Hello everyone,

Has anyone placed a K and N filter in their accord?.. If so, was there much of a performance change...

Any pros / cons to installing these filters?

Also .. what about synthetic oil? such Duralube etc,, pros/cons?

cheers

K&N fipk's have been shown to increase horsepower. In a dyno test done recently on a ford 5.4 L it increased horsepower by 7 HP. Cold air intake systems seem to have the best performance so having your FIPK duct cold air from outside the engine compartment makes a big diff. You could get a million diff. answers on oil. I use syn. in my work truck because of extreme driving conditions, high milage between changes and extended idling. The accord will prob. stay with dino simply because it does not need the extra break down resistance of a syn. oil. Change it regularly and you'll be O.K. no matter which you use

thanks pepsco!... i heard it increases horsepower as well... up to at least 10 hp..

:D

addmittedly I know nothing about filters... but I do have a question: If your car is all computer controlled, then how would any difference be made by increasing the air flow? I know that the computer will change to what it needs for different elevations. So if you do anything that changes the ratio of air, wouldn't the computer compensate?

from what i hear it increses air flow so you will get better throttle response BUT as for horsepower it might add like 1 or 2 whp. if you want best performance gains then i'd put that 40-50 dollars toward an intake system.
as for engine oils. i currently use castrol GTX (non synthetic) oil... i will continue to change my oil every 3000 miles until i've hit 12,000 miles so that i can thorougly break in my motor. after i've done that i will go synthetic and change my oil every 5000 miles due to the fact that with synthetic oil you can go longer w/o an oil change.

I was refering to a complete intake kit. The air filter itself would only provide marginal gains if any. Anything that helps an engine breath better will increase performance. If you get more air into the engine easier then you don't have to put your foot down on the gas as much. With more air the computer will of course put more fuel ( it is designed to keep the A/F at the optimal 14.7 - 1) More mixture in the cylinders creates more power. That is why most performance mods include both intake and exhaust enhancements. The horse power gains are always a point of contention. The manufactures claim one thing and then someone will go spend the money to dyno a car and find out something diff. the power gains I quoted were from an article done comparing three different FIPK ( fuel injection performance kits) and there net horsepower gain.

wow... since i know jack about filters and perfomance stuff.. its nice to read from those who do...

on second thought,, i am going to leave my car OEM :D

Originally posted by princess
... but I do have a question: If your car is all computer controlled, then how would any difference be made by increasing the air flow?

There are many things to consider but at a basic level the computer will recognize the increase in air flow via the mass air flow sensor. It will then increase the amount of fuel delivered accordingly. More air + more fuel = more horesepower.

So you'd have to pick just the right combination of changes to still let the computer do it's job. Thanks Ward.

It was sure easier in the "old" days! Put a reliable quadrajet on there, high rise manifold & a great pair of headers... of course they got 6 MPG!! My daddy used to say that prince's would pass anything except for a gas station!

I'm really glad I went with the V6. The changes Honda did with it made it a whole new engine over last year's. :D

We use Honda oil filters because they have a check valve in them that reduces the chances of the dirt getting back into the clean oil. We use Castrol GTX oil. There's lots of good ones out there. Just stay away from Penzoil, it's parafin based & breaks down the fastest. We stay with the Honda tranny fluid. I don't think that matters much, as long as it's changed often. There's no filtering system on the new automatics. The air filters are also Honda, they just seem to fit better. Over the years we have noticed that Hondas really hate champion & autolite sparkplugs. We used NGK. We have heard great things about the platnium plugs.

I have to disagree about "staying away" from the Penzoil.
Of all the UOAs (Used Oil Analysis) I've seen on the 5w20 weight dino oils, Penzoil's has been one of the best. It has experienced very little shearing and has a good dose of Moly in it.

Most all of the 5w20s are really dino/syn blends, they just aren't all marketed as such. Check the Motocraft 5w20 bottle, and it says it's a blend. They are all made w/ better quality basestocks than conventional dino oils.

