Anyone considering a Toyota in SF, read this first

[BenjiBoy650]

Hey all, I just want to share a horror story with y'all about a dealer called City Toyota in Daly City, CA. Hopefully, after hearing this, anybody who is considering a Toyota will not even give them a second look.

Last week, one of my dad’s friends (I’ll call him “my friend” from now on for simplicity) approached us for some help in buying a Toyota Sienna. He was unsure whether he wanted a 2006 or 2007 model. At this time, I was on vacation so I was more or less unable to help, but my family took him to City Toyota and I figured they would be able to work something out. They did, agreeing on a price of $23,388 for a 06 Sienna LE7 w/ Package 1 (Silver Shadow Pearl) + $1800 for both a 7/100 warranty and alarm, 100% financed through Toyota at a rate of 0% APR as advertised. The salespersons, Cyndi and Ray, were quite friendly and helpful. Only one problem: they had no vehicle for us. No biggie, we are not in any rush so all parties agreed that the car would arrive sometime within the week and it would be picked up this weekend 1/13/07. So far so good, everybody is happy. Personally I wouldn't have signed papers when there was no car, but they really wanted it :dunno:

When I got back from my vacation, I discovered that my friend had actually signed a contract that said $23,888 - $500 above the price that was agreed upon! Doing more research, I also found that the so called $500 alarm was listed at $249 on Toyota’s website, and that the $1300 warranty was available for $776 + tax = ~$800. So at this point, we are feeling mighty pissed. The warranty we did agree to those prices, so mostly the fault is ours, but being ripped off for $500 on the vehicle price was just too much. My dad decided to call Cyndi without telling her who he was, and he found that she quoted him $23,318 on the exact same car, so we know that the price we originally agreed on was definitely doable and that they probably knew the car existed somewhere since they gave a quote on it.

Skip forward to today, when we all walk into the dealership together to fix the problem. At this point, we realize the warranty price was our fault and we agreed to it, so we weren't making a big deal about it. Ray approached us and we talked to him about the price, again he was very professional and friendly. He went to talked to his manager, some Indian guy named Rizwan. This punk wouldn’t even talk to us – so we approached him instead. We just said we wanted to talk, we were not demanding or mean. We were told to basically screw off, that it’s no big deal (since when did $500 become no big deal?) and to enjoy the car (what car??). By now, my friend sees that my dad and I are talking to the manager and he approaches him as well. My friend tells that manager hey look, we are all mature adults, lets sit down and work something out – I’m willing to give you a little bit more money if you meet me in the middle. It was agreed with a handshake that $23,588 was an acceptable price. Then it got ugly.

You could say my friend is a very trusting person. Rizwan said, ok on my word, next week when you come in I will have a car for you and I will change the contract next week to say $23,588. My dad and I jumped in on this, saying that something should be put on paper NOW instead of later. After all, last week you cheated me out of $500, why should I believe now that you are good for your word? My friend’s wife also agreed, she wants it in writing. Rizwan gets defensive saying that his word is good, etc and that how about we just cancel the contract. Ok no problem says my friend’s wife, let’s call it off – so we do and we say cancel the contract.

Rizwan demands that we give him OUR copy of the contract and walk away – why should we? Where is our proof that we both agreed to void the contract? Still he insists, give me your contract and walk away. All of us catch on at the same time – we are not willing to leave without proof of a voided contract. Finally he scribbles all over it and gives us a photocopy.

We think that he was trying to do two things: 1) Agree on $23,588 to bring us back in next week, but not put it in writing just so we would waste our time and take the car at $23,888 anyway, and 2) get our contract and give us no proof of voiding it so that we would be stuck with a legal binding signature that says we would be buying a (still unseen) car at $23,888. We want to emphasize that throughout the whole thing, Ray was very friendly and helpful, always on our side, so he is not to blame here. But we would caution that you don’t sign any papers until you see a car in front of you, don’t sign anything taking for granted that the numbers are correct, and never deal directly with the manager (let the salesman do it for you). I also urge you to strongly consider San Francisco Toyota or Putnam Toyota, both of which we have had good luck with and are vastly superior to City and Melody Toyota.

