Oil Change

[Fiddleback]

I just bought my first Honda Accord, 2004 EX V-6 4 door. What would you recommend for oil changes for the first 15k miles. I'm planning on using synthetic after the break in period.

Thanks in Advance
Fiddleback

[princess]

I think there maybe a thread already.... look around & you'll find some discussions on oil. Please leave in the "break in" oil until the recommend time. After that it depends on your conditions, driving style & preferences.....

:)

[benjamming]

I changed the factory fill at 6800 miles. I changed to synthetic at 6800 miles. If I had it to do over, I would change the factory fill at 5000 miles.

What synthetic are you looking at using? What kind of driving do you do? Highway? City? Racing? :D

[Fiddleback]

The Accord will mainly be used for highway trips until my Sentra dies and then I will use it for my 10 miles to work.

I don't know what syenthic I'm going it use yet. Keeping the breakin oil until about 5000 miles will give my time to do some research.

Any opions are welcome.
Fiddleback

[princess]

In the maintainance thread under duralube there's a link to bobistheoilguy. That site has lots of answers to the which oil question. It has test results. For most of us it's just what our own experiences are. My prince always uses Castrol GTX in our Hondas. At work he hasn't seen a difference in how the synthetics act inside. (doesn't mean there aren't any) My Accord still has it's break in oil, after this weekend's trip it should finally be at 5K. We change oil & tranny fluid at 5K. We have more city driving than freeway. Here, most of the "freeway" driving is stop & go, so we count that as city. The guys are this site have already answered this & they are a pretty bright bunch, so read a while & I'm sure you'll find some answers!

Welcome to the board!!

[raff]

i did my first oilchange at 3500 with regular oil. i did mysecond oilchange at 7000 miles using regular oil. i did my third oilchange, at 10,500 miles switching over to mobil 1 synthetic oil 5w-30. and i use the genuine honda oil filter when i do my oilchanges. now that i use synthetic oil i will change the oil every 5000 miles.
there are going to be may different opinions on this topic and it also depends on the style you drive in and the type of motor you have. best thing to do is trust ur instinct, what do you think is right? i was just giving you what I had done and so far my engine is running smooth as day 1 with 14,000 miles on my baby since august 2003 :)

[Ex Max]

Princess,
How are you going to do the transmission oil change? Flush machine at the dealer? Drain and refill?

The shop manual just says drain and replace the fluild. The owners manual talks about a drain, refill, drive, drain, refill. Do this three times to flush the transmission.

I assumed dealers had a flush machine.

[benjamming]

Simply drain and refill will be sufficient at 60k then every 30k miles. This is what I'm going to do with my 2002. I'm not a fan of the flushing machines - especially if you have a lot of miles on the car. New transmission fluid has a lot of detergents and replacing all the fluid at once will clean the transmission too much & could dislodge some crud & clog passages.

[according2me]

60K miles seems much too long for a 6th Gen fluid drain and refill. Only 2.5 qts are replaced every time this is done. My owners manual said 60K for severe maintenance also, but knowing the issues with Hondas 6th Gen automatics, I'd recommend more frequent replacement if you intend to keep this vehicle for the long haul. Maybe the 7th Gen autos are more durable. Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya chances.

Princess...transmission fluid change @5K? Interesting. Recently, while having my transmission replaced at the Honda dealer, I spoke with the shop foreman and he also changes his tranny fluid very frequently. Maybe these Honda techs know something that Honda is not willing to divulge to their buying public?

I'll be doing mine much more frequently with the replacement transmission. I was doing 15-20K drain/refills with the original and still had bearings spewing metal shortly after 111K miles of easy interstate cruising. Use to be, with proper maintenance, you could expect 200K from a Honda drivetrain. I guess they don't make them like they use to.:(

[Inspector1]

Great post according2me !!:D!! :D!! :D!!

Very good insight on trans services..;)

I1:)

[princess]

Sorry it took so long...we got back home last night.....

We simply drain & refill the tranny at 5K intervals because nearly all of the AT's problems seem to be caused from normal wear metallics getting all clogged up in there. They don't have a sufficient filtering system. We'd planned on adding an external filter, but haven't done it yet. Since he sees the failures & the reason for them, this was his way to try to insure ours not having it. He's under there anyway for the engine oil change.....:)

It may be overkill, but I'd rather be spending a few extra dollars now & have a healthy tranny later! His "theories" have made our Hondas last along time. We've had 2 (an '82 & '87) that went over 300K, our daughter (following some of dad's advise...on the Hondas) has one at 400K ('90 civic) & one nearly there (our former '87)! They still pass smog!!

