EGR Valve

[tenner14]

Princess sent me the Service Bulletin for the EGR Valve. I've never done maintenance on my car and i'm going to attempt it for the first time to get my check engine light to go off. The dealer already diagnosed it as the EGR.

These are the questions I have as i'm reading the bulletin...
What's the best way to clean EGR ports in the top of the intake manifold once you've exposed them?
In the bulletin it points to the 'gasket' and in parentheses says "(replace)".....does that mean I have to buy that part and replace it on my car?

I apologize for my novice verbiage and questions!:blush:

Thank you graciously:) I'm going to prove that blonde stereotype wrong!!

ks

[according2me]

There was a 12yr/150K mile warranty extension for emission/tuneup parts for the '96/'97 4 cyl engine models. I don't know if the V6 models were included in this "update program", have you checked???

Here's one of many databases that uses NHTSA data.

Edmunds TSB Checklist (http://www.edmunds.com/maintenance/MaintenanceServlet)

After entering the necessary info, another screen appears. Click either the RECALL or TSB link.

Good luck.

[tenner14]

thank you! I took my car to the dealer to get all recall work done but now i need to get back w/ them to make sure they did all the right things (i assumed...bad thing to do).

How do I obtain full length TSB's? Do I have to purchase them? I'm only given a brief description of each TSB on Edmonds and on the NHTSA website...but i need detail. The TSB on the EGR is TSB #090199 dated Sept 99. NHTSA # is 608022. Princess can you help me w/ this one? Or do you think that the bulletin you sent on the EGR IS this same one i just mentioned? There was no number mentioned on the PDF file.
thank you so much!
kristen

[tenner14]

oh, and they said that the EGR valve wasn't covered under the recall even though most of the emissions program was (like the O2 sensors). weird!

[Inspector1]

That's typical dealer mentality.. :censored:
The person that told you that must have drank his lunch..:drink: :drink:

EGR is a emission component .. Exhaust Gas Recirculation......

Oh Well.. Next time you're there put on knee boots and take a scoop shovel.......Hahaha...

There is a gasket that has to be replaced when reinstalling valve..

You may try doing a carbon clean on engine to remedy some of the buildup.... Seafoam is a wonderful product for DIY.....

I1
:)

[according2me]

Most of what I read indicates the EGR valve is rarely the problem. It's the ports that need to be cleaned. I'd call Honda customer service and see if a cleanup is covered by this emission update, if you can't found documentation that indicates it's covered.

When in doubt, bypass the dealership, is my motto.

How many miles on this '96???

[according2me]

Here's the verbage from the internet about Honda's extended warranty.



1995 Accord V6, Acura NSX, Acura 2.5 TL; all 1996-97 Hondas and Acuras, except for the Acura Integra Type R and the Isuzu-built Acura and Honda Passport.
Problem: Engine malfunctions cause emissions to exceed the federal norm.

Warranty coverage: In a settlement with the Environmental Protection Agency, Honda extended its emissions warranty to 14 years or 150,000 miles. The automaker has agreed to the EPA's demand that it provide a full engine check and emissions-related repairs at 50,000 to 75,000 miles and give free tune-ups at 75,000 to 150,000 miles. This means that costly engine components and exhaust system parts like catalytic converters will be replaced free of charge. It is estimated the free check-ups, repairs, and tuneups will cost Honda over $250 million. The story of the settlement was first reported on page 6 of the June 15, 1998 edition of Automotive News.
Judging by Honda's past actions in denying its responsibility for these kinds of problems, don't hesitate to complain to the EPA if you encounter a scintilla of evidence that the company won't keep its promise. Canadian Honda owners are out of luck.


Ask your dealer, they should know about this for these year models or better yet, call Honda customer service.

[princess]

I can't find a SB with that #. The way they are listed is the first 2 numbers are the year of release/year of car, then the actuall nulletin #. In looking for 96 & 90, neither have a 199. So I did an EGR search. The only things I come up withother than what I send is wiring diagrams about it. Nothing helpful for cleaning thm out.

I'm not sure if they fall under emmisions, as would be logical. They may simply fall uder fuel. That's the area they're located in a manual anyway. I'll work on getting more info.