...and the story continues two days later!

So there's a point in my story where I said my dad called Cyndi at City Toyota. Cyndi today calls back, says the car is in, $23,318 no problem. Ok, but my friend can't make it here (he's in Dublin, 1 hour away) immediately. So Cyndi leaves a note for James, the other fleet manager, says $23,318, that vehicle, give it to them. We call James FIVE times in one hour to make sure, the car is there in front of him, it's the right color, right package, it hasn't been sold, it WON'T be sold before my friend gets here, etc. We are assured over and over again by James that there are no problems, the car will be here. So we tell our friend, TWO kids in tow, go ahead and make the trip over here. (You can smell where this is going)

One hour later, phone call from James: the car is SOLD. What the hell kind of circus is this?! We talk to his higher up, a certain Mr. Mo? He says, my salesman Romeo sold this car on Wednesday and took a deposit. We have a few problems with this statement. 1) On Wednesday, my friends contract was still active. You cannot sell a car that has already been sold - this is fairly obvious since they are telling us now that we can't have the car. 2) My friend WANTED to leave a deposit and was not allowed to so he signed the contract instead, thinking it's better than a deposit.

By this point my friend is already more than halfway here. So we are extremely mad at this dealer and we would recommend that NOBODY do business with them at all, regardless of what price they quote you. They quoted us the lowest price, MULTIPLE times, and all those times they could not deliver a car, they fudged the prices, and wasted everyone's time. My friend took THREE trips from Dublin, one hour each way, with two kids in tow, for nothing. Again, DON'T do business with them, the higher ups and the whole business is a scam save for maybe a couple of salespersons.

[alpha]

Sad day. At least you got them to void the contract, and are not out money ill spent.

How are they trying to get away selling a car that isn't even present? I could understand a special order, but in this case..

There are a lot of dealer horror stories, and hopefully the word gets out there that this manager is running a bad business and that no one is buying from him.

Have you thought about writing to the owner of the dealership? If that doesn't work, you could always report it to the BBB. The treatment wasn't right, it wasn't fair, and hearing about stories like this could change the dealership personnel. The owner may not agree with the practices occurring, and if that is the case, it would do service to other customers to not have to deal with this type of treatment in the future.

There was a major issues with dealerships here and minorities, and it made the news. It took exposure to change policy, but I'm not even sure if the policy of those dealerships were changed. I think one of those dealerships did change their name, so it may have changed some things about business practices.

[BenjiBoy650]

I would love to write the dealer's owner except that I have no idea where to even start to find his info. I hadn't thought about the BBB, I will look into that but then likely they will contact me for a resolution...in which case I won't have one since I am not doing any business with them.

[alpha]

Oh, just tell them that you'd rather not. At least there would be a record with the BBB.

There was a company that my parents went to get a quote for window coverings once, and they tried to back out on a written quote and charge us more money. My parents decided to cancel and contacted the BBB. They then called us and told us that they would honor the original deal, but we declined. That store went out of business, so I'm sure we're not the only customers they tried that with.

A claim to the BBB will sure hurt business, as other customers may look at any BBB claims made within a certain time frame. When they see that some were made, then they tend to go to other places.

Oh, and in terms of finding his info, you may be able to contact Toyota Corporate and ask if they would give you some info to be able to let him know the situation. Or you could also just let Toyota Corporate know and ask them to relay the info to the dealership's owner. That way, Toyota corporate knows of the situation.

In any case, good luck and happy purchasing!

