noobie from NJ - linked photos - 56K beware

[07ACC4DREXL-V6]

AH,,, THE SMELL OF A NEW CAR!!!

The car =
244 HP 3.0 Liter SOHC 24-Valve VTEC V6 (20 CTY / 29 HWY)
5 speed auto / 4 wheel disc / 4 wheel double wishbone / Royal Blue Pearl / Gray
Leather / power 8 way driver & 4 way passenger / heated / dual auto climate control / heated mirrors
AM.FM.XM 6 disc 120 watt 6 speaker / tilt-telescoping wheel / moon roof / 17 x 6.5 rims with Michelin 215/50 all season tires
Assembled in Marysville Ohio with a USA made engine and transmission

For me =
Regional Sales Manager for Independent Container Line
Since 1994 the working car fleet has included 3 Taurus and now 3 Accords...
1999 4DR DX 2.3L sold at 118K miles
2002 4DR LX 3.0L Sold at 119L miles
2007 4DR EX 3.0L has 200 miles on it after 1 day

I shopped around all the mid sized brands and Honda still came up on top
The TL ran a close second, but besides the extra money for the car it burns premium fuel
At 700 + miles per week that will cost me plenty
The Acura dealer said on the cuff, 'well you can burn mid grade' - that pretty much turned me off the whole deal
Only really bad part of this Honda buying experiance was the giant crowd last Saturday and when I asked why no HID lights they said...'buy an Acura'.. WTF????


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/wharfside/2007%20Honda%20Accord/dashMedium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/wharfside/2007%20Honda%20Accord/driversideMedium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/wharfside/2007%20Honda%20Accord/passengerrearMedium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/wharfside/2007%20Honda%20Accord/driverrearMedium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/wharfside/2007%20Honda%20Accord/driverfrontMedium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/wharfside/2007%20Honda%20Accord/driverreartireMedium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/wharfside/2007%20Honda%20Accord/engine2Medium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/wharfside/2007%20Honda%20Accord/smokinMedium.jpg

[stiller fan]

welcome aboard..... :wave:

yeah, my mother burns mid-grade in her TL too..... but, hers likes to stall.... :lmao: it started stalling on her again today..... :stupid:

[Bluek24a4]

Nice color. :) Good luck with the new car.

[Conundrum]

I'd never put 87 or 89 in a car thats made to only take 91...any savings would never be worth the damage being done to the engine.

Now as for the Accord, some people (including myself) say that the car generates around 10 more HP and about 10 more TQ when burning 91 over lower grades, due to the J30A4/5's ability to advance engine timing. Originally this was said to have come from a Honda engineer (but was written by a 3rd party review site), however a lot of us feel the car responds better and idles better on 91 (and the manual says to use 91 on the V6 6MT if the engine knocks at lower rpms).

Anyhow I don't want to throw this off topic, as there are other threads already for this topic, but I just wanted to let you know, in case you want to see if it makes a difference to you as well. It will take about 3 full tanks (don't use part fillups) for the timing to advance as well.

Welcome to the forum, and hopefully we see you around in future.

[07ACC4DREXL-V6]

burning 91 in an engine system designed for 87 will lead to complications in the emission control units down the road
when I did not pay for fuel and thought I was doing a 'good' thing by burning mid grade or even premium I learned the hard way
engine control may compensate but you are sending unburned fuel down the line and stressing the evaporative and catalyst parts
if you want to chip it and get into breathing and exaust changes that is another story
running stock with higher octane gives short lived and possibly hazardous results down the road

[EXLNavi]

burning 91 in an engine system designed for 87 will lead to complications in the emission control units down the road
when I did not pay for fuel and thought I was doing a 'good' thing by burning mid grade or even premium I learned the hard way
engine control may compensate but you are sending unburned fuel down the line and stressing the evaporative and catalyst parts
if you want to chip it and get into breathing and exaust changes that is another story
running stock with higher octane gives short lived and possibly hazardous results down the road

I know this is controversial, but the V6's are designed to run on premium. They can also run on regular and are marketed as such because Honda's target market is people who buy a car that has lower fuel cost.

By the way, welcome, fellow Garden Stater.

[BenjiBoy650]

burning 91 in an engine system designed for 87 will lead to complications in the emission control units down the road
when I did not pay for fuel and thought I was doing a 'good' thing by burning mid grade or even premium I learned the hard way
engine control may compensate but you are sending unburned fuel down the line and stressing the evaporative and catalyst parts
if you want to chip it and get into breathing and exaust changes that is another story
running stock with higher octane gives short lived and possibly hazardous results down the road
I'd like to know what exactly happened to you? There's no way the computer can simply send tons of unburned fuel into the exhaust - it would fail emissions standards

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showpost.php?p=106321&postcount=45

On the flip side, there is also literally no damage done to a car meant to run 91 that's running 87, under most conditions. You can tell when you drive - no major knocking = no damage

[stuckeyman87]

when gas prices rose high during the summer, my dad ran 87 in his 06 c6 corvette. worked fine. it just retards the timing and gives you less power.

if you encounter knocking, however, you should run premium back in the car.