I plan on using the penz 5w20 as soon as I change the factory fill.

I'm just going by experience with MANY Hondas. :)

Years ago Honda actually recommended Castrol, but the gov. stopped allowing that.

Ever since Pennzoils "Pure Base" conventional oil hit the market their base oil has been "Group2+" and as of "SL" Grade they have moly added into the brew for antiwear. Most of the problems people had with Pennz was long ago (60's/70"s) and probably had more to do with internal engine problems than with the oil. It's not a concern today. In fact, as Bean stated, it does very well in oil analysis. If you really want to do some research, go to this site Bobistheoilguy (http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=3).

The currently favored otc (over the counter) conventional oils by these members are Pennzoil, Chevron Supreme, and Castrol GTX. BTW lots of members on this site are chemists, oil specialists and chemical engineers, not your run of the mill user posts.

I used Pennz 5w20 for the first 15K during break-in, then changed to Mobil1 5/10w30 for the next 90K. I'm currently back using Pennz this last change because Walmart upped the 5qt jug of M1 to $22.44. Last year it was $17.88 during promotions and this year it became a shelved item at $18.88. I'll stock up again once the price falls:)
________
MK-Motorsport (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/MK-Motorsport)

Very interesting site! Thanks!

Exactly, A2M...

That's where I've been reading all about the 5w20s for the last month or so.
They are really looking like good oils!

I usually use a heavier oil because of the heat down here in the summer, but since the really hot weather is finished I'll use this 5w20 change for 3-3.5K are so. By then I hope the M1 jugs are marked down again.

Since I'm well out of warranty and I can't imagine doing 6-7.5K intervals with the conventional stuff, I'll continue to use the M1 30W stuff when available at good prices.

I just bought a DC Sports Cold Air Intake. It has a K&N filter on the end and I am told will increase my accord 4cyl by 7 to 9 Wheel Horse Power!! I just came in yesterday and it is raining today :( . So I will have to wait and see if there is a noticable gain in the car. They do have a chart from a dyno test with the CAI combined with their header. http://www.dcsports.com/images/dyno/03-accord-combined.jpg

Hope this helps, and I will let everyone know how the car is if I can ever get this thing installed.

7-9 wheel Horsepower is a bit doubtful from a CAI alone on a 4cyl engine, I believe. But you might still notice a difference, especially in the intake air volume at higher RPM's.
________
Toyota Origin history (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_Origin)

Has anyone placed a K and N filter in their accord?.. If so, was there much of a performance change...

K&N or any type of intake system...not just filter is just the begining of the benefits. You won't see any mpg increase in reality. Throttle response will be great up top. In fact on the VTEC motors, most of the gains felt will be in the 4800rpm and up range when the hi-cam kicks in.

The best bet next would be to use a Greddy E-Manage system to make edits to the Air-Fuel settings and VTEC Settings as well. Our cars dyno to the wheels at about 195hp bone stock. Adding an intake isn't going to change much alone, but with tuning and a good cold air intake, gains of 25hp or so are easy.

I've had mine done and will be working on a good downpipe for the exhaust shortly.

Again, the motors have potential, but of course from the factory, they are tuned for MPG not necessarily performance. I sacraficed a bit of MPG's, but the gains are now noticeable. I lowered my VTEC to 4600rpm like the new TL's which buys me more mid range and a little better top end in the 1/4mi runs. However, tuning the fuel and air intakes was most noticable.

OK Here is the skinny on K&N filters, but only because you asked...

Performance and mileage increases aside I install K&N Air Filters on all my vehicles for the following reasons (The following information has been taken directly from K&N's website).

K&N filters consist of four to six sheets of cotton gauze layered between two sheets of aluminum wire mesh. This media is then pleated and oiled to enhance its filtering capabilities and overall performance. The result is an air filter that allows dramatically more air into an engine, is washable and reusable, and will protect your engine for the life of your vehicle.