[according2me]

The late 80's/early 90's trannys were fairly bullet proof if maintained according to the user manuals. They shifted more abruptly, but they were long-lived.

I doubt the same will be said about the 98-02 models in retrospect. This very frequent fluid change is almost mandatory for the 6th Gen transmissions to last to higher mileages. It seems Honda's supplier of bearings and clutch packs has torpedoed the 6th Gen automatics. And this frequent fluid replacement still may not help these models to reach 200K with the original drivetrain intact.

I wish I had known this from the beginning. I thought at 15-20K replacement I was fairly assured of a long life, especially with the owners manual stating 60K for severe service.

This definitely put a chink in Honda's armor for me. Will probably try elsewhere next time. Having an interest in this company since the late 70's, based upon my experience with my 1st new Accord-77 hatchback, I'm sad to see these early failures become common place.

[princess]

Each generation has had some sort of problem. The earliest ones had head gaskets that weren't up to par. The timing belts in '85, the AT's in '86-'87. The oil issues (pourous blocks) in the mid 90's. To a name a few....

They aren't a perfect machine! I think it went down after they opened the plant in Ohio (mid 80's). Just my opinion.

Since we can't change the internal workings of the tranny, we opted for the frequent fluid changes. At least maybe if the contaminents are the main problem, then we may beat the odds!!

It seems like now days you have to keep your fingers crossed no matter what you buy! I just replaced a working, but 14 year old fridge to get a bigger one. I went with the same brand because of the other never giving me a problem. BUT I still feel like it has to prove itself trustworthy! Sounds so bad. You SHOULD be able to buy any new product & think it will last through it's warranty without failure. It just doesn't seem to happen anymore!

Ahhhh.....the good ol' days......:)

[benjamming]

I was under the impression that the late 02 models had the transmission problem fixed. Am I wrong here & should I change the transmission fluid this weekend? I have ~21k miles on it.

[princess]

You are right the INTERNAL malfunctions are fixed as far as Honda can tell. But since there's no filter frequent changes can't hurt!!

[jbuffethed]

one dealer told me 5000 and one 7000 or so, depending on your driving conditions. I did mine right in between

[princess]

Well, hello jbuffethed, long tome no hear! How was the trip home for the holidays?:) Are you back at kessler now?

[jbuffethed]

it was good, drove to Tampa for Christmas, now I am stationed at Minot AFB, little change in secenery. Its not bad up here. there is a lot of nothing, and I found out the state tree is the telephone pole!

[princess]

And where is Minot AFB? It's yet another one that I' haven't heard of.... is it in ND?

LOL! Sounds like places in KS & Missouri that I've seen! When I was 5 I drew a picture for my teacher of what we did on Spring break.... My picture was of grassy fields, & wonderfully done, perfect perspective power poles! That was my view from the car. We'd actually driven down Hwy 99 to Disneyland. (minor detail) The picture was hung in the school office the rest of the year. I DID understand shading, lighting & perspective already!!:D

[jbuffethed]

Its in Northern North Dakota, 60 miles south of Canada. Not to many trees, some areas are very flat. some are very hilly

[princess]

Well, thank you for your service! Sorry that you got put in an out of the way place. Do they have any interesting planes there??

[jbuffethed]

we have the B-52s and ICBMs arround the base. :bawling: I just got all4 widsom teeth out today

[princess]

Ohhh, nasty!!! My prince had his removed while in the AF too. They convinced him that they'd be prone to decay. So out they went. It was quite an ordeal because he had an extra root!

I never even got mine! I guess I wasn't "wise" enough!

Well, Mister, you need to go pop a codine & relax!

I wonder how many bases have had B-52's. They were also at Beale when I had a cousin stationed there waaaaay back when. It seems like forever since we've been to an airshow.

I thought that "tink" would be needing her first oil change this weekend, but she's only at 4425 & we'd planned to wait 'til 5K. As slow as we rack up the miles that will probably be at least another month!! Then we'll be putting in Castrol. That's what we prefer for both our Hondas. :)

[jbuffethed]

right now, just Minot and Barksdale, LA have b-52s

[Bean]

Tiiiiiiiiiiin roof...............


... rusted!



:)

[OE812]

... We'd planned on adding an external filter, but haven't done it yet. ...

