacturing. American Society for Testing and Materials has a separate set of standards, which define alloy steels such as A36 steel, which is the most commonly used structural steel in the United States. These steel standards can be depended on as being uniform with each grade, so if a designer selects certain steel he can be assured that there is uniformity between production runs of each steel selected.

Second part of spring design are a series of structural formulas used to define criteria for that design, such as load, bending, rate of deflection, spring rate, deformation, etc.

If you purchase new springs and shocks, it would be wise to know design specifications for your own safety. Most importantly is product you select for replacement or your own interpretation of what you think design should be. Anything you choose should be compatible with OEM design specification and design standard.

If you are selecting a product to change your suspension or ‘lower’ your car, and you select then install a suspension system or part of suspension system without understanding OEM design standard, then you risk failure.

If you have spent a significant amount of time researching and understanding impact of your decision to purchase suspension altering equipment which meets or exceeds OEM design standard, then you have met ‘standard of care’. If you have not then you risk failure.

You can use same formulas as equipment designers to be sure they meet a standard of care, Regards

Richard

Just took Statics and Dynamics with in the last year or so.....all I remember is Hooke's Law (F=-kx) and Young's Modulus of Elasticity with is definition of elastic region.

I do not see how cutting the spring would have anything to with the change in modulus of elasticity since the material is remaining the same.

Now when we are talking about Hooke's Law....cutting the spring would probably increase the distance the spring has to travel therefore increasing the force that the spring needs to exert to return to its original position, now thats where the elastic limit comes in, if the greater force is with in the elastic limit then the spring will be fine, but if goes past linear deformation and past the max yield strength then bad things can happen.

No. You're thinking exactly BACKWARDS. In the case of a coil spring, the more coils, the more (compression) flex, and the greater the distance traveled.

Hooke's Law involves an exponential (derivative) function, whereby, as you DECREASE the height (length) of the spring, you correspondingly DECREASE force (compression) and distance (travel). And vice-versa.

Try this simple experiment: Take a ball-point pen spring. Compress it between your fingers. Now, cut it precisely in half, using Dykes pliars. Compress one of the shorter springs between your fingers. Now, WHICH spring (original vs. cut) has more/less travel? WHICH spring requires more/less force to compress? :scratch:

No. You're thinking exactly BACKWARDS. In the case of a coil spring, the more coils, the more (compression) flex, and the greater the distance traveled.

Hooke's Law involves an exponential (derivative) function, whereby, as you DECREASE the height (length) of the spring, you correspondingly DECREASE force (compression) and distance (travel). And vice-versa.

Try this simple experiment: Take a ball-point pen spring. Compress it between your fingers. Now, cut it precisely in half, using Dykes pliars. Compress one of the shorter springs between your fingers. Now, WHICH spring (original vs. cut) has more/less travel? WHICH spring requires more/less force to compress? :scratch:

.....hmmm....:scratch:

I was thinking that in this case, since you cut the length of the spring, and your load is the same, there will be less material resisting the load, therefore it will compress more vs the full spring (Maybe I am assuming that the original spring does not compress the whole way in the first place) in relation to the original spring height.

I see what you are saying about the pen spring, but it involves compressing the spring the whole spring.....it is kind of obvious that the shorter spring will have to travel less to compress the whole way.

.....hmmm....:scratch:

I was thinking that in this case, since you cut the length of the spring, and your load is the same, there will be less material resisting the load, therefore it will compress more vs the full spring (Maybe I am assuming that the original spring does not compress the whole way in the first place) in relation to the original spring height.

I see what you are saying about the pen spring, but it involves compressing the spring the whole spring.....it is kind of obvious that the shorter spring will have to travel less to compress the whole way.

For now, skip the Math and Physics. Just use your eyeballs, fingers, and common sense....with that ordinary ball-point pen spring.

A TWENTY-coil spring has MORE coils to compress than (e.g.) a TEN-coil spring. Hence, the distance the LONGER spring has to travel is MORE, and the force required to compress it is MORE. MORE coils = MORE distance (travel) and MORE force. WE are assuming a SIMPLE spring, NOT a progressively-wound spring. Okay?

Quote *******: "For now, skip the Math and Physics. Just use your eyeballs, fingers, and common sense....with that ordinary ball-point pen spring ... A TWENTY-coil spring has MORE coils to compress than (e.g.) a TEN-coil spring. Hence, the distance the LONGER spring has to travel is MORE, and the force required to compress it is MORE. MORE coils = MORE distance (travel) and MORE force. WE are assuming a SIMPLE spring, NOT a progressively-wound spring. Okay?"