To meet minimum filtration standards, paper air filters must be thick and/or the fibers must be tightly compressed and dense. Therefore paper elements that provide adequate filtration are more restrictive to air flow by design. Additionally, as a paper filter becomes more and more clogged, the pressure inside the filter drops while the atmospheric air pressure (approximately 14.7 psia at sea level) outside the filter remains the same. It’s like using your lungs to draw the air out of a plastic milk bottle. When the pressure differential becomes too great, the bottle will collapse. The same thing could happen to your paper filter, although it is unlikely. But what will happen could be just as severe. An excessively high pressure differential created by a restricted filter can literally pull dirt particles through the paper medium. In other words, the performance of a paper filter, i.e. air flow through the filter and its ability to protect your engine, DECREASES near the end of its service interval.

The K&N air filter is somewhat more complex. The unique design features multiple layers of oiled cotton fabric which captures the airborne dirt particles. These dirt particles cling to the fibers of the filter and actually become part of the filtering media. This process, known as depth loading, allows the K&N air filter to retain significantly more dirt per square inch than a paper filter. The cotton fabric is sandwiched between pleated aluminum screeum filtration standards, paper air filters must be thick and/or the fibers must be tightly compressed and dense. Therefore paper elements that provide adequate filtration are more restrictive to air flow by design. Additionally, as a paper filter becomes more and more clogged, the pressure inside the filter drops while the atmospheric air pressure (approximately 14.7 psia at sea level) outside the filter remains the same. It’s like using your lungs to draw the air out of a plastic milk bottle. When the pressure differential becomes too great, the bottle will collapse. The same thing could happen to your paper filter, although it is unlikely. But what will happen could be just as severe. An excessively high pressure differential created by a restricted filter can literally pull dirt particles through the paper medium. In other words, the performance of a paper filter, i.e. air flow through the filter and its ability to protect your engine, DECREASES near the end of its service interval.

The K&N air filter is somewhat more complex. The unique design features multiple layers of oiled cotton fabric which captures the airborne dirt particles. These dirt particles cling to the fibers of the filter and actually become part of the filtering media. This process, known as depth loading, allows the K&N air filter to retain significantly more dirt per square inch than a paper filter. The cotton fabric is sandwiched between pleated aluminum screen. Pleating increases surface area which in turn prolongs service intervals. Pleating exposes substantially more surface area compared to a flat element like foam. (Most paper elements are also pleated - Kalbo).

The dirt particles collected on the surface of a K&N element have little effect on air flow during much of its service life because there are no small holes to clog. Particles are stopped by layers of crisscrossed cotton fibers and held in suspension by the oil. As the filter begins to collect debris, an additional form of filter action begins to take place because air must first pass through the dirt particles trapped on the surface. That means a K&N air filter continues to exhibit high air flow throughout the life of the filter while it is accumulating dirt. At the same time, the air flow for an average paper air filter can decrease dramatically as the paper element gets dirty. So as dirt accumulates, the performance advantages of a K&N air filter can increase!

If you want to know even more (and there is tons of it) go to K&N's website http://www.knfilters.com/facts.htm

Oil?

I changed to Mobil One 5w-30 at 10,000 miles.

I asked about 5w-20 at Kragen Auto Parts and the Store Manager was not aware of any available to them yet.

I keep change intervals simple, every 5,000 miles, easy to remember on the odometer.

The slightly higher weight is probably a good thing anyways given the driving conditions (Hn. Pleating increases surface area which in turn prolongs service intervals. Pleating exposes substantially more surface area compared to a flat element like foam. (Most paper elements are also pleated - Kalbo).

The dirt particles collected on the surface of a K&N element have little effect on air flow during much of its service life because there are no small holes to clog. Particles are stopped by layers of crisscrossed cotton fibers and held in suspension by the oil. As the filter begins to collect debris, an additional form of filter action begins to take place because air must first pass through the dirt particles trapped on the surface. That means a K&N air filter continues to exhibit high air flow throughout the life of the filter while it is accumulating dirt. At the same time, the air flow for an average paper air filter can decrease dramatically as the paper element gets dirty. So as dirt accumulates, the performance advantages of a K&N air filter can increase!