Princess:

Has the Prince added the tranny filter yet? I want to add one to my 02 Accord EX Automatic but need some insight on the hydraulics of the tranny.

[princess]

Nope, he changed his mind & decided to just put new fluid in regularly. (the '03's have a filter.... on top of the tranny.)

He'd talked about it BIG time on the '02, but never found just what he wanted. Then saw the '03's have them already!

[White 03]

I haven't noticed the transmission filter as a replacement item, should the 03 owners be changing this at some interval?

[princess]

I would assume at fluid changes.... since we change so often we're doing the filters at 15K intervals.

[White 03]

I better start looking for it soon.

Thanks

[OE812]

Princess:

I am off of the tranny filter subject and onto the engine oil filter subject. I want to install a remote engine oil filter so I won't have to lift the car with a jack for accessing the filter every 3K miles. Do you know if an aftermarket auto parts store makes one for the 02 Accord EX, I-4 Vtec?

Thanks,

Jeff

[princess]

:dunno:

[Inspector1]

Princess:

I am off of the tranny filter subject and onto the engine oil filter subject. I want to install a remote engine oil filter so I won't have to lift the car with a jack for accessing the filter every 3K miles. Do you know if an aftermarket auto parts store makes one for the 02 Accord EX, I-4 Vtec?

Thanks,

Jeff

Check your local NAPA store in their PSA catalog and see what kits they have available. You may have to have lines custom made.

I1 :)

[OE812]

I'm kinda surprised no one has inquired about this before. I'll check with NAPA...

[CA05LXDriver]

So The V6 and I4 auto apparently has an ATF filter (25450-RAY-003 for v6, 25430-PLR-003 for I4). Have you been replacing that?

Sorry it took so long...we got back home last night.....

We simply drain & refill the tranny at 5K intervals because nearly all of the AT's problems seem to be caused from normal wear metallics getting all clogged up in there. They don't have a sufficient filtering system. We'd planned on adding an external filter, but haven't done it yet. Since he sees the failures & the reason for them, this was his way to try to insure ours not having it. He's under there anyway for the engine oil change.....:)

It may be overkill, but I'd rather be spending a few extra dollars now & have a healthy tranny later! His "theories" have made our Hondas last along time. We've had 2 (an '82 & '87) that went over 300K, our daughter (following some of dad's advise...on the Hondas) has one at 400K ('90 civic) & one nearly there (our former '87)! They still pass smog!!

[princess]

I didn't watch, but I've never known him replace fluid without replacing a filter, if it has one.... if he didn't there'd be very little point to the fluid change since it's to make sure the particles are out, right?

Another 1500 or so & she's due again!

[mrjtree]

I didn't watch, but I've never known him replace fluid without replacing a filter, if it has one.... if he didn't there'd be very little point to the fluid change since it's to make sure the particles are out, right?

Another 1500 or so & she's due again!

This is my first front wheel drive car. I take it one still would have to "drop the pan" to access and change the filter? If so, that would make the quick oil and tranny fluid change into an ordeal with the extra time to install a new tranny pan gasket especially if this is done every 5,000 miles. Princess, I am following your lead, so I am hoping he just changes the fluid for "X" number of miles, and then at "Y" miles does the full blown fluid replacement, pan cleaning and filter replacement.

[CA05LXDriver]

No pan to remove. The filter on the I4 appears to be above the tranny in-line, and the V6 one is inside a housing.


This is my first front wheel drive car. I take it one still would have to "drop the pan" to access and change the filter? If so, that would make the quick oil and tranny fluid change into an ordeal with the extra time to install a new tranny pan gasket especially if this is done every 5,000 miles. Princess, I am following your lead, so I am hoping he just changes the fluid for "X" number of miles, and then at "Y" miles does the full blown fluid replacement, pan cleaning and filter replacement.

[mrjtree]

No pan to remove. The filter on the I4 appears to be above the tranny in-line, and the V6 one is inside a housing.

Thanks CA05LXDriver. :thmsup:

Here I thought Honda engineers were brilliant in designing the easy access to the oil filter. Never considered the same for the Tranny filter.

[princess]

I'm going to start a thread in the maintaince area for this.....tranny "strainer" replacements.... it'll tak a bit, I have to do it different for "repair" stuff, it's in another format (not savible).

[CA05LXDriver]

I'm going to start a thread in the maintaince area for this.....tranny "strainer" replacements.... it'll tak a bit, I have to do it different for "repair" stuff, it's in another format (not savible).

