TYTALEX
01-18-2006, 08:45 PM
04-06 ACCORD V6- MISFIRE,SHUTTER,SLIP, ETC.
ALL 2004-2006 ACCORD V6 OWNERS SHOULD READ THIS CLOSELY
ALL you do NOT have a tranny problem! You have a standard case of Honda ignoring their customers to the fullest extent. I too have a 2005 Honda Accord and experience the same problem, along with a few others which I will mention later. Open loop programming is the problem. This is a major problem because you have to go deep into your wallet and aftermarket parts in order to correct the issue yourself.
2005 Accord V6 owners should imediately write to Honda customer service and your applicable Attorney general because it is my opinion that this issue will be a direct reflection on the longivity of your Accord.
I am an X mechanic with 10 years in the business and though I've been out for some time, I do know what I'm talking about.
Here goes:
COLD- Defined as coolant temperature, Vehicle has been off for roughly 3 hours, in cold regions this can be greatly reduced. The colder the outside air temperature the worse the condition and longer the duration.
PROBLEM DESCRIPTION- Lean misfire. Open loop programming is to lean (High Air/Fuel Ratio). Too little fuel being delivered to the engine at cold outside temperature in order to run properly. The colder it is outside the more fuel required to meet the demand, which is why colder regions would see this issue more.
OPEN LOOP PROGRAMMING- Preset parameters used in cold operation. Once coolant temperature reaches a set temperature the vehicle enters CLOSED LOOP PROGRAMMING in which it adjusts to reality.
DUPLICATION- This misfire can be directly identified by starting your car and driving slowly until 20mph when the car shifts into 3rd gear, ease off the throttle and slowly re-apply. You will find that the engine progressively begins to misfire until the point it quits. You can back out and find that there is a throttle position range in which the issue is found to be worse. This range is a very average driving range in which makes this issue even more severe. 3rd gear isn't a must to notice the condition but definitely brings out the worse. The car naturally shifts into 3rd at 20mph under very light acceleration anyway. Issue is contained in the TPS range and is generally not limited by speed with the exception that you are usually a little deeper in the throttle on higher paced roads.
Honda's first attempt to fix my problem- Honda has not seen anything like this, but the IDLE LEARN procedure was done incorrectly. Corrected.
RESULT- NO CHANGE
Honda's second attempt to fix my problem- Next day. Honda has had ton's of complaints about this issue and it is FUEL CONDITION related. Amazingly they also have the solution! I disagreed to every extent but allowed them the opportunity to prove me wrong. Fuel drained, replenished and trunk ruined (It's ok to drain fuel from the trunk without any precatious measures right!! A complete novel of it's own.)
RESULT- NO CHANGE
Honda's third attempt to fix my problem- Cannot duplicate
RESULT- NEW DEALER REQUIRED as current wouldn't attempt to diagnose further after they had to strip, repaint and benzene test the car just to ensure safe caustic levels of fuel were'nt still present after the 31 days they had it.
Honda's fourth attempt to fix my problem- New dealer! Test drove and collected all necessary scanner data to supply to Honda tech support (was also done at the 1st attempt above). Dealer mechanic and service writer agreed the issue was not normal and should be addressed. Before leaving I notified them that I would like to drive another new 05 V6 to prove what I though was to be a common issue and not directly related to my car only.
RESULT- New 05 V6 on the lot has the same issue as expected. I was told that they would continue to work the issue with Honda Tech support in order to bring resolve and they had 3 cars to work with so mine wasn't necessary. I took my car and awaited the results.
UPDATED RESULTS- This is a DESIGN FEATURE of your car. Yes they said FEATURE. They were still looking into other options in order to gain some clout.
UPDATED RESULTS- Dealer stated that he felt like and @#$#@ having to tell me that Honda would like to recall their statement and instead call it a DESIGN CHARACTERISTIC. Honda is not willing to persue the issue any further.
REQUEST ISSUED TO HONDA CUSTOMER SERVICE- Define the DESIGN CHARACTERISTIC OF MY CAR IN HONDA TERMS, as I have seemingly had to put the words in Honda's mouths with agreement but no admittance of failure. NO RETURN FROM HONDA
WE ALL NEED TO HELP PUSH THIS ISSUE IN ORDER FOR HONDA TO BRING US A NEW TUNING CODE FOR OUR ACCORDS.
This issue is not completely limited to OPEN loop programming as some detonation/misfire is also observed during CLOSED loop operation.
05 V6 Vehicles also exhibit a rough idle after a highway jaunt (sitting at the offramp stoplight). This would also be a programming issue.
Detonation is one of the most damaging issues an engine could experience under normal driving conditions and should be prevented at all costs. Honda has made sure to write their software to ignore the misfires as you will not see them show up on a Honda scanner(My opinion based on actual use of a Honda scanner HDS). This is a very deceptive practive and should be made aware to the public.
Please write your Honda customer service and attorney general ASAP so that we can all benefit before it's too late.
You may also write me with all pertinent info :
Name, e-mail, VIN #, etc. I will forward (NAMELESS) with my continual letters to HONDA. Please make note if you do not experience this issue so that I do not forward useless VIN #'s in case there was a break in programming code that Honda has not stated.
