j/w if anyone here has an opinion on the '05 or later model Legacy GT's. I've been thinking of trading the Accord in for a 5 spd Legacy GT. The bad news is I just bought the Accord 5 months ago! I heard the '06 Accord sedans come with a manual trans now too which are just as fast as the LGT's (0-60 in 5.8-5.9 sec). Now the only question I'm trying to answer for myself is do I need AWD?

About a month after I got my accord, one of my closest friend bought a fully loaded legacy gt w/ navi. Then a couple of weeks later crashed it during a snow storm.


AWD helps you goin, but helping you stop. Now thats another story

Why not get the Accord 6 speed? The Subi is a nice car and you will love it. It handles great and the turboed 2.5 is a sweet powertrain. Tons of power.

You will get horrendous mileage compared to the Accord. I have yet to get below 28MPG in my 6MT. You will also have to use premium fuel in the Subi. The car is a a little smaller than the Accord.

I think both cars are great, but I am a Honda fan at heart. I think you should get the 6MT sedan if you really want a manual.

The Subie uses a TURBO. That means your oil is going to cook and if you want it to last for a while you'll need to do more or less 3-5K OCI w/ Mobil 1 + premium fuel...that's not worth it to me.

the ergonomics and the crappy 5spd made the car a no go for me. plus it doesnt have nav with the MT version.

True about the navi, although the specB has MT and nav. Dealer down the street from me has had a specB (actually 2 of them) on his lot for a while now and is still asking almost $37k for them. What if he goes down to $31-32k which is the price most of the specB's are going for apparently.

I forgot about the premium fuel/mileage factor so thanks for reminding me. However, how often do you guys change your oil if you don't do it every 3-5k? I know some people are fanatic about 3k oil changes with synthetic even sometimes.

Guess I'll test drive a 6MT '06 sedan but I doubt I'll get much of a deal on one.

Most people are going 8-10K with synthetic. The turbo's are oil cooled, which is a big big reason why turbo timers are very beneficial. It lets the engine run and circulate oil through the turbo in order to cool it down. However that also means that the oil is taking a huge hit in its ability to protect because it's always getting huge temp changes. If you just shut off the car after a hard drive, you just leave the oil in the turbo to simmer. That's why it's really important to use synthetic @ regular intervals on a turbo car and not so much on the Accords. I use dino so I still do 3-4k intervals (all city).

Driving around in a CLK55 I didn't realize you would be worried about mileage :thumbsup:

I think someone said the 06's have a MT Nav non SpecB model now.

I'm ignorant, dino oil = non-synthetic?

Mileage isn't a deal breaker for me, it's more like a bonus really. Having said that, I may come close to doubling my commute in the next few months if something happens but that's not a certainty right now. It'd be nice to have a car that can hit 30mpg and still get up and go (and not just get loud, heh).

Right now my '05 V6 sedan is averaging 26 mpg since I do mainly highway driving. My CLK was getting about 13 mpg in downtown Chicago but now that she can stretch her legs out here I can get about 21 mpg :thmsup:

Sidenote: I have a buddy with an X5 4.4 and he stuck 22's on them. I think his mpg is as bad as 8-9 and as good as 12 in the city! His ride looks mean though (5% tint and black 22's)!

I'm ignorant, dino oil = non-synthetic?
Yup

European V8's are just too awesome to care that much about fuel economy. The 4.4 is sweet but I'll take the 5.4's growl anyday :notworthy

True about the navi, although the specB has MT and nav. Dealer down the street from me has had a specB (actually 2 of them) on his lot for a while now and is still asking almost $37k for them. What if he goes down to $31-32k which is the price most of the specB's are going for apparently.

I forgot about the premium fuel/mileage factor so thanks for reminding me. However, how often do you guys change your oil if you don't do it every 3-5k? I know some people are fanatic about 3k oil changes with synthetic even sometimes.

Guess I'll test drive a 6MT '06 sedan but I doubt I'll get much of a deal on one.


You will get a much better deal than on that SpecB. I think you will like the 6MT Sedan.

I have test driven the Legacy GT. The turbo is not all the linear. Too much of a on and off feel to me. And its not the most comfortable car either. The door handle is very badly designed. Its sticks out so much it take out all elbow room.

My mom has a outback which is the same thing and she wants out for a TL.

www.legacygt.com

Research all your questions there. :thmsup:

I took one look at the interior of the Subie and purchased an Accord EX V6 6MT instead.....and I made the right choice!

Legacy GT is nice car if you live in a place that sees snow and cold climates. They have full time AWD, heated seats with multible settings. The turbo doesn't has a nice feel, car feels really fast. Nice turn signals on mirrors, standard fog lights. The windshield also has those brown heater bars where the wipers rest to keep the wiper blades from freezing. Legacy sticks out more, unlike the Accord which I see all the time. Although I love the customer service and realiablity of Hondas I dunno about Subies.