Be great to get the instructions for changing the serviceable filter elements, too....those strainers are basically non-serviceable.

[princess]

Please forgive me....I opened my fingers before I did the research.... It's apparently too easy to have instructions for..... :dunno:

[psyshack]

I just did 1st oil change on the wifes new accord. 3839 miles. The break in oil was nasty!!! Looked bad, smelt bad,, felt bad!! With seeing this stuff spew from the bowls of the engine I thought it wise to do a oil flush on it. No way I was going to drain that muck and then put moble 1 in it with out a flush. So in mid maint. I went to walmart and got 5 qt. of 5-30w cheapo syn-tech oil and then over to the zone to get a moble 1 oil filter. I went ahead and screwed the new honda filter on I had and dumped the wal-mart oil in it and went out and put about 20 miles on it. Checked it and sure enough it was taking on a nice brown tint. Looking around in the garage I found a old dusty 5 qt. jug of castrol 5-20w, new and unused. Must have been bought it years ago for the ranger and never took it back. (no way 5-20w will run fulltime in a car here) Knocked the dust off and thought,,, flush again. With that in mind wife took the car to do some yard saleing. Nice stop and go idle time for the flush. She came back, I dumped the wal-mart oil, pulled filter and let it drain then flushed it with some 30w I use in the lawn mowers. Screwed it back on and put in the castrol 5-20w. I needed to go take care of some stuff and put another 30 miles on it. Dumped that oil, pulled filter. Put on a moble 1 filter and dumped moble 1 5-30w in it. Drove it afew miles and oil is crystal clear. :) I then dumped the tranny fluid and repalced it. Took 3 qts. to my suprise. Well I rocked it abit on the jack. ( had jack stands under it... just not right on them for the rock ;) ) All other fluids checked and tires rotated and pressures adjusted. It really seemed to enjoy all the attention and the moble 1 took some noise out of a already quite engine. Im going to put it on this level of service at 5k miles. I know I can push it out. But I drive it real hard from time to time and It does do daily hwy and tulsa street driving. So in a effort to keep it healthy for many years to come. It will get compulsive oil and tranny fluid changes.

As for tranny fluid drains and fills,,, can one start useing moble 1 atf syn. fluid. The bottle says nothing about atf-z1 on it. But I hear moble does supply honda with its oil and tranny fluids. Any thought or feed back on this is welcome.

psy

[benjamming]

Sounds a little obsessive with the flush. Did you do a UOA (used oil analysis)? That would tell you for sure.

I have never heard that Mobil supplies their tranny fluids. I don't know of anyone using Mobil ATF in place of Z1 fluid. Is the Mobil ATF not higher? I don't believe Mobil ATF is recommended to be used in place of Z1 fluid. You might could add some additive to make it compatible, but why?

[psyshack]

Sounds a little obsessive with the flush. Did you do a UOA (used oil analysis)? That would tell you for sure.

I have never heard that Mobil supplies their tranny fluids. I don't know of anyone using Mobil ATF in place of Z1 fluid. Is the Mobil ATF not higher? I don't believe Mobil ATF is recommended to be used in place of Z1 fluid. You might could add some additive to make it compatible, but why?

Yeah sure on a sat. afternoon in rual oklahoma I had a UOA done. Would have cost more than a oil flush. :)

I can get moble syn. atf for the same price local as honda atf in tulsa at stealer ship. And not have to fight Tulsa traffic or mail order it and pay shiping cost.

[CA05LXDriver]

Sounds a little obsessive with the flush. Did you do a UOA (used oil analysis)? That would tell you for sure.

yes, to me too. Heck, I'd be happy running psy's used oil if he saved it... I mean flush 2, 3, or 4 :lmao:

[n1accord]

Yeah sure on a sat. afternoon in rual oklahoma I had a UOA done. Would have cost more than a oil flush. :)

I can get moble syn. atf for the same price local as honda atf in tulsa at stealer ship. And not have to fight Tulsa traffic or mail order it and pay shiping cost.

Might want to check prices at http://hondaparts4you.com/ shipping is a flat $5.95

I'm inclined to think that there are additives in Honda ATF that won't be found in off-the-shelf Mobile ATF. In light of all the tranny problems, I'd have no peace of mind with anything other than Honda ATF. I buy it by the case and the local dealer knocks it down to internet prices.