a point to ponder.....

[princess]

The other day my husband was thinking (no, it wasn't painful!) You know how the throttle body gums up on some of our cars? Well, those of us with the new V6 that has the "drive by wire" system may need to pay even more attention. Lets say it gets gummed up.... wouldn't the pedal "feel" like it's doing nothing then all of sudden GO!?

He plans to clean it up with every oil change (5K) for us....in hopes of never finding out what happens.

Any thoughts???:confused:

[Pairallel]

Sorry to put my ignorance on display, but what is a "drive by wire" system?

Also, how hard is it to clean a throttle body?

:sorry: :confused:

[princess]

The drive by wire is an electronically controled throttle system. I think it's new for the V6 '03 & newer. I don't know if the Pilot or other V6's have it though.

The difficulty level is an open term. It's between the air cleaner assemby & the engine. Nearly all of repairs are simply removing nuts, bolt, screws or/and clips. A tech gets a half hour to replace a throttle body.

[Pairallel]

OK; at the risk of opening a 55-gallon drum of worms....

If the throttle body is electronically controlled (as opposed to mechanically, I assume) why would it have a problem getting gummed up?

I clearly don't have a clue what an electronically controlled throttle body really means...does any of the standard maintenance prescribe cleaning of the throttle body? (oil change, 7500 mile, 15000 mile etc)?

:confused:

[princess]

It's electronically controled linkage, so there IS still linkage.....as I understand it....

There's a bulletin for some years to have them cleaned. So the point here is what if these new ones also gum up? It's different than the push pedal down & feel the hesitation when it's gummed up. With these you could just go from push pedal & nothing to opps, there it goes! The response is so much quicker than previous generations that you could end up in the car in front of you!

Have you driven the previous generations of Accord? The '03 & '04 V6 is just plain different in the way the accelleration feels.

I just thought it was interesting......

[Inspector1]

Think of it as a remote control on ancient VCR's with wires......
Basically it's a style of rheostat wired to a servo motor that operates the throttle plate so you "do not feel any physical resistance when pushing the pedal"..other than pedal/rheostat
Mercedes has been using them for quite sometime as well as most semi trucks.. when they went to computer controlled injectors and quit using high pressure pumps the injectors were controlled by computer which had no throttle linkage...
Thanks to aerospace industry for the technology...
Just about every airplane built today uses the technology...

I1:)

[princess]

I1, Thank you! I can picture things, but I can't always think of a good explanation. I was hoping you'd pop in! So, any thoughts on the gumming issue? Honda was asking to SEE the throttle bodies of the ones having a problem. I have no idea of these are gumming up, but it seems like it could be a nightmare if it did!

[Inspector1]

It could be due to redesign on throttle body or intake.....
I would recommend fuel treatment.. something like Techron or Seafoam to fuel to help reduce the incidence of buildup.....
It may be an issue with brands of fuel and driving styles... soooo
many variables.... Or just add that to the 5k service you do now..
and see how it looks..... Heck I'm sure the wheels are turning for Prince his 5k service list keeps getting longer and longer.... ha...

I1:)

[Pairallel]

Ok; thanks, guys...I get the general idea. Now I know why I have been getting whiplash in my Accord that never occurred in my Camry V6!

When you consider this kind of aerospace-level technology, it really makes you scratch your head when you read about the squeaks and rattles. Like they had a rocket scientist design the engine, and an ape design the body fit and finish!

:rolleyes:

[Inspector1]

I think every manufacturer has issues with squeaks and rattles....
To much plastic involved... I believe Honda has one of the better fit and finish interiors of vehicles in their price level.....
The Domestics are still bringing up the rear with theirs....

I was test driving a new Pilot a little over a week ago.... It had about 75 miles on odo and after 50 miles of driving it developed a squeak from center of dash.....:scratch: Overall the fit and finish was impressive, but for me personally the seat comfort level receives a thumbs down.. If they made fore and aft adjustments on their headrest that would also be a plus.. When my wife drove she could not rest her head due to the hole in headrest.....

Honestly I have driven 90% of the vehicles sold here in US and for the money Honda,Toyota and Nissan have the best vehicles built in their price levels...

My 2 cents
I1:)

[princess]

Yeah, those 5K "oil changes" are turning into intermediate services!! Tink is nearly ready for her first! She's just a few errands away now. I think he may go ahead & take care of it this weekend. We have a few things going on over the next few batches of weekends.

I don't like the headrests in the '03 Accord. When I'm the passenger it just hits wrong & feels like my head is forward. We even tried putting it in backwards for a while. When I'm the driver it's not AS bad, but if I have a ponytail or a hair clip with teeth in it's painful!! I've never had to worry about hairstyle in transit before!! I don't have the problem in the Pilot. Ours doesn't have any dash squeaks, it did need a weld done in the front suspension & some noise taken care of at the hitch.

Maybe the plastic parts squeak & rattle because they do fit so well.... if they were farther apart they couldn't rub. If plastic touches you will get noise. Yet nothing was noisier than my dad's old Ford truck with it's metal dash! Maybe we hear so much more because the drivetrain is so much quieter. I do know some noises can just eat at you & some can become "white noise" & we're all different. :)

[Pairallel]

I agree re: overall build quality. I've had nothing but Toyotas and Hondas since I started driving, except for a 2-year mistake with a '97 Grand Caravan. That was my wake-up call!