I think the Legacy GT is one of the best looking cars out there. The deal killer for me would be turbo lag then "instant on", premium fuel, not so hot MPG, and price.

If you can get past those items then go for it.

I think the Legacy GT is one of the best looking cars out there. The deal killer for me would be turbo lag then "instant on", premium fuel, not so hot MPG, and price.

If you can get past those items then go for it.

I agree. AWD is really nice to have in the snow. This is a Honda forum. Of course everyone is biased, but if you like your Accord, I still say look into the 6 Speed Sedan. :yes:

Of course everyone is biased, but if you like your Accord, I still say look into the 6 Speed Sedan.

You had to say that didn't you???????? Now you made me look up my payoff and it's under $7K...

Me wantum V-6 & 6 speed hmmmmmm.

Of course everyone is biased, but if you like your Accord, I still say look into the 6 Speed Sedan.

You had to say that didn't you???????? Now you made me look up my payoff and it's under $7K...

Me wantum V-6 & 6 speed hmmmmmm.

The question to ask is would be happy with more debt and a faster car.

Personally, I've seen your pictures of your car. Just keep it and wait for the new 08's to come out. They will be a better car. Than again, I didn't wait b/c I am leary about the 6speed sedan making it into the next generation lineup.

Tough decision....just don't go test drive or you will be hooked. :yes:

I just moved from an RX-7 and an Impreza to the Accord. The thing about Subarus, god love them, is that they are just too damn expensive for me now. I hated the amount of special tools that it took to work on them too. It really gets to be a bit much, plus my subie dealer near here is crap. I looked at the Honda and tought, now THAT looks easy to work on. It also pissed me off that most times I went to the speed lube, they didnt carry a subie filter. I live in St Louis, so we just dodnt get a lot of snow, so the AWD was not worth the extra fuel.

All that said, I still loved that car, and they are nice on the track and pretty unshakable. Until you hit a deer, of course.

All that said, I still loved that car, and they are nice on the track and pretty unshakable. Until you hit a deer, of course.

The only way to win against a deer is to have a Dodge 2500 4x4 with a Ranch Hand Bumper (ie. car catcher :nuts: ). Then you may have a standing chance.

Turbo is not on/off.

Please name a turbo that can come on instantly?? They have to build boost. And oil cooking??
Oil is not going to cook...lol

Turbo is not on/off.

Please name a turbo that can come on instantly?? They have to build boost. And oil cooking??
Oil is not going to cook...lol
Driving a 3000GT and you say a Turbo is not on/off? Would you like to see how "on/off" a turbo is?

Very Linear Torque Curve (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1874425278109384693&q=AMS+evo)

Oil not cooking? I can't imagine letting oil sit in a turbo that's a few hundred degrees and having it not cook :dunno: Especially since Subaru doesn't require you to run synthetic and says oil changes should come at 7500 miles :nuts:

Driving a 3000GT and you say a Turbo is not on/off? Would you like to see how "on/off" a turbo is?

Very Linear Torque Curve (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1874425278109384693&q=AMS+evo)

Oil not cooking? I can't imagine letting oil sit in a turbo that's a few hundred degrees and having it not cook :dunno:


Few Hundred Degree? Have you seen the temps of an Exhuast Manifold? They can reach way over 1000 degrees :jawdrop:

This is from our Engine computer on my family's 13L Cat diesel. Turbos can get very hot and you must let them cool before shutting them down.

Few Hundred Degree? Have you seen the temps of an Exhuast Manifold? They can reach way over 1000 degrees :jawdrop:

This is from our Engine computer on my family's 13L Cat diesel. Turbos can get very hot and you must let them cool before shutting them down.
I figured that the temps should get much hotter than a few hundred degrees but I couldn't find anything online about it so I just put down what I know :thmsup: I'm pretty sure that unless you're somehow running liquid salt in your engine...any oil will probably cook at 1000 degrees.

I agree w/ you though. Turbos shorten the life of a Gasoline Engine. The new Acura RDX's engine kinda scares me. The turbo has potential to shorten that engine's life.

Here's more proof, in case you weren't convinced by that EVO's boost gauge :thumbsdow

See that 50lb-ft jump from 2500 to 3000RPM?

For comparison, an F23A1 and K24A4 dyno from Honda - see that nice linear torque curve between 2500-4000RPM?

http://www.reaction-image.net/albums/N4TECguy/UA014_L4HP_TORQUE.sized.jpg

I agree with Ben. A turbo is not nearly as smooth as a NA engine. Turbos just don't work that way. They have to spin up and that takes time.

Diesels are especially bad.

