Driving around the other day (stress relief driving after work...lol), I was watching the tach at one point and noticed that when I push my car fairly hard and upshift into the next gear, the engine doesn't rev down fast enough therefore when I drop it into the next higher gear the clutch slows the engine by a few hundred RPM. Since I wasn't sure if this was DBW related, I took out my mom's 2002 Sunfire 5spd and noticed it does the same thing, but to a lesser degree (although that car does seem to have a sticky gas pedal in it).

Anyhow, I just wanted to see if others out there with a 6spd could comment if their car does/doesn't do the same thing. Atleast in my mind the clutch disc's rpms and the engine's rpms should ALWAYS be matched when switching gears, and right now after watching the tach on a number of shifts I actually get it much closer on my downshifts (by blipping the throttle), than I do with my upshifts (be it slightly on the throttle as soon as the clutch is out or if I lift afterwards).

I'm posting this on V6P as well, since I'm not sure which forum would give me the most info (since a lot of people here have I4s and ATs, but atleast the first (and possibly only) reply here probably won't be "search the forums"...lol).

Thanks in advance.

Just to avoid any confusion I know about the DBW system holding the throttle for the next gear...but what I mean is it doesn't get low enough for it to hold it before I am already in the next gear, clutch out, and trying to accelerate again.

What's wrong with hestiating before letting the clutch out again?

I have to do this in our '93 if I don't want to slip the clutch.

you have to wait 1-2 seconds for it to drop and then hold. i dont think i was clear on v6p, and i misread your post..

Is this bad/hard on the clutch though? I really don't want to slow my shifts when driving (if anything I want to be able to learn to shift faster)...and I'm actually waiting on a Comptech Short Shift adapter atm (although I wanted that more for the feel rather than faster shifting). When I am just crusing I normally do let the clutch out a little slower, but when pushing the car I want to be back on the throttle asap therefore each millisecond/second I am off the throttle is lost time. I never noticed this really in my old Sunfire...but then it didn't have much power and couldn't rev very high, therefore I probably just wasn't noticing it (I'd take her out again to "test" but unfortunately she's stuck in 2nd gear waiting to go to the dump).

For the record I am not street racing...but I do enjoy pushing the car on an empty road just for the thrill of it (not to an unsafe speed or anything...but I want to get to my desired speed as fast as possible...lol).

From what I understand, it may also be because of a heavy flywheel. The heavier the flywheel, the greater the momentum, and the longer it takes to "spin slower" when the clutch is engaged. Honda uses a flywheel that is cost efficient for the Accord. Lighter and stronger flywheels can be had as a performance upgrade but are also more expensive.

really you are ok. i think honda designed it for those people who like a leisurely shift and honestly you should have a leisurely shift when driving normally.

by a leisurely shift i mean 2 seconds. '

so that would be gas, clutch, gear out, gear in, gas. taking 2 seconds. '

when not driving leisurely i think the ECU realizes this and adjust the rpms accordingly, aka when you redline it. so when i am doing 6800 rpm shifts, i do them quick and the rpms adjust accordingly.

trust me, its good for your car. or else honda wouldnt have done it.

if you feel it might be an issue (as in takes too long) take it to honda for an ecu reflash.

civic si owners have complained of sticky revs.

Sticky revs have traditionally been a sign of emissions issues - not really issues but more for improving them. The Focus does it, and my car only did it after it went in for the throttle body air bleed screw recall, which is of course an emissions thing.

My 06 6 speed has this same rev behaviour. I think it is normal.
Al

I agree it's an emission thing. My brother used to have an '03 Focus and it did that as well. Ford issued a TSB a few years ago about people complaining about the engine holding revs at shifts and their explanation was by not allowing such an abrupt throttle closing resulted in lower emissions. It's a strange feeling when you first encounter it, but it's pretty easy to adapt too once you learn it's behavior.

so just to confirm you are NOT seeing this behaviour.

rpms at 4000, clutch, rpms bleed (1 second) to 3400, stick their for 2 seconds, and then bleed to idle (1 second) if you do nothing?

instead you are seeing longer wait times during bleeding, 2-3 seconds, and NOT seeing a sticky?

so just to confirm you are NOT seeing this behaviour.

rpms at 4000, clutch, rpms bleed (1 second) to 3400, stick their for 2 seconds, and then bleed to idle (1 second) if you do nothing?

instead you are seeing longer wait times during bleeding, 2-3 seconds, and NOT seeing a sticky?

Basically what you said I should be seeing...but it seems like once I clutch it it holds the throttle at the same position where I clutched in for 0.25 to 0.5 of a second, then it begins to drop. If I keep the clutch down, in another 2 seconds it would be at 3400, then 2-3 seconds later it would continue to drop to idle. So essentially when I am letting the clutch out because I have completed the shift its only dropped about half of what it had to in order to get to 3400 using that example. I'm pretty sure its normal (esp after what people have said here)...just seems like a flaw in design imo as most people who know how to shift a MT do shift rather quickly (it takes me about 1-1.5 seconds to "complete" a shift but I know a few people who do it in about 0.5-1.0 seconds).

If Honda offered a reflash for the J30A4/5 that would remove this behaviour I'd go to the dealership today...however if it is for emissions and normal for the car, then Honda isn't going to do anything about it. I just really wanted to make sure I wasn't going to wear the clutch out or anything at like 60,000-100,000 miles because of this. Possibly too if I do wear the clutch out way down the road I'll look into getting a lighter flywheel at the same time too if it would help this "issue".

If Honda offered a reflash for the J30A4/5 that would remove this behaviour I'd go to the dealership today...however if it is for emissions and normal for the car, then Honda isn't going to do anything about it. I just really wanted to make sure I wasn't going to wear the clutch out or anything at like 60,000-100,000 miles because of this. Possibly too if I do wear the clutch out way down the road I'll look into getting a lighter flywheel at the same time too if it would help this "issue".

like i said the Si owners complained and honda offered a reflash for their "sticky revs" issue. take it in to your dealer and have them note this so that it saves you warranty hassles down the road INCASE something does happen.

I agree it's an emission thing. My brother used to have an '03 Focus and it did that as well.


My 2000 Focus 2.0L Zetec did this also. Was not to hard to adapt to, because the car had a great clutch and shifter..Unfortunatly the 2002 and later Foci had a different clutch and shifter. Drove a new 2005 and it was not the same.

I had an idea...

Since it's DBW, if it really bothers you, you could reset the ECU and then take it out for a beating to see if it gets any better.

Just a thought.