[princess]

Service Bulletin
 2003 American Honda Motor Co., Inc. – All Rights Reserved ATB 20148-24626 (0303) 1 of 7
CUSTOMER INFORMATION: The information in this bulletin is intended for use only by skilled technicians who have the proper tools, equipment,
and training to correctly and safely maintain your vehicle. These procedures should not be attempted by “do-it-yourselfers,” and you should not assume
this bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle has the condition described. To determine whether this information applies, contact an
authorized Honda automobile dealer.
March 18, 2003
98-081
1996 Models except Passport – ALL
1997 Models except Passport – ALL
Emissions Warranty Extension
(Supersedes 98-081, dated March 9, 1999)
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and
the California Air Resources Board (CARB) have
claimed that the On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system in
the affected vehicles does not fully perform in the
manner that they believe is required. Specifically, they
believe the OBD system is not sensitive enough to
In an effort to resolve this issue, American Honda has
agreed to extend the emissions warranty on all of the
affected vehicles and to provide emissions-related
WARRANTY EXTENSION INFORMATION
American Honda is extending the emissions warranty
on all affected vehicles to 14 years or 150,000 miles,
whichever comes first. The basic terms of this
extended warranty are the same as given with the
original Federal and California emissions warranties.
Federal Emissions Warranties - The time and
mileage periods for the Emissions-related Design and
Defects Warranty and the Emissions Performance
Warranty are lengthened from 4 years or 50,000 miles
to 14 years or 150,000 miles. All other terms,
conditions, and exclusions still apply. All parts on the
Emissions Parts List are now covered for 14 years or
150,000 miles, so the 8/80 notations on certain parts
California Emissions Warranties - Thinformation applies, contact an
authorized Honda automobile dealer.
March 18, 2003
98-081
1996 Models except Passport – ALL
1997 Models except Passport – ALL
Emissions Warranty Extension
(Supersedes 98-081, dated March 9, 1999)
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and
the California Air Resources Board (CARB) have
claimed that the On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system in
the affected vehicles does not fully perform in the
manner that they believe is required. Specifically, they
believe the OBD system is not sensitive enough to
In an effort to resolve this issue, American Honda has
agreed to extend the emissions warranty on all of the
affected vehicles and to provide emissions-related
WARRANTY EXTENSION INFORMATION
American Honda is extending the emissions warranty
on all affected vehicles to 14 years or 150,000 miles,
whichever comes first. The basic terms of this
extended warranty are the same as given with the
original Federal and California emissions warranties.
Federal Emissions Warranties - The time and
mileage periods for the Emissions-related Design and
Defects Warranty and the Emissions Performance
Warranty are lengthened from 4 years or 50,000 miles
to 14 years or 150,000 miles. All other terms,
conditions, and exclusions still apply. All parts on the
Emissions Parts List are now covered for 14 years or
150,000 miles, so the 8/80 notations on certain parts
California Emissions Warranties - The time and
mileage periods for the Emissions Control Systems
Defects Warranty and the Emissions Performance
Warranty are lengthened from 4 years or 50,000 miles
to 14 years or 150,000 miles. All other terms,
conditions, and exclusions still apply. All parts on the
Emissions Parts List are now covered for 14 years or
150,000 miles, so the 7/70 notations on certain parts
• The MIL comes on and the cause is traced to an
• The vehicle requires an emissions-related repair
because it failed a mandated emissions test.
• Any emissions-related component fails.
If you cannot find the labor operation number for a
particular emissions-related repair in the chart at the
back of this service bulletin, contact your local District
Parts and Service Manager (DPSM) or call Warranty
Dealer Support at 310-783-3240.
REPAIR TIME REQUIREMENTS
According to the terms of the agreement, American
Honda and the dealer have 45 days to resolve the
customer’s claim for repair under this warranty from the
date the customer first brings in the vehicle. If you
decide to refuse a customer’s claim for repair under
this warranty because you suspect accidental damage,
tampering, or lack of proper maintenance, notify your
DPSM immediately. This will allow American Honda to
thoroughly investigate the customer’s claim within the
45-day timeline.
ADDITIONAL SERVICES
In addition to the warranty extension, the following
services are provided to owner’e time and
mileage periods for the Emissions Control Systems
Defects Warranty and the Emissions Performance
Warranty are lengthened from 4 years or 50,000 miles
to 14 years or 150,000 miles. All other terms,
conditions, and exclusions still apply. All parts on the
Emissions Parts List are now covered for 14 years or
150,000 miles, so the 7/70 notations on certain parts
• The MIL comes on and the cause is traced to an
• The vehicle requires an emissions-related repair
because it failed a mandated emissions test.
• Any emissions-related component fails.
If you cannot find the labor operation number for a
particular emissions-related repair in the chart at the
back of this service bulletin, contact your local District
Parts and Service Manager (DPSM) or call Warranty
Dealer Support at 310-783-3240.
REPAIR TIME REQUIREMENTS
According to the terms of the agreement, American
Honda and the dealer have 45 days to resolve the
customer’s claim for repair under this warranty from the
date the customer first brings in the vehicle. If you
decide to refuse a customer’s claim for repair under
this warranty because you suspect accidental damage,
tampering, or lack of proper maintenance, notify your
DPSM immediately. This will allow American Honda to
thoroughly investigate the customer’s claim within the
45-day timeline.
ADDITIONAL SERVICES
In addition to the warranty extension, the following
services are provided to owner’s of affected vehicles.
Between 50,000 miles and 75,000 miles - If an
affected vehicle comes in for service within this
mileage range, inspect the OBD system. Follow the
service manual procedure to retrieve any DTCs that
are set. Then, replace the affected part(s). This
inspection and any parts replacement are free of
charge to the owner.
Between 75,000 and 150,000 miles - At this time the
dealer should:
• Inspect the OBD system again, and replace any
parts that have caused a DTC to set.
• Replace the distributor cap, rotor, ignition wires, and
spark plugs.
• Change the oil and oil filter.
All of the above services are free of charge to the
owner. You must use Honda parts and fluids for this
service.