[mnkyman]

damn that sucks..


my story, there a flaw in the dashboard of my car (got it with 255 miles on it), well we went to the dealer to get it fixed under warranty..just like some of the other "flaws" that were on the car (like the apolstry had a spot on it or little minor things)

anyway, this dash flaw was i guess a little more serious and the dealer didnt want to do it...the warranty representative for the dealer said, we cant do anything about it, since youve been driving it ...and this was a flaw we noticed when we bought the car, but the saleman said we could just bring it in and it would all be covered under warranty..

so, my dad got pissed...he asked for the general manager of the service area.. when the general manager found out what our problem was, he said that because we had driven it, he had no way of knowing that we had done it..

that basically ticked off my dad to a point where he told the guy that hes wrong in saying that and how dare him accuse us of being liers or something like this and so my dad just walked off

a minute later, the manager came back and apoligized for his comments and agreed to fix the flaw under warranty..even offered to give us a ride with the "service van" that only ran on weekdays, and it was a saturday :lmao:


all in all, got the problem fixed but still.....nothing will ever change

dealerships=stealerships

[Conundrum]

Besides the BBB, what about contacting Toyota of America? I read a number of posts in the past where a Honda dealer has screwed over a new customer or a car they were servicing, and once HoA was involved things got sorted out pretty quickly. Always remember that to the head offices, the possibility of bad press for the Toyota name outweighs any small dollar amount a single dealership might lose...

Still with that said, I just wanted to add that a number of years ago when the Sunfire (that became my Sunfire) was in the shop for a warranty recall, the service tech told us that the cylinder head was also cracking, and that he'd seen at least 1/3 of all the 1995s with the same issue when replacing the recalled part (which had nothing to do with the cylinder head btw). Anyhow we contacted GM Corp Canada to let them know of the problem, what the service tech said, and that we hoped they would fix the problem, as my parents have always bought GM as do most people in our family (yep..I'm the black sheep...lol). Well I know the "Big Boss" didn't write the reply himself, but he did sign it, and guess what it said in pretty plain english: We are a multinational corporation with billions of dollars world-wide, and we could care less if you are your few friends never buy from us again. We still have the letter around somewhere, although for whatever reason it hasn't stopped my dad from going GM since. Gotta love domestics don't ya?

[mwmcginn]

If you want to know who owns something there are multiple avenues, probably even more in california than here.

You could check the county website - If you know the address, you can find the owner, if they don't have the info on the web, Just call the assessors office.

Find out who owns the corp that runs the dealership, if they have a board, write a letter to each one. This info can usually be found on the secretary of states office.

[ItsaHonda]

It'll take a lot to ever get me back into a Toyota dealership after the ordeal I had with the Solara!

[stevencrosbie]

Bleh, I visited a Toyota dealer when we were looking for a hybrid for my Mom. The dealership was "ok" but not near as good as a Honda, Acura, or Hyundai dealership.

The Prius is junk....we drove it and were not impressed. You can't see out of the back of the vehicle.

[CA05LXDriver]

I helped a family member buy a new Solara SLE from City Toyota, and they were "borderline ok" on that transaction. They had the best deal I could find out of all bay area dealers, but their pressure tactics regarding extended warranties are overkill. The "closer" basically told me that the solara was a total pile of crap and that it had hundreds of little computers that were ready to fail at a moment's notice... basically that I'd be stupid NOT to buy the warranty!

Besides that, they were fine.

If I hadn't been there, they'd have sold up extra paint protection, prepaid maintenance, a long extended warranty, and maybe added another $500 somewhere.... but y'all knew about that buyer beware thing.

[BenjiBoy650]

I certainly wish I would have been there instead of saying "I wish I were there"

Toyota and BBB have been notified, I'm going to try looking for the owner now.

[namegoeshere]

.... their pressure tactics regarding extended warranties are overkill. The "closer" basically told me that the solara was a total pile of crap and that it had hundreds of little computers that were ready to fail at a moment's notice... basically that I'd be stupid NOT to buy the warranty!