Simple elegant explanation decimal point, Regards

Richard

For now, skip the Math and Physics. Just use your eyeballs, fingers, and common sense....with that ordinary ball-point pen spring.

A TWENTY-coil spring has MORE coils to compress than (e.g.) a TEN-coil spring. Hence, the distance the LONGER spring has to travel is MORE, and the force required to compress it is MORE. MORE coils = MORE distance (travel) and MORE force. WE are assuming a SIMPLE spring, NOT a progressively-wound spring. Okay?

But to compress a twenty coil spring of the same material/diameter to the max requires more force then to compress a ten coil spring of the same material/diameter as the 20 coil spring.

Therefore if you keep the force the same :dunno:..........I just cannot visualize this in given situation.

But to compress a twenty coil spring of the same material/diameter to the max requires more force than to compress a ten coil spring of the same material/diameter as the 20 coil spring.

Therefore if you keep the force the same :dunno:..........I just cannon visualize this in given situation.

That is EXACTLY what I stated. :yes:

Do you have a ball-point pen handy? If so, remove the spring and try my suggested experiment. It's easier than falling off a log. :)

In structural engineering Greek letter lambda is elastic modulus.



I don't think I have ever heard of the modulus elasticity represented by lambda. I've always seen it represented as E. :dunno:

That is EXACTLY what I stated. :yes:

Do you have a ball-point pen handy? If so, remove the spring and try my suggested experiment. It's easier than falling off a log. :)

Alright, so if you would apply the same force to the ten and twenty coil springs wouldn't the ten coil spring compress more? (Again, assuming that the springs are made out of the same material and have identical diameters)

But yet gain if using Hooke's Law they should compress the same since the force and constant stay equal.

I would assume that the car is meant to be a show-off kind of car, and not a daily driver. Which is why I guess the builders thought it acceptable to take a shortcut like cutting springs.

Quote slayerfanb86: “don't think I have ever heard of the modulus elasticity represented by lambda. I've always seen it represented as E”

Inverse of Modulus of Elasticity is E

Modulus of elasticity can be defined as the ratio of stress to strain and it is often denoted as lambda. Small lambda is used for the eigenvalue of a matrix, mean and variance of a Poisson distribution, and also for modulus of elasticity

Alternative definition Finance: Lambda is ratio of a change in option price to a small change in option volatility. It is partial derivative of the option price with respect to option volatility.
Source http://www.nytimes.com/library/financial
Regards

Richard

Quote slayerfanb86:

Inverse of Modulus of Elasticity is E

Modulus of elasticity can be defined as the ratio of stress to strain and it is often denoted as lambda. Small lambda is used for the eigenvalue of a matrix, mean and variance of a Poisson distribution, and also for modulus of elasticity

Alternative definition Finance: Lambda is ratio of a change in option price to a small change in option volatility. It is partial derivative of the option price with respect to option volatility.
Source http://www.nytimes.com/library/financial
Regards

Richard

The modulus of elasticity is the same as Young's modulus and is denoted as E in structural engineering. E is the slope on the stress strain diagram. I just noticed that according to wikipedia, lambda denotes stress over strain, but i have never seen this used in structural engineering.

No disrespect, just my experiences.

The modulus of elasticity is the same as Young's modulus and is denoted as E in structural engineering. E is the slope on the stress strain diagram. I just noticed that according to wikipedia, lambda denotes stress over strain, but i have never seen this used in structural engineering.

No disrespect, just my experiences.
Agreed.

Along with screwing up the spring rate, I thought when you cut the "coiled" top (or bottom) off the springs it goes from, spreading the weight evenly amoung the coil, to haveing all the cars weight only on one small square inch of spring (the nub that is left). I thought this was the most dangerous part.

If you just cut off an inch of height, I wouldnt think it would go from riding smooth to bottoming out all of a sudden. You would loose a little travel (obviously) and you wouldnt increase the spring tension, but I have never come close to bottoming out a stock spring/shock setup before...

I also thought if you wanted to go the cheap route...tourching them is better. When you heat the metal up you change its spring/elastic properties. With this method you still keep the coiled top and bottom to support the cars weight and you also make them stiffer after they go from scolding hot back to cold again. But on the flip side, if you heat them too much and they get too stiff you could always crack them which could be deadly.

Along with screwing up the spring rate, I thought when you cut the "coiled" top (or bottom) off the springs it goes from, spreading the weight evenly amoung the coil, to haveing all the cars weight only on one small square inch of spring (the nub that is left). I thought this was the most dangerous part.