[princess]

2 of 7 98-081
CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION
American Honda will send a letter to all owners of
affected vehicles notifying them of the terms of the
warranty extension. This will be done immediately.
American Honda will send letters to all owners of
affected vehicles, reminding them of the 50–75,000
mile OBD check, 5 years after the release of their
models. This will begin in the latter part of 1999 for the
1995 models, etc.
American Honda will send letters to all owners of
affected vehicles, reminding them of the 75–150,000
mile service, 9 years after the release of their models.
This will begin in 2005.
WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION
The 50,000–75,000 mile OBD inspection, the 75,000–
150,000 mile OBD inspection, the 75,000–150,000
mile service, and any emissions-related repairs must
be filed on separate warranty claims. Warranty claims
that combine any of these services will be rejected.
50,000–75,000 mile OBD inspection - Use the
following information to file a warranty claim for the
inspection.
This is an inspection only; no replacement parts should
be used or listed on the claim. Any claim filed that is
outside the specified mileage range, or that shows
parts used, will be debited.
If the MIL is on, do not do the 50,000–75,000 mile OBD
inspection or file a warranty claim for it; refer to
Emissions-related repair.
Operation Number: 123508
Flat Rate Time: 0.3 hour
Failed Part: P/N 37823-DOJ-CD1
H/C 6075626
Defect Code: 811
Contention Code: K44
Template ID: 98-081A
Skill Level: Repair Technician
Center-punch a completion mark below the first
character of the engine compartment VIN.
75,000–150,000 mile OBD inspection - Use the
following information to file a warranty claim for the
inspection.
This is an inspection only; no replacement parts should
be used or listed on the claim. Any claim filed that is
outside the specified mileage range or that shows parts
used, will be debited.
If the MIL is on, do not do the 75,000–150,000 mle service, 9 years after the release of their models.
This will begin in 2005.
WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION
The 50,000–75,000 mile OBD inspection, the 75,000–
150,000 mile OBD inspection, the 75,000–150,000
mile service, and any emissions-related repairs must
be filed on separate warranty claims. Warranty claims
that combine any of these services will be rejected.
50,000–75,000 mile OBD inspection - Use the
following information to file a warranty claim for the
inspection.
This is an inspection only; no replacement parts should
be used or listed on the claim. Any claim filed that is
outside the specified mileage range, or that shows
parts used, will be debited.
If the MIL is on, do not do the 50,000–75,000 mile OBD
inspection or file a warranty claim for it; refer to
Emissions-related repair.
Operation Number: 123508
Flat Rate Time: 0.3 hour
Failed Part: P/N 37823-DOJ-CD1
H/C 6075626
Defect Code: 811
Contention Code: K44
Template ID: 98-081A
Skill Level: Repair Technician
Center-punch a completion mark below the first
character of the engine compartment VIN.
75,000–150,000 mile OBD inspection - Use the
following information to file a warranty claim for the
inspection.
This is an inspection only; no replacement parts should
be used or listed on the claim. Any claim filed that is
outside the specified mileage range or that shows parts
used, will be debited.
If the MIL is on, do not do the 75,000–150,000 mle service, 9 years after the release of their models.
This will begin in 2005.
WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION
The 50,000–75,000 mile OBD inspection, the 75,000–
150,000 mile OBD inspection, the 75,000–150,000
mile service, and any emissions-related repairs must
be filed on separate warranty claims. Warranty claims
that combine any of these services will be rejected.
50,000–75,000 mile OBD inspection - Use the
following information to file a warranty claim for the
inspection.
This is an inspection only; no replacement parts should
be used or listed on the claim. Any claim filed that is