If you want to know even more (and there is tons of it) go to K&N's website http://www.knfilters.com/facts.htm

Oil?

I changed to Mobil One 5w-30 at 10,000 miles.

I asked about 5w-20 at Kragen Auto Parts and the Store Manager was not aware of any available to them yet.

I keep change intervals simple, every 5,000 miles, easy to remember on the odometer.

The slightly higher weight is probably a good thing anyways given the driving conditions (Heat) we have here in Sunny Southern California.

wow! thanks for the very thorough and informative reply!
;)

Well I did finally install my DC Sports CAI, and now that I have read the post from pshivers I am glad to know that my engine is more protected. I am not sure that I have found any increase in performance on the car from installing my cold air intake, but man does it sound good!!! The only downside to this whole thing is that I have found that after installation my foot seems to have gotten a lot heavier :).

I would like to just say that I have had my accord for one year now, and I still enjoy getting in and driving it. What a beautiful car!

Hmmmmmm,

I'm trying to figure out how my reply got doubled up in a couple of places.... :confused:

It's not the way I typed it:( at least I don't think its the way I typed it, but I do suffer from CRS...

:D

Some things are worth saying more then once!!

addmittedly I know nothing about filters... but I do have a question: If your car is all computer controlled, then how would any difference be made by increasing the air flow? I know that the computer will change to what it needs for different elevations. So if you do anything that changes the ratio of air, wouldn't the computer compensate?

that is exactly rite.

Im no Honda guru (yet), but ive done my fair share of modding my last 3 Nissan/Infiniti products. Every new car out there is controlled by an ECU. By changing components to increase air flow, such as intake, exhuast and headers, you will NEVER feel the real benifits unless you get some sort of an ECU reflash or a piggy back. With the reflash or piggy back, you can fine tune the computer for all of the new mods and adjust the A/F ratios to compensate.

Alot of people will put mods on, and notice that after 50 miles or so that they feel a loss in power. This is because the computers is readjusting itself to work back to factory spec. Disconnect your battery for 10 mins, and drive it and you will notice it feels a little better, but still nothing like a tune will give you.

Alot of breathing mods will actually end up giving you a loss of power as well. Intakes for one, I always stand behind because the sound they give off alone is worth the money, especially a true CAI. You will however sacrafice some low rpm torque when installing one, but gain a few hp in the upper RPM band. If you a buying an intake for performance alone you are truely wasting your money. Most intakes actually make you lose torque, especially CAI's due to the long tubing. Stock air boxes are designed pretty damn well these days for optimum air flow.

Im not saying there isnt room for improvement, because there always is. But on my 05 maxima for example. Bone stock the car would peel out for a good 25 feet. After I put intake, exhuast, y pipe, and headers I seriosly could barely peel out for 5 feet. Some due to loss of backpressure from the exhuast products, so i lost big torque. After I did my reflash, the car became a beast, and I put that 4 door 3600 family sedan into a 14.012 @ 99.7 mph 1/4 mile time.

At the end of the day, im a perfomance mod freak. I do miss my last 07 g35S with 306 hp and a 6mt because out of the box the car was a beast. But I do love my accord, and i sure love what its doing to my pockets lol.

wow just noticed this thread was so friggin old...wat the hell was it doin on page 1 lolll

:dunno:They're supposed to get put on the "front page" when somethings been added, not by the age of the original thread. Still good info since many go this route.

It makes sense that you'd need to do something with the computer to get the car to accept the changes. :yes:

:dunno:They're supposed to get put on the "front page" when somethings been added, not by the age of the original thread. Still good info since many go this route.

It makes sense that you'd need to do something with the computer to get the car to accept the changes. :yes:

yea i know that...but the last post on top of mine was from 2004 lollll :dunno:

i must have clicked 51 instead of 1 ;p

I had bought a K&N air filter for my 96 accord a few years back and I know that it did give me more power since the engine was able to breath easier and it also made the engine sound a bit more sportier!