Assuming no papers were signed yet, I would have told them: "Really? Wow. I'm glad you told me that before I bought this 'pile of crap.' Guess this isn't the car for me after all. Thanks for the tip." And then just walk out of there. :D

[07ACC4DREXL-V6]

no deal is done until you drive the car off the lot
I got an addtional $500 off the price of my Accord by simply telling the dealer that his contract price was broken by another dealer
when the closers get too agressive the phrase - this car must be a piece of junk and I am not buying it anymore usually shuts them up

it's too bad that car buying has to be such an unpleasant experiance
especially considering it is usually the second largest purchase you make in your lifetiime

[BenjiBoy650]

Yet more steam to blow off :headbash:

So there's a point in my story where I said my dad called Cyndi at City Toyota. Cyndi today calls back, says the car is in, $23,318 no problem. Ok, but my friend can't make it here (he's in Dublin, 1 hour away) immediately. So Cyndi leaves a note for James, the other fleet manager, says $23,318, that vehicle, give it to them. We call James FIVE times in one hour to make sure, the car is there in front of him, it's the right color, right package, it hasn't been sold, it WON'T be sold before my friend gets here, etc. We are assured over and over again by James that there are no problems, the car will be here. So we tell our friend, TWO kids in tow, go ahead and make the trip over here. (You can smell where this is going)

One hour later, phone call from James: the car is SOLD. What the hell kind of circus is this?! We talk to his higher up, a certain Mr. Mo? He says, my salesman Romeo sold this car on Wednesday and took a deposit. We have a few problems with this statement. 1) On Wednesday, my friends contract was still active. You cannot sell a car that has already been sold - this is fairly obvious since they are telling us now that we can't have the car. 2) My friend WANTED to leave a deposit and was not allowed to so he signed the contract instead, thinking it's better than a deposit.

By this point my friend is already more than halfway here. So we are extremely mad at this dealer and we would recommend that NOBODY do business with them at all, regardless of what price they quote you. They quoted us the lowest price, MULTIPLE times, and all those times they could not deliver a car, they fudged the prices, and wasted everyone's time. My friend took THREE trips from Dublin, one hour each way, with two kids in tow, for nothing. Again, DON'T do business with them.

[alpha]

I'd let Toyota and BBB know about the followup. The more trouble this dealership gets into, the better.

[CA05LXDriver]

Assuming no papers were signed yet, I would have told them: "Really? Wow. I'm glad you told me that before I bought this 'pile of crap.' Guess this isn't the car for me after all. Thanks for the tip." And then just walk out of there. :D

Believe me... we stopped the deal at lunch and called other dealers with our bottom line offer... nobody would touch it except City Toyota. They also had the exact vehicle I wanted, so that wouldn't have worked.

We still love the car... it's fantastic.

What y'all expect from a car dealer? HAHAHAHA :lmao:

Yeah, they do suck though :( :dunno:

[joerockt]

Wow, that sucks. I'm really suprised a dealer would even take the time to do a contract without the car there. I sure wouldnt. When I got my TSX, I just left a small deposit and 2 weeks later they got the one I wanted in.

[BenjiBoy650]

Wow, that sucks. I'm really suprised a dealer would even take the time to do a contract without the car there. I sure wouldnt. When I got my TSX, I just left a small deposit and 2 weeks later they got the one I wanted in.
That's what we WANTED to do, but then they said sign it or lose it. Didn't see any harm in signing it, so we did. And then they claimed they took a deposit on an already sold car 4 days later :dunno:

[stiller fan]

IMHO, if someone told me to sign something or lose the deal, i would have walked myself..... :yes:

[BenjiBoy650]

IMHO, if someone told me to sign something or lose the deal, i would have walked myself..... :yes:
And if they had the ONLY car in Northern California, the one you wanted, with 0% APR, a deal that you wouldn't be able to get for another 8 months, with 2 kids, and one failing 4th gen (that's not made up)?

[joerockt]

That's what we WANTED to do, but then they said sign it or lose it. Didn't see any harm in signing it, so we did. And then they claimed they took a deposit on an already sold car 4 days later :dunno:

We'll I would have told them thanks but no thanks. That's a bit heavy handed. Theirs no reason why any legit dealer wouldnt take a deposit.

[joerockt]

And if they had the ONLY car in Northern California, the one you wanted, with 0% APR, a deal that you wouldn't be able to get for another 8 months, with 2 kids, and one failing 4th gen (that's not made up)?

Like the Sienna is the only option out there?? Weren't you harping in another thread about the Odyssey?