outside the specified mileage range, or that shows
parts used, will be debited.
If the MIL is on, do not do the 50,000–75,000 mile OBD
inspection or file a warranty claim for it; refer to
Emissions-related repair.
Operation Number: 123508
Flat Rate Time: 0.3 hour
Failed Part: P/N 37823-DOJ-CD1
H/C 6075626
Defect Code: 811
Contention Code: K44
Template ID: 98-081A
Skill Level: Repair Technician
Center-punch a completion mark below the first
character of the engine compartment VIN.
75,000–150,000 mile OBD inspection - Use the
following information to file a warranty claim for the
inspection.
This is an inspection only; no replacement parts should
be used or listed on the claim. Any claim filed that is
outside the specified mileage range or that shows parts
used, will be debited.
If the MIL is on, do not do the 75,000–150,000 mile
ervice, 9 years after the release of their models.
This will begin in 2005.
WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION
The 50,000–75,000 mile OBD inspection, the 75,000–
150,000 mile OBD inspection, the 75,000–150,000
mile service, and any emissions-related repairs must
be filed on separate warranty claims. Warranty claims
that combine any of these services will be rejected.
50,000–75,000 mile OBD inspection - Use the
following information to file a warranty claim for the
inspection.
This is an inspection only; no replacement parts should
be used or listed on the claim. Any claim filed that is
outside the specified mileage range, or that shows
parts used, will be debited.
If the MIL is on, do not do the 50,000–75,000 mile OBD
inspection or file a warranty claim for it; refer to
Emissions-related repair.
Operation Number: 123508
Flat Rate Time: 0.3 hour
Failed Part: P/N 37823-DOJ-CD1
H/C 6075626
Defect Code: 811
Contention Code: K44
Template ID: 98-081A
Skill Level: Repair Technician
Center-punch a completion mark below the first
character of the engine compartment VIN.
75,000–150,000 mile OBD inspection - Use the
following information to file a warranty claim for the
inspection.
This is an inspection only; no replacement parts should
be used or listed on the claim. Any claim filed that is
outside the specified mileage range or that shows parts
used, will be debited.
If the MIL is on, do not do the 75,000–150,000 mile
OBD inspection or file a warranty claim for it; refer to
Emissions-related repair.
Operation Number: 123511
Flat Rate Time: 0.3 hour
Failed Part: P/N 37823-DOJ-CD2
H/C 6075634
Defect Code: 812
Contention Code: K47
Template ID: 98-081C
Skill Level: Repair Technician
Center-punch a completion mark below the second
character of the engine compartment VIN.
75,000–150,000 mile service - Use the following
information to file a warranty claim for the replacement
of ignition components and for the oil and filter change.
If the applicable ignition kit is not available, do not file a
template claim. Submit a regular claim listing the
individual components used.
Center-punch here.
1HGXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Center-punch here.
1HGXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
***********************
It was SB # 98-081
It DOES cover EGR clean out, but in asking my prince about it he says in your year it's more common for the EGR valve to need replacement than clean out!!:)

[tenner14]

WOW, thank you so much princess for the detailed info...and thanks inspector and accordingtome for your comments. You think if I print all this info on the recall and take it in to the dealer that they may replace the gasket on the EGR and/or clean the ports?

I'm also seeing a recall that provides for a replacement of the throttle cable. The dealer didn't agree but I found it on the registered TSB site...

Also, i'm having a problem w/ my paint on the hood. My car is black. The problem is an appearance of white scratches in vertical groups...kinda more like lines..in the center of the hood. Unfortunately the previous owner never waxed it, though it was garaged. Is there any saving my paint?:bawling:

Let me know if you ever see any recalls on the door lock actuator! dealer says it's $183 to fix. insanity!