If you just cut off an inch of height, I wouldnt think it would go from riding smooth to bottoming out all of a sudden. You would loose a little travel (obviously) and you wouldnt increase the spring tension, but I have never come close to bottoming out a stock spring/shock setup before...

I also thought if you wanted to go the cheap route...tourching them is better. When you heat the metal up you change its spring/elastic properties. With this method you still keep the coiled top and bottom to support the cars weight and you also make them stiffer after they go from scolding hot back to cold again. But on the flip side, if you heat them too much and they get too stiff you could always crack them which could be deadly.

Well then say for example he had calculated everything up, and then he adjusted the damper on the shocks to match.....still with he way he cut the spring it would not have the same bearing surface (nice and round all the way around) against where the top of the spring sits vs the stock spring. So then the LOAD on the spring would not be centered, it would be off to the side, which would lead to the buckling of the spring....which would equal to spring not compressing up and down, but instead it would just bent side to side......

...

Maybe they don't teach kids SCIENCE in the K-12 process anymore. Since I graduated from college so long ago, I really don't know what they teach there, either. :dunno:

Perhaps READING books has become an obsolete, "Elitist" activity? Perhaps television, computers, video games, and other IMAGE-based devices have become the ultimate teaching tools? :scratch:

At any rate, I often think this country is DEAD. It just hasn't figured it out, yet. :paranoid:

Maybe they don't teach kids SCIENCE in the K-12 process anymore. Since I graduated from college so long ago, I really don't know what they teach there, either. :dunno:

Perhaps READING books has become an obsolete, "Elitist" activity? Perhaps television, computers, video games, and other IMAGE-based devices have become the ultimate teaching tools? :scratch:

At any rate, I think this country is DEAD. It just hasn't figured it out, yet. :paranoid:

Where do you get these insights from? :dunno:

I'm 24 years old, I took physics in high school, I'm halfway through my masters degree in structural engineering, I love to play video games and watch TV, and I read books religiously because I love to read.

Where do you get these insights from? :dunno:

I'm 24 years old, I took physics in high school, I'm halfway through my masters degree in structural engineering, I love to play video games and watch TV, and I read books religiously because I love to read.

As I stated, I honestly don't know what kids are TAUGHT in school, nowadays. Or what kids TAKE in school, nowadays. :dunno:

However, per what I've observed in this (and various other) thread, it seems there is no shortage of those who practice BAD SCIENCE. I can only suspect ignorance and stupidity as the root cause. :scratch:

As I stated, I honestly don't know what kids are TAUGHT in school, nowadays. Or what kids TAKE in school, nowadays. :dunno:

However, per what I've observed in this (and various other) thread, it seems there is no shortage of those who practice BAD SCIENCE. I can only suspect ignorance and stupidity as the root cause. :scratch:

I guess I can't argue with the BAD science comment. It's not about what is taught. It's about what people choose to learn and retain. I have met countless engineering students who don't have the first clue on how to do a simple design that is different from examples given in class. Critical thinking has become a rare commodity in the world of engineering due to computers.

Luckily, we have to take classes like Stability of Structures which requires us to perform analysis by hand that others use computers for. This weekend I have to analyze a moment frame by hand using the Stiffness Method of analysis. It's not pretty, but it has to be done to appreciate what others take for granted.

As I stated, I honestly don't know what kids are TAUGHT in school, nowadays. Or what kids TAKE in school, nowadays. :dunno:

However, per what I've observed in this (and various other) thread, it seems there is no shortage of those who practice BAD SCIENCE. I can only suspect ignorance and stupidity as the root cause. :scratch:


WTF man, with all do respect to your age......

What would you define as bad science? Asking questions? I disregard all your comments about the "what do these kids learn these days" but do thank you for putting this spring question into perspective.

WTF man, with all do respect to your age......

What would you define as bad science? Asking questions? I disregard all your comments about the "what do these kids learn these days" but do thank you for putting this spring question into perspective.

It looks like I'm not the only one who was somewhat offended.

Where do you get these insights from? :dunno:

I'm 24 years old, I took physics in high school, I'm halfway through my masters degree in structural engineering, I love to play video games and watch TV, and I read books religiously because I love to read.

Hey I am also in the Structural Design program. I am @ Penn State, they do not offer masters here...

Which school are you at?

Hey I am also in the Structural Design program. I am @ Penn State, they do not offer masters here...

Which school are you at?

Cal Poly Pomona. My professors from undergrad are mad at me because I had the grades to go to Stanford or Berkeley, but I have life down here and a great job. And I figure I can finish as the valedictorian if I try hard enough. I should be getting my PE this year too.