I am just really impressed with the 7th gen Accords, when compared to both previous generations and to competing manufacturers.

Now if I could just get rid of this driver door buzzing sound....

:bawling:

[BenjiBoy650]

Personally I hate drive by wire. We have it in the 2000 ML320 and the throttle response is very weird. The pedal sticks all the time even when it was new. Probably a problem with the spring but it's annoying. It's too trippy at low gears but not responsive enough in the upper gears. Also if the throttle ever got stuck, you could never manually pull the pedal back up since there's no real linkage.

IMHO the things that aren't really beneficial really don't need to be on my car. I would accept drive by wire on a Saab (because of turbo lag, Saab programmed it to artifically open the throttle a bit more initially to cancel it out a little), but not on an Accord where regular throttle works fine or even better in some cases. Now they're even talking about brake by wire, steer by wire, etc. Ridiculous if you ask me.

Also note that some drive by wire systems are not just a servo connected to the throttle body. If I understand it correctly, BMW controls the valve timing and lift on their 745i/iL instead of using the throttle body.

[princess]

I have no idea what all the others feel like, but I can tell you there is a wonderful response difference between the "get up & went" in a V6 '02 & a V6 '03!!!

I wouldn't even be concerned about the sticking issue if other Hondas hadn't had it. I'm not stressing over it, just going to be part of our regular maintaince.:)

[BenjiBoy650]

The throttle response in the ML is very immediate. That's what makes me hate it...it's so hard to drive smoothly and so that it doesn't induce whiplash.

Also regarding brake by wire I forgot to mention that it also has a hydraulic backup system. Then what's the point? It just adds so much more weight, plus almost everybody I've heard of that's driven a car with this feature says it's impossible to bring it to a smooth stop. I don't know, as the car manufacturers advance I just might find myself buying cheaper and cheaper cars for that 'good old days' feel haha.

[princess]

You should go test drive an '03 or '04 V6 Accord & let me know how it feels to you.

I love the response!!

My neighbor is looking for a new ('03) Jag. She has a '99 & just had a new tranny put in it. One of the loaners was a brand new Jag & she wants an '03 instead. She said the newer ones look too much like Fords. I didn't know that Ford bought out the Jags until she told me. She's into cushy comfort & to impress all her old lady Bingo/church friends. She wants me to help her look, but I don't know anything about them! She knows which model & year, I told her to just start contacting the dealers. One will find her car if she'd like. I've shopped with her before & don't really want to get into it again! She's hard to please....

:sorry:

I have a buddy that left yesterday to drive cross country in her Mercedes. I sure hope it doesn't give her any trouble!! They're going all the way to FL, KY & OH. They plan to be back in 2 months. They'd oringinally planned to take their big beautiful RV.....it has everything! Then decided at the last minute not to. They'd just had a new A/C put in it & worked on a bunch of things. They can be a bit scatterbrained sometimes! This trip is being done in the middle of remodeling their home! She just decided it's time to go & they left! She took her laptop, but doesn't know how to use it online, so I'll just wait for her calls to update me. I think her car is a 540??? It has all the same bells & whistles as mine without he Nav. Mine's more comfy.....we went house shopping once & my buns were really tired of that seat by the end of our adventure! I can ride in mine to Disneyland without any whining form my backside...:)

[BenjiBoy650]

I'd die if I had a chance to test drive a new EX V6, but then you know I'm kinda only 16 and no dealership village idiot would let me even touch one lol.

Mercedes doesn't make any 540's though BMW does. Mercedes makes 230's, 240's, 320's, 430's, 500's, 55's, 600's, etc. I agree Mercedes seats suck. They're supposed to be designed with the help of back specialists and people like that, but if you ask me thats a load of :censored:

[princess]

well, i think it's 5....

just take an older friend.... or something... or see if there's one in the paper being sold by a private party....

[BenjiBoy650]

Originally posted by princess
or see if there's one in the paper being sold by a private party....

I would feel bad wasting people's time for something as trivial as this :(

[Inspector1]

There is a major Difference in Mercedes seats when you move into S-class... Not very many seats are as comfy as I would like but S-class ranks at the top IMO.. 7th Gen seats are extremely comfy to me too !!

I1:)

[BenjiBoy650]

Originally posted by Inspector1
There is a major Difference in Mercedes seats when you move into S-class... Not very many seats are as comfy as I would like but S-class ranks at the top IMO.. 7th Gen seats are extremely comfy to me too !!

I1:)

Yeah they are but then again my ML320 is far from an S-Class. In fact, it seemed even worse than the Hyundai Sonota they gave us as a loaner when it went in for service :( The seats in the '86 300E are so-so. Absolutely no lateral support! But what can ya say it's a luxury car, you're not supposed to be screeching its tires.

[04_Blue_EX]

I like the new seats, but I'm also not too fond of the headrests.

When we had a 98 Maxima SE, I purchased a set of headrests from an Infinity I30, which were adjustable, they tilted front to rear. I was able to pull the leather covers off ours and install them, so it matched perfectly.

Does anyone know if the TSX headrests are adjustable, and would they fit our seats?