[07ACC4DREXL-V6]

evaporative canister + I think one of the catalyst convertors
it was in the 1999 and that was a 2.3 L
the engine management system will allow unspent fuel to pass
I did not have to go through inspection yet as they were giving two years on cars then
I am going to go through the 2007 manual carefully and look for any reference to octane rating

Anyway I certainly would trust the knowledge of this forum over the sales department at Kay Honda - but I am still going to look over that manual carefully

[dads-car]

That sounds unlucky and bizarre.

I don't think that the fuel was your problem... Higher octane fuel is really just more controllable... The J30A5 engines, although not the latest technology, are still very good, and a whole lot better than the F series engines. Heck, I've got as low as 15MPG in our '93 for no reason whatever. Super-rich! - but no ECU code!

There must have been something up with the oxygen sensor in that car, or something else...

I also see that you list the highway MPG as 29.... And I'm sure that people have have got 35 and upwards of that with careful and clever behavior.

:wave:

[BenjiBoy650]

Do you top off? Several people had the evap canister fail on 6th gens before, so it's not unheard of. Catalytic converters go bad sometimes too...so maybe just bad luck :dunno:

There is definitely a few sentences about octane in your manual. It says you can use 86+ but that you should go higher if you hear pinging, if you are planning to drive under heavy load, etc...something along those lines.

[07ACC4DREXL-V6]

Do you top off?
what do you mean top off?? :dunno:
I live in New Jersey - paid $2.17 yesterday for unleaded regular and never have to touch the nozzle :naughty:

And how is it that my FREE FULL TANK OF GAS - was just over 14 gallons
The needle went a lot further to the top after I paid for a fill up
most station personnel just go to the first click and stop it since the CC automatically gives exact change

[EXLNavi]

most station personnel just go to the first click and stop it since the CC automatically gives exact change

You must not go to the same stations I do. Nearly all of them try to round up.

[nm747]

Has anyone had good results with aftermarket catalytic converters for a 99' accord ex 4 cyl.?

[JBrian]

The same questions come up about octane. I’ll try and answer this in laymen’s terms. I will speak of the J30 V6 variant only.

These motors have duel knock sensors embedded in each head of the motor. The roll of the knock sensor is to “listen” for the noise (Frequency) of Pre-ignition or “Spark-knock”. Pre-ignition occurs when the combustion chamber is so hot; the fuel ignites before the spark plug fires (Like a diesel engine!). The result is the rattling of the piston when both of the flame-fronts to collide! (See Ignition basics below). The higher the grade of fuel, the more resistance it has to igniting! In other words a higher octane fuel has a higher flash point (When it will ignite) than a lower octane fuel. Higher octane fuel “resists” ignition at lower temperatures, hence they are not as prone to ignite without the spark plug firing!

So what does the computer do with this information? Well, it can do a couple of things:
1) It can richen the A/F ratio to cool down the combustion chamber (Add more fuel for the same amount of air)
2) It can slow down the motor (Rpm) and pull some of the timing out. Why pull the timing out (That is igniting closer to TDC than ignite before TDC? If you fire the spark plug too soon, you will create your own Pre-ignition causing engine damage!

Modern engine computers can adjust these parameters on the fly with input from the knock sensors; very nice! So you can run what ever fuel you want and the engine computer will compensate for the octane rating and adjust the engine timing and A/F ratio to adjust for conditions. I have read that the J30 in the generation seven Accords will even increase the engine timing and A/F ratio with a higher octane fuel giving an increase in horsepower.

Ignition basics:

The spark plug is usually fired before the piston reaches TDC (Top Dead Center). Why you may ask? When the spark plug ignites the “Flame front” created by the spark plug must travel across the combustion chamber to ignite the A/F mixture. This takes time! If the engine computer waited for the piston to reach TDC before igniting the spark plug, the exhaust valve would begin to open letting the power created by the internal combustion out into the exhaust manifold! This would mean less force driving the piston down reducing power end efficiency (FE!). As engine speed increases (Rpm) the ignition of the spark plug must occur earlier and earlier before TDC because the “Flame front” travels at the same speed regardless of engine speed. In order to compensate for the increase in Rpm, the spark plug must ignite earlier before TDC!

The “Timing” of when to fire the spark plug is also driven by the shape of the combustion chamber and the location of the spark plug in the combustion chamber. A “Wedge” shaped combustion chamber with the spark plug at one end (Think most American V8 motors but not the Chrysler 5.7L “Hemi”) requires the ignition timing to occur earlier than a motor with a centrally located spark plug with the valves on either side of the spark plug (Hemi and all OHC motors that I know of).