[BenjiBoy650]

Like the Sienna is the only option out there?? Weren't you harping in another thread about the Odyssey?
Wasn't gonna be my car like I said? So yes that means Sienna is the only option. Odyssey = too many problems, Quest = lemons, and well that takes care of everything

[joerockt]

Wasn't gonna be my car like I said? So yes that means Sienna is the only option. Odyssey = too many problems, Quest = lemons, and well that takes care of everything

Anybody who immediately throws out the idea of a minivan should go drive the 2 most recent generations of the Odyssey. I just got back from LA in my Accord, the same trip I took last year in an 04 Ody. The Ody is a much nicer car to drive on trips, and I was carrying luggage and more passengers this time, so it would have been much more convenient. It handled just as nice, wasn't that hard to park, and had great power. I'd trade the Accord for an Odyssey in a heartbeat if I had kids.

Too many problems, but you would get one in a "heartbeat". You couldnt talk them into it? You do SO well here :lmao:

[BenjiBoy650]

Too many problems, but you would get one in a "heartbeat". You couldnt talk them into it? You do SO well here :lmao:
So again...I didn't say it was gonna be my car? My friend did not consider the Odyssey because his colleague has an '02 that went thru two trannies. Also Honda has no 0% financing, ever. I wouldn't wanna talk them into it, if their tranny broke who's to blame? :yes: Seems like you do pretty well for yourself too :notworthy

[joerockt]

So again...I didn't say it was gonna be my car? My friend did not consider the Odyssey because his colleague has an '02 that went thru two trannies. Also Honda has no 0% financing, ever. I wouldn't wanna talk them into it, if their tranny broke who's to blame? :yes: Seems like you do pretty well for yourself too :notworthy

I'm disappointed. I thought for sure you could talk anyone into anything. :thumbsdow

Anyway, so what are they going to do now?

[BenjiBoy650]

Anyway, so what are they going to do now?
Wait for next year's big end of the MY sales...and hope that 4th gen keeps ticking.

[stevencrosbie]

Try the new Hyundai Entourage or the Kia Sedona.

They are rated pretty dang good and for 25k, pretty much fully loaded.

[BenjiBoy650]

Try the new Hyundai Entourage or the Kia Sedona.

They are rated pretty dang good and for 25k, pretty much fully loaded.
I was looking at them at the auto show and dangggg they hecka expensive for being Hyundai/Kia's and their whole "we have lower prices than everyone else" thin. They're nice but I don't think my friend would want to own a Hyundai (unproven durability so far, he keeps his cars forever, even fixed his Accord when it was totalled).

[stevencrosbie]

I see. They are tons cheaper than the Honda/Toyota, but your friend has a good point.

So far, my parents love their new Sonata and the Elantra they have. The elantra has 98k on it and its never even seen the dealership as the timing belt was an easy change.

Best of luck to them. Maybe you can show it to them. :dunno:

[mwmcginn]

Is this the same place? http://consumerist.com/consumer/toyota/toyota-dealer-wont-sell-you-a-car-because-youre-in-a-bad-mood-241988.php

[BenjiBoy650]

Is this the same place? http://consumerist.com/consumer/toyota/toyota-dealer-wont-sell-you-a-car-because-youre-in-a-bad-mood-241988.php
Nope, different place. But thanks for this, the dealer is literally 10 minutes walk from where I'm typing this now, and I was going to go buy an oil filter from them but shoot I think I'm in a bad mood...

The first sentence tipped me off that this was not a very well researched article :lmao:
"Toyota enjoys their reputation for great customer service, but does that mean they should stop selling cars to cranky customers who might complain?" <-- What a joke, visit Toyota forums and you'll see all this "great customer service" at work :yes:

[bbrowncods]

damn that sucks..


my story, there a flaw in the dashboard of my car (got it with 255 miles on it), well we went to the dealer to get it fixed under warranty..just like some of the other "flaws" that were on the car (like the apolstry had a spot on it or little minor things)

anyway, this dash flaw was i guess a little more serious and the dealer didnt want to do it...the warranty representative for the dealer said, we cant do anything about it, since youve been driving it ...and this was a flaw we noticed when we bought the car, but the saleman said we could just bring it in and it would all be covered under warranty..

so, my dad got pissed...he asked for the general manager of the service area.. when the general manager found out what our problem was, he said that because we had driven it, he had no way of knowing that we had done it..

that basically ticked off my dad to a point where he told the guy that hes wrong in saying that and how dare him accuse us of being liers or something like this and so my dad just walked off

a minute later, the manager came back and apoligized for his comments and agreed to fix the flaw under warranty..