NEXT Car is a TOYOTA no question!
ALL 2004-2006 ACCORD V6 OWNERS SHOULD READ THIS CLOSELY
ALL you do NOT have a tranny problem! You have a standard case of Honda ignoring their customers to the fullest extent. I too have a 2005 Honda Accord and experience the same problem, along with a few others which I will mention later. Open loop programming is the problem. This is a major problem because you have to go deep into your wallet and aftermarket parts in order to correct the issue yourself.
2005 Accord V6 owners should imediately write to Honda customer service and your applicable Attorney general because it is my opinion that this issue will be a direct reflection on the longivity of your Accord.
I am an X mechanic with 10 years in the business and though I've been out for some time, I do know what I'm talking about.
Here goes:
COLD- Defined as coolant temperature, Vehicle has been off for roughly 3 hours, in cold regions this can be greatly reduced. The colder the outside air temperature the worse the condition and longer the duration.
PROBLEM DESCRIPTION- Lean misfire. Open loop programming is to lean (High Air/Fuel Ratio). Too little fuel being delivered to the engine at cold outside temperature in order to run properly. The colder it is outside the more fuel required to meet the demand, which is why colder regions would see this issue more.
OPEN LOOP PROGRAMMING- Preset parameters used in cold operation. Once coolant temperature reaches a set temperature the vehicle enters CLOSED LOOP PROGRAMMING in which it adjusts to reality.
DUPLICATION- This misfire can be directly identified by starting your car and driving slowly until 20mph when the car shifts into 3rd gear, ease off the throttle and slowly re-apply. You will find that the engine progressively begins to misfire until the point it quits. You can back out and find that there is a throttle position range in which the issue is found to be worse. This range is a very average driving range in which makes this issue even more severe. 3rd gear isn't a must to notice the condition but definitely brings out the worse. The car naturally shifts into 3rd at 20mph under very light acceleration anyway. Issue is contained in the TPS range and is generally not limited by speed with the exception that you are usually a little deeper in the throttle on higher paced roads.
Honda's first attempt to fix my problem- Honda has not seen anything like this, but the IDLE LEARN procedure was done incorrectly. Corrected.
RESULT- NO CHANGE
Honda's second attempt to fix my problem- Next day. Honda has had ton's of complaints about this issue and it is FUEL CONDITION related. Amazingly they also have the solution! I disagreed to every extent but allowed them the opportunity to prove me wrong. Fuel drained, replenished and trunk ruined (It's ok to drain fuel from the trunk without any precatious measures right!! A complete novel of it's own.)
RESULT- NO CHANGE
Honda's third attempt to fix my problem- Cannot duplicate
RESULT- NEW DEALER REQUIRED as current wouldn't attempt to diagnose further after they had to strip, repaint and benzene test the car just to ensure safe caustic levels of fuel were'nt still present after the 31 days they had it.
Honda's fourth attempt to fix my problem- New dealer! Test drove and collected all necessary scanner data to supply to Honda tech support (was also done at the 1st attempt above). Dealer mechanic and service writer agreed the issue was not normal and should be addressed. Before leaving I notified them that I would like to drive another new 05 V6 to prove what I though was to be a common issue and not directly related to my car only.
RESULT- New 05 V6 on the lot has the same issue as expected. I was told that they would continue to work the issue with Honda Tech support in order to bring resolve and they had 3 cars to work with so mine wasn't necessary. I took my car and awaited the results.
UPDATED RESULTS- This is a DESIGN FEATURE of your car. Yes they said FEATURE. They were still looking into other options in order to gain some clout.
UPDATED RESULTS- Dealer stated that he felt like and @#$#@ having to tell me that Honda would like to recall their statement and instead call it a DESIGN CHARACTERISTIC. Honda is not willing to persue the issue any further.
REQUEST ISSUED TO HONDA CUSTOMER SERVICE- Define the DESIGN CHARACTERISTIC OF MY CAR IN HONDA TERMS, as I have seemingly had to put the words in Honda's mouths with agreement but no admittance of failure. NO RETURN FROM HONDA
WE ALL NEED TO HELP PUSH THIS ISSUE IN ORDER FOR HONDA TO BRING US A NEW TUNING CODE FOR OUR ACCORDS.
This issue is not completely limited to OPEN loop programming as some detonation/misfire is also observed during CLOSED loop operation.
05 V6 Vehicles also exhibit a rough idle after a highway jaunt (sitting at the offramp stoplight). This would also be a programming issue.
Detonation is one of the most damaging issues an engine could experience under normal driving conditions and should be prevented at all costs. Honda has made sure to write their software to ignore the misfires as you will not see them show up on a Honda scanner(My opinion based on actual use of a Honda scanner HDS). This is a very deceptive practive and should be made aware to the public.
Please write your Honda customer service and attorney general ASAP so that we can all benefit before it's too late.
You may also write me with all pertinent info :
Name, e-mail, VIN #, etc. I will forward (NAMELESS) with my continual letters to HONDA. Please make note if you do not experience this issue so that I do not forward useless VIN #'s in case there was a break in programming code that Honda has not stated.
NEXT Car is a TOYOTA no question!