Cal Poly Pomona. My professors from undergrad are mad at me because I had the grades to go to Stanford or Berkeley, but I have life down here and a great job. And I figure I can finish as the valedictorian if I try hard enough. I should be getting my PE this year too.

Awesome!

I do not have luxury of going to school full time. I work full time for a steel and precast concrete erection company, so I only go to school part time......I do not think I will have patience for anything other then Bachelors Degree.

Awesome!

I do not have luxury of going to school full time. I work full time for a steel and precast concrete erection company, so I only go to school part time......I do not think I will have patience for anything other then Bachelors Degree.

To be a practicing structural engineer, it is really important to get a masters. You can do without, but there is so much that they do not teach you in undergrad because they feel it will be too much information. I work 32 hours a week and take two classes(which is full time for grad school) and it really isn't too bad. The advanced engineering mathematics that I had to take last quarter was horrible though. It was like I was working two jobs. But this quarter is really easy with Stability of Structures and Prestressed Concrete Design.

See I am leaning toward project management side of engineering, I do not know about your school, but in mine your senior year you have 2 options: Construction Management or Design.

With what i am doing right now, and being the person that I am, I think management is more of a fit for me.

We have construction management as a completely different major. My degree is in Civil Engineering with an emphasis in Structural Engineering.

For ANYONE who is compelled to pose the question "What is practicing BAD SCIENCE?"

That person CANNOT possibly comprehend the answer.

My tenant, a high-school dropout, once asked me, "WHY do you like to READ so much? How come you love BOOKS?" I calmly replied, "So I didn't end up...like YOU." :D

"The strong take from the weak, and the SMART take from both the strong and the weak." :D

SDCET = Structural Design Construction Engineering Technology.

Is a Technology degree but I still need Steel/Concrete design, structural analysis, dynamics, etc......plus some management courses like scheduling, estimating, etc

*******.....you remind me of my Physics professor in college....once before the final exam he said:

"Well, if it took me 15 min to solve the test, then you should be able to solve it in 2.5 hrs"

My physics professor said..."The last problem on the test that I gave you can only be solved by myself, god, and nathan." Nathan was the valedictorian for Electrical Engineering and Aerospace Engineering, getting both degrees in 4 years, at the same time.

My physics professor said..."The last problem on the test that I gave you can only be solved by myself, god, and nathan." Nathan was the valedictorian for Electrical Engineering and Aerospace Engineering, getting both degrees in 4 years, at the same time.

I guess you have to be a complete as*hole to teach physics world wide....very interesting......

But you know what I loved physics because of my professor, I still stop by and talk to him once in a while.

My tenant, a high-school dropout, once asked me, "WHY do you like to READ so much? How come you love BOOKS?" I calmly replied, "So I didn't end up...like YOU." :D

:D

harsh much?

harsh much?

I can suppose Mr. Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft Corporation, is one of my favorite heroes. Aside from him being the RICHEST man on Earth, he also has a very short fuse, unable to "suffer fools." His often comment is, "That is the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard of!" :rant:

"Nobody likes an a$$hole, but nice guys finish last." DEAD LAST.

I can suppose Mr. Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft Corporation, is one of my favorite heroes. Aside from him being the RICHEST man on Earth, he also has a very short fuse, unable to "suffer fools." His often comment is, "That is the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard of!" :rant:

"Nobody likes an a$$hole, but nice guys finish last." DEAD LAST.

Being condescending is could for anyone.

"My way of thinking is determined by quotes I have read."

I did not read every word in this thread.

It is ok to cut your springs.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n279/peperry/CutSprings.jpg

(run for cover) :paranoid:

* if you know what you are really doing.

Quote GoLowDrew: “I did not read every word in this thread … It is ok to cut your springs … * if you know what you are really doing.”

If you cut springs on your car, then reinstalled shortened springs, you have just created a suicide machine. Good luck, but do not count on me sending flowers to your funeral, Regards

Richard

I did not read every word in this thread.

It is ok to cut your springs.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n279/peperry/CutSprings.jpg

(run for cover) :paranoid:

* if you know what you are really doing.

I wonder if there is any engineering behind this...Looks like metric mechanic Inc is legit, but IDK if they are certified engineers.

Cutting springs got it's bad name because people who do it want to kiss the ground. 9 out of 10 over do it. That may be the case in Overhauling because it's for show purpose.

I will not do it myself - because I don't have the tools or know what I'm doing. But people have been doing it for many years in the name of performance, not rice.

We can discourage it, but not discount it.