That is because they knew they screwed up... If the dealer received the car at delivery like that they should have claimed it. They probably didn't. Or it happened after delivery. In either case, they bought themselves a dash. The only way out was to sucker a customer. Most people would have not made a stink and walked away with a bad dash. This type of problem happens every day.

BBB only works if they are a member. If they are not a member there is no penalty or obligation to the BBB.

Small claims court is a wonderful tool. All you would have needed to do was say see you in court. File a $20 suit. Subpoena the parties involved, including the one who said "we'll fix it later". Judges are very nice to the common person with a legitimate gripe. Not many people go to court if they are trying to pull a fast one. The judge knows how many times you and the defendant have been involved in claims. Your one time vice his 50 times, it becomes easy to tell who is the honest one.
The fun part is they have to pay or the court garnishes his bank account, or here in VA you can have the Sheriff go in and serve a property warrant and the deputies can carry off ANYTHING (including the register) in order to satisfy the judgment. The sheriff then auctions off the property and hands over any cash to the court and the court then pays you.
In order to get a business license in VA you are made aware of the legal system. This why most businesses give in when you say "court".

Sorry for the rant!

[bbrowncods]

Hey all, I just want to share a horror story with y'all about a dealer called City Toyota in Daly City, CA. Hopefully, after hearing this, anybody who is considering a Toyota will not even give them a second look...

They did not sign a contract; probably signed a sales agreement. You can't have a contract without a VIN!
Just did the same thing here two weeks ago. Made a deal on a promise that they could do a dealer trade. They even made me give them a $500 check! They sold the car that they were going to trade and then tried to get me to wait several weeks for one to come in saying I made a deal. I said a deal on what car? I saw blank stares... Got my check and walked...

[BenjiBoy650]

When did I say there was no VIN?

[bbrowncods]

You didn't.
Only one problem: they had no vehicle for us.
Hard to have a VIN with "no vehicle". I guess I miss understood the "no vehicle" part. I assume you meant to say there was a vehicle, it was just that they didn't have it yet. There is a difference.
My bust.

[Ivanoski]

back on topic, i think that report was biased, i think BOTH sides were to blame, to be sooo bitchy that a dealership refuses to sell you a car must be a new level of bitchiness, but also the dealer should have been strait forward about not having the car they wanted. :paranoid:

[BenjiBoy650]

back on topic, i think that report was biased, i think BOTH sides were to blame, to be sooo bitchy that a dealership refuses to sell you a car must be a new level of bitchiness, but also the dealer should have been strait forward about not having the car they wanted. :paranoid:

Yeah, it's always the case. If it happens to someone else they're being bitchy. If it happens to you, you got screwed :thumbsdow

[benjamming]

I take it then that the place is still pretty much the same and your recommendation still stands?

[BenjiBoy650]

I take it then that the place is still pretty much the same and your recommendation still stands?

Pretty much...

[The Critic]

So what was the ending? Where did they end up buying the vehicle?

[BenjiBoy650]

Dublin Toyota

[desktopgold]

city Toyota is owned by south bay Honda or at least associated

[aljlin]

Actually I believe they are owned by the same guy/company or something like that.. That's what the person at the dealer said, since my mom has a camry and they asked if we had bought our camry at City Toyota. South Bay Honda isn't too bad and I have had good experiences there for the most part and it's a smaller dealership (in comparison to others.) The interesting/funny thing is, they rent Toyotas if you need to rent a car at South Bay Honda. Their rental company is Toyota rent a car... Talk about confusion when I told my friends I was in a Prius rental (warranty work.).