You all are a BLESSING! Happy Holidays and MANY thanks!

kristen:)

[tenner14]

oh, btw, my '96 is at 114K miles.

[princess]

I'll post stuff I find for your car's year range as soon as the problem gets solved with the site. There's some technical difficulties that Wardsweb is working on. Sorry for the delay, but it's out of my hands!:blush:

[Axeman]

So I am "hijacking" this thread, but seemed to fit my problem as well.
Stats: 96 Honda Accord LX, 4-cyl, 140k miles
- check engine light w/EGR valve trouble code
- removed EGR valve, "cleaned" by blowing out w/air hose, hesitation at low
rpm's still an issue;
- removed #16 vac line and running fine

Question #1: I've seen in several other threads that this means the EGR "ports" need cleaned, and that the EGR valve itself is probably not the source. Are the ports in question the two channels visible when the EGR valve is removed? Seems like some other models had plugs that required removal via slide hammer, etc. I cannot see anything resembling this on this model. As well, the channels/ports did not seem all that dirty when removing the EGR valve.

Question #2: Is there a cut/dry method for determining whether it's the valve or the ports (I guess if cleaning the ports fixes the problem...)? Chilton manual indicates to test with a vac pump, but I don't have one of those handy :)

Thanks much - Darren.

[princess]

Quick Check of EGR DTCs
P0401 & P1491
If the MIL is on along with DTC P0401 (insufficient
EGR flow) or DTC P1491 (EGR system malfunction)
on a ’94–96 Accord or ’95–96 Odyssey, do these
checks:
1. From the PGM Tester freeze data display, check
the EGR VLS (exhaust gas recirculation valve lift
sensor) voltage.

For DTC P0401, if the EGR VLS reads more
than 3.0 V, clean (unclog) the EGR passages. If
it reads less, go to step 2.

For DTC P1491, if the EGR VLS reads more
than 2.0 V, replace the EGR valve. If it reads
less, go to step 2.
2. Disconnect the vacuum hose from the EGR valve,
and attach it to a vacuum gauge.
3. Backprobe the RED wire in the EGR control
solenoid valve connector, then start the engine,
and let it idle.
4. While watching the vacuum gauge, apply and
remove ground to the RED wire 10 times.
Does the gauge read 6 inches of vacuum within 1
second of grounding the RED wire?
YES – Go to step 5.
NO – Replace the EGR control solenoid valve,
and clear the DTC.
5. Remove the backprobe, and apply 6 inches of
vacuum to the EGR valve.
Does the EGR VLS reading go to 1.2 V and stay
there?
YES – Replace the EGR valve, and clear the
DTC.
NO – Do the troubleshooting for DTC P0401 or
DTC P1491 (see section 11 of the appropriate
S/M).


Here's the directions....but I can't help with the equiptment needed.

The "ports" are part of the intake manifold.

[princess]

This is for a V6, (I'm unable to find one for a L4 right now) but you should get the idea.

[nyguy]

Well, I have the same problem. Just called into the honda dealer and was quoted $300 to $500 based on the error code. This is for a 1997 Honda Accord EX with about 122k miles.

I wasnt sure about the conclusion that was reached, but was that covered by the extended emissions warranty(something along the lines that the cleaning might be, but the valve itself wasnt?).

[leecea]

I just had the EGR problem on my 2000 Ody (3.5 V6). For that engine, you remove the intake manifold and there is a hole that runs through the manifold into the area where the throttle connects. It gets completely plugged with carbon. The procedure is to use a drill bit that matches the hole size and turn it gently by hand to remove all the crap. Then a spray of throttle body cleaner for a final clean. It was amazing how much stuff came out. I also replaced the EGR valve while I was in there.

[Accordlover]

I am reviving an old thread obviously, but it's better than making a new one!

So EGR Port Cleaning IS covered says Prince? (Princess???)

Does that mean my car has to set a CEL or fail an emissions test before I can make a warranty claim? - My car is covered under this warranty.

I too, am experiencing hesitation at low RPM's, esp. take off, and many have suggested I get the EGR port cleaned. My car has no check engine light codes.

Help! Please :)

[princess]

without throwing a code, they'd probably want to officially diagnose it.

[PennHonda]

This link and pdf should help:

http://www.dhost.info/accordinfo/howto/egr.html