I had a 1998 subaru legacy outback and when you would start it up it sounded like a diesel engine which i found out was piston slap. At first the dealer blew me off saying it was normal but after researching on the internet about the piston slap i printed it out brought it to the dealer and the replaced the engine block ($4000 dollars under warranty) I also had the catalytic convertors replaced under warranty because the check engine light was coming on. I remember a handful of recalls also. Love my wifes 03 explorer traded the subaru in. I would definately look into reliability on the legacy maybe it is better now.

Driving a 3000GT and you say a Turbo is not on/off? Would you like to see how "on/off" a turbo is?

Very Linear Torque Curve (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1874425278109384693&q=AMS+evo)

Oil not cooking? I can't imagine letting oil sit in a turbo that's a few hundred degrees and having it not cook :dunno: Especially since Subaru doesn't require you to run synthetic and says oil changes should come at 7500 miles :nuts:


lol That video is an Evo with a GT42R. That thing has turbo lag.

The Legacy has a small turbo. That thing sees boost at 2,000 rpm
My 3000GT sees full boost at 2,800 but no later than 3,000 rpms.

And Yes, if you drive the car hard....then you would have to let the car idle before shutting it down. Dunno about the legacys but the VR-4 the normal opertating temp for the turbo is 1,800 degrees. I've had the turbos glow red after hotlapping on the 1/4 miles track. With regular castrol GTX.
Since then I've switched to Royal Purple.

Could you get a picture of your turbo glowing red? That would be an awesome picture :yes:

lol That video is an Evo with a GT42R. That thing has turbo lag.

The Legacy has a small turbo. That thing sees boost at 2,000 rpm
My 3000GT sees full boost at 2,800 but no later than 3,000 rpms.

And Yes, if you drive the car hard....then you would have to let the car idle before shutting it down. Dunno about the legacys but the VR-4 the normal opertating temp for the turbo is 1,800 degrees. I've had the turbos glow red after hotlapping on the 1/4 miles track. With regular castrol GTX.
Since then I've switched to Royal Purple.
Well people who HAVE driven a Legacy have said that there is turbo lag...

And how does oil not cook at 1800 degrees?

Well people who HAVE driven a Legacy have said that there is turbo lag...

Never said it was non existant. Any turbo is going to have some lag. But nothing nearly as bad as that evo

And how does oil not cook at 1800 degrees?

Oil Cooler :)

Could you get a picture of your turbo glowing red? That would be an awesome picture :yes:

Not the best picture. Mitsu has turbos surronded by heatshields. But this is the only pic i have.

http://cometvr4.freeyellow.com/red9b.JPG

Never said it was non existant. Any turbo is going to have some lag. But nothing nearly as bad as that evo

True :yes:

I know you probably let your car idle either manually or using a turbo timer after a long drive. But most people who buy a Legacy, I doubt that 75% know what a turbo is, much less how it works and definitely not how to take care of it properly. So for the general public...that turbo is gonna cook the oil. I have seen a WRX with 140K though...so they're probably not gonna just blow up.

I guess I didn't factor in that some people don't know how turbos work.


cars should come with a factory turbo timer :yes:

cars should come with a factory turbo timer :yes:
Amen :thumbsup:

I guess I didn't factor in that some people don't know how turbos work.


cars should come with a factory turbo timer :yes:
no way. turbo timers are dangerous tools to maintain a turbo for people in too much of a hurry to take care of their car. how hard is it seriously to let a car idle for one minute or so before shutting it off realistically????? it's not that hard. I sure as h3ll in any situation am going to let any car I know run via a turbo timer or anything else without me in it. seriously, if you're not "late" for something, one minute isn't gonna make you late, if you're already late, then one minute isn't gonna make much difference is it???? and if you're to silly to understand the importance of cooling a turbo down, you can pay to replace it. if you buy a used turbo car, you're taking your chances and I don't reccomend that........

hurnhh? how is a turbo timer dangerous for ppl who dont know how to maintain a turbo?

I'm cunfused Stevel.....

Why is your TL sitting? That's a crime you know :biggrin:

no way. turbo timers are dangerous tools to maintain a turbo for people in too much of a hurry to take care of their car. how hard is it seriously to let a car idle for one minute or so before shutting it off realistically????? it's not that hard. I sure as h3ll in any situation am going to let any car I know run via a turbo timer or anything else without me in it. seriously, if you're not "late" for something, one minute isn't gonna make you late, if you're already late, then one minute isn't gonna make much difference is it???? and if you're to silly to understand the importance of cooling a turbo down, you can pay to replace it. if you buy a used turbo car, you're taking your chances and I don't reccomend that........

I wouldn't say dangerous. But I just got a turbo timer as a gift this year.
Me personally wouldn't spend the $100+ dollars for something I can do myself. But its helpful when for example if I'm on a date with a girl and we get to the resturant or movies and I'm sitting there in the car....She gets confused as hell. I try to explain why and she thinks I'm crazy...lol.
But I must say this Turbo timer does more than let the car ilde. It has a lot of nice features.