I have one that I only had in my car for a couple weeks (it did make a difference in sound and power) I will sell it to you for $25 shipped, or to anyone else that is.

K&N filter ****s, just search the net and you will find articles wehre they dont filter crap

I had bought a K&N air filter for my 96 accord a few years back and I know that it did give me more power since the engine was able to breath easier and it also made the engine sound a bit more sportier!

maybe its the sound of dirty particles going to your engine

oh yea, heres the proof

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

paper filter is the best, stick with oem

Well thats some interesting reading, got bored after a few sentences( and I do agree with haiyter.)... If you want a less restrictve filter then go with the K&N, and if you have any service problems with your car just make sure to replace back to the OEM filter before getting your car checked out.

Just go the CAI AEM V2, I have this and if you want power with a wicked sound then this should be your set up. Didnt read wether or not you have a manual or not, but IMO a CAI is for manuals.

Well thats some interesting reading, got bored after a few sentences( and I do agree with haiyter.)... If you want a less restrictve filter then go with the K&N, and if you have any service problems with your car just make sure to replace back to the OEM filter before getting your car checked out.

Just go the CAI AEM V2, I have this and if you want power with a wicked sound then this should be your set up. Didnt read wether or not you have a manual or not, but IMO a CAI is for manuals.

How is a CAI for manuals any more than they are for autos? That makes no sense.

How is a CAI for manuals any more than they are for autos? That makes no sense.

i think he meant to say a cai works better with mtx than auto

i think he meant to say a cai works better with mtx than auto

again, that makes no sense and is definately not the case. better airflow is better airflow, the transmission type is irrelevant.

its a fact that autos dont react as well as maunuals, therefor maximum gains are going to be shown on a manual (dyno proven Look @ the charts online!) There are gains to be had in a auto with cai I just dont see, feel, or hear them as well IMHO.

The real point I was trying to make was....you shouldnt worry about the K&N filter just get a freakin CAI and call it a day (no offense to you short ram guys lol!)

its a fact that autos dont react as well as maunuals, therefor maximum gains are going to be shown on a manual (dyno proven Look @ the charts online!) There are gains to be had in a auto with cai I just dont see, feel, or hear them as well IMHO.

The real point I was trying to make was....you shouldnt worry about the K&N filter just get a freakin CAI and call it a day (no offense to you short ram guys lol!)

That's just due to the torque converter eating up your power, but that would be the same for any performance-type mod.

I had my typhoon configured as a short ram for a while. It made cool sounds, and gave a bit more power for the first 15-20 minutes of driving, though after that it seemed like there was very slightly less power than w/ the stock airbox. Not that I'm suprised really. I'd still go sri before I went back to stock though, I like the way it looks and sounds better, call me vain.

That's just due to the torque converter eating up your power, but that would be the same for any performance-type mod.

I had my typhoon configured as a short ram for a while. It made cool sounds, and gave a bit more power for the first 15-20 minutes of driving, though after that it seemed like there was very slightly less power than w/ the stock airbox. Not that I'm suprised really. I'd still go sri before I went back to stock though, I like the way it looks and sounds better, call me vain.

I just converted my typhoon to short ram for the winter. The temperatures have fallen lately, close to 0oC or 32oF. I suspect that when the engine gets warm and the air temperature isn't at the freeken freezing point then you experience loss of power, as you describe. Before the engine gets really hot I guess all is good. Perpahs next summer I'll convert to short ram and see if I experience the same as you.

By the way, I haven't decided if I keep it short ram all winter long or go back to the stock box that also has a k&n filter that seems to be ok.

well idont know about you people but i do know k&n filters dont filter $hit. yes, it does have provide better airflow and that "magical" sound. but i rather have clean air going into my engine and make my car last a life time than killing my engine and not even noticing a 2hp difference